RetroQuest Games - New GBA Repros (uses new parts) Fire Emblem, Earthbound, DQ, Oriently Blue, more

[Tanooki]

I'm just saying, there's a lot more concern for inanimate objects than there are for people in this hobby. Unless you're talking someone else's bottom line, then suddenly it's major drama.

You got that right and it is sickening, places like NA are ground zero for that kind of ego and abuse. Its more about the cash value than the item these days and all the seven deadly sins surrounding it.


Gameguy, I know the difference with a counterfeit and a bootleg, theyre close but different and both I happily support in oldgaming stuff now. The tactics and tantrums over at NA made that super clear to me. It plays back to what Daria said Iquoted to reply off of. Its all about the money now and Id rather see the whole process that currently exists get punished as its wrecking everything. I await the implosion just like with other hobbies wrecked over the decades by greed and if dead accurate boots and counterfeits move it along great. If it looks, sounds, and plays he same, thats cool. I know its not a popular stance with some but so be it. The money aspect has stopped me almost cold buying old games due to all the bs.

[Gameguy]

Gameguy, I know the difference with a counterfeit and a bootleg, theyre close but different and both I happily support in oldgaming stuff now. The tactics and tantrums over at NA made that super clear to me. It plays back to what Daria said Iquoted to reply off of. Its all about the money now and Id rather see the whole process that currently exists get punished as its wrecking everything. I await the implosion just like with other hobbies wrecked over the decades by greed and if dead accurate boots and counterfeits move it along great. If it looks, sounds, and plays he same, thats cool. I know its not a popular stance with some but so be it. The money aspect has stopped me almost cold buying old games due to all the bs.

It's not about the money. You still don't get why people oppose it.

[Daria]

Isn't it about the money though? The usual argument I hear made about bootlegs being bad are: a. They flood the market with fakes possibly lowering the value of legitimate copies or b. someone may waste their money accidently buying a bootleg in a hypothetical situation

I'm not discounting these arguments mind you. In fact buying GBA games can be a total pain in the ass with the prevelence of bootleg carts floatig around. My problem is that these concerns, which are all about the possible loss of money, take precedence over how reproduction manufacturers are capitalizing on the free labor of others. The general line of thinking goes: These bootlegs over here are bad because they could hurt me given the right situation, but these bootlegs over here are fine because that guy doesn't technically have the legal right to his work. (Plus this game looks so damn sexy on my shelf!)

It's a rather self absorbed point of view, and it's way too common in this community (collectors as a whole, not DP specifically).

[Gameguy]

I'll agree that a part of it is about money and devaluing games, but there's more to it than that and the money aspect isn't what really bothers me personally. Your mention of B is kind of my issue but more for making it difficult to find legitimate versions than wasting money on fake ones. For me, it's about the possibility of fake games getting mixed with legit ones. For games that are available legitimately, I want to own a legit version. If I didn't care about having legit versions, I would just have the ROMs to play so I wouldn't waste space with physical carts. With your mention of GBA games you do understand the issue I have.

It's like with bootleg DVDs or burned PS1 games. Does anybody here really see any value in these at all? Plenty of people do buy these at flea markets and the like for a few bucks each, especially people who don't know how to make them themselves. But whenever I get these mixed in bundles I usually just throw these out, or give them away. I don't want garbage taking up space in my home, for DVDs or games actually available legitimately that's all that fake copies are(garbage). Only reason I would really keep a burned PS1 game around is to test if a console is modded or not(or hypothetically if it's not available to play otherwise). Yet real games and real DVDs can still be worth quite a bit if they're rare and in demand, having the ability to pirate these at any time doesn't devalue them. Collectors who want these want them to be legit so they'll be willing to pay for legit ones. With fakes floating around looking legit, it just discourages people from buying them in case it's a fake, or makes it difficult to find a legit copy to buy as there's tons of fake ones to sort through to get to the legit ones.

I'm more bothered with Tanooki's argument that the only reason a person would be bothered by fakes is because it devalues an item, and his condescending views on anyone who disagrees with him on counterfeits(or really any subject) is just irritating. If anyone is against people making fakes of rare games, they're just greedy or butthurt, throwing tantrums. Somehow he's entitled to pirate games just because he wants to play something he can't afford to buy. Supposedly all that should matter is playing the game itself, if this is true than why bother with repro games at all instead of just using a flash cart? This makes even less sense as he enjoys the benefit of playing actual carts on a console that just dumps them to play through emulation, which makes me wonder why not just go with emulating ROMs instead of using carts at all. Why bother having physical bootlegs at all? Or getting upset that people disprove of making these bootleg games? Is it about playing the games or collecting them?

[Gameguy]

My problem is that these concerns, which are all about the possible loss of money, take precedence over how reproduction manufacturers are capitalizing on the free labor of others. The general line of thinking goes: These bootlegs over here are bad because they could hurt me given the right situation, but these bootlegs over here are fine because that guy doesn't technically have the legal right to his work. (Plus this game looks so damn sexy on my shelf!)

I guess I really didn't discuss this aspect with my previous reply, I might as well do that. With these fan translations, the people doing this are mostly doing this as a hobby, they don't expect to be paid for their efforts. Most actually want to avoid being paid to avoid possible legal issues. I guess I don't really see too much of a problem that they're not paid or compensated for their efforts, most people aren't paid for their hobbies. Plus people who make these translations want their work to be shared so many people can enjoy these games that would otherwise be unavailable, otherwise why would these translations be released publically at all?

I don't mind that other people put these games on carts so they can be played on actual hardware, but it does bother me a bit that people do this to make a large profit. Manufacturing these carts in bulk isn't too expensive per unit, but charging $40+ just seems greedy when they put little effort into producing these carts. I guess they would be taking more of a risk if Nintendo decided to go after them, but I agree with you about their greed to make a quick buck like this.

[Blitzwing256]

AT CGE this year ,there was a dealer who was selling these bootlegs, a friend of mine was all excited that he got some zelda hack and the genesis version of megaman, i pointed out they were pirates and asked how much he paid... (i assumed like 10$) and he bought them for 70 and 40 respectively, I was pretty shocked. apparently that dealer made crazy money at the show selling that garbage. he had all sorts of translated games, and even bare knuckle 3...it just boggles my mind.

I've been dealing with bootlegs for decades as I collect vintage toys, and with Star Wars and semi-recently transformers, the bootlegs are becoming so close to the originals, it's really tough for someone who isn't in the know to tell the difference. where there is money to be made, there will be bootlegers, I just hate seeing that garbage get so much positive press and people flocking to them and overpaying for them. crazy times to be a collector of anything.

[zero_limit]

Aren't these all SRAM patched? If I recall correctly, there's no way you can make GBA repros without using SRAM patched ROMs. And that sucks, specially for large RPG games which had EEPROM save in the first place. Actually only a few GBA games even use SRAM saves at all.

[Tanooki]

If you don't like my condescending view towards the entire counterfeit situation, just put me on ignore. NintendoAge and their thought and wallet police tactics of the time I was on there has created that entirely, before hand I would have felt I think much differently. They've clearly shown me how money fucks things up in so many ways with old video game buying/collection and it's sick. Yeah I may be simplifying it, but it is and only is about the money. Sure there's a lot of motivations of why, but it does all tie back to the dollar and that's it. Loss of value of a legit game, someone not being paid for their derivative work translation, people buying bootlegs who may or may not know it, whatever the case. Being mad about fakes that look and function the same as an original is tying it back to the cash value, protecting the original older item because more copies are being thrown out there to devalue it and making it harder to find through all the newer versions...again a money issue. I can technically afford to buy the spendy stuff, I'm just not crazy enough to throw that away on an old game when I can find a cheap accurate to the nose copy that does the same and that's fine. I don't use flash carts anymore because I get all ADHD with the things and enjoy and finish nothing that's on it because I Jump all over the place, plus they're not made of durable stuff historically and I like stuff to last. It's about playing the games, not a wall trophy to me, but the problem is some of the stuff I do have cash wise is a wall trophy and I don't look to let those loose as I'd hate to re-buy them again at cost and finding great copies due to NA like shenanigans isn't easy unless I were to invest in a kazoo writer and some infiniteneslives.com boards. I gave up on collecting, again thanks NA, but it showed me clearly the horrible side, manners and behavior behind it and it turned me off, so it's all about the games. My collecting stops at buying and keeping it around instead of just selling it once I'm done at that time if I feel I'll come back around to it again or I do.

By the way gameguy what do you consider a big profit for games(translated) put on a cart? What I got from these GBA game releases, for the size of the lot purchased and the equipment to flash the data to the chips, there's probably $5 if that made per game. That's hardly gouging after expenses. Now if he were charging like $70 instead of $50 I'd totally agree as it's scummy and would only be undercut by others doing it too for less to drive it back down due to a lack of a monopoly like situation.

[zero_limit]

Being mad about fakes that look and function the same as an original

Not at all if it's using SRAM instead of the original EEPROM and Flash saves. GBA bootleg SRAM usually lasts like a year or two before it stops saving, since the patched save files are much more stressing to the battery.

Also, I still think $50 is too much for a "Repro" like this. A donor bootleg would cost $5 at best and an Mask ROM would be like $2. Burning/Soldering is a pretty easy job too.

Now I'm mainly talking about these GBA "repros", because I'm interested in know if they're in fact SRAM like all the bootleg carts in the market, or if they're actual reproductions using real, official donor carts.

[Daria]

I guess I really didn't discuss this aspect with my previous reply, I might as well do that. With these fan translations, the people doing this are mostly doing this as a hobby, they don't expect to be paid for their efforts. Most actually want to avoid being paid to avoid possible legal issues. I guess I don't really see too much of a problem that they're not paid or compensated for their efforts, most people aren't paid for their hobbies. Plus people who make these translations want their work to be shared so many people can enjoy these games that would otherwise be unavailable, otherwise why would these translations be released publically at all?

So you're cool telling Kitsune Sniper that because he (and his collaborators) don't want to accept money for their work on the Kid Dracula translation that it's fine for other people to sell it in their stead?

The problem isn't that they're not being paid, the problem is is that it's not okay to sell someone else's work.

[Tanooki]

Zero: I'd have to go digging and see if I have it logged still, but I think it's setup like earlier GBA games with a battery that will last as long as the battery does, so it could be that 1-2 year thing if it's a cheap chinese cell, but if there's a solid brand on it like Nintendo used, a lot lot longer. Do you have something about donor bootlegs for GBA stuff? I've never seen a chop shopped GBA bootleg before due to the size constraints in the little plastic shell. I agree $50 is a lot, not argument there, I was just thinking from a cost break down is all. And when I talked about part break downs, these are not Nintendo boards, they're new ones made overseas that get shipped intact, and you can have them or you can do it yourself with the addition of a battery, and then you need a chip writer to put the game onto it as well. Beyond that, not really sure if the cart shell itself is a donor or not.

[bb_hood]

I guess I really didn't discuss this aspect with my previous reply, I might as well do that. With these fan translations, the people doing this are mostly doing this as a hobby, they don't expect to be paid for their efforts. Most actually want to avoid being paid to avoid possible legal issues. I guess I don't really see too much of a problem that they're not paid or compensated for their efforts, most people aren't paid for their hobbies. Plus people who make these translations want their work to be shared so many people can enjoy these games that would otherwise be unavailable, otherwise why would these translations be released publically at all?

I don't mind that other people put these games on carts so they can be played on actual hardware, but it does bother me a bit that people do this to make a large profit. Manufacturing these carts in bulk isn't too expensive per unit, but charging $40+ just seems greedy when they put little effort into producing these carts. I guess they would be taking more of a risk if Nintendo decided to go after them, but I agree with you about their greed to make a quick buck like this.

Very well put. These games should be enjoyed at little to no cost, selling them at 40$+ is just a scam.
The thing that bothers me the most is when these sites make these repros to sell, then act as if they are doing the community a huge service by making these available. They have no right to sell the content AND the content can just as easily be downloaded and played on flash carts. Its taking advantage plain and simple.

The problem isn't that they're not being paid, the problem is is that it's not okay to sell someone else's work.

Yup. Agreed.

Get your limited edition bootleg crap now

This made me laugh, and thats exactly how it is.

[Kitsune Sniper]

So you're cool telling Kitsune Sniper that because he (and his collaborators) don't want to accept money for their work on the Kid Dracula translation that it's fine for other people to sell it in their stead?

The problem isn't that they're not being paid, the problem is is that it's not okay to sell someone else's work.

Actually, I could potentially send a C&D to anyone selling Kid Dracula in particular... because I commissioned the title screen artwork and logo for Kid Dracula from an artist friend who currently lives in Australia. He owns the copyright to the redrawn logo, as far as I'm concerned. And I created the NES graphic conversion of that artwork - so I own the rights to it, along with him.

Not a single person has licensed the artwork from my friend for use in box or label artwork in any commercial project. I may not own the hack, but I am the only person who has permission from the original logo artist to use the artwork. No one else does. It's not meant to be used in any other way.

But you try explaining that to those fuckwads.

[Market Man]

Derivative works of intellectual property belong expressly to the owner of the material infringed, whether that new material has been solicited or not! See Anderson vs Stallone as a fine example of this. So no, you don't own any of that. You basically did translation/graphic hacking for Konami for free. I personally would like to thank you for selflessly putting in the effort to making so many games accessible to a broader audience.

However, if anything, all you have legal claim to is a bag of stale barbecue fritos and a dog dildo crusty with dried vaseline.

Judging by the numb tingling of my crotch, it is presently asleep, but you can be sure you'll be hearing from it later! If anyone wants to punch it to get it up, go right ahead! Daddy likes that.

[nusilver]

what exactly is being sold here?

flashcarts running one rom?

are these boxed with custom manuals and such or what?

Pretty sure I've mentioned this to you at least once before since this is where I got my awesome Mother 3 repro from -- they're flashing new ROMs onto donor boards (or at least, that what they did with Mother 3, which was using a Pokemon board, I don't recall which one.)

[The_Bait]

If you don't like my condescending view towards the entire counterfeit situation

So I had to make an account just for this one. You're bashing counterfeits, in a thread in which you're promoting a counterfeit? What kind of agenda are you running here man?

[Market Man's Crotch]

Zounds, Market Man! I haven't seen so much furry fury in a thread since they canceled Road Rovers!

And remember, kids! No one can steal your paycheck when you work for free!

[Gameguy]

If you don't like my condescending view...

It's not your view on your subject, it's the way you reply back to people. You don't just state your opinion on a subject with your reasoning behind it, you insult anyone who doesn't share your view. When people don't feel the need to buy an HDTV and stick with an old CRT, you call them luddites. When people are against the general idea of counterfeit products, you call them greedy and say they're throwing tantrums. Why can't you participate in a discussion without name calling?

By the way gameguy what do you consider a big profit for games(translated) put on a cart? What I got from these GBA game releases, for the size of the lot purchased and the equipment to flash the data to the chips, there's probably $5 if that made per game. That's hardly gouging after expenses. Now if he were charging like $70 instead of $50 I'd totally agree as it's scummy and would only be undercut by others doing it too for less to drive it back down due to a lack of a monopoly like situation.

Big profit to me is anything more than around $5-$10 above what it costs to have made in materials. You know it would cost less than $5 to have these carts manufactured, it was mentioned in that other thread you posted in. These loose carts shouldn't be priced more than $10, maybe $20 if we're being generous.

So you're cool telling Kitsune Sniper that because he (and his collaborators) don't want to accept money for their work on the Kid Dracula translation that it's fine for other people to sell it in their stead?

The problem isn't that they're not being paid, the problem is is that it's not okay to sell someone else's work.

Why is it ok that these translators are helping make these games more attractive to pirate? What about the actual people responsible for making the games in the first place? I don't hear people saying "since Nintendo didn't release this game in my region, I should avoid playing it entirely." What if the developer eventually wants to release the game in another region? How will these translations affect that? Rondo of Blood eventually got a release on the PSP years later so this can happen.

Game collectors don't really care about rights holders, if there's a game they want to play they'll find a way to play it. It doesn't matter to them if it's not officially available. What if the developers eventually want to release the game legitimately? It doesn't happen often, but look at Nightmare Busters. It was dumped and made available to play online through emulators, but years later it was licensed by Super Fighter Team for an official release.

If a game isn't officially available in a region or language, I'd rather there be some way to experience it so I'm not against translators and I do greatly appreciate their hard work. With making physical cartridges of these translated games they're just something else to help people enjoy playing and appreciating these games, so I don't oppose these existing either. I'm against gouging people or profiting with these releases. Bootlegs are cheaply made and shouldn't cost that much to manufacture, charging high prices for these is like scalping. I'd rather use a flash cart to play these but flash carts can be pretty expensive.

[Tanooki]

I have no idea how to make this sound nice ok? Anyone wanting an out of date CRT in these days is a luddite, that's not an insult as it is defined as: a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology. That definitely fits someone being anti-modern TV. And yes I think people who attack counterfeits as an option are greedy and my experience is they do throw fits when that stuff shows up so I just call it as I see it. Anything that'll knock down the inflated price of an original is fine by me when it comes to long dead old games. Just because you don't like a copycat doesn't mean it's time to pull out the daggers.

$5-10 seems fair. That fits what I was told about those retroquest games as far as costs go after buying that size of shipment of parts, the shipping, then buying the equipment needed to flash the data to the games. That's why I didn't feel it was unreasonable. Yes I know in theory they could be had cheaper, like that aliexpress site where some chinese flash mother 3 games and sell them for like 1/2 that or less on there but you never can beat the source. I guess it's how much they wanted to stick him for parts. I know I wouldn't pay that much to get that junk when I could bulk order from that site for less, but whatever.

[Rickstilwell1]

Is Market Man the new Garry Shandling? lol