PS1 RGB over RCA style connectors

[Niku-Sama]

ok so I cant figure this out, PS1 outputs in RGB, I get conflicting results on if PS2?PS3 component cables work for the RGB or not.
I hooked up some junky PS2 component cables to my PS1 and my sony PVM. I get a picture but its a rolling diagonal picture and the PVM is still saying no signal.

I thought the rolling pic was the sync, so I changed the PVM from external sync to internal sync and nothing. same result. I was able to get the rolling to stop briefly but the geometry was all effed and when something changed on screen it would roll again. V and H hold have no effect.

so whats the deal?

the PVM is a 20M2MDU
the PS1 is a SCPH 5501/5500 (one US and one Japanese)

[Pikkon]

The PS1 does not support component cables,only ps2/ps3 does,also if you want rgb I would get some scart cables.

[Niku-Sama]

ugh, I know it doesnt support component I used the PS2 component cables because Y/Pr/Pb on the PS2 a/v out share the RGB pins on the PSX

I get a full color rolling picture on the PSX using the component cables, the signal is there.
I don't think its a sync issue because the PSX will still sync on green and the PVM has the ability to use an internal and external sync and the result is the same.

no scart, its able to do this, its all there, why does the picture roll and how do we get it to stop?

[Greg2600]

You cannot get component from PS1 natively, not happening. Either you have to use a SCART cable and convert to component, or build a circuit to do that.

[theclaw]

Component cables may not be used to carry SCART type RGB. Which requires at minimum 4 pins. Red, green, blue, and sync are separate.

PS1 consoles don't use sync on green anyway. Nor do PS1 games when played on a PS2. (PS2 only enables sync on green during output of 480p or greater)

One option you can try is pairing a PS1 SCART cable with an RGB-to-BNC plug adapter.
Example pictures of what they look like:
http://childrenstoy.biz/wp-content/u...ion-cables.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fmv9pefl.jpg

[Niku-Sama]

Is it composite sync then
I ran a splitter off of green and the rolling stopped but the image is still distorted.
I'm wondering if it's running 31khz rgb instead of 15

[theclaw]

Is it composite sync then
I ran a splitter off of green and the rolling stopped but the image is still distorted.
I'm wondering if it's running 31khz rgb instead of 15

PS1 sync is "composite video" (CVBS), 15khz.

But again, what you're trying to do is not possible in the first place. Component video uses 3 pins. RGB needs more than that.

[Niku-Sama]

I'm not looking to do component for the final time.
Y pr pb share the same lines as r g b on the multi out on plsystations. There for the component cable for the ps2 is using the rgb pins on the ps1. I've read that set ups with internal sync should be working this way.
Even with out the sync the pvm should be able to use its internal sync but the image rolls still.

[theclaw]

I'm not looking to do component for the final time.
Y pr pb share the same lines as r g b on the multi out on plsystations. There for the component cable for the ps2 is using the rgb pins on the ps1. I've read that set ups with internal sync should be working this way.
Even with out the sync the pvm should be able to use its internal sync but the image rolls still.

Didn't say you did. I wanted to reinforce the cables' differences.

That isn't what internal sync means. It changes how the pvm uses sync, not attempt to brute-force understand an image without any sync.

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/819...0.html?page=60

[Pikkon]

Also your component is not wired like this,that's why everyone is telling you it's not going to work.



Now you could modify the component cable to work but not a easy task.

[Niku-Sama]

I GOT IT TO FUCKING WORK!!! HELL YEA!

lemme get some pics!

EDIT:

ok so heres what I got and what I did to make it work, its a proof of concept that you can use these, the next step is to make it so you don't have to use any thing else except the component cable ALONE.

lets start off with saying that I NEVER WANTED COMPONENT OUT OF A PSX (PS1) and that component cables were being used because the pins 9, 11, and 12 are Blue, Red, and Green on the PSX which are the same as Y, Pr and Pb on the PS2(as well as being RGB on PS2 when selected in the bios). so since they share the SAME PINS a PS2 component cable IS a PSX RGB cable with out sync.

I had a feeling the whole time sync was the problem but wasn't sure until recently. The colors were in the right places and I would get a rolling picture or a seriously distorted picture if I used internal sync which in my case is sync on green (RGsB). after a lot of reading up on things I found conflicting information. apparently some PS2/PS3 component cables just work on sync on green rgb monitors with out modification, mostly reports of first party PS3 component cables, some PS2 first party but not as many. that leads me to believe that theres something that has been done to these cables to combine sync to one of the color feeds (most likely green because sony likes that) already. since the cables I have are cheepy Chinese cables they don't have that. I will try and find out if I can get my hands on a set of official component first party cables.

NOW what I did to fix it was seriously something I came up with on the toilet.

I remembered I had an "a/v adapter" its basically an a/v break out with the multi a/v port pass through so you can still use a playstation a/v cable of your choice as well as plugging a set of RCA cables in the side of the break out to run to another TV, I've seen them as guncom adapters aswell if that helps any one on this description. only thing is that guncon adapters are composite video only, no audio where as mine was stereo rca's as well as that composite out.

before I continue on I want to apologize for the crap pics, all I had was a cell phone and it was 1am (currently 2 am) with crap lighting.
I also want to say I know its a case by case basis with RGB monitors however I hope that this information will HELP some one else who wants to avoid getting cables to adapt to cables to adapt to cables (i.e. PSX scart to RCA to BNC) or has a similar situation.
my end goal is one all encompassing cable to work.

to continue...

first off heres my cheepy cable


its a cheepo chinese one I got off of the ebays a long long time ago.

and heres the "a/v adapter"



it too is a piece of crap. I thought I had a first party one but to no avail. I at first thought since it was so cheapy it probably would only have composite and left and right stereo wired up on the other end but upon opening it up all 12 pins were (crapily) wired up. my initial thought was to modify this box but I decided against it and to test it to see how this would go down.

so I hooked it up like I normally have it with out any extra cables and got this...



as you can see, rolling image. HOWEVER the colors are all in the right spot so its proof that the crappy component cable IS picking up the red green and blue signals from the aforementioned pins (ahem)
but that sucks you cant play a game that way but heres where having the "A/V adapter" breakout thingy saved me a lot of work and proved my concept. from what I read plsaystations sync on composite using scart. I now have access to that composite as well as being able to use the PS2 component cable at the same time. went and grabbed any old RCA looking cable I could find, which was a cable that went between an Atari 2600 and its switchbox and plugged it into composite and in the back of the monitor on the external sync (and setting to use ext sync) like so.



and.....












BAM!

perfectly good picture. well in person. like I said I took these with my phone.
I will try to get better pics during the day.

now whilst doing my research I found one, random ass post some where on PSX Dev, Assembler or Racket boy about giving the RGB a sync over green. I cant remember what the details were other than you jumped one pin to pin 12 on the multi out and you used a resistor. only thing is it cant find that thread any more and I thought I fav'ed it but its not on my phone or my computer or tablet that I used for research. I imagine its pin 6 to 12 but I imagine 7 to 12 could work to as well as just pulling C-Sync off the mobo/encoder chip. and I cant remember for the life of me what resistor value it was, 220ohm would probably work but it might resist too much. I know that ability is there to get it to sync with out breakouts or heavy modifications I just need to research it some more...

and frankly, I'm just gonna be honest here. when I got to any one saying "component cables wont work" I just skipped the rest of the post and didn't read it because after a while it became apparent that people didn't know what I was after

[Niku-Sama]

it is now 11:25am and I had another toilet thought

I just took one of these, took the composite and green signal and plugged it into the female ends, plugged the one male end into green and tried it.
at first I got the a rolling signal again, so I went into the tv menu and changed from external sync to internal sync, and it works again.
theres a slight color separation with green now (slight green shadows) that the composite video coming down that line is causing. i'll try and pop the system (or a system) open and tap a sync line to see if it improves tomorrow on my day off

[theclaw]

Hmm, that raises a good question.
I don't know whether mixing sync and green with only an adapter produces a 100% valid signal. Or if there's another step involved.

[Niku-Sama]

alright I am a little late getting to this, had some peeps over and a lot to do today but I am at it.

so heres whats going on. that PSX I was using in the pics is technically sold, it was a Japanese one and I don't want to risk screwing it up as I don't want to piss any friends off....and I need the money because workl effed my check up.
so I am going to try this on another system I have, the one before was a SCPH-5500. I'm going to continue with a SCPH-1001, for a few reasons i'll get to.

before I cracked it open I tried plugging in the PS2 component cable by it self, same rolling screen. I wanted to make sure that there wasn't a change to that from revision to revision, seems like something they may have started with and then took out because of costs or what haves you and since its a 1001 and the first revision I'd check it.

the reasons I am starting with this is a for a few.

#1: If I get this working and its a simple enough mod most people would want the best video and best audio they can get out of it and the SCPH-1001 would be both of that if this works.
#2: I have more SCPH-1001's than the others
#3: the particular 1001 I am going to do this to has no audio output. just a series of short high pitched chirps when ever an audio track tries to play. its already broken, and if I break it more, oh well. if I get it working then I move to a fully functional one. so basicly prototype on this guenna pig

if I get it nailed down i'll move to some of the newer revisions to get it nailed down, but in all honesty its probably not going to be that hard, it doesnt seem like theres any ICs that need to be added

the motherboard on this is labled PU-8 part number 1-658-467-22

edit:

I just did it the quick and dirty way, soldered to pin 20 on the CXA1645M encoder and ran that to pin 12.

good news is it works, bad news is not well.

screen syncs up, shows RGB in the status on the monitor. its badly color separated and green tinted. there was a surface mounted resistor showing roughly 80 ohms after the via and before a solder pad but my fine tipped solder bit(?) was broken and the one I used pulled the pad after the 80 ohm resistor off. it didn't go any where though. I tested with composite before pluggin in the rgb and composite works fine still

edit #2:

tried sync on luma to green (pin 5 to 12) and its better, not as green or separated but still not the greatest

[theclaw]

Yeah it's likely how Sony achieved that is in PS2's technical documentation. But such things aren't provided to the public.

[Niku-Sama]

well after studying the board it might have something to do with pushing too much down the green with it directly linked.
I tired linking pin 20 with composite out and it gave a similar effect, not green of course but almost like hot video. considering how there are resistors inline right after the encoder chip I probably need to add something inline between where ever I get the sync and green.

I'm digging through my crap and see if I have a variable resistor that has a broad enough range. I plan on splicing it into the line I have already and adjusting it while its on to see if it improves at all. if it does when measure the amount of resistance and get a resistor inline that's closest.
I'm also kinda wondering if green is trying to feed back into the sync going twards the encoder and if I should put a diode in.

I donno, I guess i'll find out.

crappy thing is if I need any small components like this i'll have to order it because all 3 radio shacks around here closed

edit:

I'm on to something, soldered a 220ohm resistor from pin 5 to 12 and it synced up and the colors were ok but the geometry was all funky.
I didn't have a variable so I wound up doing this...remember, broken board any way, no sound, using for "prototype"

[theclaw]

Take a PS2 component cable, and wire in one more RCA end. That should achieve the very same effect as the a/v adapter.

[Niku-Sama]

yea then it'd be a 6 lead using external sync, I know theres a way to get a good internal sync.
its really bugging me that I cant get sync over green to look good. it syncs but it either has a green shadow, the resistor value is too great and it looks good but geometry is all wacky or, in this latest case.....

I have a super clear sharp picture, no shadows or any thing.....but its all pinkish

think pinkish screen method was wiring pin 156 on the CXD8561 directly to green. apparently if you tap into pin 20 on the CXA1645M its already combined the composite video feed with the c-cync because I get the same effect when I use the Y adaptor and convert the composite video and green into the one green input. (pre post edit, reading a datasheet for the CXA1645M while typing this shows that's exactly whats happening and that's why it works as, basically, an external sync on scart)

I got it to look good with a 220 Ohm resistor but it was still shadowy and it wouldn't sync up on certain screens

I'm going to keep going on this, I'm going to try pin 10 on the CXA1645M and catch sync before it enters the encoder, maybe by then it'll have gotten some filtering on board and come put less pink

[theclaw]

I guess may as well let curiosity and the learning experience run its course. The result itself isn't the point, at best I'd expect it to be indistinguishable.

[Niku-Sama]

not too bad. not a very good pic but what can you expect for taking a pic of a crt.
First off this is not the SCPH-1001 I was working on earlier, I don't know what it was originally but the motherboard revision is PU-22 so I imagine it was a SCPH-7501, its got a replacement shell on it, a very annoyingly pink shell.

I decided to give this one a whack after I couldn't find a clean composite sync on the 1001, even after tracking it down it was either extremely pink, looked decent but had bad geometry, or had shadows of green. so while I research that one a bit more I thought I'd try this.

this one is pretty simple, its slightly dim, whites could be whiter but its one wire coming from a c-sync pad to pin 12. its really clear though, clearer than a PS2 using component. I might try pin 5 to 12 to see what happens, if I get the green shadows like I did on the 1001 or if it gives the same result I am getting now