Consoles that defy "generations"?

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

The obvious thought may be "the ColecoVision, Vectrex, 5200 etc" but it's been established, at least by many gamers, that those consoles were part of an unacknowledged "3rd generation" and that NES is really 4th gen, SNES 5th gen, PS1 6th gen, PS2 7th gen, Xbox 360 8th gen, and we are currently in the 9th gen. An alternative would be to keep the Wiki generation categories but call the Colecovision/Vectrex/5200 etc "2.5 gen".

This is not about those consoles. There are some consoles that the generation is ambiguous. Keep in mind that when I talk about generations, the ColecoVision is 3rd gen and generations from the NES forward are shifted forward one generation each (i.e. the current generation is the 9th, not 8th)

The NES has been cited as an example. I've seen a thread on another forum where someone claimed the NES was in the same generation as the 5200, ColecoVision, and Vectrex. But to me, the NES is pretty clear cut as a 4th gen console. Yes, it DID launch as the Famicom in Japan on July 15, 1983, which was only a year after the first 3rd gen consoles first launched. But the NES remained a "current" system through the end of the 1980s and lasted well into the 1990s, getting its most software in the 1988-1991 period. It competed directly against 4th gen systems such as the Master System and 7800 and actually outlasted every bit of its 4th gen competition, finally being discontinued in 1994.

The SG-1000, on the other hand, is not quite so clear cut. It came out in Japan on the same day, July 15, 1983, but was replaced on October 20, 1985 by the Sega Mark III, which is the Master System. The period it competed (1983-1985) is only the first two years of the Famicom's life and it was pretty well dead by the time the NES gained any ground on the US market. Is it 3rd gen, with the ColecoVision that it's based on, or 4th gen, with the Famicom it launched alongside? My personal opinion would be to put it with the 3rd generation. It had hardware that was similar to the ColecoVision and competed not only with the Famicom, but with the Epoch Cassette Visions, Bandai Vectrex, and Casio PV-1000. All systems that died out by the mid-1980s along with the SG-1000. I think a "proper" 4th gen system was still available new in 1987. 3rd gen only needs to make it to the video game crash. ColecoVision lasted 1982-1985. SG-1000 was 1983-1985. NES was 1983-1994 and far more powerful. The Master System, available 1985-1991, was Sega's true 4th gen system. It fought most of the battle against the NES. In fact in the USA it was Sega's initial offering against the NES.

The RDI Halcyon. This system was planned to launch in January 1985 in the USA (right in the ass crack of the video game crash). As for specs, I'm drawing a big fat WTF. It's not comparable to the NES, but it is comparable to some high-end ARCADE games from as early as 1982. It never competed against the NES - the system was DOA on arrival. In January 1985, the only video games available in the USA were used games (no doubt selling for pennies on the dollar) and a tiny trickle on Atari 2600 (a 2nd gen system!) and ColecoVision. Vectrex and Atari 5200 were canned in 1984. The video game market was 97% dead, so the Halcyon would have competed against... nothing. Still, I call it a 3rd gen system because it WAS based on laserdisc games that were in arcades at the time ColecoVision, 5200, and Vectrex were the hot new systems.

Dreamcast, on the other hand I still call 7th gen even though it competed mostly against 6th gen. 3 years passed between the last major 6th gen launch (N64) and only a year passed before the first 7th gen competitor came (PS2). But unlike the SG-1000, it was a major leap forward from the prior generation.

[celerystalker]

CD-i gets lumped in with the 16-bit era, but it had a lot of shared games with the 3DO. Realistically, you have that transitional group of consoles between 16-bit systems that weren't quite capable of competing with PS1, Saturn, and N64. The CD-i, 3DO, Jaguar/CD, PC-FX... they all wanted to be the next big thing, but were badly outclassed by those other systems, and competed more with each other, SNES, and Sega CD/32X than with Saturn, N64, and Playstation.

Virtual Boy was, like the Vetrex, just not really a direct competitor to anything else, and its short life keeps it from having meaningful context.

Most portables have had odd lifespans as well. Game Boy, Lynx, Turbo Express, and Game Gear sort of competed, but GB kept afloat with revisions and sort of competed with NGPC and Wonderswan. GBA just kinda did its own thing mostly uncontested. DS and PSP were basically a new gen of competitors in the hand held market, then 3DS and Vita. The cross-play features with PS3 were attempted on both PSP and Vita, whereas Vita alone syncs with PS4, so there's just no lining up handhelds with regular console generations.

[ave1]

Good topic- quite thought-provoking

[o.pwuaioc]

The NES has been cited as an example. I've seen a thread on another forum where someone claimed the NES was in the same generation as the 5200, ColecoVision, and Vectrex. But to me, the NES is pretty clear cut as a 4th gen console. Yes, it DID launch as the Famicom in Japan on July 15, 1983, which was only a year after the first 3rd gen consoles first launched. But the NES remained a "current" system through the end of the 1980s and lasted well into the 1990s, getting its most software in the 1988-1991 period. It competed directly against 4th gen systems such as the Master System and 7800 and actually outlasted every bit of its 4th gen competition, finally being discontinued in 1994.

Graphically, the NES easily competes with consoles released up until the PC Engine. It may not be as good as the Master System, but it competes with it. Meanwhile, it destroys the ColecoVision and 5200. So I agree with you.

So far mentioned are:

CD-i
Jaguar
PC-FX
Halcyon
SG-1000

Honestly, that's mostly it. The "crash generation" makes up a neat set of consoles, as does the post-16 bit stop gap generation (which also includes the 32X).

I'd also include Epoch's stuff. The Super Cassette Vision, for example, really felt like it belonged with the Coleco, 5200, etc, especially with that horrific controller. Same with SG-1000. The Famicom was really a leap forward, though it was released after the SCV.

[Zthun]

PC transcends generations. Does that count?

[Ogreatgames]

In a way each console defies generations due to the principle that it is new & different. It may not be in every house but someone somewhere enjoyed it enough to maintain & keep it & talk about it to this day. @WelcomeToTheNextLevel I was unaware of the Halcyon as a video game system, thanks for the update. It seemed really promising.

[evildead2099]

The Neo Geo was developed in the days of the NES and Genesis and lasted until the time of the Dreamcast and PS2.

[BlastProcessing402]

The Neo Geo was developed in the days of the NES and Genesis and lasted until the time of the Dreamcast and PS2.

It also didn't really compete directly against anything, it was its own niche market. Good choice.



In my mind, I have trouble considering Dreamcast as part of the PS2/XB/GC generation, but it's clearly not of the prior generation either. I don't expect anyone else to agree, but to me it's an inbetweener.

[evildead2099]

In my mind, I have trouble considering Dreamcast as part of the PS2/XB/GC generation, but it's clearly not of the prior generation either. I don't expect anyone else to agree, but to me it's an inbetweener.

I agree to the extent that we're comparing the Dreamcast to games that developed around the middle of the PS2, Xbox, and GC's respective lifespans. Dreamcast games played a lot like (and, many cases, better than) first generation PS2 games, with the exception of rare, jaw-dropping titles like SSX and Grand Theft Auto 3.

[Tron 2.0]

The Neo Geo was developed in the days of the NES and Genesis and lasted until the time of the Dreamcast and PS2.

The system i was thinking of as well while it didn't really compete directly it was supported up until 2004.

[TheBenenator]

Given how many enhancement chips had to be stuffed into the NES cartridges for it to keep up later, personally I consider the NES itself to be the same gen as the 5200/7800. The enhancement chips were like tiny little nonsucky CD/32Xs that customers didn't need to know or care about.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

I always thought of the Dreamcast as an in between console. It's technically part of the PS2 generation but so much of the games were ports from Playstation games, and the games still held the qualities of the older generations like the 2D fighting games and bullet hell shooters, and all the arcade ports. It was also less powerful then the other 3 consoles of the early 2000s. I love it though

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

I was just thinking of the "fake" 6th gen (3DO, Jaguar, etc) and was thinking of starting a new thread, but decided to go through my threads first to see if it had already been done. Anyway, here's my run-down of these systems:

2nd gen - Epitomized by the dominance of the Atari 2600. The main consoles launched in 1977-1979. I consider this generation to have started on September 11, 1977 with the launch of the Atari 2600. October 1979 to the video game crash was its heyday and 1984 its last year of relevance.

3rd gen - This is a transitional generation all its own, running concurrently with the 2nd generation. August 1982 to the video game crash was its heyday and 1984 its last year of relevance.

4th gen - Epitomized by the dominance of the NES. The main consoles launched in 1985-1986. I consider this generation to have started in September 1986 with the launch of the NES nationwide. October 1986 to August 23, 1991 (SMS launch to SNES launch) was this generation's heyday and 1992 its last year of relevance.

5th gen - Epitomized by the Genesis vs. SNES war. The main consoles launched in 1989-1991. I consider this generation to have started in August 1989 with the Genesis and Turbo Grafx 16 launches. August 23, 1991 to September 9, 1995 (SNES launch to PSX launch) was this generation's heyday and 1996 its last year of relevance.

6th gen - Epitomized by the PSX vs N64 war. The main consoles launched in 1995-1996. I consider this generation to have started on September 9, 1995 with the launch of the PlayStation. September 29, 1996 to October 26, 2000 (N64 launch to PS2 launch) was this generation's heyday and 2001 its last year of relevance.

7th gen - Epitomized by the PS2 vs. Xbox vs. GCN war. The main consoles launched in 2000-2001. I consider this generation to have started on October 26, 2000 with the launch of the PlayStation 2. November 18, 2001 to November 22, 2005 (Xbox launch to X360 launch) was this generation's heyday and 2007 its last year of relevance.

8th gen - Epitomized by the PS3 vs. Xbox 360 vs. Wii war. The main consoles launched in 2005-2006. I consider this generation to have started on November 22, 2005 with the launch of the Xbox 360. November 19, 2006 to November 15, 2013 (X360 launch to Xbone launch) was this generation's heyday and 2015 its last year of relevance.

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

Here's a list of those "transitional consoles" as I see them:

Fairchild Channel F - Contested 1st / 2nd gen - Launched November 1976, largely discontinued c. 1979, fully discontinued 1982

Verdict: 2nd Gen. This one launched ten months before the Atari 2600 and saw its greatest success right at the 2600's launch. Although launching along PONG-style machines, it was much more technically similar to the Atari 2600 than it was to the PONG machines or original Magnavox Odyssey. The games look and feel like clunkier versions of early Atari 2600 games, and 2 of the system's 3 years of wide availability overlapped the 2600.

RCA Studio II - Contested 1st / 2nd gen - Launched January 1977, discontinued February 1978

Verdict: 1st Gen. This one does take programmable cartridges like the 2nd gen systems. But with black and white graphics and an extremely small game library, it comes off as similar to one of the later "multi-game" PONG systems, but with games that you have to buy separately! Not to mention, the system's own built-in PONG game has graphical flaws. The system's lifespan of 13 months was split with 8 months before the 2600 launch and 5 months after the launch.

RDI Halcyon - Contested 3rd / 4th gen - Launched January 1985, discontinued... pretty much January 1985. Only a very limited number (about 20) were made.

Verdict: 3rd Gen. This one launched in the dead of the video game crash. 3rd Gen systems were available used for those that wanted them. This system's production didn't even come close to overlapping that of the NES.

Amiga CD32 - Contested 5th / 6th gen - Launched September 17, 1993, discontinued April 29, 1994

Verdict: 5th Gen. Look at the system's lifespan, 7 months right in the heart of the 5th generation. When it was discontinued, even the Sega Saturn was still over a year away.

3DO - Contested 5th / 6th gen - Launched October 4, 1993, discontinued late 1996

Verdict: 5th Gen. This one is a tough one. The graphics and sound are a big step up from SNES, and some games could pass for a below-average PlayStation title. On the other hand, this system launched halfway between the SNES and PSX, and the system was discontinued just a year after the PSX launch, meaning it spent most of its life competing against the Genesis and SNES. By the time the N64 came out and the 6th gen was complete, the system was DOA. Had the system made it to 1998, I would have called it a 6th gen. It had the power, albeit barely.

Atari Jaguar - Contested 5th / 6th gen - Launched November 23, 1993, discontinued mid 1996

Verdict: 5th Gen. This system didn't even live to see the N64's release. Atari made a pathetic attempt to compete with the PSX and Saturn near the end of this system's life, launching a raft of games between September 1995 and April 1996. In addition to the system's short life, almost all of its games looked like they could have been done on an SNES. Even Alien vs. Predator could have been done with a Super FX chip sweating bullets.

Atari Jaguar CD - Contested 5th / 6th gen - Launched September 21, 1995, discontinued within a few months

Verdict: 5th Gen. This one was CD-based and launched after the PSX and Saturn, but it was discontinued shortly, its lifespan just a blip at the beginning of those systems' lifespans. In addition, the 16 bit market was still strong during 1995. Most of all, this was just an attachment for the Jaguar, a system that is 5th gen.

Sega 32X - Contested 5th / 6th gen - Launched November 21, 1994, discontinued early 1996

Verdict: 5th Gen. This is just an expansion for the Genesis, the quintessential 5th gen console. It didn't last to see the N64's release and was woefully underpowered next to the PSX or Saturn.

Sega Saturn - Contested 5th / 6th gen - Launched May 11, 1995, discontinued May 1998

Verdict: 6th Gen. This system launched before the PlayStation and peaked very early in the generation (around the N64 launch), but did last long enough to see half of the generation. Also, it shared many multiplatform games with the PlayStation and even N64, and fewer with the Genesis / SNES.

[Edmond Dantes]

The first thing that comes to my mind is the Neo-Geo, which was made in, what, 1992? But was still active well into the Dreamcast days, so its hard to say its part of any console gen. Then again it was meant primarily as arcade hardware.

[SparTonberry]

About 1989/1990 with the last official release in 2004.

[Tanooki]

The first thing that comes to my mind is the Neo-Geo, which was made in, what, 1992? But was still active well into the Dreamcast days, so its hard to say its part of any console gen. Then again it was meant primarily as arcade hardware.

Last official game MVS/AES was Samurai Shodown 5 Special in 2004 (April/August.) Dreamcast lasted to 02 in the US and trickled into 06 in Japan. Depending where you live, and discounting aftermarket post-hardware termination releases one outlasted the other. Yet both are very tied as the after market types do tend to try and co-release some of their wares on both side by side.

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

Although it's definitely ahead of the Genesis and SNES, I'd still call the Neo Geo a 5th gen system. It couldn't do 3D graphics, and although it was a 2D powerhouse, there was a big shift to 3D around 1995 with the new 6th generation of consoles (Saturn, PS1, N64). People expected solid 3D capabilities in the 6th generation. The Neo Geo may have blown the doors off of the Genesis and SNES, but it was badly outclassed next to the 6th generation systems.

Also, the Neo Geo AES went on sale on July 1, 1991, about two months prior to the SNES. The MVS was available on August 22, 1990 in the USA (April 26 of the same year in Japan). Production of Neo Geo hardware ended in 1997. That's two years before the Genesis and SNES. 80+ percent of the games came out by the end of 1997.

The Neo Geo continued to get games from 1998-2004 for two reasons: it was an arcade machine (porting games from MVS to AES was very easy) and it had a die-hard hardcore fan base. Still, almost all the games that came out from 1998-2004 were sequels to games that came out earlier.

[AbnormalMapping]

So, the Colecovision and the 5200 are their own generation, but the Jaguar and 3DO aren't, because reasons?

C'mon.

If you're going to be consistent, a generation is the clear market leader + their competition, however pathetic. Just because the Famicom blew it's immediate competition out of the water, and revived a dead market, doesn't mean they get a special time all to themselves. Not unless you intend to throw the Sega SG-1000 and the Atari XE into the mix as well, in which case, I can't wait to see how you handle the Amstrad GX4000.

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

The ColecoVision/5200/Vectrex are their own generation, and the 3DO/Jaguar/etc weren't because:

-They were touted as their own generation in 1982-83, and the leading two consoles of the generation were successors to 2nd gen consoles. Atari 2600 -> 5200, Coleco Telstar Arcade -> ColecoVision.

Compare to the "5.5" generation, which the major console manufacturers of the time (Nintendo and Sega) didn't release a console in. The main console was 3DO, Atari also released the Jaguar but by that point Atari had abandoned the home console market, having sat out the 5th generation.

-The 3rd gen consoles sold fairly well. ColecoVision and Atari 5200 both sold over a million units, in fact the ColecoVision sold 2 million units in two years (including a million in its first 8 months alone). That's not a lot compared to the Atari 2600 which probably sold about 12 million units during that time frame. Intellivision sold 3 million in its life, probably 1 million of that was during the 3rd generation. Odyssey2 and the rest probably brought in about a million during that time frame. That's 14 million units for the 2nd gen consoles during the 3rd gen. If you include the Arcadia 2001, Vectrex, etc in addition to the ColecoVision and Atari 5200, you're probably in the 4 million neighborhood. That's a 22% market share, with the ColecoVision alone having a 11% market share.

The 3DO sold 2 million units, but it took 3 years (not 2) so it wasn't selling as quickly. But it was the only even mildly successful system of the generation. The Atari Jaguar basically sold nothing. According to this , the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive (system and software) had about 40% of its US revenue in the years 1994, 1995, and 1996. Since the Genesis had 20 million US sales, that would suggest (very roughly) that some 8 million units were sold in those years. Since that 20 million figure marks about half of the Genesis' worldwide sales, the math suggests that 16 million Genesis/MD units were sold from '94-96. At this relatively late stage of the console's cycle, hardware sales would be more limited and I would estimate that there were 13 million Genesis/MD units sold during the 3DO's life. The same source suggests that 38% of the SNES revenue was from '94-96. With 49 million worldwide sales, 38% is 18.6 million, again because of the relatively late stage I'll estimate 16 million SNES units were sold during the 3DO's life. The TurboGrafx-16 died during this period but it and the PC Engine still probably eked out another million.

So that's 30 million 5th gen console sales (a very rough estimate) during the lifespan of the 3DO/Jag. The 3DO sold 3 million units, giving it a 9% market share. The Jaguar sold a laughable 200k units, it came nowhere close to even getting a percent of the market share. According to my very rough calculations, on average as many SNES systems sold in 4-5 days as there were Jags sold in a year. The other systems sold even worse, so in total, the "5.5" gen systems had about a 10% market share.

TL;DR - the 3rd gen systems (ColecoVision, Atari 5200) had over double the market share in their time as the "5.5" generation systems.

Also, the games the systems were putting out. Stuff on the ColecoVision, 5200, and Vectrex was a hell of a lot more advanced than anything the Atari 2600 could do. Hell, some ColecoVision games could almost pass for early NES games. Even the Intellivision couldn't keep up.

The 3DO's games could be quite a bit more advanced than anything on the Genesis or SNES, but that was the only system in the "5.5" generation that could do that. Every single one of the Jaguar's games could have been done with minimal loss of quality on the SNES, some probably would have required a Super FX chip. The Jaguar also found itself outclassed by the Sega 32X, an attachment to the lowly Genesis.

Ironically, it's because of the video game crash that the ColecoVision and 5200 generation is considered its own. Had the NES launched in 1983 as it did in Japan, the 3rd gen consoles would have been blown out of the water. We saw it in Japan, the SG-1000 was largely a ColecoVision under the hood and got steamrolled by the NES (Famicom). The 3rd gen consoles, having launched just a year earlier, would probably be part of the same generation, much like the Dreamcast vs. PS2.

In the same vein, I would call the SG-1000 a 4th generation console, as it launched the same day as the 4th gen market leader (Famicom) in Japan. Maybe 3.75 gen if I'm being nitpicky, but definitely more 4th gen than 3rd as it competed against the 4th gen market leader directly.

The Atari XEGS launched in 1987, a year after the NES and Sega Master System. Definitely a 4th gen system.

The Amstrad GX4000 was sold from late 1990 to 1991 and is quite a tough nut to crack. It was discontinued before the SNES launched in Europe, but was available during the first months of the Mega Drive's life. It seems to have been more powerful than the 4th gen systems, but less than the 5th. Still, I'm calling it 5th generation, because it launched nearly alongside the Mega Drive in Europe and was a step up from its previous generation.