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Thread: P.S.I. Necessary before a disc or cartridge breaks

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) Ogreatgames's Avatar
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    Default P.S.I. Necessary before a disc or cartridge breaks

    Hey! Thanks for the help last time! I want to know the PSI (Pounds Per Square inch) necessary for a disc or a cartridge to break and what would be a safe way to conduct an experiment to do it. I am not looking to get a specialized machine to do the job at all. I think it could be done with common household items but the question still eludes me because how would you measure the accuracy in a more exact fashion? The best way I think it can be accomplished is with books (which can be weighed) with the object underneath but around breaking point what could be used to get a more accurate calculation.
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    celerystalker is a poindexter celerystalker's Avatar
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    Aside from my head exploding with more questions, there is not a consistent amount of force measurable without very specific information. Force applied directionally or on a specific area of the disc or cartridge will be magnified by leverage and opposing tension. Some discs are made of more britte material than others and some are made thicker or thinner. Furthermore, what type of label is used can have an effect on the surface tension. Pressure applied from a point carries more penetrative power than that applied evenly across the surface.

    Point is, you're best off just doing something simple to get a rough estimate, as you'll be doing a lot of pointless math and measurement to get specific answers for each item being destroyed. These things are overly complex to collect your data in a practical setting instead of a vacuum.

    So, whatever madness you're attempting, consider the practical situation the item will encounter and simulate direction, any opposing forces, the amount of surface to surface contact, and THEN apply weight in that circumstance in a measurable form such as you said, like a book.

    But, um... but... yeah.

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    Are you planning on burying your games under the ocean?
    Mario says "... if you do drugs, you go to hell before you die."

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    Has it really come to this, people?

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    Do you have a vice and a bathroom scale?
    Won't be super accurate but it'll give you an idea. Digital scale would probably work best

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogreatgames View Post
    Hey! Thanks for the help last time! I want to know the PSI (Pounds Per Square inch) necessary for a disc or a cartridge to break
    How exactly would you expect pressure to break a disc? Mr. Celerystalker has the right idea. Stick-on disc labels in theory can exert enough force on a disc over time to deform them to the point where they may no longer be readable, if they're applied improperly. It is also possible to spin a disc fast enough that it will actually start to warp and subsequently shatter; there are some lovely Youtube videos of that effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorpho View Post
    How exactly would you expect pressure to break a disc?
    I would expect that the pressures present at the bottom of the ocean would have a negative effect on a disc. Unfortunately, I could not find any data to back this up.
    Mario says "... if you do drugs, you go to hell before you die."

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    Kirby (Level 13) Leo_A's Avatar
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    Why such a peculiar question? Assuming you just have too much time on your hands and we're just attempting to satisfy your curiosity, I think we have a right to have our curiosity satisfied as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by RP2A03 View Post
    I would expect that the pressures present at the bottom of the ocean would have a negative effect on a disc. Unfortunately, I could not find any data to back this up.
    Unless the material that optical discs are made up of isn't solid, I wouldn't expect the pressure on the bottom of the ocean to cause damage. It's stuff like styrofoam or submarines that have issues with that.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 07-26-2015 at 09:06 AM.

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    Well, conceivably one might want to store a cartridge or disc unprotected in the bottom of a storage locker (as the volume of any additional packing would add to storage costs), and thus need to know the maximum load that could be stacked thereupon?
    "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." --Bertrand Russel (attributed)

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    That actually kind of makes sense, but still, if something has enough value, why would you want to put like 300lbs of crap on top of it that might cause structural integrity failure? Once that plastic shell goes it'll stab right into the guts on the inside when it folds in on itself. A disc though, that could take a good bit more, but even if they are by appearance solid, they really aren't, nothing really is. Sure it would take a lot more pressure than say an object with a clear open space to it, still enough pressure would cause some space somewhere along the disc to fail, compress down under the stress and crack. The disc though would take a hell of a lot more pressure than a cart.

    The cheapest way I think you could test it would be to get a cheap weight checking device you could put between it, the object causing the force, and the object having it applied to it and keep adding more weight or force until it buckles and you'll know. You can get stuff that even just has a spring in the middle, a hook on each side, and a gauge in the middle that'll move the needle along as more force it applied while something computer based would cost far more.

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    Default Ok this all explains about the disc

    @celerystalker Thanks! This adds more light toward the experiment on the disc side. Also did not expect 100% accuracy because I noticed some discs are simply made different. The only challenging thing would be cartridges (for 2 direct objects not too big overlap them & simply hold them up instead of cover up). Never mind, the side of a cartridge is flat so it needs little force to hold it. @RP2A03 No. @Emperor Megas lol come to what asking questions? @Niku-Sama ok I have a bathroom scale, what is a vice? @Jorpho I did not know that a disc can shatter if it is spun at insane speeds, and I did not know disc labels had an effect like that. @Leo_A Not thinking of putting it in the ocean. This question because it made a lot of since to me with cake disc boxes being abundant it hit me that "how much pressure before it actually breaks" and how many could be stacked or raw pressure given before it breaks. @Tanooki I was not planning on just picking any old disc or cartridge. It would have to one that there is no hope at all but not cracked. Also I am a bit confused on the exact meaning by the needle in the middle? Like a pendulum with force right?
    -----
    Anyway this question evolved into 2 different ways that I did not expect. 1. A scenario where the disc or cartridge is in the middle between two objects. 2. A scenario where the disc or cartridge is crushed under other discs or cartridges. I was focused on scenario 1. But scenario 2 makes me just as curious. Why in a locker and not the floor for scenario 2?
    Last edited by Ogreatgames; 07-25-2015 at 11:03 PM. Reason: Added more
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogreatgames View Post
    This question because it made a lot of since to me with cake disc boxes being abundant it hit me that "how much pressure before it actually breaks" and how many could be stacked or raw pressure given before it breaks.
    Discs should not be stored horizontally; they will warp over time. Optical discs should be treated similarly to grooved discs. This means that they should be stored vertically in jewel cases only, and if you are really serious you should also rotate your discs one quarter turn every three months.
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    Kirby (Level 13) Leo_A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogreatgames View Post
    @Leo_A Not thinking of putting it in the ocean. This question because it made a lot of since to me with cake disc boxes being abundant it hit me that "how much pressure before it actually breaks" and how many could be stacked or raw pressure given before it breaks.
    No kidding about the ocean. Nobody thought that you were planning to dump games into the depths of the ocean.

    And cake disc boxes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_A View Post
    And cake disc boxes?
    Those things recordable discs come in.


    I should also point out that if you stack naked discs on top of each other, all of the pressure will be on the center ring which is raised.
    Last edited by RP2A03; 07-26-2015 at 11:39 AM.
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    The needle in the middle was me trying to roughly explain what the item I was thinking looked like.

    Imagine a circular viewing area with a lot of lines and numbers with a black needle that points to them, and it moves up from 0 to whatever it's max is. Each side would have a hook or something of the sort, and it would be a middle piece that would take the pulling upon it to gauge the weight, basically a different type of scale. The more pulling, the more weight applied, and as the pulling increases you watch it and whenever the game breaks you found your destruction point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogreatgames View Post
    Anyway this question evolved into 2 different ways that I did not expect. 1. A scenario where the disc or cartridge is in the middle between two objects. 2. A scenario where the disc or cartridge is crushed under other discs or cartridges.
    I do not understand why you think these scenarios are different.

    Quote Originally Posted by RP2A03 View Post
    if you are really serious you should also rotate your discs one quarter turn every three months.
    Is that something vinyl collectors actually do?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorpho View Post
    Is that something vinyl collectors actually do?
    Probably not, but I believe the Library of Congress does. Unfortunately, I can't find solid proof of this at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RP2A03 View Post
    Discs should not be stored horizontally; they will warp over time. Optical discs should be treated similarly to grooved discs. This means that they should be stored vertically in jewel cases only, and if you are really serious you should also rotate your discs one quarter turn every three months.
    Over what time period are we talking here? Storing them horizontally, I mean. and in what environmental conditions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceAerosmith View Post
    Over what time period are we talking here? Storing them horizontally, I mean.
    Probably a really long time, but is is recommend practice by the Library of Congress and since we keep our games for a really long time it makes since to follow these practices when practical.
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