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Thread: RIP RetroVGS/Coleco Chameleon: Retro Console Epic Disaster (2015-2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jperryss View Post
    The original page is worth a read if you can find it.
    For those curious there's a PDF version of the page backed up with the internet archive. I'll post a link to it below. The original links and sites are all dead.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20060214...epowerbook.pdf

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    It's sad to see this trainwreck unfold, but can't say I'm shocked. I think pretty much everyone saw this coming. 1.9 million goal was insane, and at this point, it looks like they'll struggle to reach 100,000 much less 1.9 million.

    Wondering how much longer before Mike pulls the plug and heads back to the drawing board. Can you imagine being in his shoes and how depressed he must feel after seeing the lack of support? But this can't be blamed on the fans or the "nay sayers." The project has changed so much and a lot of less-than-noble things have taken place to deter would-be and on-the-fence backers. It's a shame, really, how this whole thing has gone.

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    You know, what I really don't like about this project even more than the dubious business plan is that its library is essentially loaded with games readily available on other systems, many even in cartridge form. Even Tiny Knight started development as an SNES homebrew. GunLord is on Dreamcast or Neo Geo, as is Last Hope. Super Noah's Ark was a sloppy SNES game that I can't imagine being better here... Knight's Chance is on Neo Geo. Hell, for $300, just buy a modded Neo Geo AES, or even better, an MVS cab. Pier Solar was on Genesis, and is coming to Dreamcast if you want a physical copy... next thing you know, maybe wr can finally have a way to pay for Beats of Rage. No lawsuits there, right?

    It's shameful to have such a high price without the promise of unique content instead of carts for games on other systems. They should be embarrassed to come to a collector's market that is conversant in game history and try to sell a system on its own merits instead of its unique offerings. These guys should look at each other honestly and discuss what it is they're really trying to achieve. If it's to say, "We did it!" it's the wrong thing. If it's to dupe the initial buyers in order for a quick cash out, it's the wrong thing. If it's to create a true alternative platform with any sort of sustainable future, they need to stop, find a handful of UNIQUE titles to show the promise of what could be, and put everything into building success around those experiences in order to have something to show to potential developers as a viable revenue stream. As is, there is zero future even with completion of the fundraiser, just a pop and a fizzle. This plan is even worse than buying the rights to just manufacture new Jaguars and homebrews. At least there's a healthier development scene there.

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    digging the card board pcb, way to keep it green.

    I actually want a shell though, red with black lettering would be a cool replacement for the jag or a fun project

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    Quote Originally Posted by celerystalker View Post
    You know, what I really don't like about this project even more than the dubious business plan is that its library is essentially loaded with games readily available on other systems, many even in cartridge form. Even Tiny Knight started development as an SNES homebrew. GunLord is on Dreamcast or Neo Geo, as is Last Hope. Super Noah's Ark was a sloppy SNES game that I can't imagine being better here... Knight's Chance is on Neo Geo. Hell, for $300, just buy a modded Neo Geo AES, or even better, an MVS cab. Pier Solar was on Genesis, and is coming to Dreamcast if you want a physical copy... next thing you know, maybe wr can finally have a way to pay for Beats of Rage. No lawsuits there, right?

    It's shameful to have such a high price without the promise of unique content instead of carts for games on other systems. They should be embarrassed to come to a collector's market that is conversant in game history and try to sell a system on its own merits instead of its unique offerings. These guys should look at each other honestly and discuss what it is they're really trying to achieve. If it's to say, "We did it!" it's the wrong thing. If it's to dupe the initial buyers in order for a quick cash out, it's the wrong thing. If it's to create a true alternative platform with any sort of sustainable future, they need to stop, find a handful of UNIQUE titles to show the promise of what could be, and put everything into building success around those experiences in order to have something to show to potential developers as a viable revenue stream. As is, there is zero future even with completion of the fundraiser, just a pop and a fizzle. This plan is even worse than buying the rights to just manufacture new Jaguars and homebrews. At least there's a healthier development scene there.
    Development of unique games that are worth a damn costs money. Generally speaking, the better and more complex the game, the more money required. This is why the Retro VGS isn't iniitally getting exclusives and why it isn't likely to see many in it's future unless it becomes a runaway success. In many ways, the Retro VGS faces the same challenges as the Ouya and just like the Ouya, the most it can hope for is to try to co-exist with much more popular options and get the same games they get. I happen to love the Ouya, but the point is as an indie developer you want to get the most exposure you can to build up your recognition and move up the latter in the industry. The best way to do that is to make your games available on as many platforms as you possibly can - steam, android/ios, Ouya, WiiU, PS4, Xbox 360, etc.

    Therefore, what you are saying is invalid. You somehow want the VGS to magically come up with exclusives out of thin air that are worth a damn and THEN launch the fundraiser to gain support.

    That's not realistic in the least because where is that money going to come from? Kennedy himself? He's already footing a huge bill for the design of the console itself. He's not a tycoon billionaire that can just throw money at a problem and create something new out of thin air.

    That being said, I do agree that it sucks the VGS - if it actually does come to fruition - will mostly play games available on other consoles with very few actual exclusives. Kennedy is hoping that the novelty of getting those games on physical cartridges will be enough reason to choose the VGS versions over the digital-only versions found on the others, but I think for the vast majority of people, thats not even remotely a problem.

    As a retro gamer, I do kind of long for the days when I could get physical copies of whatever game comes out, but at the same time, the price difference between a digital-only release and a cartridge one is so great that even if I could get physical versions of every digital-only game that comes out, I think the adoption rate would only be around 25% at the most. The Metal Slug-like PSN game on PS4 called Mercenary Kings is an excellent $15 digital-only game. Would it be a $50 worthy physical cartridge on the VGS? Mayyyyybe....but the point is that would be something I'd have to really think about. And assuming it was, what about the next game? and then the next? One of the side effects of digtial only games being so cheap is that I buy more of them. There are lots of games I'm willing to try for $10 as digital-only that I probably wouldn't give a chance if they were $50 cartridges.


    For me personally, if I bought a Retro VGS, I'd only end up buying games for it that I was 100% sure of -- meaning, games I had already bought for other platforms...meaning that right off the bat the only reason to own a VGS would be to put the games on the shelf and look at them in that way, since if I actually wanted to play them, I could just fire up whatever mainstream console it is that already has that game.

    I predict that the 2 million dollar fundraiser will fail, but I hope that doesn't mean the Retro VGS will die on the vine. Like I said before, I love my Ouya and I am okay with it not having many exclusives. In the same regard, I am okay with the Retro VGS also not having many exclusives. I want one to own a physical Shantae Pirate's Curse. Physical Megaman 9 and 10. Physical Steamworld Dig. All these games I already own. Is that silly? I guess so. Doesn't change how I feel though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven View Post
    It's sad to see this trainwreck unfold, but can't say I'm shocked. I think pretty much everyone saw this coming. 1.9 million goal was insane, and at this point, it looks like they'll struggle to reach 100,000 much less 1.9 million.

    Wondering how much longer before Mike pulls the plug and heads back to the drawing board. Can you imagine being in his shoes and how depressed he must feel after seeing the lack of support? But this can't be blamed on the fans or the "nay sayers." The project has changed so much and a lot of less-than-noble things have taken place to deter would-be and on-the-fence backers. It's a shame, really, how this whole thing has gone.
    Yeah it is sad, but you know what I don't even think he's at the drawing board looking at that mess with the cardboard. He's more at the have the preschooler work with some macaroni and string stage of design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    Development of unique games that are worth a damn costs money. Generally speaking, the better and more complex the game, the more money required. This is why the Retro VGS isn't iniitally getting exclusives and why it isn't likely to see many in it's future unless it becomes a runaway success. In many ways, the Retro VGS faces the same challenges as the Ouya and just like the Ouya, the most it can hope for is to try to co-exist with much more popular options and get the same games they get. I happen to love the Ouya, but the point is as an indie developer you want to get the most exposure you can to build up your recognition and move up the latter in the industry. The best way to do that is to make your games available on as many platforms as you possibly can - steam, android/ios, Ouya, WiiU, PS4, Xbox 360, etc.

    Therefore, what you are saying is invalid. You somehow want the VGS to magically come up with exclusives out of thin air that are worth a damn and THEN launch the fundraiser to gain support.

    That's not realistic in the least because where is that money going to come from? Kennedy himself? He's already footing a huge bill for the design of the console itself. He's not a tycoon billionaire that can just throw money at a problem and create something new out of thin air.

    That being said, I do agree that it sucks the VGS - if it actually does come to fruition - will mostly play games available on other consoles with very few actual exclusives. Kennedy is hoping that the novelty of getting those games on physical cartridges will be enough reason to choose the VGS versions over the digital-only versions found on the others, but I think for the vast majority of people, thats not even remotely a problem.

    As a retro gamer, I do kind of long for the days when I could get physical copies of whatever game comes out, but at the same time, the price difference between a digital-only release and a cartridge one is so great that even if I could get physical versions of every digital-only game that comes out, I think the adoption rate would only be around 25% at the most. The Metal Slug-like PSN game on PS4 called Mercenary Kings is an excellent $15 digital-only game. Would it be a $50 worthy physical cartridge on the VGS? Mayyyyybe....but the point is that would be something I'd have to really think about. And assuming it was, what about the next game? and then the next? One of the side effects of digtial only games being so cheap is that I buy more of them. There are lots of games I'm willing to try for $10 as digital-only that I probably wouldn't give a chance if they were $50 cartridges.


    For me personally, if I bought a Retro VGS, I'd only end up buying games for it that I was 100% sure of -- meaning, games I had already bought for other platforms...meaning that right off the bat the only reason to own a VGS would be to put the games on the shelf and look at them in that way, since if I actually wanted to play them, I could just fire up whatever mainstream console it is that already has that game.

    I predict that the 2 million dollar fundraiser will fail, but I hope that doesn't mean the Retro VGS will die on the vine. Like I said before, I love my Ouya and I am okay with it not having many exclusives. In the same regard, I am okay with the Retro VGS also not having many exclusives. I want one to own a physical Shantae Pirate's Curse. Physical Megaman 9 and 10. Physical Steamworld Dig. All these games I already own. Is that silly? I guess so. Doesn't change how I feel though.
    It's not an invalid statement to say that unique games are vital to any long-term success for this thing. An uphill battle? Sure. A huge financial commitment? Definitely. That doesn't make it any less important to giving a system that is already in the shell of another an identity. Companies like Super Fighter Team have gone the hard route to officially have the rights to games never published in the west, and Brandon Cobb is not a tycoon billionaire, and neither are the folks who developed a unique title like Pier Solar. Making a financial exclusive publishing arrangement for these kinds of products is not an impossibility, especially with their talk of being able to mimic other systems on the VGS hardware. Find an indie developer who wants to try something different. Negotiate for the rights to a cheap, dead IP that has a reputable translation patch, and include that translator in a profit sharing program as a short-term model.

    It is not impossible, nor is it invalid. It's the challenge for an effort of this scale to succeed.

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    I'm holding out for the RETRO CD to be announced.


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    https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/883655458370392

    The first comment really nails it. I wonder if he'll even leave the campaign up for the full 45 days. It's as dead as GameGavel.

    @Kokonoe: That's the thing - he has NOTHING in the way of a hardware design. The cardboard PCB was so bad because after months of prostrating that they were doing the funding drive, that was all they had to show for it? A cardboard design that was missing components?

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    If this were a vanity project where they wanted to produce a few dozen units with four or five games and then put it out there to the community for whoever wanted to make games for it, if they wanted to make games for it, then I could have seen it working under that limited scope. But this sounds like they wanted to get it in stores, court major publishers, and be relatively mainstream, which is just bananas.

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    I actually think this is a really cool idea. I would love to see a system like Retro VGS succeed!
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    I think there are many here who would want it to, or at least did want it to.

    The problem is all the scheming and manipulation with the cardboard mock up, dissolved kickstarter, other fairy dust, and the horribly overpriced fantasy they want for an MSRP both on it and the games if that upwards of $50 price tag is real.

    I'd love to own one, at around no more than $100 and maybe $30 a game max. They're really offering nothing where it's at now but predestined failure.

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    Sad thing is with your link, it's very likely more functional than whatever they've got built so far.

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    I cannot possibly keep up with the comedy goldmine that this is turning into. The AA thread linked in the OP catches just about everything that transpires, from the person who has a stake in GameGavel (omg so valuable) throwing SoCalMike under the bus to the negative dollar funding to the multitude of damage control attempts that happen on a daily basis.

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    I can't either, and it is a tragic comedy for sure. I'm glad that link to AA was supplied as I had no idea the layers of stupid stunts, bad decisions, and deceit were going on with it. My interest is shot unless there's a radical design change and price tier with a huge drop on it. I'd view this thing value wise around what a cartridge console clone (system on a chip no less) will get or like Ouya which I think was $100 wasn't it?

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    Oh goodie!

    More Fucking Hipster Posers co-opting and sterilizing the retro game culture even more, they arent satisfied by fucking up the retro game price for all eternity due to greed, exploitation and stupidity, now they are fucking the consoles as well, first the shill my stolen emus wife retron 5, then let's butchers actual NES and famicom boards with the NT that does even do up-scaling right, and now this.

    FUCK THEM!

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    It gets worse and worse. It's gone from feeling sorry for those guys involved to now just questioning their ethics and true motives. It's gone from sad to downright embarrassing. Mismanagement and miscommunication from top to bottom has doomed this project. It's like they're sabotaging themselves purposely, almost. That's how bad it's become.

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    Has anyone listened to the interview Gamester81 did with Mike?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmapDzXBA70

    I've been watching Gamester since 2009 I believe and his channel is just shilling crap most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaKat View Post
    Has anyone listened to the interview Gamester81 did with Mike?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmapDzXBA70

    I've been watching Gamester since 2009 I believe and his channel is just shilling crap most of the time.
    I stopped watching Gamester after he had a video talking about how it isn't fun to really collect anymore due to price and then has a video with his friend that buys as many games as possible then puts them on ebay for more. It just annoyed me and then most of his videos as you say are him shilling all the time. Still seems cool but I have plenty of other options on youtube so it isn't a big deal.
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