Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: SEGA Genesis Model 1 Non-TMSS Freezing

  1. #1
    Insert Coin (Level 0)
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    3
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default SEGA Genesis Model 1 Non-TMSS Freezing

    Hello all,

    I have a non-TMSS High Def Model 1 SEGA Genesis that just keeps wanting to freeze. I've analyzed the problem in great detail and it is quite odd.

    First off, I have several Genesises and I know for a fact it's not my game cartridges. They work flawlessly in the other Genesises I have, and they're clean as a bell.

    Now, the problem:
    If the system has been off for a while (a "cold" boot), the game (ANY game, mind you, have tried multiple) will work perfectly for about 5-10 seconds. The interesting thing about this working period of time is that it's absolutely glitch-free, perfect high definition graphics, great audio, and I can even wiggle the cartridge back and forth while it's playing and no interruptions, glitches, or freezes. (This tells me the pins aren't really the issue.) But then, at some point, the inevitable freeze will happen.

    What happens during the freeze depends on the game. In Sonic 2, it's always just a frozen video frame & audio frame. In Madden 94, it can be an ADDRESS ERROR. In Last Battle, it's always a reset (goes back to SEGA logo every time). It seems pretty consistent on the same game.

    Now for the odd part: the pattern is, on cold boot, around 5-10 seconds (haven't actually counted but I'd guess about that). On subsequent resets or power offs (either one really) it starts freezing faster and faster, roughly half the time as the previous! So the second boot will only last around 3-5 seconds, then the third 1-3, then eventually it starts barely even being able to load the first few frames. Last Battle was easy to test for this because the freeze itself causes a reset, so I can just sit back and watch it keep resetting itself faster and faster and faster, roughly halving each time, but this is the same pattern across all games. (I can upload a video of this if anyone's curious)

    I should also clarify this only seems to be a time issue; it is not any certain part of the game's code that causes it. For example, in Sonic 2, on cold boot, I can just sit at the intro screen and it will happen, OR I can hurry up and press start and get into the first level and race to the first enemy and die. Either way, roughly same timing of freeze. Same with Last Battle and Madden, etc.

    The only thing that helps and makes it last longer is to power it off and wait. Not sure exactly how long, perhaps 10 minutes will get it back to "cold" boot, 5-10 seconds. Then the same patterns repeat. I should note this happens whether I leave a cartridge in the system during the cooldown or not.

    Of course, everything I read on forums, etc. was to clean the pins. I've toothbrushed, I've used the "Eliminator" with alcohol (there was actually a lot of black gunk, lot less now). I haven't yet tried the sandpaper though because I'm not entirely convinced the pins are the problem.

    I tried hooking it into a SEGA CD Model 1 just to see if it can run well without a cartridge plugged into it, but even after cleaning the expansion board, I got nothing to show at all. I googled around and it appears that maybe non-TMSS Genesises have issues with SEGA CD Model 1's? So maybe it's just that. I would try a SEGA CD Model 2 but I'm too lazy to unhook it from my other Genesis that's hooked into it. (Do you think this would be worth trying?)

    I tried different power adapters, and the other Genesises I have work well with the same power adapters, wall sockets, same video cable too.

    So yeah, I'm at a loss. I mean, at this point I highly doubt it's just "the pins are dirty", given everything I've said and the fact that I've cleaned em a bunch, but who knows. Is it overheating? What are some things I can test out? Your help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
    Last edited by Raidenthequick; 09-19-2015 at 04:25 PM.

  2. #2
    ServeBot (Lɘvel 11) RP2A03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    59 6F 75 72 20 48 44 44 20 61 64 64 69 6E 67 20 65 6D 62 61 72 72 61 73 73 69 6E 67 20 64 61 74 61
    Posts
    3,548
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    I'm inclined to say that you have a bad solder joint somewhere.
    Mario says "... if you do drugs, you go to hell before you die."

  3. #3
    Alex (Level 15) Custom rank graphic
    Gameguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Richmond Hill, Ontario (Canada)
    Posts
    7,918
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    78
    Thanked in
    70 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RP2A03 View Post
    I'm inclined to say that you have a bad solder joint somewhere.
    First thing that came to mind after reading this. When the console heats up just enough, the board flexes slightly and the solder connection fails. When the console has been off for awhile it's colder so it takes longer for the problem to start up.

    Look over the solder connections on the board and reflow any that look suspicious, or have someone do it for you.

  4. #4
    Great Puma (Level 12) Niku-Sama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Deadford, OR
    Posts
    4,129
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    63
    Thanked in
    59 Posts

    Default

    Is the voltage regulator heatsinked on these?
    I run into this problem when one is on its way out and not making a good contact with the heatsink. Better contact helps it but by this point it's heated up being spec too many times and should be replaced anyway

  5. #5
    Insert Coin (Level 0)
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    3
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately, I am pretty ignorant with computer hardware (I work in software ). But I'm not averse to learning. How do I identify the solder joints and, more importantly, how do I know whether they're "suspicious"? Also, how do I identify the voltage regulator and how would I know whether it's making good contact with the heatsink?

    I realize these questions are super elementary, if you guys know any good documentation / guides / tutorials out there that answers these questions (whether SEGA Genesis or just general hardware stuff), I would read through that happily and try to get up to speed. I've been collecting/selling and doing simple repairs to systems for years but anything too complicated I usually just sell as broken to someone more knowledgeable. But I think recently I feel like I want to be more capable and want to finally learn this stuff, out of nerdy interest as well as restoration / selling purposes.

  6. #6
    Great Puma (Level 12) Niku-Sama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Deadford, OR
    Posts
    4,129
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    63
    Thanked in
    59 Posts

    Default

    ok I got some visual aids on this one.

    a solder joint is the pint where a component comes through the board or attaches to the board via some other position and the soldered to the board it self. that's a joint
    when they say look for a cold or broken solder joint they will look like the following.

    cold solder joint

    broken solder joint

    if there are points that look like this on the bottom of the board its recommended to reheat these joints with a soldering iron and apply a little more solder so its making a better connection.

    now for the voltage regulator part.

    http://atariage.com/forums/uploads/m...1339217350.jpg

    the above link is a picture of a Sega model 1 non tmss like the one your talking about. or at least that's what the author of the thread is saying. either way its similar enough to point out the heatsink.

    on the top left corner of the main board you'll see a bent aluminum plate. its bent with kind of a Z shape with the center of the Z straight up and down.
    on that straight up and down part you can see the tops of 2 screws in the picture. I'm sure on your you'll notice on yours that the 2 screws are holding down 2 little black blocks with a metal tab coming out of them that the screw is going through. that screw is holding them to the metal plate that is the heat sink.

    those 2 little black blocks with the metal tab poking out the top with the screw hole in it are the voltage regulators.

    how your explaining how its working, or not working, sounds to me that there is something going on with these. the way it works cold but goes off after its been on a short time suggests that something is heating up and at the rate its heating up it sounds more like the voltage regulators than any thing else. there could be a bad connection to the heat sink on the back side. if one of the screws is gone or missing it could cause this.

    the regulators could be bad if there is any dark rainbowish discoloration behind the black blocks it could be an indication that they got really hot once and now its not able to regulate like it should or it could just be going out due to age and that it had a minor defect from the factory that's just now become apparent because of age.

    there could also be broken, cold or bad solder joints on these.

    this is just my thinking, its what it sounds like to me when I have had regulators go out in other things.
    I'm sure there are other people that are going to say capacitors or others that would mention other potential problems.
    Last edited by Niku-Sama; 09-29-2015 at 04:12 AM.

  7. #7
    Insert Coin (Level 0)
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    3
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Thank you very much for this detailed explanation. I will look into this when I have time.

Similar Threads

  1. WTB/WTTF:non-tmss model 1 genesis
    By SnowKitty in forum Buying and Selling
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-22-2017, 10:53 AM
  2. Genesis Model 1 Non-TMSS
    By Polygon in forum Buying and Selling
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-21-2015, 12:17 AM
  3. Genesis Model 2 Sound and Freezing Issues
    By Coreykun667 in forum Classic Gaming
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-27-2013, 03:41 PM
  4. WTB: Non TMSS Model 1 Genesis
    By Camp in forum Buying and Selling
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-01-2011, 03:01 PM
  5. Best Version of Model 1 Genesis? TMSS Vs. Non TMSS
    By wingzrow in forum Technical and Restoration Society
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-12-2010, 04:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •