Big difference: I said I won't respond to YOU. You're not everyone. Reason: Read your above post full of nonsense and insults.Originally Posted by Bojay1997
Again, learn to read: I never hid the fact that I bought Dariusburst from LR, I mentioned that in this thread already weeks ago. I said even (maybe not in this thread) that Dariusburst might be the first LR game I'll buy shortly after it was announced.
Do you realize that your posts sound pretty nutty at times?
Sorry, this auction didn't come up when I looked at them. I searched for 'Dariusburst Limited Run' so I get the PS4 games and Vita games as well. So this one I didn't consider. Sorry about that. Maybe because this auction says unusually first 'Limited Edition, Brand New' and only then Dariusburst?? Even with this price the average drops to maybe $152 from $160. (this average price should be, however, disregarded because the more recent prices are about $135)
I just looked them up again, and the usual prices in July are from $125 to $140, that's why I wrote that realistically the game goes for around $130 to $140. The auction you refer to is a big exception, however, I was wrong when I wrote that no auction came close to retail price. One indeed did.
Still very profitable for ebay sellers despite the exception that LR had competition from PlayAsia.
Last edited by lendelin; 08-04-2017 at 03:06 PM.
Right, my posts are the nutty ones. I mean can you even comprehend how crazy it must seem to the rest of us that you are spending time on Ebay and on LRG and all over the place gathering data just so you can make one more worthless post on a forum that is lucky if it has a few dozen active users nowadays? Your whole argument is nonsensical. It's like you can't comprehend that this isn't 1994 and that there are now literally millions of people collecting all sorts of things and that part of all that collecting has been the unfortunate emergence of scalpers that seek out limited items and want to take their cut for doing the most minimal of work. I mean literally nothing you are saying is relevant or useful.Big difference: I said I won't respond to YOU. You're not everyone. Reason: Read your above post full of nonsense and insults.
Again, learn to read: I never hid the fact that I bought Dariusburst from LR, I mentioned that in this thread already weeks ago. I said even (maybe not in this thread) that Dariusburst might be the first LR game I'll buy shortly after it was announced.
Do you realize that your posts sound pretty nutty at times?
You seem to be proposing that LRG and all their competitors must switch over to a risky retail model where stock stays around long enough to see price cuts so you can then go in and buy it at a discount. How is that helpful to the developers or LRG or the community in general if you suck away the primary financial incentive for these companies to even do what they're doing? Soedesco and the other retail publishers certainly don't want that model as all that inventory depreciates and eventually ends up costing them money as it gets stored for years or returned by retailers. If too many people pursue your approach of waiting for even cheap niche titles to fall in price, the market will simply dry up and disappear much like it did for cheap portable cartridge games on the 3ds and elsewhere.
In the end, LRG's business model is what it is. Nothing you have said or will say here, no matter how much Ebay data or hyperbole you throw in is going to change the fact that if you want these particular releases in physical form, at this point in time, LRG is the only source for them. That might not always be the case and maybe Play Asia and others will continue to get Asian copies of games previously released by LRG, but sitting here and ranting about how terrible LRG is will do nothing to make that happen or to change their model or anyone else's.
Wow, the 6 o'clock batch sold out in less than 2 minutes. I got one this time at least.
I got mine and then as soon as I refreshed it was gone. The bundle that includes LawBreakers is still up, but most collector's don't want LawBreakers because the online only bs. Half of WonderBoy is bundled to force a sale to people who don't even want the game but really want WonderBoy. I mean only 5000 for one of the most anticipated releases and then you hold most of them hostage behind a bundle? I mean wtf.
The other thing is that all the listings are going in and out of stock. The WonderBoy CE, the bundled CEs. From what it says at the site, Shopify changed so that they don't hold the game in queue, as soon as the transaction goes through it's gone, not whether it's in your cart anymore or not so why does it keep going in and out of stock? I already know a lot of people wanted this one and a lot are going to be pissed regardless, but this musical chairs bs is a bit ridiculous.
*edit*
Now they're all gone except for the standard and CE versions of LawBreakers. Imagine that, the version of LawBreakers that sells out first is the one that includes a game that people actually want. Checking inventory, LawBreakers CE is still at 87% and SE is at 36% and you've been able to purchase two. What a scummy move doing what they did in order to move stock.
Last edited by kupomogli; 08-04-2017 at 05:22 PM.
Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.
I feel Lawbreakers will be a huge flop for them. The only reason it so let copies was because it was bundled with Wonderboy. Right now, the CE edition is still widely available at around 78%. While it will eventually sell, I hope this teaches them a lesson or at least be weary regarding certain titles. Hopefully, it will cause them to ease up a bit.
I'm thankful I could get t he CE version of Wonderboy early today at work. I wonder what the nightmare of Night Trap will be.
Also, I noticed that the countdown clock on the main page was ahead by a few minutes. This could have caused issues.
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For anyone who may have still missed Wonder Boy, LRG is going to relist some tomorrow (a mix of standard and LEs) after they sift through orders and cancel purchases that broke the limit. No idea what time, though.
I'm kinda fearful that whatever lesson LRG takes from LawBreakers will result in "print fewer copies of other games", rather than understanding the nuance of how an online-only title and an unnumbered release can affect sales. I mean, still to this day, I don't think they properly understand the backlash to the pricing of DariusBurst on Vita, thinking all it is is "people don't want to pay $50 for a Vita game, period". And they totally screwed the pooch with the bundle. If it had been available at the same time as the standalone copies, fine, it saves some time for people who wanted both, but by the time the bundles went up, standalone Wonder Boy was gone. Creating a listing that lasts a little longer at the cost of forcing people to buy a game they don't want to get the one they do is not a smart nor appreciated trade-off. The bundles lasted longer precisely BECAUSE people were hesitant to pay for LawBreakers when all they really wanted was Wonder Boy, and all it accomplished was gaining people's ire, adding insult to injury when people were already frustrated over how quickly Wonder Boy sold out. Bottom line, PRINT MORE COPIES. If the print run sizes for all these various releases aren't already burned into their brains, I think LRG and all the developers working with them would be well-served looking at a single compiled list like I have in the opening post and reflect upon the print run sizes of past titles, the popularity of those titles, and how quickly they sold out. Because I really can't comprehend how they came up with 8000 total for Wonder Boy given its popularity relative to past releases and the print run sizes of those past releases.
This entire concept continues to make zero sense to me. Glad I'm completely out of the loop and stress free.
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You are not collecting anymore? Just not in the mood anymore or what happened? Btw, I am also way beyond that I want as many games as possible, but I still spend a lot of money for games.
You are absolutely right about Limited Run in every aspect. They justify their salesmodel with the dumbest of reasoning. When I heard by some justifications of the salesmodel I thought it was the nonsensical defense-wall of a fanbase sounding like the PR-department of LR; but then I just recently learned that it WAS actually the babble of LR just repeated by a fanbase.
Here is an example of the statements of Limited Run itself in their twitter account about the release of Nighttrap. Some had the audacity to question their salesmodel:
https://twitter.com/limitedrungames/...946881?lang=de
Why the limited production numbers?
Answer LR: "Simply put, if a game is overprinted it will sink us or our partners due to the extremely high cost of printing physical inventory." and "we will print an amount that will safely sell without risking our livelihood."
This was repeated again and again in this thread. In short, they have to do it otherwise they would face bankruptcy, and this way they ensure that we get physical games on disc. The same reasoning was used to answer your Q.
Someone should just ask them how other small publishers with normal distribution models which print digital games by small developers on physical disc manage to survive? They are not only surviving, they are doing very well, publishing more and more games (over 200 in the last three years). They and Limited Run are in a growing niche market. It is not a struggle anymore against an overall powerful digital god; on the contrary, Soedesco, Badland Games, Maximum Games, THQ Nordic and many other companies prove that it is possible to sell these kind of games and make a profit. Still, the nonsensical PR-babble by LR is repeated again and again.
Why is that? Because LR convinced a lot of gamers that LIMITED RUN does not stand for limited production numbers but for 'preserving digital games on disc'. They ingeniously sold their salesmodel in a euphemistic way by putting the bad program (the limited run) in the name and associated it with something good; and it was accepted because gamers wanted desperately great digital games on disc. I was among them, but I never bought the part about the limited production numbers. Everyone including their fanbase and LR itself knew what will happen, what kind of a salesmodel this is: Rarity hype based on limited production associated and re-enforced by ebay scalping.
Creating artificial scarcity? Answer LR: "Are you aware that we don't lock up rights to games? The developers and publishers we've worked with have full rights to reprint more."
Nonsense. This is a niche market, once a indie-game is published, in particular with the artificial demand created by LR, it is over. It only happened in the case of one game, a game that was tailored to the Asian market and published by an Asian company. One game of the over sixty games published by LR got reprinted, that's not a coincidence. The fanbase will now respond that if not for LR we wouldn't get these games. Also nonsense. The game is over with one print for these kind of smaller games, not that other publsiher aren't interested in getting these games. I am also sure that Limited Run would not reprint Inside/Limbo and Axiom Verge after they lost the publishing rights (thank godness) to other companies, even if they could. The market won't accept a second print run.
To answer your Q about who sets the print run numbers? Don't listen to the PR-babble by the fanbase, they are repeating again Limited Run itself. LR stated again and again that the DEVELOPERS set the numbers. Are they kidding? The guys who don't take the risk about the final sales decide for LR the production numbers? LR takes the financial responsibility about sales and let someone else dictate to them how many they will print?
Ridiculous and completely nonsense. Another example to which extent a faithful fanbase can get bamboozled.
The bottom line is that a terrible salesmodel is defended by an adamant fanbase. Small openings of sales windows as a result of intended rarity hype and limited production numbers, artificially deflated supply and artificially inflated demand with the result of limited availability and terrible ebay prices are justified by nonsense and belittlements of the consequences. Ebay prices are not so bad (yes, they are); ebay prices will come down (not for high-in demand games); LR can't do anything about ebay scalping (yes they could, AND they intentionally used ebay scalping to sell their games); the 5 minute sales windows aren't a problem nowadays in the age of smartphones (yes, they are!); sometimes certain games are up for hours, sometimes even an entire day! (really? incredible!); other small publishers face bankruptcy or get government subsidies or are not profit-oriented (this was seriously said!); and my personal favorite: I should put my money were my mouth is and found my own publishing company in order to prove that my criticism is valid!
The nonsense runs high. But the following by Limited Run Games itself will be an evergreen of nonsense! How do they justify their limited print salesmodel? (it's in the twitter link above)
Limited Run: "Atari crashed the game industry by overprinting games. There isn't infinite demand for this stuff."
I leave it like that without a comment because it is just too stupid. I'm just glad that no-one on this site had the chuzpe to repeat this statement which borders idiocy. Can you imagine to compare the industry and economics of 1983 to the situation of the game industry today? If Limited Run would have printed 5000 more copies of Wonderboy and 2000 of them would have sold not immediately but in the next couple of months, in this case I'm not so sure it might have triggered in the long run another videogame crash.
The last statement shows, however, how very safe the LR-guys feel with their fanbase, not even nonsensical stuff hurt their reputation and puts a dent in the adamant following fanbase.
And you just can't let it go. You have now posted how many times today? Do you not have a job or anything else productive to do with your life other than to keep posting the same nonsense over and over again? Here's the thing, nobody that buys LRG games is under any delusion about what their model is or isn't. Nobody is being tricked or outsmarted or swindled. We all get it. Their model is the same as Mondo or Ubisoft Store or NIS or Square-Enix Store or Iam8Bit or any company that sells limited edition products and makes it clear that they won't be doing reprints and that once something is sold out, it's gone. They all move product by offering something people want and reinforcing the need to buy it now with the overt or subtle threat that once something is sold out, it's not coming back in stock. It's literally a basic and longstanding business model that applies to every collector's edition, limited edition or any other product that is produced for collectors in limited quantities whether its games, comics, statues, posters, vinyl box sets or whatever. You act as though seeking to preserve digital games on disc is somehow not compatible with limited editions or making a profit. In the real world, everything isn't always black and white. Sometimes, a business or a person can have many facets and motivations and competing interests and yet they can grow and thrive.
Everything that you are posting has been discussed repeatedly on the LRG forums, Twitter, Facebook and countless other forums including this one. LRG has been very open about their belief that games need to sell out immediately and that Ebay scalpers are part of their customer base. They also believe they don't have the working capital or logistical ability to get stuck with excess copies of a game if they overprint something. It literally doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, it's their company and a number of developers support their model and the public is very receptive to it. At the end of the day, you don't like their model and you think there are better models out there being pursued by other companies. Fine. It literally doesn't matter. You're one guy with too much time on his hands who feels that businesses owe him something and that he should have the right to buy games months or years after release at a discount and if it costs the business money or they can't afford to pay the developers or their employees on time as a result, it's not your problem. You're literally the crappy customer that no business would want or need. As such, your opinion carries no weight. You don't understand how business works, you don't care about the people whose lives may be impacted by your desire for a race to the bottom on pricing and your entire belief about an alternate model is based on anecdotal evidence from companies whose finances you have not one iota of information about and whose business model is keyed towards an entirely different market.
It's literally the height of arrogance and stupidity on your part to keep repeating the same myth that somehow if LRG didn't exist, all these other companies would rush in and release these ultra niche games. Honestly, LRG has kicked off a whole slew of new competition and ultimately, Soedesco and the others who entered the market prior to LRG will either compete and win or collapse as the market gets saturated with these releases. Frankly, consumers have plenty of choices and we should be celebrating that LRG is not only an option, but more importantly, not the only option in town.
Last edited by Bojay1997; 08-05-2017 at 02:48 AM.
For all the to do some people make of it, I can honestly say that buying from LRG has never once caused me the slightest bit of stress, and I own the majority of their catalog. Whether a game sells out in 3 minutes or 3 days, the process of buying it has been just the same for me. All that LRG brings me is the enjoyment of owning and playing physical copies of a varied assortment of games. I love collecting for Vita, and I'm at around 100 US releases now. Far more of my collection is from the likes of Atlus, Aksys, XSEED, NISA, IFI, PQube, etc., but the LRG releases on top of those are a great addition. Since I strongly prefer to buy games physically, I normally ignore most indies. All these physical releases are getting me to give them a shot and broaden my gaming horizons. I've already played through a number of LRG releases beginning to end, and I look forward to doing so with many more. I know some people only care about the collecting, even keeping them sealed, but I've opened up and popped into my Vita every LRG Vita release.
I know there are certain individuals who have stated themselves that they have never had any interest in handheld gaming. They know absolutely nothing about the state of the Western Vita market, and they entirely ignore the fact that LRG releases Vita games (which is even how they started, and Vita versions often sell out faster than the PS4 versions of the multiplatform releases). For them, they think nothing beyond "LRG releases indies and niche games on PS4, but there are other companies releasing indies and niche games on PS4 in ways that are more convenient for the customer, so why should LRG even exist?" They completely fail to understand or acknowledge that NO ONE is releasing the kinds of games and quantities of games for Vita that LRG is. As an avid Vita collector who keeps up with the news on every physical US release (which isn't hard; you can count the number each month on your fingers, and it's been that way for years), I can tell anyone the full extent of similar games being published by others in recent years: Fangamer with a whopping two releases (Shovel Knight and Undertale) and Badland Games is finally getting their act together and supposedly releasing Axiom Verge and Velocity 2X this fall. That's it. NO ONE but LRG is stepping up to the plate for physically printing less popular indies on Vita (as I said in a prior post, it doesn't get much bigger than Shovel Knight and Undertale), and NO ONE but LRG is stepping up to the plate for physically printing Japanese games on Vita that slip through the cracks like Ray Gigant and DariusBurst. Again, as someone who drinks up Vita info like a sponge, I can say with absolute full confidence, based on the knowledge I have of the Vita market in the US, that virtually all of LRG's Vita releases would still be digital-only today had LRG never existed. At best, a few would/do have Asian English versions, which tend to be more costly to import than buying an LRG release if you're in the US. The industry sees the Vita as a flop and not particularly profitable in general, so all the more, the kinds of Vita games LRG has been releasing are regarded as unprofitable under any other sales model, thus they just don't exist under other sales models. It's a very different situation from the PS4, which is a huge success. I'm not going to tell anybody else if this all is worth having to show up on LRG's site at specific times and such to buy, but for me, getting physical US Vita releases of dozens of games that would otherwise be digital-only is absolutely worth it, especially when I don't even find the process of buying stressful or difficult to begin with.
Likewise. Yesterday was the first time I missed a release I wanted, and that was because I got pulled away from my computer at 10am. Thankfully I knew I needed to be distraction free for the scheduled 6pm release.
Can you imagine some of these people trying to deal with purchasing a GDEMU, where the availability window can be equally quick - just a few minutes, but you don't even know what time the release will be, just the day?
Listen, I think it's a great service, but their approach is nonsensical. Take preorders over a 2 week window or whatever. That's it. Then at least people have a fair shot at getting a copy, AND LRG are not left with overstock. I refuse to support their dumb ass concept that inevitably leads to annoyed fans and wealthy scalpers.
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All you need to do is to go back through this thread and you will understand all of the problems your suggested approach has. Have other companies done preorders? Yes. Have they been as simple and successful as you seem to believe they would be? Not even close. I'm still waiting for the latest Gaijinworks game that I paid for nine months ago. LRG is getting daily grief from people waiting for their Skullgirls preorders. Fangamer did unlimited preorders with Undertale, but if you preordered after the first couple of days, you got an estimated delivery date literally months after the initial batch. I guarantee they are going to get nasty e-mails if there is even a day of delay on the initial batch given that they have charged already.
LR should sell games the normal way, truly providing a service for gamers and collectors, just a normal retail route like many other small publishers do which put the same kind of games on physical disc.
Pre-order would be a slightly better way than the TV-shopping-channel approach wth very small sales windows.
Play Asia does it with pre-orders and it worked very well. Blue Rider, Cursed Castilla EX and Ghost Blade HD sold very well and we got great games through pre-orders. Not everyone is like Gajinworks.
I respect that. Everybody should vote with their wallet, supporting what they like and not supporting what they don't. I'm just saying that I'm one repeated customer who has never felt stressed or annoyed with the buying process (I have been annoyed by some of their other decisions and actions, but I could say the same for literally every game publisher), and I've never had to line the pockets of scalpers to get the LRG games I want. So it's not an objectively bad shopping experience, and I don't think anybody should be scared or hesitant to buy if they are interested, assuming that they'll definitely be left feeling stressed out and frustrated.
Strongly agree on all counts.
It's not their model and there are already plenty of companies that do exactly that. Not every business has to be run the way you think it should be run. Also, Play Asia wasn't a preorder at all. They had a quantity already printed and simply allowed people who signed up in advance to buy the game during a window (aka adding one more exclusionary step beyond LRG). The only reason Play Asia seemed easier is that there is far less demand for Asian region versions of games and frankly, some of Play Asia's games were nichey to a degree that a lot of gamers and collectors weren't interested. You also seem remarkably okay with their attempt to make a regular retail release in Aerea into a collector's edition by adding some crappy cards to the set and charging a premium. Not sure why your beloved Soedesco allowed them to do that.LR should sell games the normal way, truly providing a service for gamers and collectors, just a normal retail route like many other small publishers do which put the same kind of games on physical disc.
Pre-order would be a slightly better way than the TV-shopping-channel approach wth very small sales windows.
Play Asia does it with pre-orders and it worked very well. Blue Rider, Cursed Castilla EX and Ghost Blade HD sold very well and we got great games through pre-orders. Not everyone is like Gajinworks.
??? tools making $5-$20 on their handful if not singular extra copies? lol.
Same time i bought a copy of wonderboy.Missed out on buying it's first batch for 10:00 so i luck out buying a copy at 6:00.I was expecting the game to sell so quickly either.Still,typical LRG not taking into account for demand and hyping it's sale.I just went with the regular edition of wonderboy i don't need the CE one.
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