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Thread: Limited Run Games (producing physical copies of digital games)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post

    Look, it is actually pretty easy, we don't need sideshows and distractions and questionable reasoning. Just answer this one Q:


    Which of the following two businessmodels do you prefer as a gamer and collector? 1) the Limited Run model which gives gamers and collectors limited accessibilty (ten minutes to 24 hours) to get games for retail price, and later on to get these games as a rule for 50% to 600% the retail price on ebay. (Mind you, ebay scalping clearly is part of the businessmodel as LR itself demonstrated); 2) Let's call it the Soedesco-model of so many smaller publishers which publish games of smaller developers and/or so far only digital on physical disc like Limited Run and just sell it, no marketing with limited numbers and rarity hype, access for months and years for retail price and cheaper than the retail price as a rule.


    You avoided answering the Q so far by pointing to LR or the other publishers individually, but never answered the Q about the comparison of the two models.


    Limited Run could do it for PS4 games (and the Vita!) like the other small publishers do. No problem there. But their model is risk-minimizing at the cost of consumers. Why doesn't LR publish Vita games without this rarity nonsense?


    That the second model works is obvious. It isn't an utopian model in an ideal fantasy world. The proof is in the pudding, otherwise Soedesco and many others would not publish more games than ever and would have gone bankrupt years ago. If you look at the DP-list of games of indie/small developers physical releases it is obvious that Limited Run aren't the holy knights in shiny armor who provide us with water in a desert. On the contrary, we are flooded with these games in the meantime.


    Play Asia and Reserve Games (or whatever their name is) step in the same murky water in the meantime like LR. It is nonsense except for Limited Run itself. To euphemistically sell this nonsense as a service to gamers and collectors takes a lot of chuzpe.
    It appears you didn't review any of his previous posts prior to generating your wall of text. He already explained that most of us would prefer unlimited retail runs of PS4 and Vita games. Unfortunately, there is no company out there willing to take the financial risk and potential bankruptcy that comes with pursuing that approach, especially when you consider how many games LRG has already released. Unless you work for Soedesco and have access to their financials, your claim that they are financially viable is pure speculation. Indeed, Soedesco is not a US company and may be receiving government subsidies or perhaps they are funded by individuals who don't care about profit. If the model is so viable, why hasn't Soedesco increased their release frequency or added Vita games to the US releases?

    Bottom line, LRG is pursuing a particular business model that allows them to release a ton of games, many of which other publishers would never even consider because of their niche appeal, at generally reasonable prices. It does mean that collectors who care about obtaining the physical copies need to plan ahead a bit and actually spend a minute on their phone or computer every few weeks to order the games. If gamers miss the window, all of these games are available digitally, so there is no reason to claim that LRG is somehow preventing gamers and collectors from enjoying these games.

    I have a coupl questions for you. Have you ever run a successful business? Do you have any understanding of the retail and physical games market in this age where digital is becoming dominant by the day? I suspect the answer to both questions is "no", but I remain curious as to your answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Unfortunately, there is no company out there willing to take the financial risk and potential bankruptcy that comes with pursuing that approach, especially when you consider how many games LRG has already released.
    That's PR-babble of LR and what is even worse it is ignoring reality, that means ignoring tons of smaller developers which prove otherwise. Just take a look at the publishers of these NTSC and PAL games and then tell me that noone takes a risk and the majority of them are on the edge of bankruptcy. THQ Nordic, 505 games, Badland, Soedesco and so many others?

    https://forum.digitpress.com/forum/s...sical-releases

    Noone did explain to me so far why Limited Run is forced to do the rarity-hype-model in order to prevent bankruptcy while lots of other small publishers manage to be obviously successful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Indeed, Soedesco is not a US company and may be receiving government subsidies or perhaps they are funded by individuals who don't care about profit.
    , are you serious? I am from Germany, and I know our friends from the neighboring state of the Netherlands very well. (We are friends unless it comes to soccer) I know that we Europeans are wonderful people and far superior morally to the rest of the world, but I can assure you that usually game companies don't get government subsidies (geez luiz) and that we Germans and the people from the Netherlands are as profit-oriented, stingy and cheap bastards as the rest of the world.Btw, here is an interesting article about the two guys owning Soedesco in Rotterdam, they had the mission to publish smaller games on physical disc and founded the company before Limited Run was founded. Imagine that! And all of that without the Limited Run-nonsense and Limited Run-hassle.

    http://www.nisute.com/2015/05/08/a-d...d-of-soedesco/

    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Bottom line, LRG is pursuing a particular business model that allows them to release a ton of games, many of which other publishers would never even consider because of their niche appeal, at generally reasonable prices.
    That's Limited Run PR-babble, and Limited Run wanted Axiom Verge desperately but Badland Games got it. That's how desperate certain developers are in the meantime.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    If gamers miss the window, all of these games are available digitally, so there is no reason to claim that LRG is somehow preventing gamers and collectors from enjoying these games.
    Seriously? First, I never claimed that. Second, isn't the entire purpose of smaller publishers to offer these games on PHYSICAL DISC and in particular in the case of Limited Run to serve this way our community by limiting the production number? Collectors want physical, not digital. If you refer to the possibility of digital content, then Limited Run is anyway obsolete.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I have a coupl questions for you. Have you ever run a successful business? Do you have any understanding of the retail and physical games market in this age where digital is becoming dominant by the day? I suspect the answer to both questions is "no", but I remain curious as to your answers.
    No and yes. No, I never had a successful business (or an unsuccessful one) and don't intend to found one. Yes, I am aware that games (and more media) are distributed digitally. However, I wonder what this has to do with my criticism of Limited Run.
    Last edited by lendelin; 06-22-2017 at 08:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celerystalker View Post
    That's kind of the whole deal, though... it's not about what's good for us. It's about a successful business model, which offers at least a few perks for players. Their goal is to keep customers happy enough to keep spending money. They may even have some good intentions; that's an individual-by-individual situation. However, altruism is secondary at best in business.
    I see it from a gamers perspective. I have no horse in the Limited Run stable. That their business model is successful is exactly my concern because it might force other smaller publishers to delve in the same nonsense. Not everything successful makes sense and is good for gamers and collectors. The Wii mote was a catastrophe for gameplay but incredibly successful, still, I called it what it was, a marketing gimmick and awful from a gameplay standpoint.

    I certainly don't demand altruism from a game company, I don't live in lala-land! I'm not altruistic when I hit the order button, and the game industry was from the beginning about money. But I can clearly see what's good for me and can clearly see that there are different ways to make a profit.
    Last edited by lendelin; 06-22-2017 at 09:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    I see it from a gamers perspective. I have no horse in the Limited Run stable. That their business model is successful is exactly my concern because it might force other smaller publishers to delve in the same nonsense. Not everything successful makes sense and is good for gamers and collectors. The Wii mote was a catastrophe for gameplay but incredibly successful, still, I called it what it was, a marketing gimmick and awful from a gameplay standpoint.

    I certainly don't demand altruism from a game company, I don't live in lala-land! I'm not altruistic when I hit the order button, and the game industry was from the beginning about money. But I can clearly see what's good for me and can clearly see that there are different ways to make a profit.
    I'm impartial to LRG. I haven't bought any of their releases. I just don't blame them for finding a business model that's successful for them. I don't like a lot of trends, but LRG's business model doesn't bother me a ton because, while inconvenient, it doesn't infringe on my right to enjoy games I've paid for in the future or anything like DRM and digital-only purchases. So, while I have no love or loyalty for them at all, I'm just not upset that they've tried a new business model thatworks. These sorts of things happen, and changes are necessary for physical media retail to remain viable. Companies that don't adapt fail. There will be a time that, for whatever reason, LRG's way of business will no longer work, and they'll have to change again or die off, and that's okay. Companies trying new ideas, though, is just smart. I'm not against those other publishers you mentioned, either. I hope they all continue to find ways to stay relevant, and what I don't like, I won't support.

    Edit: also, for those posting so vigorously but clearly barely participate around here, Aussie, one of the MOST active members, isn't a dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celerystalker View Post
    I'm impartial to LRG. I haven't bought any of their releases. I just don't blame them for finding a business model that's successful for them. I don't like a lot of trends, but LRG's business model doesn't bother me a ton because, while inconvenient, it doesn't infringe on my right to enjoy games I've paid for in the future or anything like DRM and digital-only purchases. So, while I have no love or loyalty for them at all, I'm just not upset that they've tried a new business model thatworks. These sorts of things happen, and changes are necessary for physical media retail to remain viable. Companies that don't adapt fail. There will be a time that, for whatever reason, LRG's way of business will no longer work, and they'll have to change again or die off, and that's okay. Companies trying new ideas, though, is just smart. I'm not against those other publishers you mentioned, either. I hope they all continue to find ways to stay relevant, and what I don't like, I won't support.

    Edit: also, for those posting so vigorously but clearly barely participate around here, Aussie, one of the MOST active members, isn't a dude.
    Well, other companies adapt without going the limited production number route with rarity hype. There is no economic necessity to do that. Lots of smaller publishers do physical releases and they deserve praise, Limited Run does not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    Well, other companies adapt without going the limited production number route with rarity hype. There is no economic necessity to do that. Lots of smaller publishers do physical releases and they deserve praise, Limited Run does not.
    I agree that it's not universally a necessity. It's not about that. The important thing is that it works for them. If enough people tire of it, it'll fail eventually. If enough people support it, it floats. They're trying something new, and as the people risking the capital, it's their right to do so, and it's ours to vote with our money. I have no problem at all with your dislike of LRG's method. I'm not wild about it from a consumer standpoint. However, I can also admire that they've done something very special as a business that is spot on for the times from a business standpoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    It appears you didn't review any of his previous posts prior to generating your wall of text.
    That.

    I already answered all of your questions quite clearly, lendelin. And if your initial intention was to not respond, then you would've been better off sticking with that. I have zero intention of continuing a clearly fruitless back and forth, especially when you begin to resort to insults. From my perspective, it is you who are behaving irrational and nonsensical, with the extent to which you are so offended by and afraid of LRG. And it is your reasoning that is based on half-truths at best, complete misinformation at worst. I mean, the whole basis of your last post is this claim that the "vast majority of the games [sell] for 50% up to 600% more expensive" on the secondhand market, but this is patently false, which has been pointed out and explained to you time and time again. At this point, I'm entirely convinced that you have never looked at the values on the secondhand market for any of LRG's titles past the first three. The couple games I mentioned were examples, not the exceptions, and I'm not about to do your homework for you, listing every title and its current secondhand value. And this is just one example of all the facts you continue to ignore, and even claim otherwise about. On top of that, you continue to twist words. I think you're smart enough to realize that when I said that one "shouldn't collect in the first place", I was referring specifically to collecting a full LRG set, with an obsessive-compulsive need to maintain that set, but without the means to do so. In other words, I'm saying that obsessive-compulsive tendencies shouldn't be encouraged if that's a problem for the person in question, especially if those tendencies will lead them to emotional or financial harm. It is absolutely absurd to twist my words such that you'd suggest I mean one shouldn't buy or collect any games unless they have the financial means of you or I.

    So to wrap this response up, I suggest you reread what's been said earlier and try to set aside the indignation you feel toward LRG, because clearly it is blinding you from properly absorbing the facts and statements that have been presented to you. In lieu of that, just ignore this thread? I'm sorry if it offends you that this topic is here and that myself and others buy from them, but you have made zero dent in my intention to continue my buying from and posting about LRG.

    On that note, my apologies to anyone who may value my updates regarding LRG's releases going up for sale. I had a very busy day and barely had the time to buy DariusBurst at 10am. A sizeable amount of DariusBurst for Vita is apparently still available (funny after the rapid sale of the PS4 version). Maybe the double standard in pricing put a lot of people off. I know it did to me, though I still bought it anyway. (Which makes it funny that I'm accused of being like a "spokesperson" for LRG when I've been a very vocal critic of their pricing of the versions of DariusBurst, to the point that people are defending LRG from me on other forums.) Furi was sold out, but I've noticed that it was opened back up with a few more copies (I guess cancelled orders), so have at it fast. Like Strafe, I'm passing on Furi myself.
    Last edited by Aussie2B; 06-24-2017 at 12:24 AM.

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    Fully agree that this is certainly a fruitless discussion and I certainly have no intention to continue it (although I'm not so sure who of us is a bit blindsided and misperceives reality and the facts presented).

    However, I cannot accept the claim in your uppish response that I resorted to insults. I never do, and I certainly didn't in this discussion. Your skin might be a bit thin when someone disagrees with you and presents a resonable opinion, but I never insulted you once. This is important to me. Otherwise, please let me know how I insulted you and I will apologize.

    To end this on a good note I'd like to thank you for your sensible and intelligent approach of my deepest motivations to post in this thread, namely your understanding of me being offended by this thread, offended by and afraid of LRG, and offended by you and others buying the games from LRG. Until now I didn't realize how easily others are able to offend me.
    Last edited by lendelin; 06-24-2017 at 03:25 AM.

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    No intention to continue it yet you respond to get in some more jabs?

    You called me "nonsensical", "arrogant", and said that I had "bottom of the barrel" reasoning. They may be highbrow insults, but insults nonetheless. And now we can add "uppish" to the list. You even likened my reasoning to defending drunk drivers (and thus likening LRG's business practices to drunk drivers), which is pretty disgusting and offensive to anyone who has suffered because of drunk driving.

    Fine, take offense at the suggestion that you're behaving offended by LRG and anyone who has the audacity to buy from them and appreciate the opportunity to buy these games physically. I'm just calling your behavior as I see it, and since you started with all the character judgments and what have you, it seems to be fair play to me.

    ANYWAY, I just received Deemo and Broken Age in the mail, and I'm looking forward to popping both in my Vita later. Considering there is no publisher releasing these kinds of games physically in the US on Vita (outside of Fangamer, which will be at a whopping two games after Undertale), I'm confident that these would have never been released physically on Vita in the US without LRG, so I'm pretty happy and thankful to have them in my hands. I almost bought the Asian English version of Deemo a while back too, so I'm glad to have the opportunity to get it cheaper than through importing.
    Last edited by Aussie2B; 06-24-2017 at 04:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    No intention to continue it yet you respond to get in some more jabs?
    You set the example in your last post and delivered a lot of jabs encouriging me to ignore this thread, I did the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    You called me "nonsensical", "arrogant", and said that I had "bottom of the barrel" reasoning. They may be highbrow insults, but insults nonetheless. And now we can add "uppish" to the list. You even likened my reasoning to defending drunk drivers (and thus likening LRG's business practices to drunk drivers), which is pretty disgusting and offensive to anyone who has suffered because of drunk driving.
    You are easily insulted. I told you that your reasoning is nonsense, that's not an insult, that's an evaluation of your reasoning. Same goes for my evaluation that you hit the bottom of the reasoning-barrel. I showed you why, and I think almost everyone who read it (my drunk driver analogy) will agree. At least I didn't hear something from you against it. (Admit it, it wasn't the smartest thing to say, I admittedly took advantage of it.) I said that your attitude when it comes to the limited means of gamers is "PRETTY arrogant," if you feel insulted by that then you are easily insulted indeed.

    People who suffered from drunk driving? Come on, now you are playing the sensitivity card. That's just plain nonsense. (!!) I lost my cousin nine years ago in a car accident in Germany due to a drunk driver, do you think I insulted myself?


    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    Fine, take offense at the suggestion that you're behaving offended by LRG and anyone who has the audacity to buy from them ... I'm just calling your behavior as I see it, and since you started with all the character judgments and what have you, it seems to be fair play to me.
    Your last post is indeed 'uppish' and arrogant and actually was the only motivation to respond. (see below) If these are all terrible character judgements (the only ones, btw) which offended you, then I think you have to live with it.

    In your last post you wrote

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    And it is your reasoning that is based on half-truths at best, complete misinformation at worst. I mean, the whole basis of your last post is this claim that the "vast majority of the games [sell] for 50% up to 600% more expensive" on the secondhand market, but this is patently false, which has been pointed out and explained to you time and time again. At this point, I'm entirely convinced that you have never looked at the values on the secondhand market for any of LRG's titles past the first three. The couple games I mentioned were examples, not the exceptions, and I'm not about to do your homework for you, listing every title and its current secondhand value. And this is just one example of all the facts you continue to ignore, and even claim otherwise about.
    Since you acted like a HS teacher treating a small child suggesting that I just don't see reality despite you taught me otherwise over and over again, I actually followed your advise and did my "homework." It seems, that you didn't make your homework.

    I checked on pricecharting.com every single released Limited Run game for ebay prices, was very easy and pretty fast. I excluded Dariusburst for the PS4 (for Vita anyway) becasue of the high retail price.

    Result: The average price for all the LR games (new, PS4 and Vita) is $52.84. Let's assume the average price on LR was $25 (some are $20, some $25, some $30, right?), this is more than 100 percent profit margin for ebay sellers. That's really good and more than I expected. Sure, there are games which can be still had for $30 (Thomas Was Alone, Mystery Chronicle were the cheapest) and some others for a bit over $30 (The Swapper on Vita, The Swindle on Vita) but these are the EXCEPTIONS (not the rule like you suggested due to a lack of knowledge).

    You get a lot more on ebay than purchased from LR.

    My careful estimate was also correct, as a matter of fact, the empirical check shows that my estimate was too conservative.

    According to your own logic my entire post also stands since, according to you, the whole basis for it was my estimate for the games on ebay. (which is actually not true) It wasn't "patently" false as you claimed. It seems that you bragged with knowledge which turned out to be false. (Lesson learned: Never accuse others of ignorant non-knowledge unless you TRULY know better)

    However, I also checked the average price for the second half of the games since you and I know that the first twenty of these games are expensive compared to the later games (Breach and Clear $216, Oddworld New.. $140 and $149 for the PS4 and Vita, and Saturday Morning RPG (PS4) $135 and $84 (Vita). (I'm never out to just underline my pre-conceived beliefs.)

    As I expected and you assumed correctly also, the prices decreased dramatically. From $52.84 to $36.03. The reasons are obvious. However, with an average new LR price of $25 this is still a price increase of 44% on average thanks to ebay and the limited number production. Not as bad as it was, but still very profitable for ebay scalpers.

    It might be that your view got skewed by focusing on the cheapest of the cheapest and that it seemed to get better as it actually is compared to the starting point; because the LR games are still an ebay sellers profitable market!

    I suggest you check the prices for yourself and correct me if necessary. Used to complex statistics and datasets with a bit more than around sixty cases I know that even a couple of mistakes are neglectible! (will be always over $51)

    But you see, this is actually not important. This is not the crux of the whole issue. I only checked the prices for the LR games because you (pretty arrogantly, if I might say) claimed that I am just an ignorant guy who is so full of bad feelings towards LR that I ignore reality.

    There is only one Q, and I didn't get an answer so far: While a lot of small publishers sell their games in a traditional way and are successful, why does Limited Run has to resort to sell their games with rarity hype with the underlying tone 'Go get it now before you pay much more on ebay'?

    Noone gave me so far an answer. When I first critisized LR, the answer was 'Well, in this day and age and digital content that is the only way.' When I pointed to a lot of other small publishers which do the same, the answer was 'Well, but they face difficult times and hardly survive.' When I pointed out that these publishers do obviously well since they increased dramatically the published games in the last two to three years, the answer was 'Well, without Limited Run we would get fewer games and even no Vita games at all.' Which is all trivial, and still no answer to the Q why Limited Run can only survive this way while other survive well without.

    My opinion stands. Limited Run sets a very bad precedent, and the way they sell games is good for Limited Run and truly bad for gamers and colllectors.

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    The answer to your question is simply that LRG's purpose as a business isn't just to stay afloat and survive; it's to be as profitable as possible. Businesses have the responsibility not to just stick around, but to pile up as much money as they can while retaining customers. All of these companies across the board, above all else they do, are trying to make as much money as they can, and they're all trying different approaches. LRG's approach is clearly working for them.

    That's the bottom line. It doesn't matter if you or me or anyone else dislikes them so long as they can keep enough people buying in, and they owe us nothing. If they cross lines like Microsoft did to cause a massive groundswell against them when they announced all their DRM plans with the Xbox One, they'll lose faith. As long as they can keep that target 5000 or so people happy, which in this industry is an entirely reasonable and achievable goal, they'll keep piling up cash, and that's okay, because that's their job.

    You're asking the wrong question in the first place here. Nobody says you're wrong not to like LRG. Where you're wrong is to expect any business to stop trying to make as much money as possible and settle for less. That's not what companies do. LRG believes that this is their most profitable, sustainable prospect. So the real question isn't "why do they have to do this." It's "why, from a company position, shouldn't they?"

    Because some people don't like it?

    It'd be great for me if ebay fronted all shipping costs, if Wal-Mart banned customers I don't like, and if Taco Bell gave me extra cheese for free. They don't, because even though it would be swell for me, it would be stupid for them.

    Nobody disagrees with your right to dislike these practices. Everybody disagrees that they owe it to gamers to change. The only people to which LRG owes anything at all are their debtors, employees, and their bottom line. The only thing you can hope to do is hope that more people share your views, stop buying, and that LRG is forced to yet again adapt. However, the folks with which you are arguing here are smart enough to understand that, yes, LRG is grabbing for as much money as possible, and yes, they're okay with that for the payoff it gives them. You aren't opening their eyes with new revelations that should shake their views. You're telling them what they already have come to terms with and are expecting outrage.
    Last edited by celerystalker; 06-24-2017 at 11:30 PM.

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    I like Limited Run Games, I really do. However, I've been noticing that they are now trying to squeeze in as many releases as they can, usually now every two weeks. Before, it wasn't like this.

    I believe this is because they know that the games will eventually sell. By releasing a very limited amount of copies, it almost guarantees that all copies will sell. If they were to release them via retail, sales my stagnate a bit, though it would eventually sell as well, due to the limited amount of copies. They know collectors will eat the games up as quickly as they appear, so they continue this business model. It works...for now.

    What I see as a huge "fault" is the consistency and continuity of their releases. For instace, I am getting tired of a "new release" every two weeks. It used to not be this way...perhaps every three weeks or even four. Sometimes twice a month. That was great, because it almost guarantees that I could purchase a copy. And I know many of you would appreciate this as well.

    But releasing every two weeks has become cumbersome. Just when I thought I had some time for the next release, BAM, a new release. Sigh. And being the OCD that I am, I want to get it. Others as well. But I feel that there will be a time in which people will eventually get tired of this schedule and ultimately not get every release, which in turn takes more time to sell the batch they are selling. I've noticed that lately, games have been lasting more than usual when "up" for sale. Just look at Darius for the Vita...Sunday and it's STILL available. Honestly, that was surprising for me. Granted, the hefty price doesn't help either.

    Which come to my next point...and I hope it's not one that will become a trend: the increase in price. Having games at $25-$30 was great, as they were economical. But I've noticed that certain games (not all, just the minority) have been priced higher than others, sometimes (in my opinion) way too high. Example is Darius for Vita (and the last Vita game, the Namco one). Yes, I understand that these games are from companies that probably want a higher cut and thus they need to increase the price. I just hope this doesn't start to be "the norm".

    My suggestion to LRG is to space out the releases in a way that benefits everything and not try to "milk" them every two weeks. I know many of us would be happy. Why not every three weeks? Once a month? And maybe every now and then, twice a month? Because I feel that if they continue this trend, they will loose many potential customers, or at the very least not be able to sell their inventory as they did before.

    And to try to limit the high price games. And to due away with UPS Innovations...HORRID HORRID service. I've seen complaints on their FB page...and I agree. It now takes a damn MONTH to receive their games when it used to take me less than a week. Ugh.

    And wow, Saturday Morning RPG is fetching THAT much? My brother is now considering selling his copy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by portnoyd View Post
    Jesus christ. Half the internet is truly retarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasdkirby View Post
    I like Limited Run Games, I really do. However, I've been noticing that they are now trying to squeeze in as many releases as they can, usually now every two weeks. Before, it wasn't like this.

    I believe this is because they know that the games will eventually sell. By releasing a very limited amount of copies, it almost guarantees that all copies will sell. If they were to release them via retail, sales my stagnate a bit, though it would eventually sell as well, due to the limited amount of copies. They know collectors will eat the games up as quickly as they appear, so they continue this business model. It works...for now.

    What I see as a huge "fault" is the consistency and continuity of their releases. For instace, I am getting tired of a "new release" every two weeks. It used to not be this way...perhaps every three weeks or even four. Sometimes twice a month. That was great, because it almost guarantees that I could purchase a copy. And I know many of you would appreciate this as well.

    But releasing every two weeks has become cumbersome. Just when I thought I had some time for the next release, BAM, a new release. Sigh. And being the OCD that I am, I want to get it. Others as well. But I feel that there will be a time in which people will eventually get tired of this schedule and ultimately not get every release, which in turn takes more time to sell the batch they are selling. I've noticed that lately, games have been lasting more than usual when "up" for sale. Just look at Darius for the Vita...Sunday and it's STILL available. Honestly, that was surprising for me. Granted, the hefty price doesn't help either.

    Which come to my next point...and I hope it's not one that will become a trend: the increase in price. Having games at $25-$30 was great, as they were economical. But I've noticed that certain games (not all, just the minority) have been priced higher than others, sometimes (in my opinion) way too high. Example is Darius for Vita (and the last Vita game, the Namco one). Yes, I understand that these games are from companies that probably want a higher cut and thus they need to increase the price. I just hope this doesn't start to be "the norm".

    My suggestion to LRG is to space out the releases in a way that benefits everything and not try to "milk" them every two weeks. I know many of us would be happy. Why not every three weeks? Once a month? And maybe every now and then, twice a month? Because I feel that if they continue this trend, they will loose many potential customers, or at the very least not be able to sell their inventory as they did before.

    And to try to limit the high price games. And to due away with UPS Innovations...HORRID HORRID service. I've seen complaints on their FB page...and I agree. It now takes a damn MONTH to receive their games when it used to take me less than a week. Ugh.

    And wow, Saturday Morning RPG is fetching THAT much? My brother is now considering selling his copy.

    I completely agree! The number of games released wouldn't be such a problem (except for gamers getting tired of it, and that will be a big prob) if you could get the games later for a reasonable price and cheaper than Limited Run sells them. I just got a couple of days ago Steamworld Collection (Rising Star) and Ziggurat (SOEDESCO) for $15 each! That's how I like to buy my games. I have already a lot of the games by smaller publishers, but I still have a list in Word which is almost two pages.

    But with this LR-sales model (rarity hype plus ebay scalping) this possibility is more than slim. There are so many games out there by smaller publishers that the two games a month-cycle of LR stresses the budget of gamers; and then imagine others copy this sales model because they have to adapt and it cuts severely into their business.

    Ghost Blade HD will be very soon on sale by Play Asia. A Play Asia exclusive limited to 3000 COPIES WORLDWIDE! Incredible. Ghost Blade HD will also be published sometime by LR, it is scheduled already, probably limited to 4000 COPIES WORLDWIDE. Incredible! Maybe Special Reserve Games will give us a cover variation of 1000 copies of Ghost Blade HD (WORLDWIDE, of course).

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    I have to correct myself. Some might find the following sticklish but it just bothers me when I was incorrect and a bit off to my advantage.

    I stated originally that the "vast majority(!) of LR games fetch on ebay 50% to 600% more of the original LR-price." I checked the numbers again and I can't say that the term 'vast majority' is correct. In reality 75% (43) of the total games I checked (58) sell for plus 50% of the original LR price. 25% do not. 75% can't be called a 'vast majority'.

    I apologize for that.

    However, it can be said that a vast majority of LR games, namely 85%, sell for more than 40% (!) of the original LR price, up to 600%; latter is of course Breach and Clear.

    I was surprised how much this sales model drives the prices up. Even more recent releases like Ray Gigant ($45), Astebreed ($48) or Flinthook ($42) cost some money and get some profit on ebay.

    Higher in demand games just skyrocket under this model. A good example is Shantae Pirate's Curse although it was certainly not an early release. For the Nintendo 3DS it is $24, the Limited Run game for the PS4 is $109 (!), the PS4 regular release Shantae Half Genie Hero is $33. (the latter is a GREAT game, btw; buy it if you love platformers with a Metroid-like twist).

    It seems that Limited Run Games itself was absolutely correct and gave great advice in their recent email about 'Strafe': "The standard version of the game sold out several weeks ago and is already fetching several times the original retail price on secondary markets. (...) - head over to our site now and grab a copy!"
    Last edited by lendelin; 06-25-2017 at 09:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasdkirby View Post
    I like Limited Run Games, I really do. However, I've been noticing that they are now trying to squeeze in as many releases as they can, usually now every two weeks. Before, it wasn't like this.

    I believe this is because they know that the games will eventually sell. By releasing a very limited amount of copies, it almost guarantees that all copies will sell. If they were to release them via retail, sales my stagnate a bit, though it would eventually sell as well, due to the limited amount of copies. They know collectors will eat the games up as quickly as they appear, so they continue this business model. It works...for now.

    What I see as a huge "fault" is the consistency and continuity of their releases. For instace, I am getting tired of a "new release" every two weeks. It used to not be this way...perhaps every three weeks or even four. Sometimes twice a month. That was great, because it almost guarantees that I could purchase a copy. And I know many of you would appreciate this as well.

    But releasing every two weeks has become cumbersome. Just when I thought I had some time for the next release, BAM, a new release. Sigh. And being the OCD that I am, I want to get it. Others as well. But I feel that there will be a time in which people will eventually get tired of this schedule and ultimately not get every release, which in turn takes more time to sell the batch they are selling. I've noticed that lately, games have been lasting more than usual when "up" for sale. Just look at Darius for the Vita...Sunday and it's STILL available. Honestly, that was surprising for me. Granted, the hefty price doesn't help either.

    Which come to my next point...and I hope it's not one that will become a trend: the increase in price. Having games at $25-$30 was great, as they were economical. But I've noticed that certain games (not all, just the minority) have been priced higher than others, sometimes (in my opinion) way too high. Example is Darius for Vita (and the last Vita game, the Namco one). Yes, I understand that these games are from companies that probably want a higher cut and thus they need to increase the price. I just hope this doesn't start to be "the norm".

    My suggestion to LRG is to space out the releases in a way that benefits everything and not try to "milk" them every two weeks. I know many of us would be happy. Why not every three weeks? Once a month? And maybe every now and then, twice a month? Because I feel that if they continue this trend, they will loose many potential customers, or at the very least not be able to sell their inventory as they did before.

    And to try to limit the high price games. And to due away with UPS Innovations...HORRID HORRID service. I've seen complaints on their FB page...and I agree. It now takes a damn MONTH to receive their games when it used to take me less than a week. Ugh.

    And wow, Saturday Morning RPG is fetching THAT much? My brother is now considering selling his copy.
    LRG's pricing has been explained a few times, but it's essentially the digital price plus $10. That seems reasonable to me for a physical copy of a game with case and cover insert. It's true that there have been a greater proportion above the $25 price point recently, but that's been mostly because they have released some titles that were higher profile from larger developers. With regard to the release schedule, LRG has indicated that they plan to slow it down as soon as they work through the titles they signed for 2017. Personally, I am happy with the twice monthly schedule and would rather they keep up the volume, but I think they understand the market can only sustain so much and the greater number of competitors will eat into their sales going forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    I completely agree! The number of games released wouldn't be such a problem (except for gamers getting tired of it, and that will be a big prob) if you could get the games later for a reasonable price and cheaper than Limited Run sells them. I just got a couple of days ago Steamworld Collection (Rising Star) and Ziggurat (SOEDESCO) for $15 each! That's how I like to buy my games. I have already a lot of the games by smaller publishers, but I still have a list in Word which is almost two pages.

    But with this LR-sales model (rarity hype plus ebay scalping) this possibility is more than slim. There are so many games out there by smaller publishers that the two games a month-cycle of LR stresses the budget of gamers; and then imagine others copy this sales model because they have to adapt and it cuts severely into their business.

    Ghost Blade HD will be very soon on sale by Play Asia. A Play Asia exclusive limited to 3000 COPIES WORLDWIDE! Incredible. Ghost Blade HD will also be published sometime by LR, it is scheduled already, probably limited to 4000 COPIES WORLDWIDE. Incredible! Maybe Special Reserve Games will give us a cover variation of 1000 copies of Ghost Blade HD (WORLDWIDE, of course).
    If everyone waits to buy small publisher games until the price drops well below MSRP like you did, the small publishers will collapse. Businesses are in business to make money, not to sell you goods at a sharp discount so you can feel good about saving money. If you like to buy your games at a discount, that's fine. You just won't be able to do that with LRG or most of their competitors because selling games below MSRP in a small print run is not possible when the model depends on paying the developer up front and the printing and replication costs are basically fixed.

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    Ghost Blade HD is going to be released by LRG as well? It better have the same awesome features if they wish to sell it at the $30 or $25 price. Im after the Play Asia version, since it has more stuff for the same price. This may be the first LRG I may pass on (since I hope to get it through Play Asia).

    Speaking of which, when is it supposed to be available live? I gave my email and nothing for now.

    I Think it sold out...I NEVER got an email from them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by portnoyd View Post
    Jesus christ. Half the internet is truly retarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasdkirby View Post
    Ghost Blade HD is going to be released by LRG as well? It better have the same awesome features if they wish to sell it at the $30 or $25 price. Im after the Play Asia version, since it has more stuff for the same price. This may be the first LRG I may pass on (since I hope to get it through Play Asia).

    Speaking of which, when is it supposed to be available live? I gave my email and nothing for now.

    I Think it sold out...I NEVER got an email from them.
    I never had problems with them. Pre-order for Ghost Blade HD starts on June 27th, 11am Honkong Time. They haven't sent an email yet, if you are on the pre-order email list you'll get one.

    Unfortunately, Play Asia copies now with a couple of games the LR-nonsense. Dariusburst was a regular release, even a bit cheaper than the game from LR, but Cursed Castilla EX and Blue Rider (which I both wanted and bought), were sold in a similar way. I liked them more w/o the limited production numbers business. At least the entire company is not centered around this sales-model.
    Last edited by lendelin; 06-26-2017 at 02:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    If everyone waits to buy small publisher games until the price drops well below MSRP like you did, the small publishers will collapse. Businesses are in business to make money, not to sell you goods at a sharp discount so you can feel good about saving money. If you like to buy your games at a discount, that's fine. You just won't be able to do that with LRG or most of their competitors because selling games below MSRP in a small print run is not possible when the model depends on paying the developer up front and the printing and replication costs are basically fixed.
    You and others stress always that LR is a business which tries (like every business since ancient times, and I always accepted that) to optimize their profit and are in it for the money, and now you demand from ME altruism? As a consumer I'm part of the business cycle, and I'm not allowed to be as egotistical as Limited Run? I'm for profit optimization and cost reduction too -- my own! They are not a charity organization, neither am I.

    The games drop in price sometime after release, that's normal. I don't know the details of the contracts between smaller publishers and smaller developers, neither do you. It is not my task to do their cost calculation and deal with the eternal enemy of every business -- unpredictability. If Limited Run, Soedesco, Maximum Games and all the other small publishers can't get their cost calculation right afetr some years of experience, they should get and will get out of business. I can only evaluate their businessmodel and open my wallet accordingly.

    Besides, I bought this console generation already a lot of games for new retail prices, for my taste too many. Overall, the game industry and smaller publishers earned a lot of money with my purchases since 1988, and also certainly in the last three years.

    (PS: Never thought that I have to defend myself for getting games a bit cheaper on a gaming website.)
    Last edited by lendelin; 06-26-2017 at 02:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    You and others stress always that LR is a business which tries (like every business since ancient times, and I always accepted that) to optimize their profit and are in it for the money, and now you demand from ME altruism? As a consumer I'm part of the business cycle, and I'm not allowed to be as egotistical as Limited Run? I'm for profit optimization and cost reduction too -- my own! They are not a charity organization, neither am I.

    The games drop in price sometime after release, that's normal. I don't know the details of the contracts between smaller publishers and smaller developers, neither do you. It is not my task to do their cost calculation and deal with the eternal enemy of every business -- unpredictability. If Limited Run, Soedesco, Maximum Games and all the other small publishers can't get their cost calculation right afetr some years of experience, they should get and will get out of business. I can only evaluate their businessmodel and open my wallet accordingly.

    Besides, I bought this console generation already a lot of games for new retail prices, for my taste too many. Overall, the game industry and smaller publishers earned a lot of money with my purchases since 1988, and also certainly in the last three years.

    (PS: Never thought that I have to defend myself for getting games a bit cheaper on a gaming website.)
    You don't have to do anything and as others have pointed out, you're within your rights not to support or like LRG or any other publisher. I will tell you as someone who works for a major entertainment company that used to make a signifiant share of its revenue from home video sales and video games that when consumers in large numbers wait for massive discounting or simply lose interest in a product category, that the publishers will either scale back the number of releases or simply get out of the business altogether. That's how business works. When games are discounted, the publisher generally has to give a credit or refund to the distributor who then passes that on to the retailer. Selling you a physical game at $15 makes any profit margin almost non-existent which does have a very real impact on the bottom line of everyone down the line (developer, publisher and retailer) since there are certain fixed costs (packaging, replication, shipping, inventory storage, overhead, etc...) that do not similarly get reduced.

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