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Thread: Limited Run Games (producing physical copies of digital games)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    I remember hearing them say at some point that the trading cards were to act as a replacement, since the copycat publishers were copying that as well, and they said that they had already printed cards and/or stickers for some games, so there would be a span of time when people be receiving the new trading cards and the old freebies. I just can't remember if the trading cards are intended to replace the postcards, the stickers, or both, and I have no idea if it's normal for Vita DariusBurst to not include a postcard or Bard's Gold to not include a sticker.

    The whole "Fulfilled/Unfulfilled" thing on the site doesn't seem to be reliable anymore. When I logged in today to order, it still listed my Bard's Gold order as unfulfilled, despite that I received it yesterday.
    Yes, they mentioned there is a new glitch in their system that isn't properly updating the fulfilled/unfulfilled information. Apparently the shipping manager is tasked with fixing it asap.

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    Question about Lawbreakers...is it online play only? No offline gameplay?
    Game Wants: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121467
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    Quote Originally Posted by portnoyd View Post
    Jesus christ. Half the internet is truly retarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasdkirby View Post
    Question about Lawbreakers...is it online play only? No offline gameplay?
    I'd like to know this as well. I can't find anything.

    Absolver is offline though if you're interested.

    Can Absolver be played offline? Can players choose to explore the world alone if they want?
    Absolver can be played offline, for the players who are mostly interested in discovering the game world and learning about the story. However, the core experience is really based on multiplayer, whether it's the combat or the social components, so we recommend playing online!

    http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/...ghter_absolver
    Hearsay only, but on Twitter the devs or SRG stated it was completely playable offline as well.
    Last edited by kupomogli; 07-31-2017 at 03:31 PM.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasdkirby View Post
    Question about Lawbreakers...is it online play only? No offline gameplay?
    It's online only unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    It's online only unfortunately.
    Thanks for letting me know.

    This will indeed be the first LRG game I will not get. If only it had single player mode...

    Almost lost out on Oceanhorn too...
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    Quote Originally Posted by portnoyd View Post
    Jesus christ. Half the internet is truly retarded.

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    That's why they ended up backing out of having it as part of the numbered collection. Now even the PS4 version is unnumbered, just like the PC version. They got too much backlash over how the physical medium isn't really preserving the game in this case.

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    There have been plenty of LRG releases I'm not interested in and I'm sure there will be plenty more. LRG does release stuff that I'm very thankful to have physically, but I don't need all of it.
    check out my classic gaming review site: http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/

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    Two PS4 LEs are up for sale today: Wonder Boy and LawBreakers, plus standard versions of each for those who don't want the extra goodies. The first batch of Wonder Boy sold out in the blink of an eye, but plenty of LawBreakers is still available for the time being.

    I grabbed a Wonder Boy LE, and with that, I'm done buying LRG PS4 releases until if and when they get something else belonging to a favorite series of mine (that isn't available physically on Vita or elsewhere).

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    For some reason, I have NEVER lucked out as far as buying something online that sells out within seconds. That being said, I missed out on the Wonder Boy LE. I was able to quickly grab a standard copy, so I am happy about that. I wanted the game mostly to open and play, as I don't buy LRG games with the intent of making money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mailman187666 View Post
    For some reason, I have NEVER lucked out as far as buying something online that sells out within seconds. That being said, I missed out on the Wonder Boy LE. I was able to quickly grab a standard copy, so I am happy about that. I wanted the game mostly to open and play, as I don't buy LRG games with the intent of making money.
    Yeah this was the first one I wanted and missed. I had to be away from the computer for a minute came back and missed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koa Zo View Post
    Yeah this was the first one I wanted and missed. I had to be away from the computer for a minute came back and missed it.
    I started my order process the second it went on sale and got put into one of those online "waiting lines". I don't know how people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koa Zo View Post
    Yeah this was the first one I wanted and missed. I had to be away from the computer for a minute came back and missed it.
    Don't say this too loud. According to the LR-fanbase it is the easiest thing in the world to buy their games; wherever you are in the world it just takes two minutes on your smartphone unless you live under a rock or you are imprisoned, according to them. And don't forget: There is a second batch at 6pm available, you have another one to two minutes to buy Wonderboy. Afterwards? Don't worry, this game will be available on ebay for around (my guess) $80 to $100.

    You have to understand the owners of Limited Run Games. They don't like to do it this way. They have to do it otherwise they would "endanger their livelihood." (O-tone Limited Run Games) If other companies (like Badland Games, 505 Games, Maximum Games or Soedesco) would have published the game, you could have just bought the game on Amazon or someplace else whenever it is convenient for you for months.

    The two slick owners of LR are just collectors and gamers like you and me, they have to hype in interviews their games as future rarities, slap limited production numbers on them, limit the sales window, factor in ebay scalping, and then explicitly use ebay scalping to push for sales of their products. This is great for gamers and collectors! Why? It isn't about the money, it is all about preserving digital games on physical discs. So we all have to sacrifice something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mailman187666 View Post
    I started my order process the second it went on sale and got put into one of those online "waiting lines". I don't know how people do it.
    Professional ebay scalpers find a way. The entire salesmodel is centerd about rarity hype and ebay scalping.

    As of last week, Jotun (a game which is even not yet shipped according to complaints) sold on ebay already 17 times for an average price of $62,53. This is 150% over retail price. Limited Run games are a paradise for ebay scalpers.

    Ebay scalping is bad enough, but Limited Run is an active part of it. From the start when the company was founded, Limited Run itself hyped the rarity of their releases ("the rare PS4 games of the future") AND factored in ebay scalping to sell their stock; and now they even use ebay scalping as a threat to sell their games.

    How this salesmodel is a service to us gamers and collectors is still a mystery to me. Other companies which sell digital games on disc do very well, as a matter of fact it is a growing niche market in the last two to three years. The Limited Run-way is the good old money-grabbing greed, it isn't the altruistic way of preserving digital games on discs for posterity.
    Last edited by lendelin; 08-04-2017 at 12:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mailman187666 View Post
    I started my order process the second it went on sale and got put into one of those online "waiting lines". I don't know how people do it.
    My tips are to log into your LRG account in advance (with a shipping address already tied to the account), pay with PayPal, and log into PayPal in advance too. The checkout process is then very smooth and quick. Maybe I've been lucky so far and may run into trouble eventually, but I've paid like this every time without issue (sometimes I don't even bother to log into PayPal in advance), and I've successfully ordered most of their games for at least one platform.

    Second batch usually lasts longer than the first, but not always. Worst case scenario, if you want to buy a LRG release on the secondhand market, definitely don't buy immediately after LRG sold them. For most LRG releases, that's when resale prices are at their highest, and it's essentially a preorder since you'd have to wait for the seller to receive their copy. Once everybody who bought from LRG has copies in hand, more copies are put on the market and prices usually settle down. For example the DariusBurst LE, which was another that sold out lightning fast, can now be easily bought for somewhere in the range of even less than through LRG to $25 above the LRG price. After paying for eBay fees, PayPal fees, etc., these resellers are barely making any profit at all (not that they deserve to; just stating the facts for what they are).

    I just really wish LRG, or the developers they're working with, would get the idea that print run sizes need to be bumped up. It's great to see many titles last for a whole weekend, but the ones that sell out in minutes still occur too frequently. When both Octodad and Thomas Was Alone moved 8000 total copies each without a problem, I don't think it's rocket science to conclude that, hey, maybe a game with the pedigree of Wonder Boy needs more than that in total. It's especially bad in this case because it's not like DotEmu is new to LRG. They shouldn't be nervous and overly cautious at this point. At the very least, I hope they take this as a lesson for when they finalize the Ys Origin print run sizes.

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    Wooo! Lendelin is runnin' hot. Heh heh heh.

    While I don't really collect anymore, just looking at the whole situation reminds me of the old-time hucksters standing on their soapbox to sell their snake oil or "rare items procured from deep within the Orient." It nips at that greed factor of that triggers the "gotta have it" mentality we are seeing a lot more these days. The fear of not getting the item at a good price fuels that desire. It's their mission:

    "At Limited Run Games our releases truly are limited. Once a game sells out, it will never be available from us again! We believe that as collectors and consumers you should be able to trust when we say our games are limited. They are!"

    However, this comes across as a double standard with the following, taken from the site's own "about" page, below the quote I pasted:

    "Our goal is to serve gamers and collectors by bringing physicality back to games. Please support us in this goal and try to collect the entire Limited Run Collection!"

    So how is this forced limitation serving gamers? If it gets gobbled up in minutes with some of those copies being flipped to eBay, all that serves are the "entrepeneurs".

    I'm not sure how transparent LRG is in regards as to why the releases are so limited. Is it because they are only licensed to make a very small run or are they choosing to make a small run? If it's the former, then I can see the hype train as yes, these games truly will be limited. No BS. If the latter, it just smacks of some predatory salesmanship to line some pockets and create artificial scarcity all around.

    If they have a "collector's" and "standard" version, why not make the collector's a true limited run? The extra cost of the added bonusrs add up and historically would be more acceptable as limited. Then have preorders for the standards with an amount limit, so if a particular run didn't get enough people to order, that run doesn't get made. Will people be put out with that, sure. The difference is there is a better opportunity to get one, they know that a certain amount needs to be ordered for it to be worthwhile for LRG to make the games and if it doesn't happen, then blame those that didn't buy. A bit more goodwill would be had methinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoshiM View Post
    So how is this forced limitation serving gamers?
    Depends on who you ask. I think we've all seen how petty some game collectors can be. I can't count the number of times I've seen someone get angry when a rare and/or valuable game they own gets reprinted and is suddenly less rare and valuable, especially if they paid the inflated price to get their copy. I've been seeing that since the days of, say, Final Fantasy Tactics and Xenogears getting reprints. So for those who strongly care about the rarity factor, the limits put them at ease.

    For a more roundabout way that it serves gamers, most of these are games with pretty low demand. The rarity factor draws collectors who wouldn't buy otherwise, allowing for bigger runs to sell through, allowing for the runs to be profitable enough to exist in the first place.

    Is it because they are only licensed to make a very small run or are they choosing to make a small run?
    A little of both. LRG has definitely shown to be excessively cautious as times, afraid of sitting on unsold stock. If a developer wanted a huge run that LRG had no confidence in selling through, I'm sure they'd never agree to it, partially because LRG shoulders the majority of the risk. Developers get 70% of the profits, and LRG pays them upfront. Then LRG has to sell through their stock to earn that money back plus their 30%. But it's the developer who makes the final call on print run size. I'm sure LRG makes recommendations, especially to those new to LRG, and LRG has convinced some developers to increase the print run sizes a little bit over what they originally requested, when LRG felt they were underestimating demand. Unfortunately, a widespread misconception is that LRG fully calls the shots on print run sizes.

    Then have preorders for the standards with an amount limit, so if a particular run didn't get enough people to order, that run doesn't get made. Will people be put out with that, sure. The difference is there is a better opportunity to get one, they know that a certain amount needs to be ordered for it to be worthwhile for LRG to make the games and if it doesn't happen, then blame those that didn't buy. A bit more goodwill would be had methinks.
    It'd be nice, but unfortunately, that historically hasn't worked well for games like these. What you propose is exactly what Gaijinworks has done multiple times over, and they've barely hit their minimums or failed to. Minimums that are often lower than LRG print runs. In the case of Class of Heroes 2G, which failed to meet their minimum, they still ultimately produced physical copies, but only because they increased the price point. And when all is said and done with games sold in that manner, you have fewer copies in existence than LRG runs and higher prices on the secondhand market as a result. We also have Fangamer selling in that manner (though without the minimums), but they'll only touch the biggest of the big of indies (Shovel Knight, Undertale, etc.), which still end up selling less than many LRG releases. So it boils down to: we can get more games released physically with a less-than-ideal model, or we can get a lot fewer games released physically under more convenient models. Everybody is entitled to whichever they prefer, but me, I'll always be in favor of more games getting physical releases and those physical releases getting as many copies produced as possible, even if it takes a seemingly counterintuitive system to make that happen.
    Last edited by Aussie2B; 08-04-2017 at 01:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    My tips are to log into your LRG account in advance (with a shipping address already tied to the account), pay with PayPal, and log into PayPal in advance too. The checkout process is then very smooth and quick. Maybe I've been lucky so far and may run into trouble eventually, but I've paid like this every time without issue (sometimes I don't even bother to log into PayPal in advance), and I've successfully ordered most of their games for at least one platform.

    Second batch usually lasts longer than the first, but not always. Worst case scenario, if you want to buy a LRG release on the secondhand market, definitely don't buy immediately after LRG sold them. For most LRG releases, that's when resale prices are at their highest, and it's essentially a preorder since you'd have to wait for the seller to receive their copy. Once everybody who bought from LRG has copies in hand, more copies are put on the market and prices usually settle down. For example the DariusBurst LE, which was another that sold out lightning fast, can now be easily bought for somewhere in the range of even less than through LRG to $25 above the LRG price. After paying for eBay fees, PayPal fees, etc., these resellers are barely making any profit at all (not that they deserve to; just stating the facts for what they are).

    I just really wish LRG, or the developers they're working with, would get the idea that print run sizes need to be bumped up. It's great to see many titles last for a whole weekend, but the ones that sell out in minutes still occur too frequently. When both Octodad and Thomas Was Alone moved 8000 total copies each without a problem, I don't think it's rocket science to conclude that, hey, maybe a game with the pedigree of Wonder Boy needs more than that in total. It's especially bad in this case because it's not like DotEmu is new to LRG. They shouldn't be nervous and overly cautious at this point. At the very least, I hope they take this as a lesson for when they finalize the Ys Origin print run sizes.
    Dariusburst LE cannot be had for less than original retail price (=$100). All the completed ebay auctions were way over $100, on average $161,28. You are right that prices come down over time as a general rule, it doesn't sell for $180 anymore, but buyers still have to pay realistically $130 to $140 today. This is a 30% to 40% over retail, not good for consumers. Minimum was $125, Maximum $199 from May 6th.

    But there is one important fact when looking at the LR prices for Dariusburst on ebay. The game was also sold by PlayAsia for the Vita, standard and LE for the PS4! Therefore it is an exception. Gamers had a choice and didn't depend on LR. I bought the standard game from PlayAsia even a bit cheaper than from LR, and later I bought it (the first and only one) from LR.

    BTW, the standard Dariusburst for the PS4 is $74,5 on average, one sold still for $85 today. (original retail: $60) Again, the competition by PlayAsia has to be considered, instead of paying $75 for the LR-game you can get it for $53 from PlayAsia. Instead of paying $160 for the LR-game LE, PlayAsia sells it for $110. Strange are the prices for the Vita game. I don't know the original price for the LR-game (was it $40 or $50?), but it is certainly a disappointment for ebay scalpers: On average $45,8. Strangely enough, PlayAsia sells the Vita game more expensive for $70. (Nope, just one bird doesn't make an entire summer)

    High in demand games might not go down drastically in price. Gamers still wait for it for the Shantae games. Neurovoider and Plague Road certainly, but I'd be surprised if Jotun, Oceanhorn and Wonderboy will see a significant price reduction within a year, certainly not even close to the original retail price.

    Did you ever ask yourself WHY Limited Run doesn't increase the production numbers after experiencing quick and expected sell-outs for years now like today for Wonderboy? It would be against their entire salesmodel which is based on uncertainty to get the games. It doesn't work if the supply meets the demand. The announced (!) limited production numbers re-enforce the uncertainty of getting the games and this way inflate the demand for them. If they had announced 10,000 or even 15,000 copies of Wonderboy, they wouldn't have even sold for days 5000 copies, not to mention within five minutes.

    The salesmodel works only with touted restricted production numbers which create the uncertainty of gamers and ebay-sellers that the games sell very fast and you might be too late if you don't act fast. This way they produce temporarily an inflated demand and create a guarantee that their entire production run sells out. The underlying sentence is 'grab 'em now before it is too late.' This drives the sales. The 3000 or 5000 copies of Oceanhorn without (!!) this big announcement would have lasted for months. For Wonderboy with the long-lasting prestigious game heritage in all likelihood for days, certainly not two minutes.

    This is exactly why I dislike this salesmodel: It deflates the supply and inflates the demand. Risk-minimizing for a company indeed at the cost of consumers.
    Last edited by lendelin; 08-04-2017 at 02:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoshiM View Post
    Wooo! Lendelin is runnin' hot. Heh heh heh.

    While I don't really collect anymore, just looking at the whole situation reminds me of the old-time hucksters standing on their soapbox to sell their snake oil or "rare items procured from deep within the Orient." It nips at that greed factor of that triggers the "gotta have it" mentality we are seeing a lot more these days. The fear of not getting the item at a good price fuels that desire. It's their mission:

    "At Limited Run Games our releases truly are limited. Once a game sells out, it will never be available from us again! We believe that as collectors and consumers you should be able to trust when we say our games are limited. They are!"

    However, this comes across as a double standard with the following, taken from the site's own "about" page, below the quote I pasted:

    "Our goal is to serve gamers and collectors by bringing physicality back to games. Please support us in this goal and try to collect the entire Limited Run Collection!"

    So how is this forced limitation serving gamers? If it gets gobbled up in minutes with some of those copies being flipped to eBay, all that serves are the "entrepeneurs".

    I'm not sure how transparent LRG is in regards as to why the releases are so limited. Is it because they are only licensed to make a very small run or are they choosing to make a small run? If it's the former, then I can see the hype train as yes, these games truly will be limited. No BS. If the latter, it just smacks of some predatory salesmanship to line some pockets and create artificial scarcity all around.

    If they have a "collector's" and "standard" version, why not make the collector's a true limited run? The extra cost of the added bonusrs add up and historically would be more acceptable as limited. Then have preorders for the standards with an amount limit, so if a particular run didn't get enough people to order, that run doesn't get made. Will people be put out with that, sure. The difference is there is a better opportunity to get one, they know that a certain amount needs to be ordered for it to be worthwhile for LRG to make the games and if it doesn't happen, then blame those that didn't buy. A bit more goodwill would be had methinks.
    Hi Yoshi, old friend!! Yep, when I think of Limited Run, I'm running hot indeed.

    Nah, what really bothers me is the hyppocrisy of these two slick owners. I read about 5 interviews with them, they know exactly what they are doing, and then they state always that it is only about preserving digital games on physical disc. They act like museum directors. When asked about their salesmodel (which happened only once with critical journalists and youtubers nowadays) they immediately stress it is about preserving digital games and that they still have their Ducktales.

    It irks me that these guys build up such a great rep while other companies do great jobs in producing digital games on physical disc and sell it in a honest and decent way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    Dariusburst LE cannot be had for less than original retail price (=$100). All the completed ebay auctions were way over $100, on average $161,28. You are right that prices come down over time as a general rule, it doesn't sell for $180 anymore, but buyers still have to pay realistically $130 to $140 today. This is a 30% to 40% over retail, not good for consumers. Minimum was $125, Maximum $199 from May 6th.

    But there is one important fact when looking at the LR prices for Dariusburst on ebay. The game was also sold by PlayAsia for the Vita, standard and LE for the PS4! Therefore it is an exception. Gamers had a choice and didn't depend on LR. I bought the standard game from PlayAsia even a bit cheaper than from LR, and later I bought it (the first and only one) from LR.

    BTW, the standard Dariusburst for the PS4 is $74,5 on average, one sold still for $85 today. (original retail: $60) Again, the competition by PlayAsia has to be considered, instead of paying $75 for the LR-game you can get it for $53 from PlayAsia. Instead of paying $160 for the LR-game LE, PlayAsia sells it for $110. Strange are the prices for the Vita game. I don't know the original price for the LR-game (was it $40 or $50?), but it is certainly a disappointment for ebay scalpers: On average $45,8. Strangely enough, PlayAsia sells the Vita game more expensive for $70. (Nope, just one bird doesn't make an entire summer)

    High in demand games might not go down drastically in price. Gamers still wait for it for the Shantae games. Neurovoider and Plague Road certainly, but I'd be surprised if Jotun, Oceanhorn and Wonderboy will see a significant price reduction within a year, certainly not even close to the original retail price.

    Did you ever ask yourself WHY Limited Run doesn't increase the production numbers after experiencing quick and expected sell-outs for years now like today for Wonderboy? It would be against their entire salesmodel which is based on uncertainty. It doesn't work if the supply meets the demand. The announced (!) limited production numbers re-enforce the uncertainty and this way inflate the demand. If they had announced 10,000 or even 15,000 copies of Wonderboy, they wouldn't have even sold for days 5000 copies, not to mention within five minutes.

    The salesmodel works only with touted restricted production numbers which create the uncertainty of gamers and ebay-sellers that the games sell very fast. This way they produce an inflated demand and create a guarantee that their entire production run sells out. The underlying sentence is 'grab 'em now before it is too late.' This drives the sales. The 3000 or 5000 copies of Oceanhorn without (!!) this big announcement would have lasted for months. For Wonderboy with the long-lasting prestigious game heritage in all likelihood for days, certainly not two minutes.

    This is exactly why I dislike this salesmodel: It deflates the supply and inflates the demand. Risk-minimizing for a company indeed at the cost of consumers.
    I thought you said you were done with responding? Looks like you found the time to post three more troll posts with the same bitching and whining today. Can you imagine how successful you would be if you took all that time and energy and put it into something that actually mattered? We get it, you dislike the LRG sales model. Apparently you have now admitted that you are a giant hypocrite and did in fact buy Darius from both Play Asia and LRG. How about just giving it a rest like you said you were going to do?

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    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Limited-Edit...-/182634829132

    There's a brand new copy of the LRG DariusBurst LE that sold for $102.50 shipped about a month ago. Not a BIN either, just where regular bidding brought the price to. I didn't do anything unusual to find it. I just did a search for "dariusburst ps4" and clicked to look at completed auctions.

    I paid $99.99 + $5.50 shipping for mine directly from LRG, so the auction went for below the LRG price. The seller is even more in the red after eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.

    Though I don't wish it on those who are still trying to buy older LRG releases, I almost kind of wish it was this so-called "scalper's paradise" just for my own benefit. I'm sitting on a DariusBurst LE that I don't even want. I bought it because it looked like a US physical release for Vita wasn't going to happen, so I settled for a PS4 version. But we all know what happened shortly thereafter. But right now, I can't bring myself to waste my time selling and shipping the LE off just to lose money, break even, or make maybe a $10 profit tops. It's just not worth it. I would rather have not bought it in the first place.

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