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Thread: Limited Run Games (producing physical copies of digital games)

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    So much for Badland Games supposedly being so consumer/gamer-friendly and being able to do what LRG does but so much better. I preordered the physical Vita release of Velocity 2X back in August, and after months and months and months of delays, the thing finally comes out, and copies of the game don't even include the merch that's advertised as being included right on the front of the dang case. What a royal screw-up. They did a pretty nice job with Axiom Verge, even if the outer box was ridiculously flimsy, but this bait and switch with Velocity 2X is just sad.

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    Well aint this something. I hadn't been following the LRG releases the past few months.
    This thread just got me to think "hmm what's Kero BLaster"?
    watched a video, went to LRG site, 1 left in stock.
    I guess it's my lucky day.
    Though I hate buying these releases with no manual. Seems like Kero Blaster is the perfect type of game for a detailed old-school illustrated type of manual - presenting backstory, characters, weapons, control, main enemies, boss profiles, world overview, etc. Just seems so lame to print a commemorative run of 4000 copies but not even pay the property enough respect to give it a manual.

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    It is a shame, especially how there was a stretch starting with Xeodrifter where it seemed like most releases going forward would be getting manuals, only for it to drop off, with manuals being a sporadic thing now. I guess most of the developers don't think it's worth the effort.

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    Manual design and layout could certainly be a lot of extra work. In the instance of these supposed choice limited release games, I'd think a full complete release with proper manual would be a labor of love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    This is a pretty narrow minded way of looking at the situation. It's entirely possible to want to make something neat and collectible in physical form available while also making money. Buyers can also do whatever they want with them, including playing the games. The great thing about all of the games LRG sells is that they can be purchased, often for far less money in digital form by anyone who wants to play them and doesn't want to bother with physical media.
    If it was mostly about making game players happy then the print runs would be larger, if games are selling out within minutes or days then there's still more demand than what's produced. It's collectors that want to own things because they're exceptionally rare and that's who these releases are marketed to.

    When I bought the PC version of Thimbleweed Park from Fangamer it was last November, physical copies are still currently in stock. It's not even counting all the physical copies that were originally made available to the backers on Kickstarter. There's no shortage of this collectors edition even when it's not a wide retail release in any way.

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    I wonder if there's maybe a difference in thinking between those who have been following and/or buying from the beginning versus those who came along later. Those who came later could look back on LRG's history and see appeal in the quick sell-outs, as an indication of rarity. Me, I've always wanted the print runs to get bigger and last longer from the very beginning, and I was happy when they seemed to be getting bigger with each release. The fact that they've gone backwards and reduced print run sizes to that of the early days and even smaller has been a source of continuous frustration for me. I understand if LRG had to play it safe in the beginning, but they should have the financial stability now to take even the slightest amount of risk that a game won't sell out in less than a week. And I think they should be able to keep a game in stock for weeks or even a month without it harming them. I can also understand if new developers/publishers they're working with want to play it safe, but when it's a developer/publisher who has already released games through LRG, they shouldn't continue to be so afraid of the sales. Degica has worked with LRG before, so there's really no excuse for the woefully inadequate print run they did for Nurse Love Addiction. And the fact that LRG seemingly had a lot more confidence in Kero Blaster being a quick sell-out than Nurse Love Addiction just shows they really have no clue what they're doing in terms of estimating demand. Instead of calling us all "armchair CEOs", they should maybe put a little value in the comments of longtime LRG shoppers saying their underestimating demand of an upcoming release. At least as much value as they put in seeing a handful of people saying they're going to pass on a game.

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    The first batch of LRG's first PSVR game, Pixel Gear, has gone up. Good luck to those going for it.

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    Skipped it. I'm never going to get a PSVR. Plus I've seen the game digitally for around $1.50. $25 is too much to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by portnoyd View Post
    Jesus christ. Half the internet is truly retarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    So much for Badland Games supposedly being so consumer/gamer-friendly and being able to do what LRG does but so much better. I preordered the physical Vita release of Velocity 2X back in August, and after months and months and months of delays, the thing finally comes out, and copies of the game don't even include the merch that's advertised as being included right on the front of the dang case. What a royal screw-up. They did a pretty nice job with Axiom Verge, even if the outer box was ridiculously flimsy, but this bait and switch with Velocity 2X is just sad.
    My copy of the game has been received but I don't get my mail where I live, so it's currently being held where I have it sent to.

    What I've heard with Velocity 2X though, is that it no longer has the DLC codes as vouchers, that all the content is on disc. So while the disc still displays there's DLC codes and a making of video, they included it in the games UI instead. I don't know about you, all the delays for the content to be later included on disc is fine with me.

    There were a lot of people requesting LRG delay the release of N++ because the devs already had the new content patched on PC and PS4 was some time in 2018. So double the content that's already included in N++, but nah, as usual they don't bother listening to anything their fans state. LRG got into this business because they wanted to "preserve these digital games." However, 90% of their releases aren't even prepatched despite some being on the console over a year before the physical release.

    Titles like Rabi Ribi, Cosmic Star Heroine, Salt and Sanctuary. Yes, we hear from LRG that the devs are having trouble getting CSH on a Vita card or Salt and Sanctuary is having issues, despite the game being purchasable from the PSN for a year. You know what else LRG told us? They told us that Rabi Ribi would be releasing from LRG first, so wait for their version instead of preordering the PAL release from PQube. You know what I didn't hear, despite PQube's release, I haven't heard of the LRG release since its supposed release in the summer of 2017. Imagine that, LRG lying to fans to make them ignore the PQube release. The game is nothing more than a fish hook to drag their fans along while they continue to sign and publish shit games while waiting on the ones that they really want. I mean sure, they've signed and published good games too, but rarely, very very very very very rarely. Ys Origin and Wonderboy were fish hooks as well, the problem is, they were signed on from Play-Asia as well which is popular, so LRG stepped up their efforts to get their purchases out asap.

    Here's the other thing. BadLand games is quality over quantity, and the games launched at $20 for the base edition and $30 for the collector's editions. Not $30 which is more than likely what they would have cost at LRG being premium titles, and $65 for the collector's editions. Over double the cost if you want a collector's edition from LRG.

    And it's not that LRG didn't try to get Axiom Verge and Velocity 2X, the developers just didn't want to go through them(Doug was even pissed off they didn't get Axiom Verge.) Same with the developers of Hyper Light Drifter which isn't from BadLand but they also tried to get, same with multiple other big name games that they tried to get that later released with different publishers, like Darkest Dungeon for instance(which was rumored to have been a LRG for awhile but just looks like they only were having talks to get it published.) With so many big name games that we've heard LRG has went after now coming out under different publishers, as I stated in the other post, they probably don't want their names to be tarnished by being tied to LRG. Also, when all of these games are going at retail through stores like Amazon, Best Buy, etc, the price is "technically" lower as they're not being sold direct from the publisher, meaning that the profit is split between publisher, developer, third party, and Sony instead of just three. Considering anything that goes through Best Buy and Amazon is also a 20% discount and free shipping the prices aren't even close, making the collector's editions of LRG now almost THREE times as much.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    I don't recall Badland Games ever stating that the Velocity 2X DLC would be distributed with vouchers nor that the documentary wouldn't be on-disc/card, and that's not what I was talking about. What I and everyone else is complaining about is that they advertised a physical soundtrack and a paper booklet with the Vita version, which weren't included, and even the front cover of the game advertises those extras.

    Velocity 2X is priced at $29.99, and with the Vita version, you get absolutely nothing but the case, cover, and game. The PSN price is $20, so LRG would've priced it the same. The key difference here is that LRG has never once promised to include a soundtrack and manual with a game, took people's money, and then shipped them the bare game. It'd be like if, after the endless wait, LRG shipped bare copies of Skullgirls, without the extras. Badland Games pulled a total bait and switch, and so far the only thing they're owning up to is that the cover was misprinted.

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    Thanks for the info, Aussie2b. I forgot I had pre-ordered that. Just cancelled my order...I hope Amazon does cancel it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by portnoyd View Post
    Jesus christ. Half the internet is truly retarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    I don't recall Badland Games ever stating that the Velocity 2X DLC would be distributed with vouchers nor that the documentary wouldn't be on-disc/card, and that's not what I was talking about. What I and everyone else is complaining about is that they advertised a physical soundtrack and a paper booklet with the Vita version, which weren't included, and even the front cover of the game advertises those extras.

    Velocity 2X is priced at $29.99, and with the Vita version, you get absolutely nothing but the case, cover, and game. The PSN price is $20, so LRG would've priced it the same. The key difference here is that LRG has never once promised to include a soundtrack and manual with a game, took people's money, and then shipped them the bare game. It'd be like if, after the endless wait, LRG shipped bare copies of Skullgirls, without the extras. Badland Games pulled a total bait and switch, and so far the only thing they're owning up to is that the cover was misprinted.
    Well there's your problem, you got it for the Vita. I'm j/k. Sorry that happened. I didn't realize that, I only saw it on the PS4, and I didn't hear from BadLand games that the DLC was on disc, saw a post about it while looking it up.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    If it was mostly about making game players happy then the print runs would be larger, if games are selling out within minutes or days then there's still more demand than what's produced. It's collectors that want to own things because they're exceptionally rare and that's who these releases are marketed to.

    When I bought the PC version of Thimbleweed Park from Fangamer it was last November, physical copies are still currently in stock. It's not even counting all the physical copies that were originally made available to the backers on Kickstarter. There's no shortage of this collectors edition even when it's not a wide retail release in any way.
    LRG has never said that they are "about making game players happy". They are about releasing games that wouldn't otherwise get a physical release for collectors and gamers and running a successful business that allows them to keep doing that. One of the challenges of releasing niche products in the volume they are trying to do it is that if the print runs increase too much, the unsold stock will destroy the viability of the business. As I've pointed out many times, there is a reason that so many niche publishers disappeared in past generations and why a number of LRG's competitors will likely disappear in the near future.

    Fangamer is a fine company, but they make most of their money on merchandise where the margins are high and the risks are relatively low. There is a reason why Fangamer hasn't done regular console or PC releases and frankly, Fangamer parlayed the investment that Kickstarter backers of Thimbleweed Park such as myself made and essentially just printed extra copies of the CE that was promised to backers. I don't have an issue with what they did, but their financial risk was reduced significantly and frankly, they can risk having the game in stock because other than putting in intermittent orders for more copies, they haven't really spent anything on design beyond what the KS campaign creator paid them initially. Heck, they're even going to be able to use most of those design materials in this partnership with LRG to release Thimbleweed for PS4 and Switch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portnoyd View Post
    Jesus christ. Half the internet is truly retarded.

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    Momodora was announced ages ago and is finally coming out March 30th.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    LRG has never said that they are "about making game players happy". They are about releasing games that wouldn't otherwise get a physical release for collectors and gamers and running a successful business that allows them to keep doing that.
    Based on what you've said, LRG isn't about making money, or about making their customers happy. It's about existing for the sake of continuing to exist. That really is a unique business model.

    In more practical terms to ensure not overproducing a print run, the best way would be to set up a preorder type system. Orders are left open for a limited time, and the number of paid orders they get would dictate the size of the print run they make. The way it's set up now there's still more of a risk of potentially overproducing copies. Even limiting the collector's version to a small number while not strictly limiting the regular version would make more sense. But that's not the best way of artificially inflating value and demand now is it.

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    Skullgirls and standard copies of Ys Origin were open preorders. The standard copies of Switch Thimbleweed Park will be as well. Unfortunately, gamers/collectors don't tend to make a move unless you light a fire under their butts. If you tell them a finite print run number, they'll bite, but if you tell them a game will be manufactured based on how many preorders are received, they assume the game will be common and pass on it, even though the sales are typically lower for similar games under that sales model, resulting in even rarer games. It's pretty sad and pathetic when much bigger games, like Shovel Knight on Vita and the games Gaijinworks has released, struggle and and sometimes fail to get the same kind of sales that LRG can get in a single day, sometimes in a matter of an hour or even minutes, on games that aren't nearly as well-known and regarded. In my dream world, open preorders would always outsell games sold in LRG's manner so we could entirely eliminate this mad dash to buy games, but until collectors wise up and realize open preorders don't automatically mean common games, this is the necessary evil we have to put up with for these sorts of games to sell more copies, which benefits both the developers and collectors in the long-term.

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    I've pretty much stopped caring about rarity unless it's for old consoles, I would only buy modern games if it's something I want to play. Buying something rare for the sake of it being rare doesn't appeal to me anymore. Not if I have to fight for it. And it would need to be cheap. I guess I'm just getting old.

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    Not to derail the conversation but funny story:

    I just listed my plague road on eBay that I got from my blind box order. I had opened and played it and wasn't a fan so I went to sell it at used prices. Then I realized that they had sent me the Kickstarter variant. I never even realized it was the Kickstarter one till now. So come to find out I really lucked out on my blindboxes. Too bad I have already opened the game, but glad I didn't ship it out.

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    I should probably move my Kickstarter variant Plague Road copies sometime too. I stopped caring about variants, so I'd be cool just hanging on to my standard copy.

    I think with LRG, some are motivated by the desire to own rare games, and others are motivated by the fear that they won't be able to get a game later on, not without paying a premium at least. When collectors pass on open preorders because they assume they'll be common, it's not necessarily that they don't want the games at all, but rather they think they'll be able to get them easily at a later point in time, maybe even for significantly less. There's definitely a lot of psychological mind game stuff going on with collecting, and it's unfortunate that a lot of this kind of thinking is to the detriment to collectors, at least to people like me who want all games to be as plentiful and affordable in the years and decades to come as possible.

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