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Thread: Trying to de-solder a game chip from a board (Sega Genesis) and not having luck

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    Default Trying to de-solder a game chip from a board (Sega Genesis) and not having luck

    I've been at this for hours trying to get a way down to doing this. A few attempts got a bit further, once I thought I jacked the board so I re-soldered it and the game as is came back to life. The thing is I need this board for another valuable game with a busted PCB if what I was told in the sale was right (probably likely is.)

    I've just got a soldering cut, a metal pincer with a spring to shut on it(tiny really), and then a plastic handle with 2 metal points one is a tip and the other is an angle flat head edge. The best I've found so far is heating the solder joints and running the tip along it scraping away at the solder running down the line and it got a lot of it off, but now i"m at a point where the old solder just won't give up and die already and it won't move or does but not off the pin (just around it.)

    Where do I got with this? I know from that attempt I mentioned I can do the soldering job, but damned if I'm stuck not able to get the chip off and force will just break it.
    Last edited by Tanooki; 11-20-2015 at 08:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    I've just got a soldering cut, a metal pincer with a spring to shut on it(tiny really), and then a plastic handle with 2 metal points one is a tip and the other is an angle flat head edge. The best I've found so far is heating the solder joints and running the tip along it scraping away at the solder running down the line and it got a lot of it off, but now i"m at a point where the old solder just won't give up and die already and it won't move or does but not off the pin (just around it.)
    I'm not sure what you are describing here, but it sounds way wrong. A "soldering cut" (is that like a paper cut?), a metal pincer with a spring to shut on it (heat sink perhaps?), and a plastic handle with 2 metal points? It sounds like you are trying to scrape away the solder. You are supposed to suck it up using either a bulb or a wick. You may find this page helpful: http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/desolderpix.htm

    It also sounds like you are not particularly familiar with soldering. If that is the case I would recommend having a look at these:

    http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderpix.htm

    http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm#howto
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    this is what I use on about 80% of my repairs:

    http://www.amazon.com/SS350-G-Plated...FCK71919146Y7H

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki
    I've been at this for hours trying to get a way down to doing this. A few attempts got a bit further, once I thought I jacked the board so I re-soldered it and the game as is came back to life. The thing is I need this board for another valuable game with a busted PCB if what I was told in the sale was right (probably likely is.)

    I've just got a soldering cut, a metal pincer with a spring to shut on it(tiny really), and then a plastic handle with 2 metal points one is a tip and the other is an angle flat head edge. The best I've found so far is heating the solder joints and running the tip along it scraping away at the solder running down the line and it got a lot of it off, but now i"m at a point where the old solder just won't give up and die already and it won't move or does but not off the pin (just around it.)

    Where do I got with this? I know from that attempt I mentioned I can do the soldering job, but damned if I'm stuck not able to get the chip off and force will just break it.
    Get a Solder Sucker and Desolder Braid. I posted info on how to desolder chips on my CRT Repair Guide back at Racketboy, quoted below.

    Quote Originally Posted by CRTGAMER
    http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewt...458437#p458437



    Desolder Suction Tool
    Test the tool to see how it works. Push the plunger in until it locks. Cover the suction tip with your finger and press the release button. The plunger should not go all he way up because of you finger holding a vacuum at the tip. Remove your finger and observe how the plunger pops all the way up.

    Before heating an electrical pad, be sure to have the suction tool in standby position with the plunger locked down. Heat up the the solder pad, remove Solder Iron. Quicky cover the melted solder pad with the suction tip and press the release button. It will suck up any solder that is in the melted fluid state.

    Desolder Wick
    The Desolder Wick is a copper braid and is flux coated. First try heating it with the solder gun away from the PCB to see how it works while cleaning the Solder Iron. Note how the wick draws in the solder from the solder gun tip. Every time you heat up the wick and draw in solder, it cannot be used again. The flux is burned off and you want to prevent introducing the drawn in solder back onto the PCB. Cut off the wick with the wire cutters, a little extra off to have a clean unheated flux coating braid.

    Prepare the wick first by pinching with your fingers, offering a tighter point for better desolder control. Place the wick point over the solder pad and heat up the wick with the solder gun. Be careful not to overheat that might damage the solder pad on the PCB. The wick will draw in the solder onto its copper braid underneath.

    Residual Solder
    If you are still having trouble removing the solder you can try this. Do this only after you have removed as much solder as possible with the above two methods first. MELTED SOLDER RUNOFF COULD SHORT OTHER COMPONENTS. That said, I had a couple of chip legs that were still stuck with just a little solder in the hole. Heat up the leg and solder pad. While the melted solder is in a fluid state purse your lips and blow or use a can of air. Works faster then getting the suction tool into position, but risky where the melted solder lands. This is why a last resort.

    Look closely at each desoldered Chip leg, check for clearance movement with a tiny Slotted Screwdriver.



    Verify each Chip leg
    As you do each leg, check you progress with a magnifying glass. The PCB white marking will burn a little. That is okay as long as the solder pad does not get damaged or pulled up. Use a small slotted jewelers screwdriver, wiggle each leg to be sure it is clear of the PCB. TO PREVENT DAMAGE TO THE PCB, DO NOT FORCIBLY REMOVE THE CHIP. Once you confirm all legs are straight and free of the PCB, pull the chip with a Chip Puller or Needle Nose Pliers. You can also use the Off Set Screwdriver, do not force the old chip out.
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    Soldering cut was an epic typo/mistyping. I've got a soldering gun from radio shack with a nice tip on it, the rest of the little list is what I have.

    Niku & CRT -- Magnificent, that should do it. I know I need at least soldering wick to lay down over those pins to suck up the rest with a bit of heat, though I do wonder if a pump would be more effective with this aged factory solder on the board. I want to do this right, only get one shot not to fubar the hell out of Grind STormer. If I can do this, I'll go buy a few more swappable beater carts and pick up 3 other Tengen games I want.

    I'll hit up Radio Shack in a few hours, Grind Stormer is arriving a day early so I'm going to make a project of this.

    I'll keep that guide up there until I do the job so I don't forget it exists. I had no idea that was over on racketboy as I'm on there too. I never have good luck with forum search tools the again it was about repairing a Sony WEGA so I wouldn't have even looked at that.


    And RP I'm pretty basic on this. My soldering is limited to re-attaching broken joints on my pinball tables and removing and replacing video game cartridge batteries. I've never popped and swapped a microchip or other such part that is soldered into/through a board with a solder tip on the reverse side before. I didn't know I needed the wick to suck up the leftovers to free the chip. I had been going over it for a couple hours bleeding it away from it the best I could and the best got me like 3 out of 40 pins free so I gave up on it and made the post.
    Last edited by Tanooki; 11-20-2015 at 08:53 AM.

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    I didn't read the entire thing but did you put some flux on it? I always smear a bit across the pins before removing chips

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    You might want to practice on a junk board before you work on something valuable.
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    Well I broke the Chakan board, no doubt about that. A couple of the circular traces around where the chip seats popped off. >:\

    Grind Stormers chip though came off super clean and easy, the other just refused to let go. Now I need to go find another compatible board which sucks. Disgustingly amusing that the ghetto tengen boards of cheap material popped clean and easy with little effort, and the other refused to play nice and just went to pieces, but that also could be my meddling with it yesterday trying to undo it the hard way.
    Last edited by Tanooki; 11-20-2015 at 04:59 PM.

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    Well it was my meddling for hours, it wrecked that Chakan cart. I went out and picked up the Menacer cartridge and some street turd game from Accolate for 10 together and another 7 for a CIB Pit Fighter as a fall back (I liked the arcade just a little in the day.) Menacer got desoldered in like 10-15min as it was little effort pin to pin. Was able to cleanly seat Grind Stormer to the board on the first attempt without issue and soldered it there. Got it right on the first pass with nice tips on every single spot.

    In the end $15 for broken game, $5 for Chakan I busted, $5 for Menacer. I did buy some braid and some thinner solder but I needed that anyway for my pinball machine so it's a non-factor. $25 into it and it's a $50-60 game with an original board, and people seem to on ebay pay a good $20 premium for a good board transplant. I'm pleased. Oddly I find the game equally hard on easy and normal, can clear stage 1 but not the boss on 2.

    With my 2 other carts I think I'll need to go looking for Gauntlet IV and the two Dragon's Fury/Revenge carts since they have garbage boards too.

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    Cherry (Level 1)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    Well it was my meddling for hours, it wrecked that Chakan cart. I went out and picked up the Menacer cartridge and some street turd game from Accolate for 10 together and another 7 for a CIB Pit Fighter as a fall back (I liked the arcade just a little in the day.)
    I wouldn't solder anything to that Pit Fighter board -- it's another Tengen game, and one of the very few Genesis carts I've purchased that have been stone dead. (I subsequently bought a second copy, which was fine.)

    Meanwhile my Davis Cup Tennis cart just croaked, and that's yet another Tengen game (at least it's cheap). It worked perfectly a couple years ago, but not anymore. I just hope their Japanese PCBs are better than their export ones, since I don't want my Marble Madness going bad.

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    Are Tengen boards really that prone to failure? I thought there were just some bad batches of boards which were prone to fail. I haven't had any bad Tengen games yet, though I've come across dead games from other publishers including some published by Sega themselves. Maybe I need to go through my games again to check that they're still working.

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    Goldenband: Believe it or not, you might want to read around using google, but you must have uniquely bad luck. Pit Fighter maybe a Tengen game, but it is the only one to use a Sega board, the same board a LOT of games used.

    Gameguy what I've been able to read over a lot of Sega fan sites or sites that cover Sega games is that Tengen used the lowest quality PCBs of any self manufacturing company and a great many of them are prone to failure, but two games above all croak the highest so perhaps a crappier quality board between the 2 or they used that year -- Grind Stormer and Air Bender I think the other was called. You can look it over all you like but probably short of a microscope you won't find any fault with the board, same can be said with the capacitor or diode on them as well. They just magically fail and no one I could find had an actual explanation or even a good guess why that didn't get shot down. Another who had something terrible was I think Accolade, their earlier stuff was supposedly awful, not sure about anyone else, but even then the Accolade failures were minor in comparison to Tengen.

    I've seen reports of the games I'm interested in failing, just not as often so they're probably likely more often than not to work when bought compared to those specific 2 games (GS being the #1 worst by a fair margin.) Now that I know I can solder well enough to do stuff like that along with the bit I had before I'm pleased since I can fix other busted up things in these old games. It couldn't hurt to go looking into your game pile and take 5min just to slide them in and out with the power on to see if they pop up.


    Looking into the Tengen line-up I could see getting and patching up Gauntlet IV, Dragon's Fury, and Dragon's Revenge. But other than that anything else is super cheap stuff so I wouldn't waste the effort I don't think -- Klax, Roadblasters, and probably not much else though Snow Bros I'm sure isn't a ripoff like on the NES.

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    wait....

    soldering GUN?

    like pew pew gun?

    http://www.amazon.com/Weller-D650-In...=soldering+gun


    ^^^???^^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niku-Sama View Post
    wait....

    soldering GUN?

    like pew pew gun?

    http://www.amazon.com/Weller-D650-In...=soldering+gun


    ^^^???^^^
    I think he means one of those cheapo unregulated Radio Shack guns, not the typical high powered gun used for heavy gauge wire and sheet metal.
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    that might be part of the problem...

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    No the problem I had was that I didn't properly attempt to desolder the Chakan board using braid and i wrecked 3 contacts.

    Had I never done that, it would have been about an hour or so job.

    As I said yesterday I had zero issue removing Grind Stormer with the cheapo radio shack soldering pen, gun, whatever you care to call it in minutes. Just put the wick between each of the tips and put the tip to it and it absorbed it nice and clean on the first try, every one of the 40 pins. Then the Menacer cart I used as a victim yesterday, same thing, popped right off no problems.

    Finally using the newer spool of thinner solder wire than came with the cheap kit I got over a year ago I pushed it into the tip of the soldering tool to allow a teeny bubble of it to sit on the tip, then touched that to the spot on the board where it was needed 40x over, and then closed the shell over it (unscrewed) and popped it into the Genesis and it fired up immediately.

    The issue I had with Chakan was I had no braid, so I ran the soldering tip over the points repeatedly and I'm sure the long term heat and rubbing loosened up those 3 pads and cooked/removed them right off ruining that board. I know when I do it again in the future I can easily re-tool Gauntlet IV or the Dragon's Fury/Curse carts with no issue at all.


    THIS is the original kit I have, the only difference is mine has red/black instead of gray/black as in that picture.
    https://www.radioshack.com/products/...-soldering-set

    While I didn't use it, I did buy the featured item below on the sheet which is that desoldering iron with the bulb on it for $15 in case what I had didn't work out. I'm probably not going to take it back as I may have a use for it in the future with my pinball machines or if something on a console goes bad.

    EDIT -- Here you can see the work I did and the proper board a ton of games use that's compatible with the Tengen trouble games.
    Attachment 8378 Attachment 8379
    Last edited by Tanooki; 11-21-2015 at 03:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    Finally using the newer spool of thinner solder wire than came with the cheap kit I got over a year ago I pushed it into the tip of the soldering tool to allow a teeny bubble of it to sit on the tip, then touched that to the spot on the board where it was needed 40x over, and then closed the shell over it (unscrewed) and popped it into the Genesis and it fired up immediately.
    You are supposed to heat both the component leg and the pad, then apply the solder. If you melt the solder on the iron and use that to make the joint, you will not heat the pad or the component leg enough for the solder to properly wet them; which appears to be the case with almost every joint you made. Those joints will be prone to failure.

    How to make a good joint:

    https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-...d-solder-joint


    Examples of bad joints:

    https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-...ommon-problems
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    Quote Originally Posted by RP2A03 View Post
    You are supposed to heat both the component leg and the pad, then apply the solder. If you melt the solder on the iron and use that to make the joint, you will not heat the pad or the component leg enough for the solder to properly wet them; which appears to be the case with almost every joint you made. Those joints will be prone to failure.

    How to make a good joint:

    https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-...d-solder-joint


    Examples of bad joints:

    https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-...ommon-problems
    Tanooki's PCB looks fine to me, that chip is not going anywhere and there is no issue of tension strain compared to say a cart connector.

    You are correct on heating components and applying solder direct to the component and not the solder tip. It is the best method for soldering up wires with a solder iron or plumbing (with propane torch) copper pipe.

    However, the chip legs have such tight quarters, that method would risk jumpering the pads due to introducing the solder afterwards. Also a huge risk of heat damage, you want to get in and out with a quick touch of a saturated solder iron tip. When I repaired my WEGA Power Detection Chips (just soldering the chip holders); I can touch two or three legs before adding more solder to a leg. That was back in 2011 and the Wega still holding up very well.
    Last edited by CRTGAMER; 11-22-2015 at 06:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRTGAMER View Post
    Tanooki's PCB looks fine to me, that chip is not going anywhere and there is no issue of tension strain compared to say a cart connector.
    I see what appears to be bare pad on most of those joints and the tenth one from the top left appears to have an insufficiently wetted pin.


    However, the chip legs have such tight quarters, that method would risk jumpering the pads due to introducing the solder afterwards. Also a huge risk of heat damage, you want to get in and out with a quick touch of a saturated solder iron tip. When I repaired my WEGA Power Detection Chips (just soldering the chip holders); I can touch two or three legs before adding more solder to a leg. That was back in 2011 and the Wega still holding up very well.
    Surface tension will prevent most solder bridges provided to much solder is not used, and with a good iron the joint can be made in two seconds without the risk of heat damage.
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    RP, it's the flash and the angle, that 10th one you noted is well covered around it's just up in a cone tip, it's a mirage. As far as bare pads, maybe, I could double check, but I attempted to just barely get enough of it on there hot to fill out just to the edge of the pad but not beyond due to the close quarters of each pad due to the space between the pins on the chip. If anything is uncovered still it's less than a millimeter but I'd have to inspect it again. My great concern was not wanting too much and accidentally bridging anything or having it leak through the hole to the other side which is why I added it the way I explained.

    My really nice 15mp camera took a crap last week just before I did this project so you're having lower quality iphone5s images with the ghetto flash feature of it turning the flashlight LED on. I've noticed it's not making the best pictures under certain lighting situations.

    CRT's concerns of doing it the way you spoke of is exactly why I did it how I did. Originally I was thinking of going the other way getting the solder in there, but I really didn't want to overheat the chip itself, nor bridge something on the back side I can't see between the pins chip side. There were a few initially I didn't use enough and I went back over them and added a little extra.


    I can look at it again maybe during the weekend or next week. I ordered both Dragon's Fury and Dragon's Curse both Tengen/Sega games so I'll perhaps even though they said they work will probably dump the crap boards for better ones from spares I have/can get. I've got 1 spare, need another as I don't want to kill the Pit Fighter I picked up. Not the best game to most but I got used to the arcade version of its terribleness at the same place I really mastered SF2 and MK1 back in the day during that summer I was around all those games and more (such as double dragon which I could kill on a quarter, and altered beast too.)
    Last edited by Tanooki; 11-22-2015 at 08:39 PM.

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