PlayStation 4+/4.5/4K/VR

[Gameguy]

The real problem here is that the PS4 (and Xbox One frankly) was nowhere near as powerful as it should have been when it was released. When the Xbox 360 and PS3 came out, they had some truly impressive hardware that was well beyond what the majority of computers could do... but the PS4 wasn't much more than a mid-range PC.

It seems like Sony tried to avoid their previous mistake with launching the PS3 for $500-$600, the console didn't start selling well for a couple years until they cut the price down.

$300 is about right for a console price, pricing them higher doesn't work so well as home computers aren't $3000 anymore. You can buy a suitable new laptop for $600 so why buy a console for the same price?

How are you supposed to have a long hardware cycle when you're already using outdated tech?

Ask Nintendo how they kept doing it.

What I'd like to see is something midway between a console and a PC....

Something like the 3DO or CDi.

with removable CPU and GPU modules. Label the games appropriately ("Requires Core Level 2, Graphics Level 3"), design the modules to have simple plastic casings and easy connections, and away you go. Would it really be so complicated that people couldn't handle it? It worked fine with the N64's expansion pak, didn't it?

Worked great for Sega with the Sega CD and 32X.

[Ze_ro]

Ask Nintendo how they kept doing it.

Nintendo is in a market of their own. They may be getting by with what they're doing, but they've totally lost a huge portion of the gamer demographic in the process. This is part of why the Wii U is tanking miserably.

Something like the 3DO or CDi.

In what way are those halfway to being PC's? My idea is for a more modular design, and the only thing modular about either of those consoles was the digital video add-ons.

The 360 and PS3 already have removable/upgradeable hard drives, and that seems to have worked out well enough. People understand it, and it hasn't splintered the market.

Worked great for Sega with the Sega CD and 32X.

I don't think you can point to those two add-ons and make blanket statements about add-ons being a bad idea overall. The SegaCD and 32X had very specific failures that led to their downfall. The CD add-on for the TG-16/PC Engine was very successful, as was the Famicom Disk System.

Also, if any mods are reading this, I suggest merging this thread in with this thread.

--Zero

[Gameguy]

Nintendo is in a market of their own. They may be getting by with what they're doing, but they've totally lost a huge portion of the gamer demographic in the process. This is part of why the Wii U is tanking miserably.

Nintendo always aimed their consoles at the real consumers of them, kids and teenagers. The Wii U is tanking because I know of nothing available on it besides Splatoon and Mario Maker, they just didn't advertise the console well enough. I saw plenty of ads for the new Tomb Raider on TV along with the new Uncharted and Sunset Overdrive, and there was plenty of mention of Metal Gear Solid 5 around(can't remember if this was actually on TV or just online like a youtube ad). I don't recall any TV ads for Nintendo Wii U games. Maybe Splatoon but I think that was just a few online ads. It just feels like a hardware update to the Wii the same way there's plenty of DS/3DS variants. I can still remember the various TV ads for the Gameboy Color when that came out, and the ads for the Wii when that was new. I can't think of anything for the Wii U for whatever reason.

In what way are those halfway to being PC's?

Well just quickly quoting Wikipedia for the CD-I, the "device was created to provide more functionality than an audio CD player or game console, but at a lower price than a personal computer with a CD-ROM drive at the time." It was basically designed to be halfway between a gaming console and a home computer. Only instead of people seeing it as a cheaper PC, they saw it as an expensive game console.

I pretty much feel the same towards the 3DO as it mostly focused on CD-ROM type computer games like a cheaper computer, heck there was even a PC ISA expansion card available that allowed Windows PCs to play 3DO games. There wasn't just a single console design available, it was more of a hardware standard manufactured by several companies the same way VHS players were sold. There were also plans and announcements for an expansion to be made available with the M2, which later became a project for a new separate console, which got scrapped before release.

The 360 and PS3 already have removable/upgradeable hard drives, and that seems to have worked out well enough. People understand it, and it hasn't splintered the market.

Selling storage space is different than other hardware, it's no different than needing to buy memory cards depending on how much storage you're using. It's different than requiring certain CPU or GPU expansions for game compatibility.

The whole appeal of consoles to me are easy compatibility, I can just buy a console and know that games I'll buy will just work on it right out of the box. If I'm going to be messing around with different hardware configurations, various settings, and dealing with patches or updates, I'll stick with computer games. I'm going to be owning a computer anyway, I might as well just play games on that and not bother to buy a console.

I don't think you can point to those two add-ons and make blanket statements about add-ons being a bad idea overall. The SegaCD and 32X had very specific failures that led to their downfall. The CD add-on for the TG-16/PC Engine was very successful, as was the Famicom Disk System.

Those successful add ons only sold decently outside of North America. Here they either sold poorly or weren't available at all. Finding any Turbografx games here is difficult, finding CD-ROM games is getting near impossible without spending hundreds of dollars as the games are just that rare now. I'm saying this as someone who owns Sega CD, 32X, Turbo CD, and Famicom Disk System hardware. I don't hate them, but they just won't sell well to a mainstream consumer. Not even going into the whole various System Cards needed to play certain Turbo CD games, or needing a Turbo Booster Plus to save games. It's easier just to use a Turbo Duo which has everything needed built into one package. Really what sold well in North America was just the regular Turbografx console without any of the add ons.

[Ze_ro]

Well just quickly quoting Wikipedia for the CD-I, the "device was created to provide more functionality than an audio CD player or game console, but at a lower price than a personal computer with a CD-ROM drive at the time." It was basically designed to be halfway between a gaming console and a home computer. Only instead of people seeing it as a cheaper PC, they saw it as an expensive game console.

I always saw the CD-i as an attempt to capitalize on the "interactive multimedia" phenomenon that people thought was going to be a big thing. The only way this tech worked at all was with CD-ROM drives, which were really only in PC's at the time, so that's where multimedia started to make waves. Philips dove in headfirst, but it turned out the pool was awfully shallow.

3DO was not quite so bad. I think they had the same kind of ideas in mind, but they at least gave the thing a lot more regular gaming capabilities (while the CD-i was basically a step above DVD menus) which gave it a lot more opportunities once everyone realized interactive multimedia wasn't going to catch on. One thing I thought was great with the 3DO was how they licensed the tech out. I'd really love to see that happen on a wider scale... maybe Steam boxes will turn out in a similar way?

The whole appeal of consoles to me are easy compatibility, I can just buy a console and know that games I'll buy will just work on it right out of the box. If I'm going to be messing around with different hardware configurations, various settings, and dealing with patches or updates, I'll stick with computer games. I'm going to be owning a computer anyway, I might as well just play games on that and not bother to buy a console.

Thing is, most of that is already a problem with current systems. Hell, I have some Xbox 360 games that I probably can't play because my 20GB hard drive just isn't big enough to handle the mandatory install (maybe if I deleted damn near everything, but screw that). I also feel that downloading a 13GB patch on day 1 is completely unacceptable... I can't believe more people don't complain about that kind of crap.

Really what sold well in North America was just the regular Turbografx console without any of the add ons.

I feel that the CD add-on was received pretty well... I mean, the whole system was largely overlooked, so there aren't even that many TG-16's out there in the first place, but I think within the TG-16 community, it did okay. The fact that the merged it into the system certainly helped with the uptick.

Finding any Turbografx games here is difficult, finding CD-ROM games is getting near impossible without spending hundreds of dollars as the games are just that rare now.

Sadly, lots of the TurboChip games are hundreds of dollars too Not a good time to be a Turbo collector.

--Zero

[Tanooki]

Ze ro, you're right, and I had one so I remember it quite well. It was specifically sold not to kids, but to adults as a home TV multimedia device since that didn't exist outside the PC yet with disc based media. It was also specifically sold as an entertainment, education, audio and movie device -- a jack of all trades box. That's why the games it did have, the better stuff was rail shooters, FMV based stuff, pixel based games, and single screen arcade/puzzle stuff as that was its strengths. The fact it pulled off the Zelda games as well as it did was good because it wasn't made really exactly to handle large scrolling stages and action with it which is why when a piece of music looped it paused for like a half a second to restart it irregardless of what you were doing at the time.

I won't lie, I miss it. But I'll not buy another because I'd want what I had back, then go out from there, and there's no way in hell I'm paying the Nintendo douchy nerd flipper tax on the Zelda Faces of Evil/Wand of Gamelon + Hotel Mario tax. If by some sheer miracle I find them at a respectable or even (yeah right) cheap price somewhere I'll buy a CDi and put that money where my mouth is, but I'm not going to blow out like $75/ea or worse (whatever they are now) for each of those alone. If I get them all sub-original retail price complete (more or less, dont' care about the paper sleeve really) then I'll go after Lords of the Rising Sun, Mutant Rampage Body Slam, Namco Museum, Tetris, Voyeur, Space Ace, Dragon's Lair, and various others I had and then stuff I couldn't afford at that age that looked interesting if it reviews have decently by current people (ie: aged well.)