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Thread: retroUSB AVS or NES Classic Edition?

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    So I get my avs last night and it's the real deal. My friend and I perceived no lag (doesn't mean it's not there) and there was some audio weirdness, but I think that was the fault of my 5.1 amp. Everything works great. If you have the coin, this plus an everdrive is the way to go.

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    I was in a thrift store today and as I walked by the shelf full of cheap CRT TVs the local news was running a story about a line at Toys R Us that stretched around the building, for the NES classic. Apparently it's the Tickle-Me-Elmo this year, for normal people as well as gamers. So, Nintendo may keep the supplies down to get the press. Or not, I don't know how this nonsense works.

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    Beyond the short controller cords I really don't get the hate or the snooty instant dismissal of the NES Classic, especially from people that are supposed to be knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts. There's a lot of weird comments that are repeated over and over that leave me kind scratching my head.

    "It's just a cash grab" - As opposed to charity work? Should Nintendo have went into this hoping to lose money? Cost-wise it's the absolute cheapest these games have ever been offered in the history of their existence. Nintendo has always, always charged out the nose for any of their games in any format and has never de-valued their library by selling them for pennies on the dollar. You couldn't get the real carts cheaper, nor buy them on Virtual Console cheaper, so barring flat out piracy this is as cheap as you'll get. They're actually setting themselves up to lose sales from a casual customer in that it would be much, much cheaper to buy this console versus $5 or $6 bucks per title on any of their Virtual Console storefronts. Short cords aside, you won't find any other retro-game collection system that has either the build quality or care in software/presentation that the NES Classic has. The hardware/software blows any other similar product out of the water while priced at or below those same systems' MSRP.

    "I can't wait to sideload game X!" Umm....what? You can emulate pirated NES games on a zillion different platforms with little or no effort right this very second. Why give a moment's thought into getting hyped for this?

    "I've already got teh ROMs" Congratulations, you're not the target audience of this system. It's why people pay $2 for a small order of fries rather than $5 for a 10 pound bag of potatoes. Wasting my entire day off isn't worth the $20 I save by changing my own brake calipers and u-joints. Convenience has a price that can only be self measured. It's a closed library, one time sale, fire-and-forget product aimed at people without the time or inclination to run an emulator setup. Every time I've heard this system mentioned in real life conversation it's by people who probably haven't even touched anything but an iPhone game in 20+ years. If you've even heard the word "torrent" or "GoodNES" then this isn't for you, but that doesn't mean you should take an elite shit on other's fun. Some comments approach a tinge of jealousy like they're angry because these precious game experiences shouldn't be seen by a larger audience.

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    ^Spare me. I puked through my nose reading that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    Beyond the short controller cords I really don't get the hate or the snooty instant dismissal of the NES Classic, especially from people that are supposed to be knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts. There's a lot of weird comments that are repeated over and over that leave me kind scratching my head.
    The main problem is the limited supply that Nintendo always puts out. This happens with almost everything Nintendo does. See Amibos when they first got released.

    That and some people just love to hate on Nintendo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    Beyond the short controller cords I really don't get the hate or the snooty instant dismissal of the NES Classic, especially from people that are supposed to be knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts.
    I suppose it's because I'm knowledgeable that I dismiss it immediately. I know it's not compatible with Duck Hunt or any of the light gun games, and only includes the common games that I've already owned for years, so it's a completely unnecessary piece of junk like the various plug and plays I see at thrift stores for under $5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    "It's just a cash grab" - As opposed to charity work? Should Nintendo have went into this hoping to lose money? Cost-wise it's the absolute cheapest these games have ever been offered in the history of their existence. Nintendo has always, always charged out the nose for any of their games in any format and has never de-valued their library by selling them for pennies on the dollar.
    People wouldn't feel as bad if Nintendo were releasing something new, like some brand new games. Selling a collection of common games people into old games already own seems worthless. If this were a portable console with optional TV hookup, it would be more appealing as it's offering something different(besides all the GBA NES releases).

    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    You couldn't get the real carts cheaper....
    I sure could when I bought them used at garage sales and thrift stores, years ago before everything got stupid. I found plenty of games for $1 each. Collectors are used to buying games used, why are you only listing new retail options and pricing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    "I can't wait to sideload game X!" Umm....what? You can emulate pirated NES games on a zillion different platforms with little or no effort right this very second. Why give a moment's thought into getting hyped for this?
    Only reason I can really think of is people thinking the hardware is more suited to emulate the games properly compared to other hardware platforms, no idea if this is true or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    "I've already got teh ROMs" Congratulations, you're not the target audience of this system.
    So who is the target audience of the system? Hipsters? Earlier you said you didn't understand the dismissal from "knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts" yet you're now saying that they're not the target audience, why are you surprised again?

    It's like this is aimed at the same people who buy USB turntables. People who think playing vinyl just makes it automatically sound better, while using the cheapest quality turntables possible. Or it's just aimed at kids as this year's must-have toy which will just be forgotten and disposed of within the next year like every other must-have toy once they get bored with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    Wasting my entire day off isn't worth the $20 I save by changing my own brake calipers and u-joints. Convenience has a price that can only be self measured. It's a closed library, one time sale, fire-and-forget product aimed at people without the time or inclination to run an emulator setup.
    So it's less of a waste of time travelling around town trying to find one of these NES Classic systems? Nintendo sends a whole 2 or 3 of these per store per shipment, that's fine assuming nobody wants to buy them, except a ton of people still do. If it's so easy to buy one then why are they selling for $200-$300 on ebay? Nintendo could have made more to fill the demand but they chose not to. Nothing about buying one is convenient at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    I sure could when I bought them used at garage sales and thrift stores, years ago before everything got stupid. I found plenty of games for $1 each. Collectors are used to buying games used, why are you only listing new retail options and pricing?
    That's great you bought them 20 years ago for chickenfeed, but you answered your own question. Can anyone buy these 30 NES carts anywhere in today's market of 2016 for under $60?

    So who is the target audience of the system? Hipsters? Earlier you said you didn't understand the dismissal from "knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts" yet you're now saying that they're not the target audience, why are you surprised again?
    So it's less of a waste of time travelling around town trying to find one of these NES Classic systems? Nintendo sends a whole 2 or 3 of these per store per shipment, that's fine assuming nobody wants to buy them, except a ton of people still do. If it's so easy to buy one then why are they selling for $200-$300 on ebay? Nintendo could have made more to fill the demand but they chose not to. Nothing about buying one is convenient at this point.
    Let me rephrase. There is a big difference between saying "This item is trash with huge shortcomings and will leave buyers disappointed" versus "This is good quality but just isn't for me and I don't need it".

    Again, barring the short cords, all criticisms of this console have either been external qualms and beefs completely divorced from the product performance (low quantities, sky-high scalpers, disgruntled Wii U backlash or misc Nintendo hate) or have been issues that 100% go hand in hand with the very nature of all plug & play consoles (can't add games, no legs so no lifespan, designed as a sub-casual audience impulse buy). Think about this: Nintendo could have easily took this same thing, slapped it on a disc, bundled the NES controller with it and sold it as a Wii or Wii U title 5 or 10 years ago. It would have been well reviewed and sold great. But, would they have reached the huge audience they have now with selling it as a low priced stand-alone console?

    Plug & play consoles are by their very definition sold as a kid's gift or gift to someone that is not really hardcore into games. This does the job for them much better than anything else on the market, nothing like the embarassments to gaming that the AT Games Sega products are. A quality retro collection that even non-gamers can get into (even if just for a few months) is not something I view as bad for the hobby.
    Last edited by Az; 12-09-2016 at 12:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    That's great you bought them 20 years ago for chickenfeed, but you answered your own question. Can anyone buy these 30 NES carts anywhere in today's market of 2016 for under $60?
    You weren't just talking about recently, not the way you worded it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    Cost-wise it's the absolute cheapest these games have ever been offered in the history of their existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    Let me rephrase. There is a big difference between saying "This item is trash with huge shortcomings and will leave buyers disappointed" versus "This is good quality but just isn't for me and I don't need it".

    Again, barring the short cords, all criticisms of this console have either been external qualms and beefs completely divorced from the product performance (low quantities, sky-high scalpers, disgruntled Wii U backlash or misc Nintendo hate) or have been issues that 100% go hand in hand with the very nature of all plug & play consoles (can't add games, no legs so no lifespan, designed as a sub-casual audience impulse buy). Think about this: Nintendo could have easily took this same thing, slapped it on a disc, bundled the NES controller with it and sold it as a Wii or Wii U title 5 or 10 years ago. It would have been well reviewed and sold great. But, would they have reached the huge audience they have now with selling it as a low priced stand-alone console?
    Honestly if it was sold as a disc with a custom controller I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it, assuming it was priced cheaper like $30 with the controller. $60 for a Plug & Play is just too high priced, especially after every other company seemed to have released one of these around 10 years ago. It's like if a company just started making flip phones now to replace the old brick phones, when everyone is already using smartphones. Also, what's this about Nintendo only having a large audience now? If anything it was even bigger when the Wii was the current console they offered, they lost some market share with the Wii U. Plus, something like a compilation disc sold now should help them move whatever their latest console is.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Az View Post
    "This is good quality but just isn't for me and I don't need it".

    Again, barring the short cords, all criticisms of this console have either been external qualms and beefs completely divorced from the product performance (low quantities, sky-high scalpers, disgruntled Wii U backlash or misc Nintendo hate) or have been issues that 100% go hand in hand with the very nature of all plug & play consoles (can't add games, no legs so no lifespan, designed as a sub-casual audience impulse buy). Think about this: Nintendo could have easily took this same thing, slapped it on a disc, bundled the NES controller with it and sold it as a Wii or Wii U title 5 or 10 years ago. It would have been well reviewed and sold great. But, would they have reached the huge audience they have now with selling it as a low priced stand-alone console?
    Yeah I think that statement is fair.
    You cant hate on Nintendo for re-releasing games they own. Also you cant hate on Nintendo for shortages. This thing is pretty damn popular and its Christmas season. The first batch that was shipped over sold out really fast because of the anticipation and the scalpers and people buying them as gifts. Ive seen people mention that larger shipments of these systems have been recieved and they have since been restocked. Ive also seen on CL that someone in Boston had over a pallet of these things and was selling them for 80$. So I dont think its really a hard item to find anymore. I really dont think Nintendo created inital shortages of these on purpose. The first shipment simply sold out, and its no surprise if scalpers consumed a large chunk of the inital shipment.

    Also regarding scalpers, its annoying when people scalp this stuff, but this always happens when new Nintendo stuff comes out. After a month of its realease its no longer hard to find. Wait untill after Christmas and it the price will drop to 40$. Let the masses argue over modern mechendise. People who know better will just wait. Or buy a flash cart.

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    Anyone done a comparison of the AVS with the retro pie consoles?
    I'm strongly considering the AVS with the everdrive flash cart, but see the retro pie consoles completely put together are only about $130 as opposed to the $250+ I'd spend with AVS/flash cart.

    I have read stuff that implies AVS works really well with 10 year old HDTVs which I primarily use. Got a 52" in the man room for Tecmo Bowl.
    I'm not huge into technical aspects of this stuff, so I'm behind the curve on all these gadgets. I currently use a gamecube for emulation, but I'm not a huge retro gamer. I plays a ton of Tecmo Bowl, but hardly any other old NES titles.

    I have noticed with HDTV and NES or the GC that there can be perhaps a lag issue with the controls....BUT I've noticed in some cases that the game play really seems to go quicker than usual with some HDTVs as opposed to CRT TV when playing Tecmo Bowl. I've noticed a decided difference in how quick a particular WR gets into his break on some HDTVs. Some might think its lag as the control reaction could be slow on trying to nail full power field goals for instance, and why it's harder to perfectly get full power. However Ive noticed the sped up stuff. As a guy who plays tons of Tecmo Bowl, Im someone that can decidedly notice this stuff. Curious if anyone can explain what that speed issue about?

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    Display lag, game moves faster than what the lag makes you perceive it. It's not a console problem, it's entirely a TV problem. Displaylag.com can explain it in good detail, but I can run it down easy as this -- go there, look up tv, make sure it's like 30ms or under or you'll notice your WR issue.

    Basically the processing a HDMI tv does adds layers of lag while scaling the old image to something the set can handle. Any added garbage like MPEG filtering, picture enhancement, other tweaks, boosts, or other enhancements add more layers. Each can be a few ms or so, but it stacks. You don't see this on a PC as those LCD/LEDs already are like 10ms or less as they're just raw image to the panel while the TV screws around. All of them have some level of it, but the layers and layers add more, and each processor varies in a TV, even among the same manufacturer depending on the type/model of a TV.

    You can have a 29" and a 40" model of a TV that has the same # to it, it'll report one, then you can have another model that's say like 31" and 44" and that one will run like 10ms slower. A few TVs on the market, but it adds a cost has an added processor in there to make the TV behave nearly at the level of a PC LED that removes the issue. I got a Vizio 29" 2-3 years ago, looked it up, was like 25ms~ and it was $250, and there was a Sony at 22" with that processor and it was like $500-600 but the ms was in the low teens.

    It's best just to research something speedy. I have had that TV and it hasn't failed me, but I ended up with one 4" larger, a Samsung from my grandma who passed away and it was only 1ms different so I swapped to it. I had this same issue with the huge 45-50" samsung in the other room, I though mario allstars disc on Wii was broken and ended up selling it. I got another like 2 years later, ran it on the LED TV I had prior to the Vizio and it ran like the cart. That's when I looked into it and learned about this stuff.

    Basically your avs, retron5, nes classic edition, nvidia shield tablet/console, etc running into an HDMI tv can all equally suck balls or be perceived to work as nicely as a CRT (minus light gun games.)

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    I've generally found that if you're tv has a game mode and you use that setting it's fine. In my experience, this lag thing is a newer problem. My older hdtvs don't have these fancy hdr settings, and the games run fine.

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    This article does a good job of illustrating the better alternative. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/1...-and-retropie/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    I've generally found that if you're tv has a game mode and you use that setting it's fine. In my experience, this lag thing is a newer problem. My older hdtvs don't have these fancy hdr settings, and the games run fine.
    That's more or less how it was with my old 27"? Panasonic Viera, an old 720i/p set I had from the mid 00s. I never even thought to disable the filters as it had none other than one for running movies for MPEG which old consoles wouldn't trigger. It ran Punchout as nice as the WEGA that it replaced when its board that turned it on fried out. Far as I'm concerned if any TV can handle Mike Tyson in Punchout, it's lag free enough for pre-HD gaming. I had to hunt to get the answer when my kid accidentally cracked the screen like 2 years ago as I knew it was a thing by then.

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    So. Almost 2 weeks into the new year and not a peep from Nintendo. They sure like to have the rep guy and Miyamoto on late nite talk shows talking about a lame mobile game and an upcoming handheld.

    Nothing on the crap they're pulling with this NES mini thing? I see ALOT of people are pissed. If you can't keep up with supply and demand then say something. It is so hilarious, missing out on making money. The interest is gone now.

    They'll probably roll out millions in February, when nobody gives a fuck anymore and are looking towards the new handheld.

    For real? 4-5 skus per retailer? Who the fuck do you think you are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    That's more or less how it was with my old 27"? Panasonic Viera, an old 720i/p set I had from the mid 00s. I never even thought to disable the filters as it had none other than one for running movies for MPEG which old consoles wouldn't trigger. It ran Punchout as nice as the WEGA that it replaced when its board that turned it on fried out. Far as I'm concerned if any TV can handle Mike Tyson in Punchout, it's lag free enough for pre-HD gaming. I had to hunt to get the answer when my kid accidentally cracked the screen like 2 years ago as I knew it was a thing by then.
    I got to soda popinski in 1 life using the avs, so I think we're good.

    @fieryreign: the fanboys expect so little from Nintendo that they think it's basically ok to fuck the public with no risk of future sales because of blind loyalty. This isn't the last time we'll see something like this. It sucks anyway. My wife scored me a Famicom Mini and trust me, it's nothing to write home about.

    I don't have links at the moment but someone did hack it and put about 60 games on it before the menu went apeshit. Again, My AVS can play HUNDREDS with a flash cart, has adjustable expansion audio and scanlines. Folks, it's an amiibo that plugs in.

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    Funny Best Buy a few miles from here before Christmas didn't get 4-5, they got 45. The roll out around the country per store was a minimum of 12 and a max of who knows what (at least 45.) There's no excuse for the shortage, but the numbers were higher than given credit. I think the problem is they slashed 3DS creation temporarily, killed the WiiU, and they're doing the slow roll on the NES because they need to get Switch units done by March 10th/17th whenever it pops mid month. Given it's looking to be a cheap $250 system, they need to meet demand.

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    According to a GS employee I chat with, Nintendo ceased production on these things. Great job and great showing. Nintendo loves the resellers.

    They're also keeping retailers up in the air about shipments regarding their new faulty Switch system. Great job on that. It's not a matter of if, but when they will throw in the towel.

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