When did playing videogames become a sport? They seriously have this crap on ESPN2, a channel that's supposed to be about actual athletics, not dorks playing Madden, Street Fighter, and whatever-fps. What's worse? This or drone racing?
E-sports...seriously?
When did playing videogames become a sport? They seriously have this crap on ESPN2, a channel that's supposed to be about actual athletics, not dorks playing Madden, Street Fighter, and whatever-fps. What's worse? This or drone racing?
Yeah, it's pretty dumb in my book, but I fully admit to being out of touch with how kids enjoy games these days. Such a large portion of younger folks prefer watching let's plays and reactions over hands-on playing. They're a built in audience for this stuff that mainstream media is trying to figure out a way to cash in on.
It's not that strange for people to prefer watching video games being played rather than actually playing them, not with how mediocre modern games are in terms of gameplay. It's really no different than watching other people play sports on TV while listening to an announcer, rather than actually going outside and playing the sport yourself. I'm pretty sure watching the Superbowl is a pretty popular thing to do. Actually going outside to play football, not so much.
A lot of things now considered sports are really just competitions, which aren't really the same things. Competitive eating or speed eating is considered a sport, even though it's pretty much as far from athletic as possible. Unlike with most sports, with competitive eating the better you are at it, the worse your health actually is.
At least drone racing would be on the same page as model airplane and RC car racing which takes some technical skills to assemble, craft, and hone your vehicle of choice. That's really if you think of it somewhat on the level of a poor mans entry into stuff like full size plane or race car racing, just lacking the physical endurance of being in the machine itself.
But video games? Sure they take thumb skill and smarts to know the AI or opponent, but it's not a sport in the least damn bit. For ESPN to running this is disgusting. I guess with G4 belly up someone had to fill the nerd gap, surprisingly not Spike TV. And to think dodgeball gets relegated to the Ocho (ESPN 8.)
E-SPHATS!
people win big monies playing that shit though, look at DOTA 2 prize pools.
if I were playing a game and did well enough that some team wanted me to join eh?
I mean I guess if I were playing overwatch and I got an invite to some sort of play off I mean why the fuck not? if I win money I win money if I don't I took some time off of work to travel and play a game I liked to potentially win money, and I still got paid because I have mad stacks of PTO
Whatever floats people's boats. People have been setting up local video game tournaments pretty much as long as video games have been around, and this is essentially the same thing but on a grander scale. Certain genres, like fighting games, are all about the competitive multiplayer, so it's only natural that the best would seek out others at their skill level, and those who aren't that good would be interested in watching the best in action. And back in the day, games were about high scores, either setting a personal best or beating everybody else's scores on a public cabinet. I don't think the big deal our retro gaming community has made about people like Billy Mitchell is any less silly than people watching or obsessing over modern "e-sports" players.
I don't entirely disagree, especially regarding the competitive nature of those games. Where I differ is in a qualm and an observation.Originally Posted by Aussie2B
The sticker for me in how e-sports is being given the "sport" monicker. It all but entirely lacks the athletic component of sport, even moreso than something like NASCAR, which draws a similar debate of its own. E-sports being even further removed from what is classically included in our social convention of what constitutes a sport I believe opens it to critical discussion when it's being presented on sports networks (that also show the likes of billiards and poker) and proposed as a future olympic event.
The observed difference from my perspective from the public spectacle of early arcade performance is in the sedentary nature of the audience. The audience in an arcade that would draw came not from people who came just to watch players, but most often people who were there to play, then stopped to marvel at a player's impressive run. Players, especially in Japan and the US, were often booked to play at arcades, as their presence and performance drew not just an audience, but stimulated play from the audience that generated immediate revenue. E-sports, to me, draws more from the internet age of people who watch and stream play in place of actual play. Not that e-sports generates zero play, but it is much more a pure spectator event than the early '80s arcade scene, and the revenue space is in ad revenue instead of software revenue.
Like you said, to each their own here. I'm just on the side that can understand why it's popular, but can't relate to it in any meaningful way.
Last edited by celerystalker; 11-28-2016 at 10:01 AM.
^This is what I'm saying. Why not just call them what they are? Game tournaments or game competitions. Calling it a sport and airing them on ESPN makes it look goofy. Real sports fans like myself will just giggle and change the channel. People who are into watching these things and hate actual sports won't watch a "jock" network. Keep that stuff on the Esquire network or whatever.
And what is with them showcasing these dorks like they're some kinda celebrity-athlete? Looking all hard at the cameras and getting all pumped jacked up over a game. It's comedic gold.
They seriously want videogames as an Olympic event? Bwahahahaha
Well some might argue that synchronized basement masturbation is an event down in the basement once mom has gone to bed. The problem isn't the competition or the video games, it's calling it what it isn't, a sport. That's like calling watching a movie in a motion theater just like really riding a roller coaster as it's not.
Getting hung about what networks broadcast and the evolving definitions of words is much ado about nothing, in my opinion. There are countless so-called "sports" that have little to no athletic component to them. Even in the Olympics, they have events such as pistol/rifle/skeet shooting. And there are very few channels that have 100% stayed true to their original concept. Cartoon Network plays live-action. MTV barely plays anything music-related. etc. etc. You can complain about it ad nauseam or just accept it and spend your time on something that does interest you. I don't see any appeal in "e-sports" either, or a lot of phenomenon in modern gaming, but I'm not about to get mad about it or whatever.
And when I bring up score-based gaming, I don't just mean people gathering in arcades, where they tend to both watch and play. The obsession with high scores and the best players gave rise to sites like Twin Galaxies and movies like The King of Kong. I'm sure most people who care about the likes of Billy Mitchell are more interested in hearing about and watching him, rather than trying to compete against his scores. These players are celebrities to some people, no different than the younger "e-sports" stars. Personally, I think it's helpful for the older crowd to have some perspective and realize that what younger gamers have taken interest in isn't so different from what our community has, even if it's taken a slightly different form.
I'd beg to differ that it's not so different. The phenomenon of watching gameplay and reactions as pure entertainment is a very new approach to enjoying video games.
I've been thinking recently about this, as in the past, I've been extremely critical of this way of enjoying games. Nowadays, I'm wondering if it really is any less valid, or if I'm just out of touch with a new generation's take on fun, and I'm honestly not sure.
Off topic, professional gamers aren't really that professional. Maybe that one specific genre of games that they dedicate their lives to playing, but sit them in front of any other genre of games and they'll be worse than most good gamers. All those dude bros who play only Call of Duty are pretty much casual gamers, the same could be said about Daigo Umehara who plays fighting games almost exclusively.
E sports is profitable for the companies who get in on it and the gamers that want to waste away playing the same game. It's become really popular because gamers in general have become garbage at playing even the most simple games, they'd rather watch other people than play because they don't want to take the time to get better, the very reason we get yearly franchises that hand hold your way through the end, the reason why walking simulators and visual novels are starting to become such a big market, because most of the gaming fanbase nowdays is complete garbage. They're also very stupid. Paying let's players through Twitch and Patreon to watch them play games, and we all know about paying out the ass for worthless DLC, the very reason why it's became so bad and gets worse year after year.
*edit*
Gaming has become more of a money grab for a lot of people than the passion for the entertainment itself.
Last edited by kupomogli; 11-28-2016 at 11:57 AM.
Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.
I wouldn't call most instances of people watching others play via video a replacement for actually playing games. In most cases, the people watching had no interest in playing the game in the first place. When people watch reaction videos, they're interested in the humor of the person reacting, be it their overblown fear of a horror game or their frustration with a crappy game or their lampooning of one, not because they're so fascinated with the game itself. It's more like video games are being used simply as a medium or topic to beget other forms of entertainment. Or, say, with Let's Play videos of classic games, people may be watching to get fuzzy, nostalgic feelings out of it, rather than them actually wanting the experience of replaying the game.
One of the few cases where I'd say people are genuinely using videos as a way of enjoying the games themselves is for story-focused games that have minimal gameplay, like visual novels. In that case, it's akin to pirating. You get virtually the same experience as playing the game yourself, but you don't have to spend the money to acquire it. This is why publishers of these sorts of games often have strict rules as to what they'll let fans upload to Youtube and such. Full playthroughs tend to be pulled down. Publishers who deal in games with a significant gameplay component don't care nearly as much about Let's Play videos that show a game in full because they know that the experience of playing cannot be replaced by the experience of watching, thus those who are watching aren't considered lost customers. Rather, they're considered as people who either will never be customers, because they're watching for the entertainment of the videos themselves, not the games, or they may be convinced to buy the game by watching.
How is that any different from athletes who are only good at their particular sport/field? Unless you think decathlon athletes or what have you are the only athletes deserving of respect. But they're jacks of all trades who aren't nearly as good at any individual event as those who specialize.
Also, thanks for the kind words towards visual novel fans. I see you're as much of a pleasure as always.
Last edited by Aussie2B; 11-28-2016 at 12:42 PM.
I would very much disagree that the majority of let's play viewers aren't using videos as their way of enjoying the game. A couple of my nieces and nephews watch videos from various games as their primary method of interacting with the medium. They talk to me about them, and it's never about what the player does outside of the game, but what happens during gameplay itself. These kids are teenagers, and they are completely entertained by watching someone else play Minecraft or Titanfall as if they'd watched a TV show, and I run into the same thing with a lot of my employees, especially younger men in their early 20s. They'll have long conversations about videos of Five Nights at Freddies, just discussing what they saw as if they'd watched a horror film. Gaming spectators seem to be a real and growing thing, and I come off as the crazy old guy who actually plays games in conversation. They end up interested in what I know, but then will come back a few days later talking about not emulating or playing, but seeing a Metal Jesus Rocks episode, AVGN, or someone they found on Twitch.
My knee-jerk reaction is to tease them all, but when I talk to my niece about something she saw on Game Theory and Twitch, she's genuinely interested in my knowledge and corrections, almost like when I was a kid reading about Greek Mythology or whatever. Her earnest approach, which is primarily video-based, is what has me contemplating the validity of interacting with games in that way, even though everything in me screams that e-sports is just silly, and that modern kids are missing the point.
I think we're essentially in agreement, just that we have a different perspective on it. Like you said, they're watching these videos as if they're TV shows and enjoying them as if they're TV shows. Generally speaking, it's not a matter of them being too lazy to play a game or that they can't for some reason. They're not using these as some sort of poor man's video game playing. Playing games and watching these game-themed videos are two different hobbies. A lot of people have interest in both, but some are only into one or the other. Like, for a while there, I was really big on watching GameCenter CX. I import a lot of games, both modern and retro, so it's not like any of the games on the show seem out-of-reach to me. If I want to play them, I'll do exactly that. My interest in the show had nothing to do with my desire or lack thereof to play games. I watched the show because I found the show itself entertaining.
So that's why I'm stressing that these videos aren't a "replacement" for actually playing games. It may seem that way from our perspective, where we may be like "Why don't you just play the game yourself?", because, to us, that may seem way more entertaining, but such a question shows a lack of understanding of what people are getting out of these videos in the first place. They're interested in the story, the visuals, the audio, the production and commentary outside of the game footage, basically everything BUT experiencing the gameplay firsthand. To me, it's not that foreign of a concept. I live in a household full of gamers, and long before Youtube and the like existed, we'd gather around a TV and watch as one of us would play through a single-player game, enjoying the experience of watching. Many of those games I still have never played myself. Some I have no desire to ever play. But it was still fun watching. Or if I think further back, my earliest introductions to games, back around when I was in kindergarten, I would watch my brother play games far more often than I'd play them myself. One, because it was his system and games, and two, because most of the games were too hard for me to get anywhere in them, so I didn't have much fun if I tried. I owe my entire interest in gaming to those days of watching games and becoming fascinated with their worlds, even if I wasn't actively navigating them myself.
It's just laziness and everything needing to be instantaneous. Spoiled kids of today "gotta have it, right now". Screw learning the gameplay, or bothering with any of that nonsense. "I'll just watch someone else play while shoving a Mcburger into my face".
Yet, that has nothing to do with this esport crap. Wannabe celebs practicing the same game over and over are weak. What if suddenly a racing game gets plopped in front of them? A vehicular combat game? An old school platformer? An old school shmup?
They'd look like a fish out of water. Like they've never played a game before. I'd wax the floor with all of them. Just because you're good at Street Fighter 5 doesn't make you a good gamer. It means you spend entirely too much time playing ONE game.
It doesn't make you an athlete. It doesn't make it a sport. People train their whole lives just to represent their country, every 4 years in the Olympics. A fucking COD tournament would tarnish the entire premise. Whoever compared Olympic events to playing games is living in cosplay fantasy world. Imagine some fat neckbeard, holding his xbox controller high in the sky, on the cover of a Wheaties box.
Last edited by FieryReign; 11-28-2016 at 04:25 PM.
I dont get people watching/streaming while they play. Sometimes when younger people are in my party and they re like"wait ill start streaming on twitch" I just dont get it, f#@ that! Maybe if you re one of the best in the world, but just a regular guy? Who watches this crap! I do enjoy sometimes seeing an impressive killstreak of a fps or spectacular goal in rocket league on youtube, but not on twitch, id rather play than watch aomeone play. And watching people play dota2 is so boring, i recently saw that on my local sports channel!
I also mentioned walking simulators, and the reference wasn't towards visual novel fans, it was towards why games have become non games more or less. This is just as much true for visual novels as it is Assassin's Creed and other such games that hand hold and pretty much do everything for you. The reason why games auto save after every two seconds. The reason why the automatic health recovery system from Halo is implemented in almost every single game afterwards. The reason why games are balanced to be easy, and higher difficulties aren't balanced properly, enemies just take off more damage. You get the idea. It's because gamers of today are so bad at video games and one of the reasons why watching video games over playing them, and these same people actually paying money to do so, has become so popular.
Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.
For what it's worth I genuinely enjoy watching esports. Partly it just makes sense, I want to see people playing games I like at a level that I am simply incapable of doing so. In the case of League or Dota, particularly if you know the rules of the game, it's incredibly entertaining. Same with some FPS. For me Hearthstone is far more interesting than, say, poker yet the mainstream seems to have accepted competitive poker as a thing. Don't get too hung-up on the "sport as an athletic event" since sport can refer to basically anything that's competitive.
People would rather watch a game being played instead of playing it not because it's too hard for them, it's usually because it's too boring to play. It's enjoyable listening to other players talk over it for the same reasons why MST3K is entertaining for movies, it's fun to make fun of shit.
If you'd rather waste time playing a boring game over and over again until you master it, such as the various shovelware games from the last 20 years, more power to you. I'd rather stick to playing actual fun games, and watch people make fun of the shit games.
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