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Thread: Writers Wanted for Super Nintendo Book

  1. #21
    Cherry (Level 1)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jperryss View Post
    That's great, but whatever you feel you owe him has no relevance to this discussion and I don't think anyone is being hard on him.

    Again, why not offer a free digital copy to anyone who contributes?

    He already explained that.

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    Pretzel (Level 4) 8bitgamer's Avatar
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    I'll try to make it easy to understand with bullet points:

    *I have no way to give out digital copies since the publisher creates those
    *If I paid contributors (of which there are many) cash or with a free book, I would make little to money on years of hard work
    *Contributor stories take a few minutes each since they are personal stories and not research-based. They aren't doing it for money and it takes very little of their time. Regardless, I highly appreciate their efforts.
    *I heavily edit most of the stories that come in since many of the contributors aren't writers by trade
    *Many of the contributors who are writers by trade are getting a free copy (from the publisher) anyway since they have a platform for reviewing the book
    *YouTubers with a reasonably large base are getting a free copy as well (from the publisher, which has a budget for sending out review copies, but not contributor copies)
    *Writing about classic video games doesn't pay much; it's not like this is a political or weight loss book, or even an Xbox One book
    *Contributors are volunteering their efforts to help support my project, to have fun, to see their work in print, and to preserve their legacy of retro gaming
    *Every contributor is happy with the arrangement and is happy to help me chronicle gaming history
    *I've contributed to magazines (Classic Gamer Magazine, Scary Monsters) and books (Memoirs of a Caveman) free of charge because I was passionate about the project. I have turned down these types of things as well.
    *Remember, it's all voluntary--no one is being forced to write anything. Volunteers typically do things for reasons other than financial gain
    Last edited by 8bitgamer; 06-12-2017 at 04:01 PM.

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    Peach (Level 3)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cav View Post
    As a contributor, what I feel has no relevance to this discussion? HUH?
    Actually, I said "whatever you feel you owe him has no relevance to this discussion" because he's done favors for you. Nobody else owes him anything.

    I don't know him outside of this thread and I'm glad you think highly of him. The point is, he's still asking people to work for free.

  4. #24
    Pretzel (Level 4) 8bitgamer's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=The point is, he's still asking people to work for free.[/QUOTE]

    The key word here is "asking." I guess you'd be surprised how many people jumped at the chance to participate in such a project, including some fairly well known gamers/industry people.

  5. #25
    Cherry (Level 1)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jperryss View Post
    Actually, I said "whatever you feel you owe him has no relevance to this discussion" because he's done favors for you. Nobody else owes him anything.

    I don't know him outside of this thread and I'm glad you think highly of him. The point is, he's still asking people to work for free.
    And I understood what you said. My feeling is not only do I felt I owed him, but I also wanted to do it. I also said, we all have our own reasons for contributing. If I felt he was out to scam writers or crap on the hobby then I wouldn't participate. Maybe others DO feel they owe him. Maybe they don't. Maybe they want to because they want to help someone who has promoted this hobby for a long time and this is a way of saying thanks. But for someone to say he's just in it for the money is wrong. I mean I know that jackpot from writing about classic gaming is just around the corner, but until then I'm happy to help a friend.

    The bottom line is if you don't want to do it then don't do it. He can ask people to work for free and those people can say no. I'm just not understanding the need to call him out on it like he's some noob to the hobby. This is not Ms. Herz we're talking about or the other numbnuts who have paraded through these and Atari Age forums taking advantage of the hobby. Brett is right up there with Leonard Herman and Earl Green, and Michael Thomasson working their asses off for not a lot of dough to keep these games and systems in a positive light with the general masses. Brett's not trying shake anyone down and laugh his way to the bank. It's 250 words. It was hardly taxing work. Maybe you should get to know to him outside of this thread. We all used to do things like that around here.
    Last edited by Cav; 06-14-2017 at 08:55 PM.

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    If the contributors truly are only spending a few minutes to crank out 250-350 words, then the caliber of writing really doesn't deserve to be in a published book, even after editing. Nobody wants to read a book that's had the time and effort of a message board post put into the writing. Writing something that deserves to be published takes care and time. Even if research and fact-checking is totally unnecessary, it's not uncalled for to take notes, arrange your thoughts, and work to make every sentence engaging and flow pleasantly. I often write 250-word sidebars for articles, and trust me, I spend a hell of a lot more time on them than a few minutes. Were this paid work, I'd say it deserves at least $0.10 a word, so you'd be looking at 25-35 bucks. The average American works at least an hour to make that kind of money.

    I also gotta say that none of this reflects well on McFarland. It's questionable enough that a publisher would think it okay for a book under its label to be filled with a significant amount of unpaid work, and it's even worse that they can't even arrange to provide free digital copies. I've worked with everything from people doing things on their own, to the point that what they're putting out is basically a fanzine, to big-time publishers. Even the people doing things on their own, who couldn't pay, could provide free copies, and even the small, independent publishers could both pay and provide comp copies. I really can't fathom why McFarland can provide absolutely nothing.

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    Pretzel (Level 4) 8bitgamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    If the contributors truly are only spending a few minutes to crank out 250-350 words, then the caliber of writing really doesn't deserve to be in a published book, even after editing. Nobody wants to read a book that's had the time and effort of a message board post put into the writing. Writing something that deserves to be published takes care and time. Even if research and fact-checking is totally unnecessary, it's not uncalled for to take notes, arrange your thoughts, and work to make every sentence engaging and flow pleasantly. I often write 250-word sidebars for articles, and trust me, I spend a hell of a lot more time on them than a few minutes. Were this paid work, I'd say it deserves at least $0.10 a word, so you'd be looking at 25-35 bucks. The average American works at least an hour to make that kind of money.

    I also gotta say that none of this reflects well on McFarland. It's questionable enough that a publisher would think it okay for a book under its label to be filled with a significant amount of unpaid work, and it's even worse that they can't even arrange to provide free digital copies. I've worked with everything from people doing things on their own, to the point that what they're putting out is basically a fanzine, to big-time publishers. Even the people doing things on their own, who couldn't pay, could provide free copies, and even the small, independent publishers could both pay and provide comp copies. I really can't fathom why McFarland can provide absolutely nothing.
    Trust me, the work from the contributors is high caliber, fascinating stories that you had to be there, growing up with the SNES in the 90s, to write. My point was just that one or a few personal reflections don't take nearly as long to write as 700+ description/reviews. I've been a professional freelance writer for 20 years. Most writing opportunities pay, but some don't. This one doesn't. Not really a big deal for those who are willing to participate anyway.
    Last edited by 8bitgamer; 06-12-2017 at 07:27 PM.

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    I don't doubt that the stories themselves are interesting and reflective of the era, but whether in writing or spoken, a story's impact hinges on the delivery. That's why some people are good storytellers and some aren't, even if they're telling the same story. You have to choose your words carefully and think about the pacing of it, and I think even the best writers would struggle to do that with much success if they're working for only a few minutes. My hope here is that you're just underestimating the amount of time actually spent on these pieces, and I hope the lack of payment doesn't result in the contributors putting little time and care into their work.

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    Pretzel (Level 4) 8bitgamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    I don't doubt that the stories themselves are interesting and reflective of the era, but whether in writing or spoken, a story's impact hinges on the delivery. That's why some people are good storytellers and some aren't, even if they're telling the same story. You have to choose your words carefully and think about the pacing of it, and I think even the best writers would struggle to do that with much success if they're working for only a few minutes. My hope here is that you're just underestimating the amount of time actually spent on these pieces, and I hope the lack of payment doesn't result in the contributors putting little time and care into their work.
    All the contributors are turning in quality work. "Few minutes" was a relative term to cranking out 700+ encyclopedia-style entries. I have no doubt the writers put a lot of care into their work.

    Anyhow, it's going to be a great book with tons of cool stories.

    Bye, see ya when it's published next year.
    Last edited by 8bitgamer; 06-12-2017 at 09:14 PM.

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    I am in favor of this book/project. I hope it sells many copies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8bitgamer View Post
    Bye, see ya when it's published next year.
    ? I hope you haven't taken offense. I'm just offering some of my perspective as a professional writer/editor/proofreader, and I'm asking questions as a consumer. When you're offering a commercial product, you can't expect total blind faith and positivity from everyone. People are going to have questions about what they're getting and maybe even about the ethics of the production of the product (and that doesn't all rest on your shoulders here; I would see you as akin to an editor in chief here, while it's the publisher who should be compensating all those involved in the project in one form or another. And believe me, I've worked on some publications where I have zero complaints with my editor in chief and my fellow contributors who are all busting their butts to meet deadlines and do good work, but the publisher itself leaves something to be desired.)

    This critical discourse may be off-putting to you, but you may also be creating a vicious circle if you run off and only appear here when you want to plug a product or ask for assistance with one. If you engaged with the community for other purposes, you could build up some camaraderie around here, such that people won't scrutinize your projects to such an extent. And then you'd probably also see more takers on your requests for help. As far as unpaid work goes, people are more inclined to do it when they see it as a favor for a friend than just working for some random stranger who offers nothing in return.

  12. #32
    Pretzel (Level 4) 8bitgamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    ? I hope you haven't taken offense. I'm just offering some of my perspective as a professional writer/editor/proofreader, and I'm asking questions as a consumer. When you're offering a commercial product, you can't expect total blind faith and positivity from everyone. People are going to have questions about what they're getting and maybe even about the ethics of the production of the product (and that doesn't all rest on your shoulders here; I would see you as akin to an editor in chief here, while it's the publisher who should be compensating all those involved in the project in one form or another. And believe me, I've worked on some publications where I have zero complaints with my editor in chief and my fellow contributors who are all busting their butts to meet deadlines and do good work, but the publisher itself leaves something to be desired.)

    This critical discourse may be off-putting to you, but you may also be creating a vicious circle if you run off and only appear here when you want to plug a product or ask for assistance with one. If you engaged with the community for other purposes, you could build up some camaraderie around here, such that people won't scrutinize your projects to such an extent. And then you'd probably also see more takers on your requests for help. As far as unpaid work goes, people are more inclined to do it when they see it as a favor for a friend than just working for some random stranger who offers nothing in return.
    I'm not offended or anything, just a little tired of the topic. I've made my points several times, so I don't have much more to say. I'm not famous or anything, but I'm hardly a "random stranger" in classic gaming circles. However, you do have a point in that I should have introduced myself in the original post. I've been around DP so long (subscribing to the 90s fanzine, CGE, the message boards, the video game museum, writing for recent issues of the fanzine, etc.) that I sorta took it for granted that people would know who I was when I made the post (especially since my signature is there). My bad.

    Here ya go:

    https://www.amazon.com/Brett-Weiss/e...ne_cont_book_1

    http://www.brettweisswords.com/

    https://muckrack.com/brett-weiss/articles
    Last edited by 8bitgamer; 06-12-2017 at 11:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nz17 View Post
    I am in favor of this book/project. I hope it sells many copies.
    Thanks, me too, and all the contributors hope so as well!

  14. #34
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    Well, I more meant engaging with the people here one-on-one and just shooting the breeze about games rather than listing and linking to your body of work, but yeah, that can't hurt either. There's a difference between knowing someone and knowing of someone. If someone is, say, a celebrity, I'll know of who they are, but they're still effectively a stranger to me, thus I wouldn't be very inclined to work for free for them, as opposed to someone I consider a friend asking for a favor. If somebody is a fan of somebody else's work, then maybe they'll feel like they owe that creator something, but I'd still give precedence to helping somebody I have a personal connection with.

    Just throwing some food for thought out there, for whatever it's worth. I fully understand if you don't have time for this community outside of matters that involve your work, but some may react more critically than they would otherwise as a result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8bitgamer View Post
    Thanks, me too, and all the contributors hope so as well!
    Hoping to make a lot of money off of people working for free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPG_Fanatic View Post
    Hoping to make a lot of money off of people working for free.
    Here's a Facebook comment from one of these poor slaves I'm getting rich off of and forcing to work for free:

    "This is something that I've wanted to share but I wasn't quite sure when was the best time; I mean, look at the talent on the list--I could've been dumped any day! But anyway: I'm going to be in a book! Maybe even two! Because of magazines like EGM as well as the podcasts and shows of the now defunct 1up.com (moment of silence....), I've dreamed about having something I've worked on be published alongside pieces from people I've admired like Jeremy Parish, Sam Kennedy and Greg Sewart, and Brett Weiss has made that dream a reality.

    I'd like to thank Mr. Weiss for giving me this opportunity as I never once thought in a million years that something like this would ever happen to a guy who was born and raised in Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. I hope that the pieces I submitted are truly worthy to be collected in the same book as the people I'm going to share pages with. I'm not sure I can ever really express how much it means to me. I'd also like to thank Chris Baker, because without him, I would never have even heard about this in the first place. For someone who I've only known for a few years, his encouragement has helped me keep going when I feel like throwing in the towel, and it blows my mind to flick through old EGMs and say, "I know this guy!" Can't wait for everyone to see all these stories when volume one releases. I'm sure everyone will scream 'I can't wait for volume 2!' when they turn that last page."

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    I'm in favor of the original poster. No one is forcing anyone to write something and I am sure that not every entry will be accepted as part of the book.

    If you are a professional writer I can understand that you demand payment for your writing work but you know that before professional you did work for free or just wanted something published. Many people contributing are not professionals and I am sure that there are some professional writers that want to contribute something related to gaming if they are novelists or technology writers.

    I would like to contribute but I am not very good organizing my free time and I just write in a blog reviewing retro games, no payment involved, of course, and I am more than happy with my contributions.

    And for the record, I do take at least 4 or 5 hours polishing the words and grammar. I usually write a review after finishing a game to speed up the investigation process.
    Last edited by eskobar; 04-04-2018 at 05:38 PM. Reason: typos
    Las calles no son basurero, POR FAVOR TIREN LA BASURA EN SU LUGAR !!!!

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskobar View Post
    I'm in favor of the original poster. No one is forcing anyone to write something and I am sure that not every entry will be accepted as part of the book.

    If you are a professional writer I can understand that you demand payment for writing work but you know that before professional you did work for free of just wanted something published. Many people contributing are not professionals and I am sure that there are some professional writers that want to contribute something related to gaming if they are novelist of technology writers.

    I would like to contribute but I am not very good organizing my free time and I just write in an blog reviewing retro games, no payment involved, of course, and I am more than happy with my contributions.

    And for the record, I do take at least 4 or 5 hours polishing the words and grammar. I usually write a review after finishing it to speed up the investigation process.
    Well said.

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    I wonder how many of the critics are against unpaid internships as well since that would be considered "getting rich off slave labor"

  20. #40
    Peach (Level 3) Koa Zo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbpxl View Post
    I wonder how many of the critics are against unpaid internships as well since that would be considered "getting rich off slave labor"
    Unpaid internships are highly abused in the USA. Legally there has to be an educational competent to the internship and the intern can not be doing work that would otherwise be done by a paid employee. Of course interns don't speak-up and complain or take legal action because they are all hoping to have their foot in the door for that supposed chance at a real position.

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