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Thread: Bubsy: The Woolies Strike Back (PS4, PC)

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    For me, the criticism comes from a place for retread fatigue. I'm tired of remakes in general, and in this case, even if they can make a good Bubsy game, why make a Bubsy game instead of a new IP?

    Obviously, the answer is that it brings instant attention to the project thanks to Bubsy's notoriety while lowering expectations by association. It's not a path that engages someone like me who is content to spend his money on old games instead. I'd be far more interested in a truly new project than another remake or re-imagining of anything nonetheless a property I never dug in the first place... and I'm not one of these hipster folks intrigued by the irony of bringing back a crap IP triumphantly. Not calling anyone out there, either, just saying why I don't care.

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    New game or not, the character and premise and such are all the same, and people hate the character. That's shallow perhaps, but people enjoy games for more than just their gameplay. What makes Bubsy different from something like Giana Sisters is that the previous Giana Sisters games were good. They also had excellent music, and Giana Sisters DS had cute art as well. And the characters are charming enough. I backed the Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams Kickstarter campaign to the tune of $100 or some such. That was the only way to get a physical copy at the time, and it was long before the game was on anything but PC. Even though I basically hated gaming on PC at the time, especially for action games, I made an exception for Twisted Dreams because the series had established good faith, and the Black Forest Games staff had already worked on the series previously with good results. And I backed at a tier that would get me extra goodies because I wanted items with art like in the DS game (which was only really the case with the mouse pad but whatev), and I knew I'd like the OST because I had faith that it would be more quality music from Huelsbeck (and arrangements by Machinae Supremacy, who already had a Great Giana Sisters cover under their belts).

    Most people rely on past experience to guide their video game purchases, unless it's something really cheap (which I'd say is $30 or less, disqualifying the physical release of the new Bubsy game), whether it's experience with the developer, series, artist, composer, or what have you. For me, I had positive experiences in all those areas with Giana Sisters. Meanwhile, I've had nothing but bad experiences relating to Bubsy, leaving the only saving grace being Black Forest Games. But then I have to question if I can stomach being actively aggravated by a shitty character that I hate and a franchise that only conjures up negative memories for me to get whatever enjoyment I could out of Black Forest's controls and level design and such. And then when I look at the LE, Black Forest Games has no impact on a post card and "business card". Those are purely for people who actually enjoy the character and his humor, and I seriously question how many people like that are out there. Likewise, Black Forest Games has no role in the music. Maybe they employed a composer who worked on other games for them, I don't know. As long as that information isn't readily accessible, I have to consider the possibility that BFG and/or Accolade got the composer/s who worked on the old Bubsy games back, and considering those games have awful music, I can't picture who would want a physical OST of Bubsy music either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celerystalker View Post
    For me, the criticism comes from a place for retread fatigue. I'm tired of remakes in general, and in this case, even if they can make a good Bubsy game, why make a Bubsy game instead of a new IP?

    Obviously, the answer is that it brings instant attention to the project thanks to Bubsy's notoriety while lowering expectations by association. It's not a path that engages someone like me who is content to spend his money on old games instead. I'd be far more interested in a truly new project than another remake or re-imagining of anything nonetheless a property I never dug in the first place... and I'm not one of these hipster folks intrigued by the irony of bringing back a crap IP triumphantly. Not calling anyone out there, either, just saying why I don't care.

    On the one hand I'm all with you when it comes to retro-rehashes of old IPs, and I would go even further: are a LOT (not all) 2D-games by smaller developers rehashes and copycats of 2D-gameplay we had during the 8-bit- and 16-bit-eras? Overall, there are not a lot of new gamedesigns and new gameplay elements of the games we (thankfully) get on physical disc. (Limbo and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons and a few others are wonderful exceptions, I just played this game last week and was truly impressed.)

    On the other hand I'm glad that we got Lumo, Song of the Deep, Shovel Knight, Sine Mora EX and so many others on physical disc. I'm enjoying these games a lot, and I was already glad when we got Gradius V, R-Type Final, Contra Shattered Soldier and a few others for the PS2 although your criticism would apply to them as well. They were already back then a hommage to the great 16-bit games and a journey into the past. Even the great Rayman games and Gianna Sisters are nothing truly new although they are great and well executed games.

    I'm with you, however, that these so called 'retro'-games are too many in the meantime. The success of these games point to a serious flaw in modern game-design. Current games hardly deliver when it comes to simplicity, challenge, rewarding experience, playfulness and hidden puzzle-elements these games have to offer. Why younger people buy them I don't know. Partially it is retro-fashion, partially because of the simple fun these games deliver. Already 15 years ago I was surprised when a couple of colleges students told me that they play Joust and love it.

    The Bubsy-IP was certainly chosen because of its retro-fashionable recognition sparking attention, here I'm totally agree with you; but I don't see the necessity to create new IPs when it comes to these games, and in the case of Bubsy it would be almost a new IP if the games turn out to be great platformers considering how bad the old games were.

    I'm just saying give this game a chance. If this will be another great platformer I'm all for it, Bubsy or a new IP doesn't matter for me in this case. The gameplay will be a rehash and there won't be a lot of innovation like for the vast majority of the indie-games today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    New game or not, the character and premise and such are all the same, and people hate the character. That's shallow perhaps, but people enjoy games for more than just their gameplay. What makes Bubsy different from something like Giana Sisters is that the previous Giana Sisters games were good. They also had excellent music, and Giana Sisters DS had cute art as well. And the characters are charming enough. I backed the Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams Kickstarter campaign to the tune of $100 or some such. That was the only way to get a physical copy at the time, and it was long before the game was on anything but PC. Even though I basically hated gaming on PC at the time, especially for action games, I made an exception for Twisted Dreams because the series had established good faith, and the Black Forest Games staff had already worked on the series previously with good results. And I backed at a tier that would get me extra goodies because I wanted items with art like in the DS game (which was only really the case with the mouse pad but whatev), and I knew I'd like the OST because I had faith that it would be more quality music from Huelsbeck (and arrangements by Machinae Supremacy, who already had a Great Giana Sisters cover under their belts).Most people rely on past experience to guide their video game purchases, unless it's something really cheap (which I'd say is $30 or less, disqualifying the physical release of the new Bubsy game), whether it's experience with the developer, series, artist, composer, or what have you. For me, I had positive experiences in all those areas with Giana Sisters. Meanwhile, I've had nothing but bad experiences relating to Bubsy, leaving the only saving grace being Black Forest Games. But then I have to question if I can stomach being actively aggravated by a shitty character that I hate and a franchise that only conjures up negative memories for me to get whatever enjoyment I could out of Black Forest's controls and level design and such. And then when I look at the LE, Black Forest Games has no impact on a post card and "business card". Those are purely for people who actually enjoy the character and his humor, and I seriously question how many people like that are out there. Likewise, Black Forest Games has no role in the music. Maybe they employed a composer who worked on other games for them, I don't know. As long as that information isn't readily accessible, I have to consider the possibility that BFG and/or Accolade got the composer/s who worked on the old Bubsy games back, and considering those games have awful music, I can't picture who would want a physical OST of Bubsy music either.
    I won't let bad memories come in the way of enjoying a potentially good game. I rented the first Bubsy after it was released and played halfway through the game. It was subpar for sure, and I have certainly not good memories about the game.

    But shouldn't we always give a game a chance even for current games although the predecessor wasn't a good game? In the case of Bubsy it will be a sequel to games more than twenty years old. Even Bubsy who made a lot of mistakes when he was a teenager deserves a second chance!

    I certainly won't judge this new game based on the quality of games which were released more than twenty years ago. The association with the Bubsy character and gameplay of the old games will be almost zero for me.

    When it comes to music, game design, controls and potentially 'cool attitudes' of the mascots of the 90s, shouldn't we wait with judgement calls until the game is released? There might be new composers who have done a great job. Very often the hiring of old composers and game directors are good PR, but as long as I know that a great developer like Black Forest games made the game I have confidence that this will be a good game. These guys care about the quality of their games.

    But you never know until we play the game. It might be fantastic, it might be awful or something in between. I won't make any judgement calls and have hyped expecations or terrible expectations until I have my controller in my hands and can play the game.

    The cheap merchandise for Bubsy in the special edition is certainly a stretch considering the old games, but this is more a trivial issue for me. It's all in the game, if there is a watch, cards, plushie, or a risky art book in there doesn't matter to me.
    Last edited by lendelin; 09-03-2017 at 01:12 AM.

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    I'm not preemptively deeming it a bad game. Black Forest Games very well may do a good job with their role in it. My point is that it's too big of a gamble for me and for many others, and I think BFG's efforts would've been better put toward an IP that people don't already hate and never needed a revival. I don't think games "deserve" anything. They're commercial products. If a series burns its customers again and again, it doesn't deserve to be approached with just as open of a mind as a new game in a series with a good reputation. It may be easy for you to dismiss your memories of the series when you only briefly played the first game via a rental, but many others played more games in the series, put much more time into them, and spent much more money on them. It would perhaps serve Accolade well if they owned up to their past mistakes and promised that the new game would be an entirely different experience, but instead, they've gone with the baffling marketing approach of pretending that the old games are actually well-loved and pitching the new game to the rare few who actually are nostalgic about Bubsy. If they're trying to appeal to those who actually liked the old games, that should be a huge red flag to anyone who doesn't like the old games and doesn't want the new game to be like them. And in the same breath that they market the new game, they push sales of the Steam ports of the first two, which play just as bad as ever, further showing how thoroughly out of touch they are with reality.

    I won't make calls on controls and level design and such without playing the game, but there are some things I can know in advance that I'd dislike about the new game. I hate the character, and seeing him rendered in modern 3D doesn't change that. I still dislike looking at him and also the stupid Woolies. Everything about the art design is unappealing to me. It's the same old grating sound effects too, and the music in the trailer didn't impress me either. And considering the trailer is loaded with nauseatingly unfunny quips, I'm sure they're peppered through the game as well. I also see a number of returning mechanics, like the gliding, which worked terribly in the old games. It doesn't replace the experience of actually playing a game, but trailers are informational and can allow potential customers to make some calls on what they would or wouldn't like about a game.

    As for the LE, what really gets me about it is that games like Sonic Mania and the Secret of Mana remake are digital-only in the US, while an IP that practically no one likes gets an LE. Not really related, but it does give off the feeling like the priorities of the industry are entirely ass backwards.

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    I think there's an enormous difference in a 20 year dormant Bubsy revival and the likes of Contra: Shattered Soldier, R-Type Final, and Gradius V. Those games all come from well-loved and venerated franchises, and brought further reasons with them. Contra touted the involvemrnt of the series' creators as a return to its roots, and wasn't dormant for more than a few years. Gradius V had the involvement of G.Rev hot off of the well-received in Japan Border Down, and had just a couple of years prior had the first US release of Gradius IV. R-Type was bringing more than just the return of R-Type about 5 years after Delta, but was also bringing together Irem's rich shooter history with inclusion of ships and easter eggs from their back catalog like Image Fight, X-Multiply, etc. These are all series that already had strong histories and fan bases (aside from the PS1 Contras), and were accompanied by other hooks.

    Bubsy, on the other hand, never had a strong core fan base. It hasn't had a new game in over 20 years, and nobody was writing nostalgia pieces about it aside from a chance to mock the franchise. There isn't a new hook or reason other than exploiting the notoriety of the IP. Even if they make a serviceable or perhaps great game, the character only has the potential for ironic appeal, and I'm not into that. Aero the Acrobat and Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel played great, and I didn't like those themes, either. They could make a silky-smooth platformer with clever level design, but it would still have a theme I don't care to play. I don't want new Awesome Possum, I don't need new Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, and I don't need new Bubsy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post

    I won't make calls on controls and level design and such without playing the game, but there are some things I can know in advance that I'd dislike about the new game. I hate the character, and seeing him rendered in modern 3D doesn't change that. I still dislike looking at him and also the stupid Woolies. Everything about the art design is unappealing to me. It's the same old grating sound effects too, and the music in the trailer didn't impress me either. And considering the trailer is loaded with nauseatingly unfunny quips, I'm sure they're peppered through the game as well. I also see a number of returning mechanics, like the gliding, which worked terribly in the old games. It doesn't replace the experience of actually playing a game, but trailers are informational and can allow potential customers to make some calls on what they would or wouldn't like about a game.
    I'm really surprised what kind of emotions this terribly failed mascot invokes after more than twenty years.

    I can't really understand these strong feelings towards a game character. I never loved or hated small sprites, I love my spouse, and I despise a few people I had to deal with in my life.

    I take every trailer (movies and games) not only with a grain of salt but with a shaker of salt. A trailer gives you a first impression predominantly about the graphics and also certain moves and gameplay mechanics, nothing more and nothing less. How the gameplay actually is, how the game plays indeed we can only judge when we sit in front of our TVs with a controller in our hands. The graphical style has a lot of similarities with Giana Sisters, and that's a good thing. Black Forest Games is the developer, and tha makes me carefully optimistic about the game. They might have done even the gliding you despise so much a great gameplay mechanic. Who knows? We know when we'll play the game.

    Bubsy is a strange IP to revive because of its bad heritage and because it was deservedly dead for such a long time; on the other hand the little poor guy became a bit of an icon for an awfully hyped and failed attempt to create a mascot in the 90s and some people made fun of it in recent years. (Didn't he make the EGM cover? I should look through my 1993 magazines) He has recognition value albeit a negative one, but I think this little icon therefore has the potential to be a success and surprise everyone IF the game is very good.

    Most importantly, the game is an offering which will be sold in a normal way. If the game turns out bad, good - I'll put it then on my retro-PS4-list and will buy it for $5 one day. If the game turns out to be good, I'll buy it and play it. No harm done.

    Btw, I played not only the first Bubsy but also Bubsy II which I both rented back then. I didn't buy them because they were bad games. (nver played the PS1 game) I don't think, however, that gamers who paid money for the games in the 90s have terribly strong feelings after such a long time towards the poor little guy.

    Slowly I'm rooting for him secretly because he is confronted with hate, after all, he is just your next-door bobcat. First beaten by Mario and Sonic, terribly failed, and still hated.

    Maybe for game characters goes the same as for politicians: 'Better despised than forgotten.'


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    Last edited by lendelin; 09-04-2017 at 11:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celerystalker View Post
    I think there's an enormous difference in a 20 year dormant Bubsy revival and the likes of Contra: Shattered Soldier, R-Type Final, and Gradius V. Those games all come from well-loved and venerated franchises, and brought further reasons with them. Contra touted the involvemrnt of the series' creators as a return to its roots, and wasn't dormant for more than a few years. Gradius V had the involvement of G.Rev hot off of the well-received in Japan Border Down, and had just a couple of years prior had the first US release of Gradius IV. R-Type was bringing more than just the return of R-Type about 5 years after Delta, but was also bringing together Irem's rich shooter history with inclusion of ships and easter eggs from their back catalog like Image Fight, X-Multiply, etc. These are all series that already had strong histories and fan bases (aside from the PS1 Contras), and were accompanied by other hooks.

    Bubsy, on the other hand, never had a strong core fan base. It hasn't had a new game in over 20 years, and nobody was writing nostalgia pieces about it aside from a chance to mock the franchise. There isn't a new hook or reason other than exploiting the notoriety of the IP. Even if they make a serviceable or perhaps great game, the character only has the potential for ironic appeal, and I'm not into that. Aero the Acrobat and Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel played great, and I didn't like those themes, either. They could make a silky-smooth platformer with clever level design, but it would still have a theme I don't care to play. I don't want new Awesome Possum, I don't need new Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, and I don't need new Bubsy.
    I'm aware that Bubsy isn't a strong franchise like Gradius or Contra. I just referred to these PS2 games because they were rehashes of old gameplay considering the retro-fatigue of today. As a matter of fact, I think that Bubsy is still unfavorably remembered because it was a terribly hyped game (by EGM and GamePro in particular) marketed with merchandise and even movie aspirations, and then a terribly bad game was the result. The gap between expectations and actual game quality was big to say the least.

    This, however, doesn't make him a bad IP to renew if the game is lighthearted, ironic, a parody of the 90s mascots and most importantly IF the game turns out to be a good platformer. Black Forest games is the developer, and this makes me carfully optimistic.

    Nah, the bad past of a more than twenty year old franchise doesn't disqualify it for a renewed effort playing on game nostalgia.

    I see it way more relaxed. If the game is good, great. If the game is bad, nothing lost and it will fail.

    Let's wait and see. We can make a deal: If the game turns out really well, I'll buy a Bubsy plushie for you and Aussie2B and I'll send it to you both. You might learn to love the little failed mascot if it sits on your couch or on a shelf in your gameroom.

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    As this forum makes very clear, people buy and play games long past their initial releases. I don't think I even knew of Bubsy's existence until past the year 2000. It was 2012 when I played through the first Bubsy for the first (and hopefully last) time. It's not all distant memories for everyone. Just the fact that the first two games were recently put on Steam proves that Bubsy isn't just a 20-some-year-old memory.

    Video games characters are more than just a collection of pixels or polygons. Character design is art, and everybody has art like they like and dislike. Those designs are then given personalities and backstories and such. There are entire genres of games that are primarily sold on the appeal of the characters and what happens to them. It's obviously less critical in platformers, but you still want to like and enjoy controlling the protagonist. Part of the success of franchises like Mario and Sonic is that the stars are endearing.

    Like I said in my first post in this topic, the HG101 article best sums up how horribly off-putting the character is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    As this forum makes very clear, people buy and play games long past their initial releases. I don't think I even knew of Bubsy's existence until past the year 2000. It was 2012 when I played through the first Bubsy for the first (and hopefully last) time. It's not all distant memories for everyone. Just the fact that the first two games were recently put on Steam proves that Bubsy isn't just a 20-some-year-old memory.

    Video games characters are more than just a collection of pixels or polygons. Character design is art, and everybody has art like they like and dislike. Those designs are then given personalities and backstories and such. There are entire genres of games that are primarily sold on the appeal of the characters and what happens to them. It's obviously less critical in platformers, but you still want to like and enjoy controlling the protagonist. Part of the success of franchises like Mario and Sonic is that the stars are endearing.

    Like I said in my first post in this topic, the HG101 article best sums up how horribly off-putting the character is.
    I think we should just be honest here and acknowledge that the company that bought the Bubsy IP did so very cheaply and are now looking to cash in on it. Black Forest is just a contractor here and while I hope given their track record they have created a game that plays well, it doesn't change the fact that this is just a cash in on the IP holder's part with a character many of us don't enjoy in any way.

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    Yeah, I had noticed that Accolade had been acquired by a Hong Kong company. I wonder if the culture gap is a factor in how clueless they are about the fact that, no, Bubsy is not this beloved classic 90s franchise that gamers are nostalgic about. It could be that they're looking at sales to draw that conclusion, since I imagine the first Bubsy at least did get good sales given the insane hype machine behind it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I think we should just be honest here and acknowledge that the company that bought the Bubsy IP did so very cheaply and are now looking to cash in on it. Black Forest is just a contractor here and while I hope given their track record they have created a game that plays well, it doesn't change the fact that this is just a cash in on the IP holder's part with a character many of us don't enjoy in any way.
    Yes. That's where I've found my bad attitude for this one comes from. It feels extremely exploitative in the worst way. Even uf it is an ironic send up, how do you even do that and still have it fun? Besides, that's been done. It was called Conker's Bad Fur Day.

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    This rally and strong feelings about poor Bubsy are from humorous to ridiculous.

    I could understand that some of you ask why this mascot was revived and that its all about money, but what is NOT about money in the game industry since the 70s?

    If I had one dollar for every marketing hype and created cash cow in the last three decades, I'd have some more money by now.

    I roll very often my eyes about completely unnecessary re-releases, but I don't make a little Greek tragedy of hate out of it and discover suddenly that this industry is about money while I defend some other current nonsensical money making machines.

    The most recent example: Nighttrap.

    Nighttrap was a waste of money back then (I played it even before the Senate hearings of 93) and it is still today. It is a boring game, it was laughable, at times ridiculous, and only modestly well reviewed by a few (!) critics. The ones who were forgivin about gameplay were in awe about grainy FMV, while everyone of the critics admitted that it was a disaster from a gameplay standpoint. (a couple of black sheep were the exceptions) Today you'd say the metacritics score might be a 6 out of ten saved by FMV, when you read the reviews it was about a 4 out of ten for the gameplay.

    In short: It was a terribly boring game, at times unintentionally humorous.

    Thanks to the Senate hearings and Herb Kohl and Joe Lieberman the games' sales was boosted, and it become a footnote in game history. The game became a negative icon for the expressed stupidity and nonsense of 'concerned' parental groups about videogame violence and the resultant ratings for videogames.

    If not for the Senate hearings, this game would have been buried in the graveyard for very bad games, hardly remembered.

    There was no reason to re-release this disaster of a game other than the minor role that it plays in game history and for the fact it became a negative icon. The historical significance doesn't even justify a re-release with cleaned up videos, the original game in all its graininess is sufficient and speaks and play volumes. The documentation about the game was interesting but wasn't part of the package, and that it is remembered in game history is necessary, but the documentation and reading the protocols of 1993 (which are btw VERY interestiing) would be more than sufficcinet for the historical significance of the game, certainly NOT a re-release which served the only purpose to make money.

    I didn't rally about Nighttrap and shook my fist about the game industry. I find the basic salesmodel of LR more than questionable hurting a growing niche market. However, I didn't post lamentations about this specific release although it was utterly unnecessary and Limited Run made a cash cow out of it even selling this thing in a ridiculously overpriced CE.

    Some of you very harsh critics about a ridiculously unimportant Bubsy revival bought the unnecessary and terribly overpriced CE of Nighttrap in a 90 seconds sales window making a happy dance that you actually got the game.

    Negative icon here, negative icon there, cash cow here, cash cow there, unnecessary re-release here, unnecessary revival there. The only difference between the two cases back then was the marketing effort (intentionally by Accolade, unintentionally by the Senate), today the diffrence is a re-release with better quality FMV and the development of a entirely new game based on an old IP. In both cases the marketing efforts, here voluntarily and there involuntarily, were exploited again to make money. After all, it is only because of the Senate hearings that a so called 'cult-following' who hardly knows and experienced the game was milked for their money by the altruistic Limited Run. It is ironic that the same people who critisize a CE of Bubsy forked over money for the CE of Nighttrap. Bias, here we come.

    Here you are raging and raving about an unimportant revival of a game character while spending money on a completely unnecessary re-release of an utter disappointment of a game. If you ask me, I prefer the revival of a game character given to a very good developer (which created with Giana Sisters a game on the same high level than the Rayman games) over a 'cleaned up'-version of a truly bad game whose historical significance doesn't justify a re-release in the least.

    In my opinion, both releases are not important and not worth a discussion, they just deserve to be mentioned. The only reason I'm posting this is the biased selection of the criticism and the completely over-the-top criticism about poor Bubsy.

    So, this was the first and last serious post about Bubsy. Guys, have some humor and don't take everything so seriously in the game industry, there are some really bad things going on right now you should be concerned about, a new game of little Bubsy is not one of them.

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    Lendelin raised some very salient points here. Whether we like or not, whether we admit it or not, whether we realize it or not, the video game industry is an industry; it's out to make money. Companies are out to exploit (though not necessarily in the negative, predatory manner that the word connotates) the market and us consumers.

    I'm not particularly happy that Bubsy is getting a revival, even a tongue-in-cheek 'ironic' one. I'm hoping that it is enjoyably and playable, and wouldn't mind all that much if it redeems the franchise a bit. I doubt that it will vindicate it in any form; the series was at best annoying and mediocre before now, and nothing can change that. But at the end of the day...

    I don't really care. There is a very remote possibility I'll try it out on a friend's machine someday if it gets released, but I don't want to buy the thing, since time and money spent on that is better spent on building and playing through the Backlog of Glory. I'd much rather have frothing rants about the Secret of Mana remake (no physical outside of Japan?! WOE BETIDE YE!) or something that y'know, most of us would might actually play. We really need to stop losing our minds and go back to our games, the games we have and care about, at least until the blasted thing comes out (or doesn't, it might be a big trolling effort, or get quashed so hard in development that it becomes a big trolling effort). Do something productive, like pick on WulfeLuer since he's a deranged Square oldschool fantard that's butthurt that the SNES Mini is missing Chrono Trigger.
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    I'm not sure where the "Greek Tragedy" part of this thread is. It's basically a handful of people saying, "Boo, Bubsy sucks to the point where it isn't even fun to pick on him anymore," and the retort of, "Come on, guys, it might not be so bad!" "Nope, don't care. This is dumb." "Oh, come now, it might be okay!" There isn't real drama here, just a mascot that draws more cynicism among some of us than others.

    The Greek Tragedy happened in the LRG thread. It had massive monologues, name calling, and as soon as you thought it was over, another act would rear its head.

    The comedy is in that the roles of the players have flipped. The folks who said, "Hey, its just business, let companies try to make their money," in that thead are annoyed at Bubsy's IP holder for trying to make a comeback, myself included. The golks decrying LRG as the enemy of all consumers are in this thread saying, "Just give them a chance to make their money or not."

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    Quote Originally Posted by celerystalker View Post
    I'm not sure where the "Greek Tragedy" part of this thread is. It's basically a handful of people saying, "Boo, Bubsy sucks to the point where it isn't even fun to pick on him anymore," and the retort of, "Come on, guys, it might not be so bad!" "Nope, don't care. This is dumb." "Oh, come now, it might be okay!" There isn't real drama here, just a mascot that draws more cynicism among some of us than others.
    Exactly. This topic has been derailed and devolved into a defense of the right to think this release and everything about how it's being marketed and sold isn't warranted and to hold preexisting feelings about the character and franchise rather than treating it as if it's a brand-new IP or belonging to a franchise with a good reputation, and it's just absurd that it has to come to that in the first place. I wouldn't conflate that with caring or being bothered so deeply about this. In fact, before this topic took this pointless turn, most of the criticism was a little overblown for the sake of comedy, but that seems to be lost on certain individuals. Likewise, this has nothing to do with other publishers and their releases which weren't even bought, let alone exalted, by the people participating in this topic. Even if they had, shock and awe, people like some games and dislike others. It wouldn't make someone a hypocrite to dislike Bubsy but like some other game that wasn't well-received, or the other way around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    Exactly. This topic has been derailed and devolved into a defense of the right to think this release and everything about how it's being marketed and sold isn't warranted and to hold preexisting feelings about the character and franchise rather than treating it as if it's a brand-new IP or belonging to a franchise with a good reputation, and it's just absurd that it has to come to that in the first place. I wouldn't conflate that with caring or being bothered so deeply about this. In fact, before this topic took this pointless turn, most of the criticism was a little overblown for the sake of comedy, but that seems to be lost on certain individuals. Likewise, this has nothing to do with other publishers and their releases which weren't even bought, let alone exalted, by the people participating in this topic. Even if they had, shock and awe, people like some games and dislike others. It wouldn't make someone a hypocrite to dislike Bubsy but like some other game that wasn't well-received, or the other way around.
    Agree. The lectures from a certain forum member are getting a little old. It's really difficult to have a discussion when one of the participants cannot allow for the possibility that people can have vastly different opinions about something and that all of those opinions can be perfectly valid.
    Last edited by Bojay1997; 09-07-2017 at 01:57 PM.

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    Agree. Tolerance is only required if everyone agrees. As soon as someone disagrees it is disrespectful of others.

    That was it for me. I'll ask the administrator to delete my account.

    Bruhahabusinessguy and Aussie2B, you made Digitalpress a very uncomfortable experience. Bruhaha produces with some standard phrases nonsense as soon as someone disagrees with him, and you, Aussie2B, take on the tone of a condescending high school teacher as soon as someone disagrees with you.

    If someone disagrees with you, that doesn't mean an attack on your right to have a different opinion, it is called a discussion. If someone has some better reasonable points than you, that doesn't mean that he cannot respect your opinion. He just disagrees with more intelligent points. It's not hard to understand if you aren't a soft educational dictator who tries to suppress dissenting opinions. If your idea about an exchange of opinions is just to make statements without responding to the reasoning of others, then you are right.

    Jesus, what happened to DP? Isn't it possible to have a normal conversation anymore? Is it only allowed to express opinions if you agree?

    Digitalpress was the only forum I posted because I don't have the time to be on the Internet as much as I would like to, and becasue Digitalpress was once a forum in which you could have intelligent discussions about games.

    I have my games registered on RF Generation, and I posted there maybe every two or three months. I'll post from now on over there. Seems to be a more reasonable site now than this here with the bruhahaguy with lots of business experience (yeah, right!) and with a dominant wannabe intellectual who has the horizon and the tone of a high school teacher. Almost a year ago I posted over there something similar about Limited Run games, a lot of people agreed, some disagreed, but it never became a condescending 'how dare you'-drama like on this site.

    Bruhaha and Aussie2B, feel free to talk amongst yourself from now on. You certainly deserve each other. Don't forget your HATE about poor little Bubsy. It would have been great if, like Aussie2B now claims, the Bubsy-criticism was overblown for the sake of comedy. Instead, I tried to make the point that no-one should take our beloved next-door bobcat too seriously, and all I got were dead-serious comments and lectures about Bubsy. If someone reads the posts of Aussie 2B and discovers the tiniest trace of comedy, I'll give him 100 bucks. I think humor, wit and dissenting opinions are unfortunately almost at point zero on this site now.

    Your goal was to drive a DP-member away, congrats, you succeeded!

    Don't forget: All people with an anti-Bubsy attitude, unite before it is too late!

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    wow you get youre feelings hurt easily !! THHE DRAMA! aussie2b just gave his opinion, I dont see where he was a dick from what i read. Are you the director of this game lendelin ??! I never liked bubsy, but if the game was good i would maybe give it a try, but after seeing the trailer... nope. Those cheesy liners are just awful, and will get old real quick

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    Quote Originally Posted by PreZZ View Post
    wow you get youre feelings hurt easily !! THHE DRAMA! aussie2b just gave his opinion, I dont see where he was a dick from what i read. Are you the director of this game lendelin ??! I never liked bubsy, but if the game was good i would maybe give it a try, but after seeing the trailer... nope. Those cheesy liners are just awful, and will get old real quick
    No drama here. It is not about feelings, it is about intelligence. The posts of these two insult my intelligence. I won't go down stupidity lane with these two!

    I merely asked the administrator to delete my account, that's all. I'm not in the mood anymore to deal with nonsense like 'I have the right to my opinion, every opinion is valid, the thread is derailed to defend the right to express my opinion, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and found your own publishing company?, Why don't you do something productive with your life and change the world?, you can shake your fist as long as you want your opinion doesn't carry any weight and a lot of other stupid standard phrases the bruhaha guy and Aussie2B produce.

    They just can't stand disagreements encountering better reasoning. Then they decide to drive members away. To deal with these two is a waste of time, they dominate the Modern Gaming forum, they should continue to do so and drive members away who dare to disagree with them. IT's ok with me, it is just unfortunate for a site like DigitalPress which I regarded as the best gaming website for a long time.

    I hope the administrator will delete my account, I asked for it, so the wonderful Aussie2B and the big bad businessguy can talk among themselves.

    Jesus, I think I always undersetimated the stupidity of people.

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    One thing about Bubsy is that it really doesn't matter what those of us who've played the past games think, most people who play the game now will have never heard of Bubsy outside of "worst game ever(but seriously, how many worst games ever can there be?")

    The game will either hit its sales quota or not. Journalists being the biased scumbags they are will probably crap all over this game regardless if it's good or not, and half of their written reviews will be how bad the old games are, instead of, you know, forgetting all that and actually putting effort into reviewing the game in question.

    I just don't see the reason for hating on a 25 year old series because it's had some bad games. I don't see threads for Sonic games popping up every time a new game is announced, and alongside the fact that the earlier ones were never really that good, the series has been crap for the longest time. Final Fantasy has been trash for the past decade with the rare good game here and there, but instead of trashing every new release, people give each new release a chance(and even throw tons of undeserving praise at it because it's their favorite franchise.) So why not, instead of complaining about a game we don't know is good or bad, wait until the game is actually released or we atleast see a substantial amount of gameplay, like you'd do for the above games.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    One thing about Bubsy is that it really doesn't matter what those of us who've played the past games think, most people who play the game now will have never heard of Bubsy outside of "worst game ever(but seriously, how many worst games ever can there be?")

    The game will either hit its sales quota or not. Journalists being the biased scumbags they are will probably crap all over this game regardless if it's good or not, and half of their written reviews will be how bad the old games are, instead of, you know, forgetting all that and actually putting effort into reviewing the game in question.

    I just don't see the reason for hating on a 25 year old series because it's had some bad games. I don't see threads for Sonic games popping up every time a new game is announced, and alongside the fact that the earlier ones were never really that good, the series has been crap for the longest time. Final Fantasy has been trash for the past decade with the rare good game here and there, but instead of trashing every new release, people give each new release a chance(and even throw tons of undeserving praise at it because it's their favorite franchise.) So why not, instead of complaining about a game we don't know is good or bad, wait until the game is actually released or we atleast see a substantial amount of gameplay, like you'd do for the above games.
    I actually share your feelings on Sonic and Final.Fantasy, more or less. I think Sonic Adventure was the only one I really liked. I don't get excited for either of those series anymore. As far as my spending and interest goes, they may as well be Bubsy.

    The thing about Bubsy... I don't like sauer kraut. I've tried it several times, in different dishes, and every time, it had made me sick. I can say pretty definitively that sauer kraut isn't for me. So, if someone new comes to me offering sauer kraut, should I eat it again, simply because it's s new cook?

    I don't like Bubsy. I've had three different games to try, and I don't enjoy the character. Just because a new team is involved, should I try Bubsy (or any other game that I've never liked)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    One thing about Bubsy is that it really doesn't matter what those of us who've played the past games think, most people who play the game now will have never heard of Bubsy outside of "worst game ever(but seriously, how many worst games ever can there be?")

    The game will either hit its sales quota or not. Journalists being the biased scumbags they are will probably crap all over this game regardless if it's good or not, and half of their written reviews will be how bad the old games are, instead of, you know, forgetting all that and actually putting effort into reviewing the game in question.

    I just don't see the reason for hating on a 25 year old series because it's had some bad games. I don't see threads for Sonic games popping up every time a new game is announced, and alongside the fact that the earlier ones were never really that good, the series has been crap for the longest time. Final Fantasy has been trash for the past decade with the rare good game here and there, but instead of trashing every new release, people give each new release a chance(and even throw tons of undeserving praise at it because it's their favorite franchise.) So why not, instead of complaining about a game we don't know is good or bad, wait until the game is actually released or we atleast see a substantial amount of gameplay, like you'd do for the above games.
    The problem is that many of us on this forum have actually played all of the Bubsy games and believe none of them were any good. It's not like one of them was great and then the franchise was uneven or just fell apart with later games as arguably has happened with Sonic or Final Fantasy. Part of the fun of a platforming game for me is actually enjoying the character and world that character inhabits. I personally never liked Bubsy as I always found the level design derivative and the character himself wasn't clever or funny, but was literally a hybrid of what Accolade thought would work given the success of Sonic and other mascot franchises. From my perspective, there are just too many other great games out there to waste time and money on something that at best will be a mediocre retread of other platform games with a character I don't enjoy. It's fine to reserve judgment and by all means nobody should feel pressured not to buy the game if they think it is something they are interested in playing. On the other hand, nobody should feel pressured to give this game a chance just because that's what other people think they should do for whatever reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    The problem is that many of us on this forum have actually played all of the Bubsy games and believe none of them were any good. It's not like one of them was great and then the franchise was uneven or just fell apart with later games as arguably has happened with Sonic or Final Fantasy. Part of the fun of a platforming game for me is actually enjoying the character and world that character inhabits. I personally never liked Bubsy as I always found the level design derivative and the character himself wasn't clever or funny, but was literally a hybrid of what Accolade thought would work given the success of Sonic and other mascot franchises. From my perspective, there are just too many other great games out there to waste time and money on something that at best will be a mediocre retread of other platform games with a character I don't enjoy. It's fine to reserve judgment and by all means nobody should feel pressured not to buy the game if they think it is something they are interested in playing. On the other hand, nobody should feel pressured to give this game a chance just because that's what other people think they should do for whatever reason.
    This. I agree. We all need to step back for a while.

    I'm actually a bit shocked at the reactions coming out over all this. My last post was serious, but with some self-deprecating attempts to get some laughs and defuse things a tad. There's nothing wrong with reasoned discourse or dissenting opinions; breaking out the whetstone keeps the tools sharp. Properly taking apart an engine, examining the components, and using newer better parts in rebuilding it can redeem an old junker into a kickawesome muscle car. It can be a lot of work, can be uncomfortable, and often requires a fair bit of aggravation all around. But there comes a time when you're dulling the edge, or whacking a perfectly good manifold cover with a bigass wrench because you were insane and tried to fix a Mopar engine with just SAE tools.

    It's time to button up and let the project sit for a while before we decide to try covering the whetstone with black silicone or something. Let's see what a bit of time and space does. If we keep on arguing, fine, but at least try to keep the knee-jerk reactions and vitriol down. This Bubsy business isn't a sudden crisis, it isn't even a new situation, it's part of ongoing circumstances, and no amount of griping is going to fix it.
    Last edited by WulfeLuer; 09-08-2017 at 02:24 AM.
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    lendelin requested his account be closed. It has been.

    By the way, from now on, I/we are not going to accept any more "close my account" requests. If you don't want to use your account or this forum, then just don't use it. If you don't want to see e-mail reminders, then just unsubscribe from them. There's no good reason to ask for an account to be closed other than trying to make a statement.

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