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Thread: EmuParadise has removed its entire library of retro game ROMs and ISOs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg2600 View Post
    Guys, I already said pirating current games is a no-no, yes that hurts the publishers. However, what I and most have argued is for totally defunct properties and games. The overwhelming majority are not re-released in any form.

    I'm not defending the legality, more the practicality. I know it's infringement, but don't give me a counter argument about lost royalties or harming re-releases, because that's simply not the case.
    Yeah I agree. Like with Nintendo NES games, there was a time when they sold on the shelves for 40-70$ each. And that was 30 or so years ago. The companies who produced them made some $$ then everybody moved onto something else. Many if not most games will never be re-released in a 'legit' form; and old cart based games will never be re-released in cart form. At this point people should just enjoy roms/emulators/flashcarts without some major ethical dilemma. Like if you wanted to play a game like Little Samson, what options do you have? Buy a cart for thousands of dollars or just play a rom. Either way, anyone who had anything to do creating the original game gets no support. And its a game that can be completed from start to finish in about an hour. Most nes/oldskool cart games are very small files/small games, so when Nintendo sells u emulated games on the virtual console for 5-20$ apiece its just a ripoff (just keeping it reals). Look at how cheap Steam games are in comparison.

    I just hope someday we get that Low G Man collector's edition re-release.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg2600 View Post
    Difference is the Van Gogh is available
    Wrong. Historic paintings are less available than even the rarest of video games. Even the rarest ROMs i.e. Nintendo World Championsuip, number in the hundreds. If it were really at the point where no one ever bothered to dump the ROM, there would be 1 person out of the hundreds of NWC owners who would be willing to dump it for Nintendo, and the cart owner could get paid by Nintendo to do so.

    What I have an issue with is that none of the ROM hosters are paying royalties to the people whose products they are profiting from. Video game brick and mortar stores suffer in part because of the piracy. It also legitimizes the "repro" (counterfeit) carts which I have an even bigger problem with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbpxl View Post
    Wrong. Historic paintings are less available than even the rarest of video games. Even the rarest ROMs i.e. Nintendo World Championsuip, number in the hundreds. If it were really at the point where no one ever bothered to dump the ROM, there would be 1 person out of the hundreds of NWC owners who would be willing to dump it for Nintendo, and the cart owner could get paid by Nintendo to do so.

    What I have an issue with is that none of the ROM hosters are paying royalties to the people whose products they are profiting from. Video game brick and mortar stores suffer in part because of the piracy. It also legitimizes the "repro" (counterfeit) carts which I have an even bigger problem with.
    First of all, you pay the museum to see what's inside, because it keeps the doors open. It's a non-profit organization, so again, not an appropriate example. As for the hosting sites, technically they should not be making money. Hell, Internet Archive tried to host roms and had issues with Nickle and Diming Nintendo, and they're a non-profit interested in preservation. There's no mechanism for paying royalties, because the publishers haven't created one. The RIAA finally wised up, and did so for music, and now MP3's are almost never downloaded. I don't see that happening for games though.

    Brick and mortar? Well, I know for certain that the demand for NES and SNES carts fell off a cliff in the last couple years, after the Classic Mini's were released. Emulation, flash/multi-card's, didn't have much of an effect, but those products sure did. Repro's? Ehhh, that's an infinitesimal niche at this point. Most carts are plenty available and cheaper than what a repro would cost. Again, I already said that sites should not use game artwork and IP to promote themselves. I said they shouldn't be making a giant profit from ads (tough to really police that) over expenses to host. But, my point remains, that if you eliminate rom distribution, it's a BAD thing for the gaming industry as well as the community.
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    it harms the used video game stores because why spend $50 on this game when I can download it (illegally)? I worked at a game store for 9 months. I saw this firsthand.

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    https://www.pcworld.com/article/3296...servation.html

    Nintendo's ridiculous war on ROMs threatens gaming history
    The emulation community plays a crucial role in preserving gaming's history.
    Games need to be preserved
    It’s hard to care about Nintendo’s bottom line when the stakes are the entire industry's historical record though—which brings us to the heart of the issue, game preservation.

    It’s ironic that a digital industry is so terrible at preserving its history. Digital is forever, right? It’s just 1s and 0s, immutable code, ageless. Archiving film or ancient documents or whatever, the problems are physical—celluloid rotting or catching fire, paper succumbing to moisture or falling apart under harsh lights.

    But games? The problem is nobody cared. Or not that nobody cared, but that so few companies cared, and that they continue to not care. The situation’s gotten slightly better in the last decade or so, with remasters and remakes like Crash Bandicoot and Baldur’s Gate II and Homeworld and System Shock reviving classics for a modern audience.

    Remasters cost money though, and are (understandably) meant to make money. Thus we get the one-percent—the games so notorious or so beloved they’ll sell a second, a third, or even a fourth time. They're important games, don’t get me wrong. It’s fantastic that Shadow of the Colossus can still resonate with people in 2018 the way it did in 2005. I never would’ve guessed.

    It's still a self-selecting history though—like buying one of those “Greatest Hits of the ‘80s” CDs and thinking it’s representative of the era. Left to publishers, we will only get Mario and Skyrim and BioShock and so on.

    There’s so much more though—thousands of games, spanning eight console generations and multiple PC platforms, and Nintendo’s actions have endangered all of it. Sure, Nintendo is happy to sell you your fifth copy of Super Mario World or whatever, but what about Shadowrun for the SNES? Tell me where I can buy a legal copy of that. Or how about Secret of Evermore?

    Emulation saved these games for decades, and nobody’s stepped up with an alternative. Not Nintendo, not anyone. If emulation persists, it’s because of a failure on the part of the actual rights-holders, not the audience. Movie and music piracy dropped after the advent of Netflix and Spotify. The convenience of GOG.com wooed countless PC pirates, including myself, from downloading what we used to call “abandonware."

    But GOG.com still covers a mere sliver, and only PC games for the most part. You won't find old NES or SNES games there—not to mention platforms Nintendo doesn’t control. The company that currently calls itself Atari is happy to put out collections of certain top-tier games, but again it’s the core one percent of “classics” people remember. And what about games for the Vectrex? The TurboGrafx? No corporation is saving those. No corporation is bothering with reissues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbpxl View Post
    it harms the used video game stores because why spend $50 on this game when I can download it (illegally)? I worked at a game store for 9 months. I saw this firsthand.
    Honestly why should anyone give a flying fudge about used game stores that try to sell Mario Kart for 70$?


    Quote Originally Posted by Greg2600 View Post
    Again, I already said that sites should not use game artwork and IP to promote themselves. I said they shouldn't be making a giant profit from ads (tough to really police that) over expenses to host. But, my point remains, that if you eliminate rom distribution, it's a BAD thing for the gaming industry as well as the community.
    Unless you own the IPs you shouldnt be making anything off of ROMs.
    At this point you cant really eliminate ROM distribution. Maybe if you flick a switch and turn off every torrent.. no wait you would have to shut down the entire internet.


    Quote Originally Posted by gbpxl View Post
    Even the rarest ROMs i.e. Nintendo World Championsuip, number in the hundreds. If it were really at the point where no one ever bothered to dump the ROM, there would be 1 person out of the hundreds of NWC owners who would be willing to dump it for Nintendo, and the cart owner could get paid by Nintendo to do so.
    If I were to make a rarity guide for Nintendo ROMs it would go something like this; on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the rarest) every single rom = rarity of 1.
    Last edited by bb_hood; 08-12-2018 at 06:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbpxl View Post
    it harms the used video game stores because why spend $50 on this game when I can download it (illegally)? I worked at a game store for 9 months. I saw this firsthand.
    I remember people making this argument years ago when rom sites first started appearing. That hasn't really played out that way though. I recall *someone* recently complaining about the cost of retro games. The thing is, if anything, I'd say that they have fueled the retrogaming trend. Right or wrong, they are part of the culture now. But as that article had to constantly concede, Nintendo was completely in their right here.

    Specifically though, I'd say that someone who couldn't justify spending $50 on a used game because they could just download the rom, also wouldn't justify spending $50 on a used game whether there was a rom available or not.

    But on the topic of used game stores, I also recall publishers being upset that they didn't get a cut of used game sales.
    Last edited by jb143; 08-12-2018 at 07:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parallaxscroll View Post
    Sure, Nintendo is happy to sell you your fifth copy of Super Mario World or whatever, but what about Shadowrun for the SNES? Tell me where I can buy a legal copy of that
    Ebay?... countless retro game stores?...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb_hood View Post
    Honestly why should anyone give a flying fudge about used game stores that try to sell Mario Kart for 70$?
    Because in a free market system, prices are determined by what people are willing to pay and the store owners are operating a legitimate business as opposed to these dipshits making a living off of other people's hard work?

    in response to everyone else... whatever... I can't win. yeah whatever, make every game free. fuck that whole copyright thing. the games are expensive and screw the legitimate mom and pop stores that are probably gonna go under because I use RetroPi and EverDrive, and screw Nintendo's Virtual Console store- they're rich anyways

    it seems the people who hated Metallica for being mad at people for not paying for their music in the early 2000's have decided to turn their attention to video games

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbpxl View Post
    as opposed to these dipshits making a living off of other people's hard work?
    I dont think thats right, that was my main point. There will always be a market for retro games as collectibles, and playing/downloading roms will not affect that.
    You can copy and paste the Nintendo world Championship rom a million times and it wont make an original cart any less desirable or less rare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbpxl View Post
    in response to everyone else... whatever... I can't win. yeah whatever, make every game free. fuck that whole copyright thing. the games are expensive and screw the legitimate mom and pop stores that are probably gonna go under because I use RetroPi and EverDrive, and screw Nintendo's Virtual Console store- they're rich anyways
    But see, that's my whole point. People ARE buying the games even though they can get them for free. You said it yourself, prices are determined by what people are willing to pay, so people are paying those prices. Prices are higher than ever. And more people are collecting or getting into collecting than ever.

    And the mom and pop stores are selling used games, so it's not like the developers are seeing a dime from those sales either. They too are profiting from other peoples work if you want to look at it that way.

    I'm not saying that it's ok or should be legal. I'm just saying that claiming they do nothing but hurt the community is a bit much...and that Nintendo is probably taking things a bit too far since their cease and desist letters usually seem to do the trick. Did those sites just not comply with them for so long that Nintendo decided to make an example of them?
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    Imagine the prices of retro games if ROMS diddnt exist.

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    You're entitled to your thoughts, but still I feel are misguided....

    Quote Originally Posted by gbpxl View Post
    Because in a free market system, prices are determined by what people are willing to pay and the store owners are operating a legitimate business as opposed to these dipshits making a living off of other people's hard work?

    in response to everyone else... whatever... I can't win. yeah whatever, make every game free. fuck that whole copyright thing. the games are expensive and screw the legitimate mom and pop stores that are probably gonna go under because I use RetroPi and EverDrive, and screw Nintendo's Virtual Console store- they're rich anyways

    it seems the people who hated Metallica for being mad at people for not paying for their music in the early 2000's have decided to turn their attention to video games
    Rebuttal literally took the words out of my mouth!

    Quote Originally Posted by jb143 View Post
    But see, that's my whole point. People ARE buying the games even though they can get them for free. You said it yourself, prices are determined by what people are willing to pay, so people are paying those prices. Prices are higher than ever. And more people are collecting or getting into collecting than ever.

    And the mom and pop stores are selling used games, so it's not like the developers are seeing a dime from those sales either. They too are profiting from other peoples work if you want to look at it that way.

    I'm not saying that it's ok or should be legal. I'm just saying that claiming they do nothing but hurt the community is a bit much...and that Nintendo is probably taking things a bit too far since their cease and desist letters usually seem to do the trick. Did those sites just not comply with them for so long that Nintendo decided to make an example of them?
    ....and yes, LOVEroms thumbed its nose at Nintendo for quite awhile and will likely pay the price.
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    Now that Mickey Mouse is about to rightfully enter the public domain, it's time to revisit copyright law.

    Game programs for depreciated platforms 20+ years old should be in the public domain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentlegamer View Post
    Now that Mickey Mouse is about to rightfully enter the public domain, it's time to revisit copyright law.

    Game programs for depreciated platforms 20+ years old should be in the public domain.
    Steamboat Willy might enter public domain soon, but not the character of Mickey. Disney would never let that happen. If nothing else, they would claim that the character is a corporate trademark that they could own indefinitely.

    But if history tells us anything, copyright law will be revisited and pushed back even further... because of Disney. It's happened a couple times already. 20 years would never happen. Way too short a time frame.
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    Mickey is a Disney trademark, which never expires as long as it used in commerce. Copyrights for games, since they don't usually belong to the author of the game, are good for 95 years I believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb143 View Post
    Steamboat Willy might enter public domain soon, but not the character of Mickey. Disney would never let that happen. If nothing else, they would claim that the character is a corporate trademark that they could own indefinitely.
    Mickey Mouse is entering the public domain. Derivative works based on Steam Boat Willie and Mickey Mouse will be allowed. Trademarks cannot prohibit use of public domain characters or works.

    Patents last for 20 years and protect far more valuable information, there's no reason copyright should last much longer than patents, especially when talking about the actual game programming for depreciated platforms.
    Last edited by Gentlegamer; 08-15-2018 at 06:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentlegamer View Post
    Mickey Mouse is entering the public domain. Derivative works based on Steam Boat Willie and Mickey Mouse will be allowed. Trademarks cannot prohibit use of public domain characters or works.

    Patents last for 20 years and protect far more valuable information, there's no reason copyright should last much longer than patents, especially when talking about the actual game programming for depreciated platforms.
    Yeah, no. Greg2600 is right. The characters are trademarked and legally protected for as long as the company uses them. The individual movies will start slipping into the public domain but not the trademarked characters.

    So what your suggesting is that after 20 years all intellectual property should become public domain? Anyone should be able to make and sell a Mario game or a Mickey cartoon? Anyone should be allowed to use the Coca-Cola logo on their own products? Anyone should be allowed to make a Starwars or Harry Potter film? 20 years just isn't that long.

    And patents are different than copyrights and trademarks. Because they can be more important like you say. Compare a video game character to a life saving drug for example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb143 View Post
    Yeah, no. Greg2600 is right. The characters are trademarked and legally protected for as long as the company uses them. The individual movies will start slipping into the public domain but not the trademarked characters.
    This is correct. Tons and tons of cartoons featuring popular characters have fallen into public domain. That doesn't mean the character itself is PD, just the film.

    That's one reason PD cartoon collections always have shit box artwork, they're not allowed to draw the character in an original pose and must use a direct capture of them from the film.

    People sometimes think public domain films are all just moldy silent films from the early 1900's. PD films include some Gamera, Godzilla, most of the Warner Bros toon characters.

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    While I am totally not endorsing the tons of money changing hands via ad revenue at a site like EmuParadise, I'd rather see Nintendo go after the reproduction cartridge sites and stores that sell unauthorized reproductions first. At least with those it's a straight up, crystal clear, garbage in - garbage out crime with no gray area. In that case it's someone taking the work of someone else, burning a chip, doing a few minutes work, and then boom - "Pay me $$$ for something that isn't mine." Not to mention all the money they make off the people who fan translate games and then distribute the patches for free. In those instances it's both a crime and a middle finger to the romhacking community.

    I will never understand why reproductions get a free pass with so many people who otherwise crusade against bootlegs and champion copyright law.

    As for EmuParadise, I always though the site was a bit of a mess but some interesting binaries have come around over the years thanks to people in their forums. At this point if you're interested in flashcarts, emulation, romhacking, etc. you should have fairly recent No-Intro or comparable sets archived away somewhere.

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