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Thread: Modern remakes

  1. #21
    Alex (Level 15) Custom rank graphic
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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    And Ninja Theory isn't just your small indie dev team working out of their home.
    Most "indie" developers aren't just a couple of people working out of a home basement. WayForward of the Shantae games is considered by most to be an independent developer and they just celebrated their 30th anniversary, and Infinite Fall who just formed to create and release the recent Night in the Woods made the game with around the same number of staff as Ninja Theory. It's a bit odd how they're all considered "indie" studios when their structure and size is how most game developers used to be decades ago, but that's what small studios are today.

    So many "indie" kickstarters are made by industry professionals who have worked in gaming for decades, it's odd to consider these as independent like Bloodstained, Broken Age, Shenmue III, etc. The real small devs you're suggesting who are working out of a home are really close to homebrew programmers, and most releases are near unplayable as most of the Xbox Live Indie Games were. It's just that most of the styles or types of games I personally enjoy happen to be made by indie studios these days, it's not that I love indie studios over anything AAA by default.

    I basically mentioned Hellblade as you mentioned that indie devs can't compete on making graphically intensive games, I found that's not necessarily the case as Ninja Theory did just that. They don't all have to be 2D or uniquely stylish in a graphically limited way.

    Thank you for finding the budget for Hellblade, I tried finding it but couldn't. Their previous games weren't independently funded but I counted this one as they both funded it themselves with a lower budget and reduced the team size to a small number, so at this point they're basically on par with any other indie developer. They still managed to profit after selling 500,000 copies of Hellblade, which I think is a pretty reasonable amount to sell to recoup your costs in development. And then there's Electronic Arts who was "disappointed" when selling 7.3 million copies of Battlefield V as that wasn't enough. It's really hard for me to sympathise with AAA studios complaining about stuff like that when it was incredibly unrealistic for games to sell anywhere near that many in the past.

    There's other good AAA games too, like the recent God of War for PS4. It looks like a well made game and I watched a playthrough of it, it's just not a game I feel I would want to play through myself. It's not that there's no good modern games, but I really have to struggle to think of any that interest me. Looking up Hellblade and God of War again reminded me of another aspect of modern games that I'm not a fan of, most games seem to have a skill tree of some type. Basically every type of game is treated as an RPG or has elements shoved in just to extend the game time through grinding, I don't like having to fiddle around with this stuff when I'm just trying to play a basic action or combat game. Thankfully Hellblade left that out, obviously because of budgetary reasons but the end result is more of an improvement in my opinion. My PC isn't powerful enough to play Hellblade but maybe someday I'll get around to it, otherwise I can watch a playthrough online.

  2. #22
    ServBot (Level 11) Edmond Dantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    @Edmond Dantes
    Complaining that Resident Evil 2 plays like a third person shooter and not a fixed camera angle shooter with tank controls and you'd rather have another fixed camera angle game is more biased if you ask me. You're modern games are the same while also complaining that it doesn't play the same as the orignal. The irony here is pretty strong.
    Except, it's only "irony" if you ignore what I actually said and pretend my entire complaint was "I hate games that play like other games," which no offense but, that's basically what you're doing here.

    I find third-person over-the-shoulder shooters BORING. Moreover, the original gameplay style of RE was unique--even at its height there weren't that many games that played like it (yes there were a lot of RE clones, but they were a small handful even in their own time). So yeah, it bothers me that a style that was pretty unique and which I actually had fun with got replaced with something dime-a-dozen which I find to be a bit of a sleep aid. Is this really such a complicated concept?

    To use your own examples, imagine if the thing you always liked about Mario was the platforming action, and then Nintendo came and said all Mario games henceforth would be Final Fight-style brawlers.

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    Crono (Level 14) Custom rank graphic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond Dantes View Post
    Except, it's only "irony" if you ignore what I actually said and pretend my entire complaint was "I hate games that play like other games," which no offense but, that's basically what you're doing here.

    I find third-person over-the-shoulder shooters BORING. Moreover, the original gameplay style of RE was unique--even at its height there weren't that many games that played like it (yes there were a lot of RE clones, but they were a small handful even in their own time). So yeah, it bothers me that a style that was pretty unique and which I actually had fun with got replaced with something dime-a-dozen which I find to be a bit of a sleep aid. Is this really such a complicated concept?

    To use your own examples, imagine if the thing you always liked about Mario was the platforming action, and then Nintendo came and said all Mario games henceforth would be Final Fight-style brawlers.
    Aside from the fixed camera angles, what's so unique about Resident Evil 2? Nothing. The remake goes back to the same item management style of Resident Evil 2. Resident Evil 7 did this as well. The only difference with Resident Evil 2 is the positioning of the camera angle and now when you do have to shoot enemies, it's skill based instead. No longer just hold L1 and press X for 100% accuracy. That doesn't bother me as that doesn't change how enjoyable Resident Evil 2 is regardless which iteration of the game it is. They both play fairly similar one is just modernized the othern is less modern, but it shows how good the development is that both of these games can be equally as good(even if I myself do prefer the original over the remake.)

    Just watch 10 minutes of this and you'll see just how much location memory and item management there is in the game. This is a HUGE part of the game. Played by myself on hardcore difficulty. https://youtu.be/65roDpv1zT8?t=589

    I often talk about how God Hand is the best beat em up ever made over and over again. One of the very very very few games I'd give a 10/10. That game isn't a shooter yet the camera angle is the same over the shoulder camera angle that you're complaining about. At the same time, I think God of War on PS4 is merely good, despite also being an over the shoulder camera angle and at the time, a beat em up. Kind of like God Hand.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    And Ninja Theory isn't just your small indie dev team working out of their home. It still cost 10 million to make which for example, is half of what the original Uncharted cost to make. However, the response wasn't that larger independent studios can't make these games. Your comment was that a lot of these games look similar and that indie developers have different stylish looking games. How different does Senua's Sacrifice look from many other games, how different does it actually look from their last game; DmC Devil May Cry. Not very honestly. Infact it's even closer to "realism" than many games despite being on a budget, one of your above complaints.

    *edit*

    Now I'm not crapping on the game saying it's a generic game or it's just a repetitive game, because its combat is actually its own, I'm just giving an example of your complaints. I purchased the game because I was interested in it, so there's that. I haven't yet played it. But the game fits the complaints you made and my responses towards that. They made a game on as large of a budget they could and they made something that was closer to the games you were complaining about.
    Ninja Theory isn't indie anyway. Microsoft owns them



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

  5. #25
    Alex (Level 15) Custom rank graphic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryudo View Post
    Ninja Theory isn't indie anyway. Microsoft owns them
    Microsoft bought them after they released Hellblade, I only considered them indie for that one release. The games they made before that were mostly contracted out and paid for by other studios or companies, those games weren't indie either.

    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    Aside from the fixed camera angles, what's so unique about Resident Evil 2? Nothing. The remake goes back to the same item management style of Resident Evil 2. Resident Evil 7 did this as well. The only difference with Resident Evil 2 is the positioning of the camera angle and now when you do have to shoot enemies, it's skill based instead. No longer just hold L1 and press X for 100% accuracy. That doesn't bother me as that doesn't change how enjoyable Resident Evil 2 is regardless which iteration of the game it is. They both play fairly similar one is just modernized the othern is less modern, but it shows how good the development is that both of these games can be equally as good(even if I myself do prefer the original over the remake.)
    Your argument is like saying A Link to the Past plays exactly like Ocarina of Time as they progress and manage items in similar ways, you might as well say Gradius and Starfox are essentially the same game as you're piloting a spaceship and shooting enemies. The way they control feels very different. As for auto aiming in the original version, I would also be ok if the shooting was taken out entirely. It's mostly an adventure game focusing on solving puzzles and managing inventory items, that's mostly the appeal I have with survival horror games as I'm more into the adventure parts. If it was turned into a full adventure game without combat I wouldn't hate the change.

    The remake has the combat changed to that of a standard 3D shooter, it's not bad but I'm not really into those types of games as much. That's not saying it's a worse game for having that change, I just don't personally like that gameplay style as much and it's less unique as 3D shooters are extremely common now. I think Edmond Dantes seems to feel the same way. That said there was criticism towards the controls for the original version back when it first came out so it's not like it was flawless. I tend to like the earlier fixed camera angles as they give a more cinematic feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    At the same time, I think God of War on PS4 is merely good, despite also being an over the shoulder camera angle and at the time, a beat em up. Kind of like God Hand.
    God of War wasn't a beat em up, there was combat in the game but it was mostly sidequests and puzzle solving. It's like saying Zelda games are beat em ups.

  6. #26
    Crono (Level 14) Custom rank graphic

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    @Gameguy

    You should probably keep it in the realm of realism if you're going to argue against my Resident Evil 2 plays like a modern version of the original Resident Evil 2. Modernized versions of the games are going to play different, but based on your comparison, such as my comparison is like Gradius plays just like Star Fox? Then here's an idea. Stop playing modern consoles and only play classic games, because it's clear you're only going to bitch about them. So instead of just constantly bitching about them, do yourself a favor and just don't play them. Problem solved.

    //

    However, if you take classic Resident Evil's tank controls, that translates pretty well into your modern third person shooter. Up moves you forward, left and right on the right stick turns your character, back well, has your character walk backwards. You have the left stick left and right which adds strafe which is something you couldn't do but otherwise pretty similar right? Infact, Resident Evil Outbreak has tank controls and Resident Evil Outbreak File 2 has tank controls and you can strafe left and right. They're still tank controls, you now just have the visibility of viewing the character behind the back instead of overhead and instead of just holding L1 and hitting square to shoot, you actually have to aim your shots. That's pretty much the biggest difference.

    Classic Resident Evil games are prerendered games that look to play as if they're 3D and the tank controls allow the player to not switch screens and then spin out of control. Otherwise the games play exactly the same, item management is identical. You can try and spin it if you want, but we both know this is true, I know it, you know. Everyone in the forum who has touched the game knows it. There's very little difference between the original and the remake.

    For example, look here when the prerendered video is behind the back and your movements match like for like what the full 3D Resident Evil movements would to go straight and then turn left or right around a corner. Like it or not, the tank controls are just third person shooter controls. https://youtu.be/kYmeNHhwQd4?t=538
    Last edited by kupomogli; 06-20-2020 at 11:59 PM.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

  7. #27
    Alex (Level 15) Custom rank graphic
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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    @Gameguy

    You should probably keep it in the realm of realism if you're going to argue against my Resident Evil 2 plays like a modern version of the original Resident Evil 2. Modernized versions of the games are going to play different, but based on your comparison, such as my comparison is like Gradius plays just like Star Fox? Then here's an idea. Stop playing modern consoles and only play classic games, because it's clear you're only going to bitch about them. So instead of just constantly bitching about them, do yourself a favor and just don't play them. Problem solved.
    That's what I said I do, I don't really play modern games. Except for some indie games that play like old ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    However, if you take classic Resident Evil's tank controls, that translates pretty well into your modern third person shooter. Up moves you forward, left and right on the right stick turns your character, back well, has your character walk backwards. You have the left stick left and right which adds strafe which is something you couldn't do but otherwise pretty similar right? Infact, Resident Evil Outbreak has tank controls and Resident Evil Outbreak File 2 has tank controls and you can strafe left and right. They're still tank controls, you now just have the visibility of viewing the character behind the back instead of overhead and instead of just holding L1 and hitting square to shoot, you actually have to aim your shots. That's pretty much the biggest difference.
    The aiming is the biggest difference, and that's a part of the tank controls I mentioned. I didn't view aiming as something separate from the tank controls when I mentioned preferring them. Just talking about walking itself between tank controls and the modern analog stick controls, they're close enough. Overall I dislike having to aim precisely with an analog stick, with a lightgun it would be fun, but aiming with analog sticks just gets on my nerves far more than older methods of aiming. In 3D shooters, I like the old Wolfenstein 3D or Duke Nukem 3D where you just face the enemy to aim at them, I don't need to precisely aim at their head, chest, or appendages to kill them. That's more fun to me. Or arcade games like Silent Scope where you're using a lightgun to aim.

    Overall with modern 3D games I don't mind modern controls as much with adventure games as I can take my time exploring everything, I don't like that when I'm dealing with enemies.

    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    Classic Resident Evil games are prerendered games that look to play as if they're 3D and the tank controls allow the player to not switch screens and then spin out of control. Otherwise the games play exactly the same, item management is identical. You can try and spin it if you want, but we both know this is true, I know it, you know. Everyone in the forum who has touched the game knows it. There's very little difference between the original and the remake.
    I just like the prerendered backgrounds in comparison to the modern version because each shot is framed specifically, it just looks cinematic to me as the camera in every shot is specifically placed at specific heights and angles the way well made films are carefully framed. In the remake the modern camera follows you around so you're not getting as specific controlled angles and perspectives, it's just an environment to move through. It's funny how when I say I don't like the new controls as much, like the movement and combat(aiming), you bring up item management which aren't the controls and then say they basically play exactly the same. The way your character moves and fights enemies is different, that's enough of a difference.

    Like I said, the remakes are still good games, I just prefer the original versions more.

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