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Thread: ALARMING new NES 72 pin connector discovery

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) omnedon's Avatar
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    Default ALARMING new NES 72 pin connector discovery

    I've recently come into the posession of one of the very rare Nintendo Service center NES test carts (NTF2). For more info read here:

    http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/test.html

    I've been using it to test NES's I've repaired, and I've discovered an alarming trend. Since I've been using the test cart, I've been getting a 50% fail rate on my new 72 pin connectors from MCM (of the last 4 I've tried since I've had the test cart, I've had two fails). It seems the test cart utilizes every single pin connector contact, while many NES games do not. What that means in a real world example, is that a connector can fail with the test cart, but work fine with Super mario Bros. 1, or Castlevania, but it will fail with Super mario Bros 3, and Star Tropics. If a pin passes with the test cart, it runs all games, but if it fails with the test cart, it will run "some" games, but not all. It would seem that these pins are inconsistent in quality.


    This Is Not Good. This is VERY BAD, and not just because I have nearly $500CDN tied up in new MCM connector pins in my basement. This also may explain the "phantom" issues some people have had, claiming that a new connector did not solve their "blink" problem.

    I'm looking into the "gold" plated connectors now. Gold does not impress me though. I don't think this is a problem with the contact element, but an issue with the manufacturing, and perhaps a pressure issue.

    Feel free to bitch and cry in this thread. Tips and ideas would be helpful too.
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    Pac-Man (Level 10) FABombjoy's Avatar
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    Personally, I have had a 100% success rate with simply sanding the corrosion off of the old contacts, blowing the debris off with compressed air, and cleaning them a few times with a standard NES cleaning kit. That saves cost, and the connector remains 'ZIF', unlike the MCM connectors that I've had to use pliers on 3rd party carts (especially Tengen).

    Plus, I disable that damn lockout chip on every NES I get my hands on. That's 4 less pins to keep clean.

    If the connectors are truly defective, can't you get your money back on them?

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    Well, this definitely clears things up for me-I bought a new connector and it didn't make any differences in my NES's ability to play games.
    Egbert, I miss you...

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) omnedon's Avatar
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    @FAbombjoy

    My issue with that method is time. I could conceivably try that with the dud pins too. I"ll do it if I must, but it defeats the purpose.

    How do you sand the contacts? Doesn't it wear down the black plastic between the pins as well? ZIF is definitely desirable.

    I fear the bad old days where I'd refurbish old pins, and it would work 50% of the time, but it always took up a significant chunk of time.
    ... for your gaming and iPod service needs http://www.oldschoolgamer.com/ For all your Video Game console and iPod upgrade/repair needs!

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    Great Puma (Level 12) Bratwurst's Avatar
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    Consider that NES cartridge boards are also of varying thickness. My Metal Storm cart is thicker than my first generation copy of Duck Hunt. Which, incidentally, uses all of the pins and was also hard to get started during my testing days that lead to this project:

    http://www.angelfire.com/apes/madmeat/toaster1.html

    I haven't looked back.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) omnedon's Avatar
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    That mod is cool to say the least. Thing is, I do at least 2 NES's a week, and sometimes more. I charge $25CDN ($18USD), including the new connector. Some balk at that price. With a price point that low, it's gotta be reaonably cheap, and not take too long.

    With a new connector (assuming it works ) I can do a pin swap in 10 minutes with my electric screwdriver at the ready. Now if I was to go back to refurbing pins, what I save on new pins may make up for some of the extra time. thing is, people only were willing to pay the $25CDN if a "new" pin was going in, not an old pin refurbed.

    I am rethinking how I'm going to do NES's for people in the future. It gotta be a quality fix. It is very unfortunate that a new pin is not necessarily a quality fix.
    ... for your gaming and iPod service needs http://www.oldschoolgamer.com/ For all your Video Game console and iPod upgrade/repair needs!

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    Great Puma (Level 12) Bratwurst's Avatar
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    Yes, definitely something to do as a personal fix than to consider doing commercially.

    As far as the MCM connectors are concerned, I've compared them to the originals and found the Nintendo-made ultimately appeared more robust. In my opinion and experience the MCM connectors will eventually fail as well, there has yet to be a design that will serve as a permanent solution and retain the spring loaded function.

    Perhaps if the plastic were molded to be directly behind the pins as support so they wouldn't bend back, but I don't have access to a cast/molding plant for something like that.

    One of the my ideas kicking around but that I never got around to trying was to take a brand new 72 pin connector and pouring epoxy underneath the pins and along the row, letting it harden and 'hold' the pins into place. I think by nature of the spring loaded design there still has to be some give but it's a thought.

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    I'm sure you've probably done this, but have you checked the pins on the test cart to make sure it wasn't the problem? I've used MCM's pins in the past and they always seem to work fine, but then again I haven't tested them with a myriad of carts.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) omnedon's Avatar
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    The test cart looks great, and works great in my NES, and a number of other pinned NES's (plus I've cleaned it). It only fails in NES's I've pinned where the pin works with some games but not all. It ALWAYS fails in those pins. The test cart has a pin contact in every single slot, unlike most games I've seen.

    It's my opinion that it's designed to put the pin connector through it's paces. If it doesn't get contact in every single one of the pins, it blinks. That's my theory, anyway.
    ... for your gaming and iPod service needs http://www.oldschoolgamer.com/ For all your Video Game console and iPod upgrade/repair needs!

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) FABombjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omnedon
    My issue with that method is time. I could conceivably try that with the dud pins too. I"ll do it if I must, but it defeats the purpose.
    It takes me about 15 minutes/connector or so. At 4 connectors/hour, it actually saves a bit of money (unless you're getting gold to do rebuilds).

    Quote Originally Posted by omnedon
    How do you sand the contacts? Doesn't it wear down the black plastic between the pins as well? ZIF is definitely desirable.
    It does wear down the plastic just a bit, but not nearly as much as I initially thought it would. I have two 'flea market' NES units that I'm going to experiment with corrosion removing chemicals on. I'll post the results once they're complete.

    For the sand procedure, I use a piece of 80-160 grit cut to about 2/3 the width of the connector, and wrapped around some thin cardboard to give it some rigidity. I sand in only _with_ the direction of the pins, avoiding perpendicular movement (you can knock the pins out of alignment). Follow with canned air, and several cleanings with the kit.

    I have friend with a perfectly maintained NES. The carts just glide into the slot with -0- effort. Click the game down, and it works flawlessly. That is precisely how I remember NESes working when the first came out. So why should a new connector have the tension increased 300% more? It just seems like a poor workaround. The handful of NESes that I've sanded back into service retain that wonderful ZIFfyness. The average NES player just doesn't know to clean the carts & use the cart sleeves to keep them that way.

    The front-load NES lacks that natural cleaning effect that normal cart ports have, and I think that is a bit contributor to the problem. Add dirt/dust, blowing on carts, and a fairly wide connector and it's no wonder they're such a pain. Toploaders, rejoice!

    In the end, it feels an uphill battle without some kind of functionally redesigned pin connector (something with at least a 20-40% increase in contact area). I doubt anybody will ever produce such a thing. As long as they're contented to gold-plate the existing design, anyway. Unfortunately, gold pretty much conducts through a layer of cart-grime with about the same efficiency as silver, copper, or aluminum.

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    Peach (Level 3)
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    Where can you get gold connectors??

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) omnedon's Avatar
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    They are on Ebay, for more money. (I'm really sick with the flu, so you gotta find 'em)

    When my pins run out, I'm gonna look into FABombjoy's method. It's really very frustrating.
    ... for your gaming and iPod service needs http://www.oldschoolgamer.com/ For all your Video Game console and iPod upgrade/repair needs!

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    Peach (Level 3) TheSmirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bratwurst
    Consider that NES cartridge boards are also of varying thickness. My Metal Storm cart is thicker than my first generation copy of Duck Hunt. Which, incidentally, uses all of the pins and was also hard to get started during my testing days that lead to this project:

    http://www.angelfire.com/apes/madmeat/toaster1.html

    I haven't looked back.
    Awesome mod, its very similar to one I'm half done with, its attempting to make the toaster a top load
    feitctaj !

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    Great Puma (Level 12) Bratwurst's Avatar
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    I'd be interested in pics / progress for something like that, TheSmirk. Also curious as to what 72-pin connector you'd be using. I had the best results from salvaging Game Genies as their connectors use thicker pins, plated gold, etc, compared to standard card-edge connectors gotten from places like Newarks.

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    Banana (Level 7) § Gideon §'s Avatar
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    This is all very interesting. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions yet...

    Perhaps this NES test cart tests more than meets the eye. Are you able to access a knowledgeable person who could examine the ROM? It's certainly possible that the cart is a program that runs a number of diagnostic scans--not just on pin connections.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) omnedon's Avatar
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    Well, it runs through a number of routines. If it doesn't come up at all, it's the pin.

    After that, you get the test menu. If you run the auto test, it does it all, with a check pass on the video ram and scratch ram, I think it's called. Then a sprite control test, then a controller test (every button- both ports), then a sound test, with scales and voice samples, and finally a colour test.

    It does far more than test the pin. I assume it tests the pin, as it is the fussiest cart I have, pin wise. Some games will play on pins the test cart will not work with. The difference between those games, and the test cart, is that the test cart has a contact in every slot, while many games do not. Which leads me to assume it's the test cart trying to use every pin contact.

    Some documentation on my NTF2 cart would be handy as hell.
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    Banana (Level 7) § Gideon §'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omnedon
    Some documentation on my NTF2 cart would be handy as hell.
    Absolutely.

    Thanks for explaining the test cart interface. I was under the impression that it was a quick yes-or-no solution, perhaps for retail employees to determine whether a customer's NES should be sent to a service center or something along those lines. But, nevermind...

    Until someone comes across some NTF2 specs, perhaps examining what each individual pin does will reveal some clues. For example, if one of the pins accesses a certain piece of hardware that none of the others access, perhaps the hardware is to blame and not the pin connection. All I'm saying is that it's possible the connection is broken somewhere else down the line. On the other hand, you say that if the cart doesn't start up at all, the pin connection is at fault. Are you absolutely sure of this? If you are, maybe MCM has something to say about it.

    Also, have you gone about this in an experimental way:

    1. Take an NES that does not work with the test cart, and has a brand new set of pin connectors.
    2. Take its pin set out.
    3. Put this pin set in an NES that does work with the test cart.
    4. Try the test cart.

    Sorry to be so probing, but this is a topic that piques my interest.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) omnedon's Avatar
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    Are you absolutely sure of this?
    Reasonably. I've repaired 6 NES's this week. 4 last week. When the new pin fails in an NES (fails the NTF2 test), that pin fails that same test in any other NES I try it in. It's consistent.

    In my posession I have over 30 NES decks, and I've cross checked across multiple random decks. It's gotta be the pins. When all I have left is failed 'new' pins in inventory, I'm going to try to refurbish them. After that, I'm going to stick with refurbished pins, and let the NTF2 cart determine their quality.

    Since I originally posted this, the fail rate of the MCM pins I have in stock is about 1 in 4. Not that great. I'm not really comfortable selling pins on their own any more.... I don't see them as reliable anymore....

    I can see how this sort of thing could go unnoticed. It's a combination of repair (and pin) volume, mixed with the posession of the test cart (thanks NexWave!!) that has allowed me to spot the trend.
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    Banana (Level 7) § Gideon §'s Avatar
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    Jeez. This is terrible news. I'm just thankful that I'm not in a position where it affects me much; you have my sympathies.

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    bummer man...hope you can work it out
    I AM THE PWNER OF ALL THAT PWNS

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