Your answer is definitely going to work, but the thing is - HAD the SMS gotten better support, it would be more fondly remembered by the public as a whole.Originally Posted by Ernster
Now look at the present day scenario of XBox vs. PS2 - which is better? XBox, really! In every aspect but that of the built-up customer base and number of games, and I suppose price point was long in its favor too - which are impressive stats by themselves, of course - the XBox really does whip the PS2.
Holy Spazz Batman! If you read all the posts, you would see that my very first post states:To the above posts why the hell are you debating which was more powerful? Who gives a f--k, were talking about two 8-bit systems, does it matter which had better graphics or was more powerful? I thought we played retro consoles for the gameplay not graphics....
Anyway to answer this threads question, NES is better, im not going to waste my time answering why because the answer is so obvious.
"It's all about the games, and the NES wins there. As for hardware..."
Following, some people asked some questions about the hardware, the game special effects, etc., and answered them. Continuing with another quote from one of my following posts: "They are both good systems, I'll put it like that." and "But like I said, they are both good systems." and "Systems are all about the games, and it's clear that you love the SMS for them. I love the NES more for the games I'm nostalgic about. It's all good. When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter which system is more powerful. Same reason I play PS2 over X-Box and GC, it's all about the games...".
So, like I said, we weren't arguing which was more powerful, but rather discussing capabilities, and the potential of their games. There's nothing wrong with discussing the hardware behind systems.
I forgot about this, and I suppose I should respond. I don't want to go through debating every last syllable, but I'll hit the high spots.
"None the less, the NES can do "line scrolling" as well, it's called parallax scrolling, an effect to give a pseudo 3D effect."
I have been given the understanding that "parallax scrolling" is a generic term regarding any pseudo 3-D movement by use of separately scrolling background elements. Line scrolling is not always used for parallax effects. A good example would be the "fire" (not haze) effect seen in many 16 bit games--Thunderforce 3, for example.
"Neither the NES or SMS have background layers, that was in the SNES, etc."
I understand that neither have hardware capabilities for layers, but obviously the SMS is versatile enough, or powerful enough, to achieve it in software.
"To explain why new SMS games can be better than the old NES ones is simple. Two reasons: 1) companies usually won't put more effort into their games than they need to, until other companies come out with more impressive stuff, in which case they'd need to improve their stuff to compete. Games were simpler then, so developers didn't have to put as much into them. 2) Do you know how much easier it is now to do the games? heh. With emulators, Windows and other GUIs, good bitmap editing software, fast PCs, efficient compilers--if they had the tools we have now, the NES and SMS games would be incredible!"
But I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about then, when the tools were NOT lightyears beyond the capabilities of the systems being used for. And I didn't say "new" SMS games vs. "old" NES games. I'm talking about a rough parity, either in age, development time, or simple parallel chronology! Why not take the most advanced NES game from 1993 or before (roughly the end of it's life) and compare to the most advanced SMS game from 1993? It would actually to more fair to put a three year offset between the two, but even limited to 93, I'd be satisfied that SMS far outshone anything produced on NES.
Given the immense number of developers working on NES vs. the pittance on SMS (worldwide, even), and the dominance of NES and the competition bred from that fact, you would think that NES would have produced imagery that would have put SMS to shame. Even your speculation about companies and their lazy work ethic (regarding innovation) confirms this. NES is the arena where everyone was fighting for the $$$, where everyone was trying to outdo each other. So where is the supreme SMS killer?
"As for the peak of NES outshining the SMS, you'll see soon enough, when I release my ultimate homebrew NES game, heh."
I'm all for you and I think that's cool that you're working on such a project, but in the framework of this debate I ask: Why should I have to wait at all? If NES is indeed a more powerful machine, then a suitable example of your contention should be readily available among the commercial releases. Don't tell me I have to depend on a decade + of advances in dev tools and techniques to provide such an example.
1993: SMS vs. NES.
Go!
That's exact. It is like comparing the PSX to the Saturn.
I mean of course everyone is going to like whichever system better that they grew up on.
But when comparing sales, games, etc. side by side; The NES COMPLETELY BLOWS the SMS out of the damn water. There is NO comparison at all.
Now I like the SMS for some of its games (Don't really have much gametime on this system, very sad being the SEGA fan I am), but if I went back in the day not one of my damn friends even knew what the hell the SMS was or is today even.
NES all the way!! (For Me)
Wavelflack said:
It's called Super Mario Bros. It came out in 1985.So where is the supreme SMS killer?
Specs, schmecs - it's all about the games man!
"And remember ladies: if it ain't tight, it ain't right!"
No...when comparing games side by side, the SMS wins. That assumes that there's a game to compare with. You can compare Contra to, say, The Cyber Shinobi, but calling that a "side by side" comparison is misleading. If you want to compare NES games to their SMS counterparts, go for it. If not, I won't stop you - but it's a bit frustrating for people to look at the company that lost out because it generated nearly all its best hits entirely by itself (for example: "Reprogrammed by Sega," when was the last time you saw that on a Capcom or Konami port for the NES?), didn't insist on taking half ownership of FDS titles, and didn't use an anticompetitive business strategy.
Strangely enough, people look at the Italian Dictator (to paraphrase the book of poetry) and think "wow, those guys have us in their thoughts...they're so friendly, unlike those SEGA wankers who were busy screaming in your ear all the time."
I don't mind the fact that we've got a bunch of highly stylized five-color sprite games on the little gray box, but the SMS deserved better.
OK. I think I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that if you took an nes game that is similar to a sms game? But still even if you did that, the NES has hundreds of more games.No...when comparing games side by side, the SMS wins. That assumes that there's a game to compare with. You can compare Contra to, say, The Cyber Shinobi, but calling that a "side by side" comparison is misleading. If you want to compare NES games to their SMS counterparts, go for it. If not, I won't stop you - but it's a bit frustrating for people to look at the company that lost out because it generated nearly all its best hits entirely by itself (for example: "Reprogrammed by Sega," when was the last time you saw that on a Capcom or Konami port for the NES?), didn't insist on taking half ownership of FDS titles, and didn't use an anticompetitive business strategy.
Strangely enough, people look at the Italian Dictator (to paraphrase the book of poetry) and think "wow, those guys have us in their thoughts...they're so friendly, unlike those SEGA wankers who were busy screaming in your ear all the time."
I don't mind the fact that we've got a bunch of highly stylized five-color sprite games on the little gray box, but the SMS deserved better.
Well, I don't consider my 2 cents that important because as mentioned above, I don't have as much playing time on the games and system itself on the SMS. But I do know that the NES just has way too many "Great" games to even compare. (but keep in mind that the NES is my fav. system, so I am biased)
Yes - there's both arguments, in a nutshell.
And yeah, I had to throttle the urge to say something about you being biased ;D In all seriousness, that's not so big an issue. Just trying to get the word out about the SMS, that's all.
Show me a single NES game that is fit to lick the shoes of Power Strike II.
And here's a couple special screens from Power Strike 2, just to help illustrate it's awesomeness:
Any S
What?
It's synonymous with the letters N - E - SQuickclaw wrote:
Any S
What?
"And remember ladies: if it ain't tight, it ain't right!"
The people that were talking about the SMS being more powerful than the NES must have been smoking too much crack down the street or something. It's pretty obvious that the SMS is limited in many more ways than the NES ever could be. Some of that system's greatest gameplay graphical achievements (I am talking gameplay, not still pics like Power Strike 2) include R-Type, which flickered everywhere madly, and Phantasy Star, which was probably the best game on the system. You can not compare Zelda II and Super Mario Bros 2/3 to Alex Kidd. It's not even right. There is nothing on the SMS that is even remotely close in terms of being "better" than the NES in any aspect except for being able to play different games. These are not necessarily better, they are just different. Granted Space Harrier is pretty damned awesome on the SMS, and I spent loads of time playing that and even Miracle Warriors does not mean I have lost my noggin and thought it was better.
Can you honestly say that SMS music is even better than any Sunsoft game's music? Blaster Master, Fester's Quest, Journey to Silius, Ufouria, Mr. Gimmick...those bring a tear to your eye....the NES was THE arcade system at the time. all those VS. games now with exact pixel counterparts (not gameplay) ? That was pretty nifty.
Also, that guy that said PS2 was better than XBOX? HAHAHAHHAH. Oh please. $150 for no hard drive, no network, cheaper DVD player, worse graphics, crappy laser. You have to be kidding. XBOX is the best system on the market hands down. You have to be oblivious to video games if you think otherwise.
There's a reason I have like 8 SMS titles versus 96 NES cartridges, and most of them are the Euro exclusives. When a competent graphic artist was on board the Master System looked GREAT, check out Global Defense or Wonder Boy III, but the platform never seemed to escape a generic sense of audio and color palette. NES was way more flexible. Look at how a Capcom game differed in style from a Sunsoft game, etc.
I'll have to go SMS , same as a few others have said, I preferred it over the NES when I was a kid, some of my favourite games are on that system.
Now Im an adult (kind of..) and I have both , and its still the SMS , wins hands down !
Without couting up its obvious theres more votes for the NES, and I understand that, the software catalogue for it is huge, but what I wonder is how a vote would break down just for us pal people, as the SMS was far far bigger over here than in the US.
Si
I know that the NES has tons more games in the world and I know that it has Mario and Metroid and Zelda (yadda, yadda, blah...). But my heart is with the SMS. After years of abuse my machine still isn't yellow and the boxes for the games are still immaculate. I can plug the games into my GameGear and take them wherever I like (with lots of batteries, of course!). My collection looks much better on the shelves and it warms my cockles just to look at! The carts are wee and dinky and I very rarely have to blow on them. And even if I lost all my games I could still switch on my SMS II and play Alex Kidd!
As for the games themselves, well over here there were masses of them (including things like the Ultima series) and I have lost years to them. The very first game I ever completed was Mickey and the Castle of Illusion on the SMS - you can't ever get that again from another machine...
I love Nintendo to bits but I have to say that I have never felt much for the ol' NES. Don't get me wrong, I do like it but I do get pissed off when the thing doesn't work 80% of the time when I just want a quick blast of something - my SMS is always there for me just waiting quietly for me to take a quick fix before I go to catch the bus somewhere
dude, the sms rocks. i need another, but i still enjoyed it while i had it.
But let us look at the following:
Does the Sega Master System have the following:
-A keyboard with teaching software
-Capabilities to have modem play
-Capabilities for the internet
-Pseudo 16 bit graphics
I don't know much about the Sega Master System's unreleased projects, but there was some really cool shit being developed for the NES. When pushed to the max, the NES could do some really amazing things.
Then there are games like Ultimate Stuntman and Crossbow...those games had awesome graphics...
People always use the software excuse as a reason why the NES did better then the SMS over in the US. It should be the quality of the software not the quantity of it. I mean, there were around 100 some unlicensed NES games, plus all of the licensed crap (Color a dinosaur) for the NES...this quickly adds up. If you only count the good games, the NES library of titles quickly gets cut in half.
The Sega Master System has less games, so they should be better, right? Umm...wrong...
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