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Thread: Is there anyway to clean the yellow off an NES?

  1. #21
    Strawberry (Level 2) Pedro Lambrini's Avatar
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    I think if cigarette smoke was the cause you'd be able to clean it even just a little - this is definately in the make-up of the plastic. Also if it was jsut lack of cleaning!!

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    Banana (Level 7) davidleeroth's Avatar
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    Lookie me link I posted above. NES no made of cheap-o-plastic. Rub layer off, comes clean.

    "I never should the games I sold and I have replaced them but they are not the game just a hollow shell of the same game." -RugalSizzler

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    Bell (Level 8) whoisKeel's Avatar
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    what's wirewool? like a brillo pad without soap? wouldn't that scratch the plastic aweful bad or no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whoisKeel
    what's wirewool? like a brillo pad without soap? wouldn't that scratch the plastic aweful bad or no?
    Wirewool is basically a lump of thin metal wires that you use to scrub things. You only use it for extreme cases.

    As for scratches, that's sort of the idea here. The plastic itself is stained, so you have to scrape off some of it to get down to the stuff that (hopefully) isn't stained yet.

    --Zero

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    Banana (Level 7) davidleeroth's Avatar
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    Yes, the yellowing is only on the top layer. There's a feathering effect as well as straight lines on the yellowing pattern so sunlight must be the main cause here.
    It looks like a NES cart made that pattern.

    I don't doubt that tobacco will yellow it too, that stuff just yellows everything.

    "I never should the games I sold and I have replaced them but they are not the game just a hollow shell of the same game." -RugalSizzler

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    Hmm, Ze_ro's been visiting Bash.org :P

    @ DavidLeeRoth: I guess that settles the question; it's damaged caused by ultraviolet radiation. I looked over the old Performa I mentioned and all the yellowing was on top, and actually more along one side than another. :/

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) suppafly's Avatar
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    this is divine punishment for buying cheap nintendo consoles instead of sega systems

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    Quote Originally Posted by suppafly
    this is divine punishment for buying cheap nintendo consoles instead of sega systems
    And you bumped this thread just to bash Nintendo? Geez...
    Quote Originally Posted by starsoldier1 View Post
    GUY WAS SUPPOSE TO PLAYABLE IN THE GAME
    My collection

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    Ryu Hayabusa (Level 16) rbudrick's Avatar
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    Oh boy. This topic has been beaten to death before on this forum. I'm too lazy to link the threads, but the sunlight theory is just plain wrong. There a few problems with this:

    1) people who have opened sealed new SNESs recently have found yellowing.
    2) the discoloration is on the inside of the yellowed systems too. They sure as hell didn't have suns in them.
    3). I, and others have stored SNES/NESs, etc that used this plastic in rooms that had no windows. They yellowed over the years anyway.

    The yellowing is purely an oxidization problem. Like rust.

    Oh, and smoking isn't it either. That washes off of stuff (though very sticky and can stain sometimes anyway) and plently of non-smokers have SNES that went yellow.

    Now someone managed to scratch down a layer and it was gray...weird. I think I remember hearing stories of the plastic being yellow all the way through to the middle....hmmm....could be wrong....could happen, I guess.

    -Rob
    The moral is, don't **** with Uncle Tim when he's been drinking!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbudrick
    ...the sunlight theory is just plain wrong...The yellowing is purely an oxidization problem. Like rust.
    Really? Where did you get your chemistry degree from? What's that? Oh, you don't have one... Well, I do. So here's the answer to this question and hopefully people stop asking.

    The yellowing of the plastic is caused by oxidation, much as rbudrick said. Oxidation can be caused by a number of airborne chemicals such as ozone, but oxidation of organic compounds (read: plastic) occurs at a much faster rate by prolonged exposure to ULTRAVIOLET FUCKING RADIATION!!!!!!!!!! This is why if you leave a computer or game console which is made of easily oxidizable plastic exposed to sunlight for a long period of time, the side or sides of that object facing the sunlight source are more yellowed than the rest of the object. This is also why car paint gets oxidized after time unless it is stored in a garage for the vast majority of the time.

    Now before anyone says "But Jibbajaba, rust is a form of oxidation and it isn't caused by sunlight...", ferrous compounds are not succeptable to ultraviolet radiation, probably due to their decreased reactivity.

    So to sum up: sunlight bad, air less bad, yellowing inevitable, yellowing irreversible. Now some mod can come along and yell at me for being rude.

    Chris

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) omnedon's Avatar
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    OK. Does this UV discolouring permeate the plastic? Would this explain the yellowing on the inside of the consoles as well? SNES's that are yellowed, are yellowed inside and out, through and through.
    ... for your gaming and iPod service needs http://www.oldschoolgamer.com/ For all your Video Game console and iPod upgrade/repair needs!

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    Like I said, they yellowing is caused by both UV radiation and agents in the air. The outside will yellow faster because it is exposed to UV, but the inside also yellows because oxidation-happy compounds such as ozone creep through along with the air. If you live in an area where the air has an unusually high concentration of oxidizing agents (perhaps if your area is high in air pollution) then your consoles will be equally yellowed on the inside and outside (assuming that you always keep it away from the sun.) For the vast majority of people, however, the sun will be by far the major contributor.

    My main point in my last post was not that simple atmospheric exposure can't cause oxidation, but that UV radiation is the major cause of said oxidation, and for someone to say that the sunlight "theory" was "just plain wrong" is just plain wrong itself, and proves that someone is making a statement when they don't really know what they are talking about. Looking back on it this morning it was probably a bit harsh but I am a big believer of admitting my ignorance when I know very little about something, and as such one of my big pet peeves is someone spouting off on a topic about which they are not well versed.

    Chris

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    Ryu Hayabusa (Level 16) rbudrick's Avatar
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    Really? Where did you get your chemistry degree from? What's that? Oh, you don't have one... Well, I do. So here's the answer to this question and hopefully people stop asking.
    Hmm, just what we need...people bragging about their higher education in a videogame forum. And being pompous snots about it! Sweet! Congrats. I for one, am most impressed and am currently bowing to you. It is interesting you assume I don't have a chemistry degree. I guess that degree came with a few classes in how to tone your sixth sense, because you are right, I don't have a chemistry degree! Damn. You are good.

    I bet you would bow to my degrees too, but we won't go there.

    I think it is very interesting that you completely ignored the fact that many have opened BRAND NEW SEALED snes units and found them yellowed. Gee, let's see...it doesn't take a chemistry major to know that UV light is not going to be an effect here. UV light is unlikely to pass through (to any measurable extend that would matter) the cardboard, styrofoam, and plastic bags and then straight into the SNES. Especially not when stored in some store or warehouse for years and not in the hot sun or under a UV lamp. Even if it could, that would mean that if I took it out into the sun, it would instantly vaporize if it were so effected by UV light that it would oxidize that much while in a new box. Being facitious there, but perhaps you should have majored in physics.

    In addition, you also ignored this:

    3). I, and others have stored SNES/NESs, etc that used this plastic in rooms that had no windows. They yellowed over the years anyway.
    Oh yeah, tons of UV rays going on in my old gameroom with no windows. Right. Come to think of it, I rarely even turned on a lightbulb in there, usually using the light from the TV for sight.

    UV light CAN certainly speed along the process, but is most certainly NOT the major cause in the vast majority of yellow SNES cases. I didn't mean to imply that it couldn't happen, only that it is extremely far from being the major cause of yellowing Nintendos. I just really very highly doubt many people had their SNESs in the sun. Especially not somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of people who owned SNES (a fair estimate of the yellowing cases). I know a crapload of people who owned SNESs and not once did I see one sitting on the windowsill or sitting outside or even in direct sunlight. Most people position their TVs away from sunlight anyway to reduce glare. If we could count the people here who say their SNESs were in the sun all the time and then if we could count the cases where people did not do that, I would bet the number of yellowed cases would be far higher in the latter group, mainly because the group would be larger. However, the percentage in both cases would likely be the same, though I would imagine slightly yellower cases in the former group. It would be a good experiment for a scientist such as yourself. It would be quite interesting to see your hypothesis tested in a scientific unbiased manner. Being a chemist, give it a shot.


    Looking back on it this morning it was probably a bit harsh but I am a big believer of admitting my ignorance when I know very little about something
    Well, we're waiting... . JK. Seriously, you are ignoring a vast amount of evidence.

    -Rob
    The moral is, don't **** with Uncle Tim when he's been drinking!

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    Well I'll ignore all of the personal rancor contained in that post since I guess I basically asked for it. If what you are saying were true, every SNES and NES in the world would be yellowed, and they aren't. Direct sunlight is not required for UV oxidation to occur. A well lit room will do. As for the items which you own which were stored in the dark in plastic, I can only say that those things are not airtight. If something were stored in a completely airtight and completely dark container, where the container itself did not contain some agent that itself caused oxidation, the item would not yellow. Oxidation is caused by an outside source, and does not happen in these plastics spontaneously. All I can say is that I have seen plenty of empirical evidence to show me the damaging effect that sunlight has on crappy plastics. My own PSX, which sat on my desk under a window before I knew better is a testament to that fact, as it is as yellow as a friggin banana on top but still nice and grey everywhere else. There is no way that I would believe that a sealed SNES, NES, PSX, etc. would be opened up after 12 or so years and already be yellowed. Anyone here can say that they know someone who knows someone who saw that happen but I would never believe that until I saw it with my own eyes. If you have plastic components that are yellowing in the dark then you have a serious pollution problem in that room. I have never had anything of mine spontaneously become yellow with age unless the sun was involved. I still have my original NES from 1987, and an Apple ][+ from 1979 and they are both the color that they should be.

    If you disagree with the "theory" that UV is the major cause of this yellowing problem, then I'd like to hear you propose an alternate scientific explanantion other than "it just happens with age" because plently of us have seen that this is not true. I apologize for giving this thread a bad tone but your post put me in a bad mood at the time.

    Chris

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    OK I've been thinking more about this and here is what I'm gonna do in the interest of kangaroo science. I have two NES's, neither are yellow. One is my playing NES and the other is a POS that I bought at a thrift store becaise I wanted the 72 pin connector. Since it has survived this long without being yellowed, I'm gonna cover half of it up and put it outside in the sun for a few days and then post the pics.

    Chris

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) omnedon's Avatar
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    My theory is that not only do we have a UV factor, and an oxidization factor, but a manufacturing factor, with varying quality ABS used by Nintendo during manufacture. This explains the perfectly half yellow and half white SNES's I see with some regularity. Seeing as they are assembled with security screws, I doubt that they are the victim of user swapping.

    A good 1/3 of the hundred + SNES's that have gone through my workshop were half yellow and half white.
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    Great Puma (Level 12) Bratwurst's Avatar
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    Mr. Jibba what are some recourses for surface oxidization such as a 'haze' on a normally shiney plastic? Is the spot going to grow and get worse, stay the same unless environmental conditions worsened, etc? Any treatment? Is it even oxidization?

    To clarify an example, I bought a Turbo Grafx hucard that arrived in its card condom slightly 'stuck' inside on the back. Where it was lightly adhered to the sleeve the haze was there. I don't really want to scratch the haze away or anything though since there is printed lettering (the usual warnings and care advice) on the back and it's unaffected by this haze.

    Bless Sega and their midnight blackness. Is black plastic known to discolor any btw? I figure it'd just be a matter of the material getting brittle if anything happens because of age and improper storage/handling.

  18. #38
    Ryu Hayabusa (Level 16) rbudrick's Avatar
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    Check this out:

    http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28304

    Where Icarwings 55 says:

    ....I have seen an snes that was in a smoke free house, always kept in the box, and never used... be yellow
    OK...definitely no sunlight going on there. There you go, Jibba Jabba.

    Then we have an interesting theory from Sisko:

    http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16803


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From what I heard....

    Early SNES units were developed completely in Japan and then shipped to the US.

    After NAFTA was established, it became cheaper to develop portions in Mexico and then ship them up to the US. However, the Mexican plants had a slightly different recipe for their plastic.

    In short, the sand content in the newer units cause them to turn colors.
    And here's something very interesting from Evan:

    http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8096

    I've had my snes for 10 years, and it only has slight yellowing... and for the majority of its life it was in direct sunlight.
    Only slight yellowing...hmmmm. Doesn't seem the sun did too much there.

    There's one other thing that is pretty important. The insides of the SNES are also yellow. Since there is a spring flap on the SNES, not much light could come through. Now, granted that oxidation can eat right through anything, the outside would still be much yellower.

    The fact is that even if you left it in the light every now and then, the system is ALWAYS in the air, making air a much worse oxidizer.

    There's about 5 threads on this already in the DP forum. From what I read from various posts, they basically said the same as me: The air oxidized the plastic, but keeping it out of sunlight probably only retards the process.

    Evan's case is pretty compelling though.

    JibbaJabba, you mentioned:
    There is no way that I would believe that a sealed SNES, NES, PSX, etc. would be opened up after 12 or so years and already be yellowed.
    Ok, well then you've gotta keep in mind simple physics. Cardboard, plastic bags, styrofoam, etc are porous, and air can easily pass through them, and does. I've never opened a game system box that made the vaccum sound of a soda can when I opened it. Air definitely gets in. My newly opened systems never looked like one of those vaccum sealed coffe bags. They were pretty loose. All the evidence is far more compelling for making the case that AIR is the prime culrprit.

    If what you are saying were true, every SNES and NES in the world would be yellowed, and they aren't.
    True, they aren't ALL yellow (many are still completely gray), but my argument still holds. Probably half of the yellowed SNES are HALF yellow. I've seen hundreds of them and I believe that's a fair estimate. When Nintendo caught on to the problem (or perhaps when they changed manufacturers or factories or whatever) they still used their extra "yellowable" cases they had left over (or half cases). Many here can attest to their bottom half of their SNES being perfect while the top half was yellow (RIGHT ALONG THE SEAM- a perfect division). Many SNESs were made with better plastic, and have not and probably won't ever yellow (in our lifetimes). Not all SNESs were created equal.

    Also, another interesting tidbit: The yellow case are brittle. They crack easily and sometimes even taking the screws out can snap the pole the screws extend into. Be careful with your yellow SNESs!

    -Rob
    The moral is, don't **** with Uncle Tim when he's been drinking!

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    Look, you said that the sunlight "theory" is completely false. You exact words were "the sunlight theory is just plain wrong." That is an absolute statement. I have said that oxidation from air is a definite factor. So I don't understand what the problem is. You are now backtracking and admitting that sunlight is a contributing factor. If there are different types of plastic that have been used throughout the SNES's production cycle, I didn't know that. I can only speak to the plastics that I have had direct experience with and they were oxidized by the sun. I have seen compouter monitors that are VASTLY more yellowed on the side facing a window than on the shady side. Maybe one side had more air on it. If the SNES was at times made from certain types of plastic that are extremely susceptible to osidation by airborne toxins, then that changes things, but then it should have been stated from the beginning that this was only a problem with these certain SNESes. In any case, I never made the claim that air had nothing to do with it. You are the one who said that the sunlight theory was "just plain wrong", and that statement is what made me reply to this thread to begin with, because that kind of statement tells people that it is OK to leave your gaming eqiupment in an area that is bathed with sunlight without having to worry, and my poor yellowed PSX knows better. I have only spoken from personal experience and education here. I have not made any absolute statements, but only said that I would have to see certain things personally before I would accept them as fact. And I certainly never made a statement such as "the theory of oxidation due to atmospheric exposure is just plain wrong."

    This is a dumb thing to argue about and as such this is going to be my last post in this thread. Go ahead and say whatever you want to me or about me because it is going to go unchallenged. I stand by everything that I have said in this thread and I have nothing more to add that would be constructive or helpful to the conversation.

    Chris

    BTW I liked all of your references. Kind of an "I read it on the internet so it must be true" sort of thing.

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    Ryu Hayabusa (Level 16) rbudrick's Avatar
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    Beautiful. Twist what I say and then say, "I'm not gonna reply, so nyah!" Real cute. Doesn't that just make you the man? I'm so impressed.

    BTW I liked all of your references. Kind of an "I read it on the internet so it must be true" sort of thing.
    Yeah, and I love your encyclopedia and scientific journal references. Don't you rock? At least I used sources. You only used yourself as a source. Personal experiences of others is certainly an admissible source. Are you doubting the word of those who posted that info? Then why not PM them calling them liars? That's practically what you are doing. Why would you want to alienate those folks? That's not really fair to them. They certainly didn't do anything to you. It is certainly childish of you to doubt those sources, as if they would wildly make up a lie about their yellowed SNESs solely to contradict you some time in the future when this thread was created.

    I only meant that sunlight as the leading cause is absolutely worng. Call it bad wording or whatever. My statement was not meant to be absolute. My later statements certainly indicated this. In fact, my later statements were absolutely clear. It's not like I couldn't have hit "edit." I didn't think it was necessary. Any rational person reading the thread would see this as obvious. I was hardly backtracking, as you say.

    MANY plastics out there yellow in the sun. SNESs, however, yellow far better just being in the air, with sunlight effecting it very little, as it appears.

    I can only speak to the plastics that I have had direct experience with
    Exactly. You left yours in the sun, and made a generalization about everyone.

    because that kind of statement tells people that it is OK to leave your gaming eqiupment in an area that is bathed with sunlight without having to worry, and my poor yellowed PSX knows better
    Riiiight. Yeah, that's exactly what it says. What, do you think everyone is an idiot? Like they are going to run out and leave their systems on their windowsills! And we weren't even talking about PSXs, dude! Apples and oranges, man.

    I have only spoken from personal experience and education here
    And I have not. I have quoted personal experience and the exerience of others.

    For someone who claims to have the scientific education that you say, you certainly take a biased unscientific approach to evidence that contradicts your personal views and personal experiences. That's very unscientific. I'm not saying this a big science experiment. It hardly is. However, if you are going to tout your high and mighty education, you should really play the part, as it is very hypocritical. I would certainly have changed my views, had it been shown that SNESs yellow because of sunlight as a main factor. That MOST certainly did not happen. No such evidence was shown and much evidence to the contrary was. I'm absolutely convinced that your PSX did yellow from sunlight, though.

    Why was this being argued you ask? Because this is a forum and someone asked about the cause of the yellowing. Why give them false info? If anything, they can take both our arguments and make thier own informed decision what they think.

    -Rob
    The moral is, don't **** with Uncle Tim when he's been drinking!

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