do you think game consoles will ever go back to cartridges?

[dethink]

will there ever be a day when a home console (besides anything made by SNK) will harken back to cartridge type media eventually? the hurdle has always been that memory/etc. is expensive, but with prices on things like flash memory/etc. dropping all the time, do you think we will ever see games housed on something similar, but non-volatile?

or is CD/DVD-based production simply too cost effective that no medium will ever replace it any time soon?

i'm interested to see what people will think the next "standard" format will be. something the size of a hu-card that holds a gig? microdrive-sized HD's as cartridges? on-demand downloads, so there is no media to manufacture or distribute?

[kai123]

I like the way the psp stores its Umds. I wish they would all cover them in plastic like that. It would make buying used games less of a hassle.

[Raedon]

I know the future is open.

One day strage will be on instant access Solid state type devices like crystals or whatever and those will be like a cart.

[Lemmy Kilmister]

I like the way the psp stores its Umds. I wish they would all cover them in plastic like that. It would make buying used games less of a hassle.

Yeah i would like to see more companies doing this in the future also.

I really don't think any new consoles (beside DS) will be using any form of cartridge or flash cards for their games. Their just to much to mass produce plus the more ram,memory ect... the more expensive the cart becomes. Even snk has stop and moved on to the atomicwave hardware (mostly because of sammy though). Though i still love cartridges more as a media, do mostly to the fact that they seem to last longer. Theirs nothing worst then finding a rare used cd game to only see it all banged up.

[hydr0x]

i think there are two possibliities:

1) some kind of memory device will be cheap enough sometime and they will go back to cart-like games because the load-times are non-existent

2) some disc-media will have so short loading times that carts are no longer necessary

[zmweasel]

will there ever be a day when a home console (besides anything made by SNK) will harken back to cartridge type media eventually?

No. If anything, the future of home videogames is the absence of ANY storage media; you'll simply download your games onto a TV set-top box. There was an attempt at this as far back as the Atari 2600, and The Sega Channel was a limited form of it, but it's REALLY starting to happen now, between Xbox Live's downloadable content and the pending launch of the Phantom.

One could also argue that the widespread use of emulators and ROMs have proven to videogame publishers that the majority of gamers don't care about storage media; they only care about the data. It doesn't matter if a game comes on a cartridge or a DVD or a silver dollar, as long as it's fun.

There are considerable hurdles, of course. It'll be a LONG time before everyone in the States has high-speed Internet connections, the Big Three will have to replace the revenue they currently generate by controlling the manufacture of games for their systems, and retailers will rail against any system that takes them out of the profit loop. But it's going to happen. It's already started to happen.

-- Z.

[MarioAllStar2600]

I love discs so much more then carts. FOr 2 main reasons

A) Storage is much easier with discs, whether it be in a cd book or in the slim dvd cases.
B) The batterys on carts die, there are no batterys on discs.

Just for those 2 reasons alone, I hope we never see carts back.

[Aussie2B]

B) The batterys on carts die, there are no batterys on discs.

Memory cards die and internal memory dies, so it's all about the same. Not all carts use the same kind of batteries too. Many N64 games should keep their save feature MUCH longer than a NES or SNES battery. Those old-school standard batteries are easy to replace as well.

[dethink]

B) The batterys on carts die, there are no batterys on discs.

this is the only thing i don't like about carts, but only my original zelda is the only one to give me a problem - it died back in '90-'91 or so...

on N64 carts, what is the expected lifespan? i'd hate for something to happen to those, 'cause they're kind of useless without memory. none of my MD/genesis carts have batteries, and my SNES ones are still going strong.

i really wish distribution doesn't move away from physical media. i think once everyone is sold on iTunes/etc. and has a large collection of DRM media they've paid for croak along with a HD, or that can't be moved to a new computer down the road, there will be mass pissed consumer outcry. then again, i'll probably still be collecting carts, so whatever...the day i can't have access to a physical game that i'm shelling out for (unless there's a huge price drop - unlikely), i'll probably stop buying consoles.

[Raedon]

This dissucussion is extremely short in real tech sight. discs duck, memory on carts sucks, etc etc.. there is stuff coming out in ten years that is instant access AND can be saved on for little cash. I see cards type systems a decade from now.


and thank god, all the moving parts in these CD systems are NOT going to be fun to keep running in 100 years.

[Dreamscape]

I like carts better than discs, but i doubt that the game companies will ever use them again. It would be too expensive.

[dethink]

This dissucussion is extremely short in real tech sight. discs duck, memory on carts sucks, etc etc.. there is stuff coming out in ten years that is instant access AND can be saved on for little cash. I see cards type systems a decade from now.


and thank god, all the moving parts in these CD systems are NOT going to be fun to keep running in 100 years.

that's what i was thinking when i started this thread - eventually we're going to hit a wall (or come to a point) where there's something chip-based out there that will be cheap enough to use.

i also think CD/DVD based stuff is going to eventually limit design, both game-wise (or rather, the limitations are going to be much more apparent AFTER we move past it), and definitely influences current console design. imagine if you didn't have to cram a DVD drive in there as your means of getting games into the system, but rather only had to build around a compact flash sized card.

the second point about moving parts really only affects the people on this board. little billy casual gamer will have traded in his PS2 way before the drive dies so he can play madden 2057.

i don't know about the on-demand/no media console taking hold. look at the problems inherent reliability and cost/piracy-wise with the xbox, that after one attempt is making microsoft rethink their HD-based approach.

should be interesting to see if someone decides to shake things up in the near future. maybe that's nintendo's big announcement? a small form factor could revolutionize the industry if applied correctly. maybe the new handheld they're being hush hush about is really the new console all-in-one. with a small card based system, it could be possible. something 1/2 the thickness of a gamecube, with a flip top screen, A/V outs, and ports for controllers...

who knows?

(more than likely the future will be a horrid PC on top of your TV all in one set top box that you download games to, but alas...)

[ManekiNeko]

Honestly, I don't think that the cartridge format will ever be obsoleted, at least where handhelds are concerned. They're resistant to damage, they don't skip when the system is jostled, and there's enough storage space for most games. Nobody's ever going to fill a disc with 650 megs of GAMEPLAY, let alone 1.8 gigs... they'll just pad all that extra space with full-motion video and other distractions.

JR

[Ed Oscuro]

I see cards type systems a decade from now.

Even though it costs more for a game developer/publisher to manufacture cards than just stream out the game to your device? I know there's always a chance, but it's a slim one indeed.

Infinium (Infintesimal?) Labs might be a joke as a company, but their system is going to be the way for the forseeable (i.e. certain) future.

and thank god, all the moving parts in these CD systems are NOT going to be fun to keep running in 100 years.

Can't agree with you more there :)

Cartridges can go bad, though.

[bcorgan19]

...microdrive-sized HD's as cartridges...

This is what I see. something like a $50-$75 ipod that you plug into your machine

[Ed Oscuro]

...microdrive-sized HD's as cartridges...

This is what I see. something like a $50-$75 ipod that you plug into your machine

It'll (soon) be smaller than an i-Pod, but that sounds good. Having the games on your own personal HD, sort of like a memory card but with games on it, could fix the "can't move your games" problem, but that assumes people want that even at cost AND (on the consoles/Phantom-type side) that publishers will go along with the idea, seeing how it quite drastically puts the power of transfer into your hands and takes control of individual game purchases away from them.

I think, on the consumer side, that folks will still be able to simply download games or move it much like they do now, via the internet (only that's not likely as piracy concerns are obvious). Handheld machines will have their own storage, or they stream data from a distant server; we understand the device in question is a storage medium for games and settings, instead of a primary hard drive, though once again hard drives will simple become caches, and to fulfil their purpose in the game company's scheme they must be crippled and restricted -

For the content provider, the idea of letting somebody move information off the machine, off the network and hence into a great wilderness where their policies and protections no longer hold sway, an area where folks could mess around with data and alter it with great ease, is a strong enough reason for them to not provide a device that allows users to take data and carry it around (and facilitate hacking). Indeed, I would be quite surprised if any future Phantom-style game console would have any but the most specialized of input/output ports with great restrictions on what they can be used for. All data entering and leaving the console will be encrypted to help this process along; processor and cache will even eventually be completely integrated so at no time is raw game data moving freely along the board's traces, if indeed hardware hacking proves to be fruitful as opposed to simple software piracy (though this is my zaniest conclusion, you can bet it will eventually come to pass).

So, while there are uses for a portable HD, you can bet (an assumption I made all along) that games will not be sold on it, individuals won't often need it unless they're somewhere that networks ain't (and in the future, the far reaches and wastes of the worlds will meet), and companies have a vested interest in keeping people from having this ability. My question is this - given all these facts, who in the mainstream would have a practical use for such a device, let alone use it in conjunction with a crippled client?

[Alex Kidd]

It would be interesting to see Carts make a comeback, but I doubt it will happen.
However, I do believe SOMETHING is going to knock out optical disc media if something can't be done about how easily they're damaged. They're the brown bag of storage; they can hold a lot... but for how long?
And it's only cause the paint chips away.. why not use a better grade paint? something that doesn't scratch away so easily?
But then I also believe all optical discs should be in a constant caddy just like floppy disks. It would make so much sense; the caddy would BE the CD case.


Alex Kidd

[Overbite]

no. and uh, no. unless they make super carts that hold more than a dvd

[ozyr]

I wish IBM would get that darn holographic memory storage done, that way all games could be on these cool glass-like cubes! No moving parts - just like the old carts I love. CD games are ok, but to easy to damage!

[Raedon]

Infinium (Infintesimal?) Labs might be a joke as a company, but their system is going to be the way for the forseeable (i.e. certain) future.

Time will tell, though I think you are completely on the wrong track.

People LOVE having that item in their hands that says, "Your Game" You are looking into a world were bandwidth flows like the rivers for FREE and that is WAY off.