Jaguar and Jaguar CD collecting.

[megasdkirby]

I'm really interesed in picking up a copy of Rayman, complete, for Jaguar.

My brother has it and I remember playing it. It was hard, but it was a great platformer.

Busby was terrible, in my opinion. I need to try Soccer Kid.

[tom]

Soccer Kid is available for a few different platforms, and Zool 2 had a PC and Amiga version (I believe), so he may not think those are any more of an incentive.

Soccer Kid was on Amiga computer too

[Rickstilwell1]

This is great advice...for buying a current gen system. This, however, is a forum of classic game collectors, where a game or system simply existing is requisite enough to own it.

Yeah I agree. That's not really what I meant to imply, but was referring to what Guy said about only really needing his Jag for Bubsy 3. Saying that yeah, that's true only if he doesn't play the multiplatform games on the Jaguar if he can play it on something else he keeps hooked up more often.

It kind of makes sense though for the convenience factor:

It's just like if I want to play X-Men: Children of the Atom I have 2 choices: Playstation and Saturn. Since it's multiplatform and I have both versions I won't hook up a different system just to play it, I'll use it on whatever of the two is hooked up for another game. Since I have more PS1 games and I always have a version of that system hooked up, the PS1 disc gets a lot more use. If I do hook up my Saturn and I'm in the mood for the awesome arcade experience it brings, that's when I'll be playing that version of that particular game.

[A Black Falcon]

Zool 2 on the PC (DOS) is stupid, you can't have both music and sound effects at the same time so either there's no music or no sound while you're playing... lame! We all know the soundblaster is capable of more than that! I usually chose the music, so no SFX.

It also annoyed me a lot that such a long and difficult game had no saving and limited continues... I never got anywhere remotely near the end. I imagine that's the same on Jaguar and Amiga, though.

So yeah, okay to good game, but it definitely had some issues. The Chupa Chups advertising is pretty blatant, too. As is how much it rips off stuff like Sonic, just with shooting... oh well, lots of games did that. It is good overall, and the Jaguar does have the only console version. (I wonder why, the first Zool was on like three or four consoles...)

[Ze_ro]

Soccer Kid is available for a few different platforms

Often under different names... Soccer Kid, Marko's Magic Football, Adventures of Kid Kleets, etc. It was available on most systems at the time, so there's not a lot of reason to go after the expensive Jaguar version.

Rayman was first a Jaguar game, and it may be the best version.

I prefer the Jag version myself... but I played it all the way through when it was brand new, and the Jag version was the only one that existed... so my opinion is probably based more on nostalgia than anything (that's right, there are people who feel nostalgia for Jaguar stuff!)

(Switching quote style to save space....)

> Tempest 2000 has a reputation for a reason.

Of course, it's also available on plenty of other systems... not to mention the sequel on the Nuon... so if you're going to buy a system specifically for Tempest, it kind of makes more sense to go for the Nuon.

> AVP has aged very poorly unfortunately

Agreed. Newcomers will not be able to appreciate it properly unless they can manage to put themselves in the correct frame of mind. Believe me, AVP was absolutely amazing at the time.

> The best Jag CD game is Battlemorph, and it is a top 5 title for the system.

Hell, I'd put it at #1. Battlemorph is absolute genius.

> Even if Iron Soldier 2 were cheaper, it would still be impenetrably hard.

Iron Soldier is another game that was incredible in 1995, but these days it'll just seem slow and boring to most people. If you really feel the need to play it, it's worth pointing out that Iron Soldier 3 is available on the PSX (And on the Nuon, in case you ran out and bought one of those after hearing about Tempest 3000!). It's not much of a sequel though... if memory serves me right, it rips of most of it's content from IS1, with most of IS2's enhancements.

> Hover Strike sucks on cart, but is actually quite good on CD.

I really enjoyed Hover Strike back in the days... but the poor framerate will likely turn off most people. It's actually a fairly deep game if you take the time to get used to the floating controls (remember, you're driving a hovercraft... it's SUPPOSED to feel like that!)

> Super Burnout is a sadly overlooked classic which should be purchased before you waste your
> time on Checkered Flag & Club Drive.

Actually, I got a lot of play time out of Checkered Flag... the controls are brutal, but if you can get past them, it's actually a pretty decent alternative to Virtua Racing. Club Drive is also kind of a fun game if you play it right (ProTip: Forget trying to race, screwing around with the bizarre physics engine is much more fun)

> Ultra Vortek is the best one-on-one fighting game.

This is one where I have to disagree... It's definitely the best fighter on the Jaguar, but mostly because the rest of them are so terrible (Kasumi Ninja and Double Dragon V are truly bad). If you compare UV to stuff like SF2 Turbo and MK2 on SNES, it's just not even in the same league.

I actually had a lot of fun with Fight For Life... though that's another one that has aged incredibly poorly.

> Power Drive Rally is hard, but is absolutely one the best overhead racers ever.

Excellent game, and probably in my top 5 for the system. Amazing graphics, and solid gameplay all around.

> Missile Command 3D is excellent.

... but FAR too short. 3D mode only has 3 levels!

> Protector is indeed a better game of Defender than 2000 (the main game basically sucks), but
> Defender Plus mode is still awesome (what the game should've been).

I really enjoyed Defender 2000... I used to play it for hours on end, but I'll admit that it has some serious flaws.

> Cybermorph is much better than most would have you believe, especially when taken in context with Starfox.

Everyone always complains about Cybermorph, but I really don't understand where all the hate comes from. I admit the draw distance is pretty poor, but the only other complaint I hear that has any basis is from the game insulting you when you crash into mountains... okay, well, learn to play the game then? I played this game a lot, and I enjoyed it. Being able to freely fly about the planet was really pretty original back then. Starfox certainly didn't do that. Then again, I actually kinda liked Trevor McFur, so what do I know? (Hey! Trevor McFur had some awesome graphics, and the gameplay wasn't THAT bad!)

Here's some recommendations I'll add:

• Wolfenstein 3D - Best version of Wolf3D in my opinion. It doesn't have nearly as many levels as the PC version or the 3DO version, but I feel this is actually an improvement, as it makes the game more succinct, with more progression. The graphics are also greatly improved.
• Attack of the Mutant Penguins - Very interesting game with a bizarre premise, unique gameplay, and great graphics. There's no music in the game, which is a huge shame, as it could have really made a good game great.
• Atari Karts - A competant Mario Kart ripoff. This game really could have been amazing if Atari hadn't rushed it out the door. With a battle mode and some better powerups, it would have easily beat Mario at his own game. As it is, the graphics are great, the sound is great, and the gameplay is solid. (Oh, and for those of you who I convinced to buy a Nuon, check out Merlin Racing... it's the sequel to this game!)
• Raiden - I still think the Jaguar version is the best version out there. Absolutely perfect in every way.
• BattleSphere - Excellent space combat game. Unfortunately, it's also the rarest and most expensive game on the system, which puts a huge damper on things. It's an excellent game, but I can't in good conscience recommend it at such a high price (Bang and Starlancer on Dreamcast are much more affordable alternatives).
• Evolution: Dino Dudes - This one was available on plenty of other systems (usually called "Humans", or Dinolympics in the case of the Lynx), but the Jaguar version has absolutely amazing graphics that blow the SNES out of the water. Gameplay is solid too.
• Skyhammer - This was one of the Songbird releases, as the game never got released at the time... which is a huge shame, since the game is amazing. It really shows off what kind of 3D the Jaguar was capable of.

While I'm at it, I recommend avoiding Towers II and Primal Rage. The JagCD version of Primal Rage has excellent graphics and fluid animation, and I even managed to look past the bad load times (which included loading before a fatality... lame!)... but what really killed it is that they completely screwed up the combo system. NONE of the combos from the arcade work, and in fact, getting any combo at all is a huge chore. I don't know how they managed to botch this, but it really ruins things.

As for Towers II, it's just really bad. It's the only role playing game the Jaguar got, and I suppose it's bearable, but trust me, it's not worth it. If you're a huge nerd like me and you absolutely have to have every game, then you'll get it anyways... but if you're actually looking for an RPG to play, then look elsewhere.

--Zero

[klausien]

> Ultra Vortek is the best one-on-one fighting game.

This is one where I have to disagree... It's definitely the best fighter on the Jaguar, but mostly because the rest of them are so terrible (Kasumi Ninja and Double Dragon V are truly bad). If you compare UV to stuff like SF2 Turbo and MK2 on SNES, it's just not even in the same league.

I meant on the Jag, brah. Nothing on the system even approaches SF2T. Ultra Vortek is only really passable as a fighting game, but looks like an absolute gem next to its brethren - including the more well known Primal Rage.

Good call on the Raiden! Forgot about that one. It's not "arcade perfect" (mostly due to the large "Euroborder" going on to shrink the horizontal screen size), but it is easily the second best version of Raiden for home console from that time next to the Playstation port. Yes, even better than Super Raiden on the PCE. One of my most played Jag games. I can't believe it slipped my mind (must be all the Raiden Fighters I've played since I last picked it up).

If you need a shmup, Raiden is the one to get. Trevor McFur has no music, and feels like a demo more than a full game. You have to really force yourself to have fun with that one (not saying it can't be done), unless you have a fetish for terrible games.

One last quick note. I am not a huge fan of Wolf 3D or Doom on the Jag, despite their being high quality ports (Wolf 3D especially, Doom lack of music notwithstanding). The problem is that you cannot circle strafe due to the use of a strafe button. Even with the Pro Controller, you can't map strafe to the L & R triggers. It's one of the biggest disappointments I've experienced in gaming (outside of the controls for the Saturn Lobotomy trifecta, but that's more the fault of the controller/dual stick spoiledness).

[A Black Falcon]

# Raiden - I still think the Jaguar version is the best version out there. Absolutely perfect in every way.

Even better than Raiden Project for the Playstation, really?

I'm not sure which is the better port, but based on value the PSX version is obviously by far the best, considering that it's also got the only home console port of Raiden 2 in it. Raiden 1 was on everything, but Raiden 2 was on arcade, PSX, and PC only...

I mean, Raiden's a great game so I'm sure it's worth having, but better than the PSX version... I'm not so sure.

# Attack of the Mutant Penguins - Very interesting game with a bizarre premise, unique gameplay, and great graphics. There's no music in the game, which is a huge shame, as it could have really made a good game great.

It's worth noting that there was also a 1997 PC version of the game, called Mutant Penguins. The same is true for Towers II -- it got released on the PC in 1998. It's not common, and who knows how well it'd work ('90s Win95 games are hit or miss for sure...), but it's certainly cheaper and easier to find than the Jaguar version.

Oh, and as far as Jag CD games go, Baldies also got ported, to the PSX in 2003... also there was a Japanese Saturn version in 1998.

[swlovinist]

I like collecting the system both cart and CD. I currently have 48 carts, and US Jag CD collection. The CD game system is all about the homebrew scene, which is active and growing. There are more homebrew games for the system than released ones. Some of them are quite simple(Atomic), others are remakes(Jagtris), and many are free to download. For a failed system, it has a small and loyal following that I am sure will continue to support the system and make some wonderful games.

[goatdan]

> Tempest 2000 has a reputation for a reason.

Of course, it's also available on plenty of other systems... not to mention the sequel on the Nuon... so if you're going to buy a system specifically for Tempest, it kind of makes more sense to go for the Nuon.

I'd actually like to argue this point -- sorry to bump a thread that was dying again...

Tempest 2000 is probably my favorite game ever made, and the Jaguar version is heads and tails better than any other version I think. And I have played -- and beaten -- every other version of the game that exists since I like it so much. There was:

Tempest 2000 for the Jaguar, Sega Saturn and PC
Tempest X3 for the Playstation
Tempest 3000 for the Nuon, a sequel to the Jaguar game

Ignoring 3000 for a minute, as the other four came out basically together, the issue that Tempest 2000 not on the Jaguar has is that they messed with the balance. Instead of the spikes being able to be blown through once you get the higher powered shot, they remain very difficult to shoot through, basically much like the original game had them, which means that you have to sit in one spot to shoot through them, but the enemies move down at you.

Tempest X3 basically had the difficulty dialed back. Otherwise, I'd adore it, but the biggest issue is the electrical enemies (Pulsars, I believe) get to the end of the web and then act just like any other enemy -- slow. In Tempest 2000 for the Jaguar, the Pulsars were the thing that were both the most dangerous on the web -- as if they did their pulsing thing they could fry you at any moment with basically no warning -- and the most dangerous at the end of the web, as they would race around and you'd have to frantically jump to avoid them. Changing this basically made it so that they weren't as big of a threat, and it really dialed back the intensity that the original has.

Finally, and I think this is in all of the versions except 3000, but I might be wrong as it has been a while -- in the Jaguar version, when you get the AI droid, it goes off and starts shooting things for you that are coming down the web -- in fact, a way to score points if you're patient is to let the spike thing make spikes and then you just shoot them away, and you can't do this if the AI droid is there as it will instantly find and shoot it. On the other versions, the AI droid is basically just like extra shot power, as it hangs on you the entire way around, and won't drift off to take care of an area by itself.

Overall, the games are still good -- I've still managed to play and beat all of them, but the Jaguar version is perfectly balanced and, according to me at least, the most perfect retro update ever done, and simply put the best game ever. The others are all very good games, but they aren't that good. It's worth buying a rotary controller for in my opinion, and is one of the few games that I break out every couple years to beat again.

Finally, Tempest 3000 was the update that Jeff Minter who did the Jaguar version of Tempest 2000 did for the NUON DVD Players. Yup, I bought a NUON just to play this, and the gameplay is solid, but the effects are just a little too much -- whereas Tempest 2000 sometimes had words and power ups and explosions and crap interfere with your view, you never felt like it was cheap -- that was just stuff going on as you advanced in the game. I can never say that I have had a death in Tempest 2000 that I didn't feel was basically my own darn fault, which is the gold standard for me in a game. In Tempest 3000, I found that one in probably four of my deaths were due to a lack of ability to see what in the world was going on, so that alone drop it to my least favorite Tempest update position, and the only one that I haven't beaten. I hear it goes on forever actually, but I haven't even tried getting to level 99 on it.

Writing this makes me want to bust it out and try it again.

If you're collecting for the Jaguar - and I've had a full collection for over a decade now I think - the biggest reason to do it I think is Tempest 2000. The library isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be, it just hasn't aged well as it was at that weird point where 3D was just starting and people didn't exactly know how to use it. Most of the 3D games, even if they were decent in their time (Cybermorph, I'm lookin' at you) look like garbage now. BattleMorph and Iron Soldier II are the few exceptions, and BattleSphere if you have the money for it. The 2D games I think for the most part do hold up well.

I don't remember seeing these mentioned, but I would suggest checking out Zoop and NBA Jam TE on the Jaguar too -- both of these are games that are multiplatform, but the Jaguar versions of both are far and away the best versions of these two games I believe. I also really enjoy or have enjoyed Zool 2, Missile Command 3D, Protector SE, Rayman, Power Drive Rally, FlipOut, Super Burnout, Breakout 2000, and Val D'Isre.