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Thread: SMB2: Doki Doki Panic or Lost Levels?

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    Default SMB2: Doki Doki Panic or Lost Levels?

    It's common knowledge that the game that Nintendo released for the NES in 1988 as Super Mario Brothers 2 did not start life as a 'real' Mario game. For whatever reason Nintendo decided to adopt another game and morph it into SMB 2.

    Japan DID get a real SMB 2 -- just a updated and harder version of the original Super Mario Brothers. That's one reason I've read over the years as to why Nintendo decided (at first) not to release the game -- they felt it was too hard for American gamers, that the public wanted a totally 'new' Mario game, and that it was'nt as fun as the original game.

    So a Japanese game called Doki Doki Panic, staring a Arbian guy, was converted into SMB 2. The game did well enough in the States, despite not being the smash hit the original was.

    Nintendo did eventuly release the 'real' SMB 2 in the States, called Super Mario Brothers: The Lost Levels, one of the games included on the SMB All Stars game for the SNES (in 1994, I think). And it WAS damn hard, much harder then either SMB 1 or 2 was.

    If you've played both games and are a Mario fan, ESPECILY if you (like me) remember getting SMB 2 when it was new and playing it a lot, what's your opinion?

    Did Nintendo make the right decision in releasing Doki Doki Panic as a Mario game or should they have released Lost Levels over here instead? Which game SHOULD have been SMB 2 and why?
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    Hm.. hard to say. Super Mario Bros was the first game I got (as many others) and I love the game.
    Since Super Mario Bros 2 (Japanese) is so to say the exact same game as Super Mario Bros, just with new levels and much harder I dont think it would have sold as much as Super Mario Bros 2 (european/american) would.

    People would like to see new things in games, and SMB2 is much more detailed than SMB. Also had an option to choose between 4 caracher which made the game even more fun.

    So personally I dont think SMB2 (japanese) would have sold as much as SMB (european/american) over in USA and Europe.

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    I think (from the marketing point of view) Nintendo did the right thing. Most of the people bought the game blind because it was the new Mario game and because the first one was just a blast.

    Even if the game was very different than the first one it was still a good game. First I was a bit disappointed after playing it (and it is still my least favourite Mario game from the NES and S-NES) but I got used to it. And so did most of my friends. I don't know if the original game would have been so successfull without the changing into the Mario franchise. It would have sure got less attention and all. Plus I think most of the gamers would not have bought a new Mario game that is similar to the first one but only harder. Mainly because most of the gamers (at least in my area) were kids and the parents had to buy the games. So why buy a game you allready have when you can get a new one? As I said at the beginning: Nintendo did the right thing.
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    ive never played the original japanese version of smb2. could someone post a rom or something?

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    You can find SMB 2 in any copy of Super Mario All-Stars for the SNES. Look for that ROM.

    I'm a bit conflicted on this myself, except to say that Doki Doki Panic itself is a great game (even if it's no Mario game, really), and we may have never seen it over here had Nintendo not commandeered it the way they did. I have lots of good memories with that game.

    Also, there are a lot of people (particularly girls) that I've met over the years who worship the US version of SMB2. So, all in all, I guess Nintendo did the right thing. The Lost Levels are so darn hard that probably would have ended up throwing the cart out the window if it had been released over here.

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    I think that Nintendo made a smart move. Simply taking the original game and upping the difficulty wouldn't have satiated the gaming populace's need for a new Mario game. The die-hards would have embraced it, certainly, but the entity that is 'casual gamer' was rearing it's head at the time, and the change to something fresh kept that segment of the game playing public happy.

    Besides, I think SMB 2 (US) was a fantastic title. I like it much more than I liked the original, but then again, I didn't get the original with my NES. I got the DELUXE set. :P

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    I think either one would have held its own. The original was such a craze that the second would have rode the momentum and sold just as well. Question, on the original Japanese version was there continues like on All Stars, I have beaten it on all stars more than once, but without continues it would have been in it's own league of difficulty.
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    The first time I played SMB 2, I though where the hell are the koopa and goomba's? What are these shy guy things and why cant I stomp anyone anymore? I acutally like the game, but SMB 3 is still my favorite.
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    I actually like them both. Doki Doki SMB2 is definitly different and has good variety, and Lost Lvels adds to the orginial by upping the difficulty quite a bit. Both good games in their own right.
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    I think that Nintendo definatley did the right thing making SMB 2 the way they did (in the U.S). I like the fact that we have 3 totally different Mario games for the NES.
    I do own a pirate cart for SMB 2 Japan, and I think that game is very fun as well, but overall I like SMB 2 U.S more. Mainly because it's much longer, and the gameplay is so different.

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    let's break it down shall we?

    1986- Super Mario Bros. 2 (Famicom Disk)....was not released in the USA due to the fact it was considered too hard and it was the same style of gameplay for American audiences

    1987 = Doki Doki Panic (Famicom Disk) Cute little story based on Arabic fairy tale, based on a Fuji TV Anime...which was the bases of our USA/European Super Mario Bros. 2.....four characters...Papa...Mama....Boy...Girl.....which were turned into these....Papa= Mario, Mama= Luigi, Boy= Toad, and Girl= Princess Toadstool/Peach

    1988 - Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES USA)- Mario Madness takes North America and Europe by storm...

    1992- Super Mario USA (Japanese Famicom)- Japan was pretty much jealous that USA recieved an entirely new Mario game, so by demand they wanted a port of this game for their Famicom...under the re-release name "Super Mario USA!"

    1993- Super Mario All-Stars/Super Mario Collection (SNES USA/Super Famicom JPN)- Nintendo finally reveals truth behind Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Bros. "THE LOST LEVELS"...this was the first time North America and Europe was finally able to play the lost mario game for the first time...

    1999- Super Mario Bros. Deluxe (GameBoy Color)- Re-release of the 1985 Classic, with a bonus hidden feature of unlocking "Super Mario Bros. For Super Players"- Which in reality was a port of "Super Mario Bros. The Losts Levels" aka the REAL "Super Mario Bros. 2"

    2001- Super Mario Advance- Super Mario Bros. 2 (GBA)- Another re-release/port of the Super NES/SFC version of Super Mario 2/Super Mario USA from Super Mario All-Stars/Collection. This edition added a few minor features....yet the Japanese version calls it "SUPER MARIO USA" still.

    2004- Famicom Mini Series Vol. 21- Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japanese Import) (GBA)- yet another re-re-release During the 20th Anniversary of the Famicom/NES, Nintendo has already re-released the Famicom Disk series on GBA cartridge format, which you can find for about $20, yet since most of these games are made for a certain period of time...good luck trying to snag one, because nobody knows when Nintendo will cease to make series 3 of the famicom-mini's.
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    To this day, I hate the SMB2 we got here in the US. It wasn't a real Mario game in my eyes, and I could never break that mental hurdle. I just did not enjoy that game.

    I absolutely love the Lost Levels though. Finished the whole game on 1 life even.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatsu
    I think (from the marketing point of view) Nintendo did the right thing. Most of the people bought the game blind because it was the new Mario game and because the first one was just a blast.
    I'd agree with this entirely. How often have the SMB2 characters showed up in things like Super Mario Kart: DD and other Mario products. Just based on the milage they are still getting out of that, yeah it was a good deal.

    Now personally, I would have much rather seen the Japanese game come out over here. I *hated* SMB2 with a passion and still do. I have never beat the game, and never really wanted to. I just thought it was all dumb.

    I loved SMB:LL on the SNES, and beat that game. Sure, it was hard... but it was fun as heck
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    I'm still in doubt. I like the LL more as a game as it's hard and typical Mario. On the other hand Mario USA was for me always a stange game, it never caught me like 1 and 3. I think commercial it was a good move from Nintendo, but personal I more liked it when the game was released as Doki Doki Panic. I think I always had the wrong expections for Mario USA, as it's not a real mario game and the gameplay is too different.

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    I much prefer the US version of SMB2. I love that game, even if it's not a true mario game. The japanese version of Mario 2 was just too damn hard! Plus, SMB2 introduced shy guys, and they kick ass!
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    I think it was the right choice. Japanese SMB2 probably was too hard for most people, especially without the option to save after every level which was given in the Lost Levels. And as for those backward warps...

    I loved USA SMB2 back then and I still do now. All this talk about it not feeling like a real mario game is true if you're comparing it to SMB1, SMB3, Super Mario World and the rest but at the time there was only SMB1 so it didn't feel completely out of place, just a little different.

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    I posted this article (from EGM) a couple of times before.. but here it is again. It just shows the reporting of what Nintendo was doing as it happened... i.e. there was some dissapointment at it, but it was pretty limited to the hardcore video game freaks then.

    And since I was just in college, I'd imagine most of you were probably toddlers at the time and probably didn't care


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    Hey, I wasn't a toddler! I was either in grade 6 or 7, depending on when the article was published.

    Well, without SMB2 (US), Luigi might have remained Mario's identical twin brother instead of the tall, skinny guy he became (the change in design was prompted by the replacement of sprites)...

    And the game also saw the introduction of the first transsexual character in the Nintendo world: Birdo!

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    I didn't read everyone's posts so if this has already been said than I apologize.

    The only way they should have released the "real" SMB2 in the US is if they included a password save or battery save feature. I'm not sure if the original disk game had that feature but the game is damn hard. My brother and I finally beat it on Super Mario All-stars and without saves we would have been way to frustrated to beat it. Some of the castles are un-possible.

    Well, the original SMB had a secret cheat that allowed you to continue so maybe if they had just included that it would have been fine.

    As far as the game not being different enough I don't think that really matters. SMB was such a huge hit that they stil would have sold a ton of carts. Look at how many sequels Capcom put out such as Mega Man, Duck Tales, etc. I mean I love Capcom but you can't argue that the sequels were a huge leap over the previous version.

    Rebadging a game made by another company and passing it off as a SMB game was genious. No one knew the difference and everyone ate it up. It's still a great game in my eyes but what makes it better was that somehow it felt right. Think about it, how many changes did Nintendo make to the final product? They changed the main characters and a couple of enemies. WIth minimal effort they made a shitload of quiche and managed NOT to leave everyone feeling like we got ripped off.

    Not to stray from the main topic but I believe this falls into the same category as the question" Why the hell didn't we get the true Metal Gear 2?". Snake's Revenge is still great,imo, but come on, Metal Gear 2 would have been the nut on the nes. So they would have had to dumb down the graphics for the nes but the gameplay could have been identical. Or perhaps they could have redone it for the Snes, I mean Metal Gear 2 came out less than 2 years before the Super Famicom, give us Snake's Revenge to tide us over until the 16-bit revolution hit full force and then blow us away with graphics that would make the MSX cry.

    Done and Done.

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