New games on old systems…why not?

[smokehouse]

You know, a buddy and myself were having a turbo nerd gaming discussion the other day. The topic, why won’t anyone make new titles for older systems? With hard memory being as cheap as it gets and with they’re being countless millions of older game systems floating around out there, why not? With some decent funding and some good programmers you could be making NES, SNES, Genesis and Sega CD titles in no time. I’m not sure how the legal end would work but I’m sure Sega would be very cooperative and I imagine Nintendo could be persuaded to allow for the SNES and NES development.

How about new Neo Geo titles? How amazing would that be? You could actually start making good adventure titles and possibly…..a RPG!

Maybe I’m an idiot, maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about but these seems that with some decent funding it would do well. Hell, I know the gaming magazines would help out, imagine on how they would jump on a GOOD new SNES title!

[njiska]

Um, because of basic business logic? That's like asking why people aren't still making things on Beta.

[roushimsx]

Good Deal Games

[smokehouse]

Um, because of basic business logic? That's like asking why people aren't still making things on Beta.

You’re comparing apples to oranges. One is a computer language that is no longer used as an OS, the other is a gaming system. Do you have retro systems? If so then why? According to your logic the GC replaced the SNES which replaced the NES so you should get rid of the older systems in favor of the new ones. A computer running only DOS is next to useless. A NES is not.

A sealed copy of Final Fantasy II or II sells for hundreds. If re-released by square, they could charge $75-100 a piece in limited sale and I guarantee they would sell. The same goes for hundreds of other games.

If small batch games make their way on the market and are really good, they will sell.

[Garry Silljo]

I think that he meant Beta as the rival of VHS (which also near obsolete), not as a dead computer language.

[njiska]

You’re comparing apples to oranges. One is a computer language that is no longer used as an OS, the other is a gaming system. Do you have retro systems? If so then why? According to your logic the GC replaced the SNES which replaced the NES so you should get rid of the older systems in favor of the new ones. A computer running only DOS is next to useless. A NES is not.

A sealed copy of Final Fantasy II or II sells for hundreds. If re-released by square, they could charge $75-100 a piece in limited sale and I guarantee they would sell. The same goes for hundreds of other games.

If small batch games make their way on the market and are really good, they will sell.

But they'll only sell to us, the collector and retro gamers. I can't beleive that there's enough of a market to justify the development costs of any NEW good games. Small original re-releases will sell good, but anything new would have to be made by small groups in there spare time because I don't think any actual developer could afford it. Besides they're all tied up developin for new systems that will take even more development resourfces.

I'd rather just enjoy classic style games on new systems like Metal Slug 6 will be one day.

[jajaja]

I do agree with njiska, its simply not a big enough marked for it. With all the kids today with their Xboxes and gamecubes. They want gfx gfx and gfx, not old "crap".

Of course, I wish they would start making NES, SNES and Neo Geo games again today, it would be damn cool.
If they made, lets say 2000 copies of a NES game today I bet it would sold pretty quickly. But I dot think they would make any huge money on that small amount of copies.

I wish Lucas Arts and Sierra would start making the old 2D adventure games again, but that will never happend unfortunatly

[njiska]

I think that he meant Beta as the rival of VHS (which also near obsolete), not as a dead computer language.

Yeah i think if i had said laser disc it would've been a better comparision.

The point is business has moved on to bigger things.

[anagrama]

Maybe I’m an idiot, maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about

Basically, you nailed it right there.

a) In the VAST majority of cases, the costs of manufacture and production would greatly outweigh the potential profits - yes, us collectors and retro-fiends would snap them up, but you must be living in cloud-cuckoo-land if you think your average "casual" gamer would be interested in a new Sega CD game.

b) Retailers simply wouldn't stock them - all their display units are these days designed for DVD-size cases, and mainstream retailers also tend to get pissy about stocking for more than 3-4 different formats.

c) There already are "new old games" being released for the hobbyist market by folks like Good Deal Games (linked above), the Goat Store, and various homebrewers.

I imagine Nintendo could be persuaded to allow for the SNES and NES development.

[Cmosfm]

Like anagrama said.

There's no market for it besides DP members and other hardcore classic games, which make up 1% or less of the gaming population.

And even then, *I* Wouldn't buy them, and neither would half of the users here, unless it was somethng simply amazing.

[smokehouse]

Good Lord!

There’s no need for the kick in the nuts fellas.

I was going to go into more detail but it seems that my logic is completely lost on this one. Oh well. Just keep insulting me some more…..

For a minuet there I thought I was on another forum with these generated responses…

[njiska]

I wish Lucas Arts and Sierra would start making the old 2D adventure games again, but that will never happend unfortunatly

Sadly that's true becuase i really miss the good old days. The closest thing i've played to a classic adventure game in recent history was Still Life, which was actually pretty good. The adventure company is putting out some decent titles.

[pragmatic insanester]

they did re-issue ff2 (snes). its on the Final Fantasy Anathologies disc, upgraded too.

the only way you can really make/sell "new old" games is by hacking/creating roms, slapping them into a cart, and making a cool sticker.

which i wish someone would do for The Shadow (snes)

[swlovinist]

Smokehouse, I am hearing what you are saying, and I can speak for many on this forum that we are not trying to insult you. I think it is a novel idea, one that has been around since the mid to late 90's when Atari Homebrew scene was starting. The problem is that although it NEEDS to happen, it probably wont. Others have said it, we are the 1 to 5 percent of the gaming community. While an atari game can be a one man show, it is a whole different story when it comes to NES, SNES, and more current systems. New games for old systems can happen, but likely wont on a large scale due to the costs of producing large amounts of games that are very niche. Atari Age, Packrat Games, Good deal games, The Goat Store, are but a few stores that carry "new titles". I bet you can ask them that sales of these games are more for the "love" than the profit, which will always keep it underground. Personally, if retrogaming goes to a larger scale, it will be muddled. I like it just the way it is.

[jajaja]

I wish Lucas Arts and Sierra would start making the old 2D adventure games again, but that will never happend unfortunatly

Sadly that's true becuase i really miss the good old days. The closest thing i've played to a classic adventure game in recent history was Still Life, which was actually pretty good. The adventure company is putting out some decent titles.

You might want to check out Runaway too. Its a 2D adventure game released some years ago as english (been released as spanish and german or something before). I played throught it. I even wrote a walkthrough

I agree with smokehouse, no need to attack him just because he wrote something. What he said would be a great idea, but personaly I dont think (know) it will happend.

[njiska]

Sadly that's true becuase i really miss the good old days. The closest thing i've played to a classic adventure game in recent history was Still Life, which was actually pretty good. The adventure company is putting out some decent titles.

You might want to check out Runaway too. Its a 2D adventure game released some years ago as english (been released as spanish and german or something before). I played throught it. I even wrote a walkthrough

I agree with smokehouse, no need to attack him just because he wrote something. What he said would be a great idea, but personaly I dont think (know) it will happend.[/quote]

Sweet i'll make sure to check it out.

As for smokehouse. I don't think anyone is trying to attack him. You've got to except a certain level of critizism on any forum when you post something and the critizism here is both fair and apt. It's how it works. His idea is novel, it's just horribly impracticle and it's obivously imparticle to the majority of people here. As such anagrama using his words against him was fair (and really mild compared to some insults on here).

TO SMOKEHOUSE: Here are some answers to your questions you asked earlier that i didn't address:

You’re comparing apples to oranges. One is a computer language that is no longer used as an OS, the other is a gaming system.

Beta is a dead Sony format that competed with VHS. Comparing video mediums is just as valid as comparing game systems.

Do you have retro systems? If so then why?

Yes i own many retro systems and the reason i do is to recapture my lost youth. I don't really care about getting new games for them, i just want to re-enjoy my past. I love NES games but there are enough good ones that i don't care if they make new ones.

According to your logic the GC replaced the SNES which replaced the NES so you should get rid of the older systems in favor of the new ones. A computer running only DOS is next to useless. A NES is not.

That's not my logic that's what actually happened. The only people who didn't do that are the collectors like us. It's business. The NES was replaced by the SNES, which was replaced by the N64, which in turn was replaced by the GC, which will be replaced by the Revolution.

The same is true of music formats and video formats. Things change, time passes by, the new becomes the old and therefore the obsolete.

And you're comaprision with DOS hurts you're arguement. I have a DOS box so i can play DOS games that aren't compatible with windows. Things like Terra Nova (i miss looking glass). It's no less useful then a NES.

[Jumpman Jr.]

Because nobody wants to pay the price of a new game for an 8-bit game.

[Alex Kidd]

I don't think it's quite an impossibility as you all seem to claim. Didn't the Sega Master System have it's last game made in 1999... granted it was only in one country, but the fact remains it was a cheap system, that was cheap to program for, therefor even a little profit, is profit in the long run.
I'll just throw an example out to you guys as to how Smokehouse's idea COULD work.

By todays standards how easy/cheap would it be to create and program Shining Force II for the Genesis as an original title (assuming it had never been made)? I honestly don't know how much, but I'm betting it's low enough that it would be a fraction of what it cost in 1994. The most cost would probably go into the creative process as opposed to the technological. So why don't they make say Shining Force IV for the Genny? it'd be easy and it would certainly sell, maybe not a billion copies, but then not every game does, just as long as it turns a profit thats what counts.
You can go ahead and say that poeple want the latest in technology for graphics/sound/etc... but you can't deny that EBGames have their sections of second hand games for Genny,SNES,NES,etc... and why do they have them? not because they lost profits, but because they are making money, the system are out there and sold and being re-sold second hand. And why would Final Fantasy games be fetching over $100 if it's just an old game with shitty graphics that no one wants to play anyway... because people DO want to play them, maybe not as many, but the market is DEFINITELY there. And how many "greatest hits/collection/arcade classic/retro packs" are there to be found for ANY current gen system? TOO MANY... why keep buying age old software for a system way beyond what it takes to run these medeival games?
Nintendo recognized this and thought 'hey, if Joe is going on ebay and paying Bill $10 bucks for Metroid why shouldn't we keep selling it ourselves?' and then they did, only rather than selling NES carts they emulated it onto the GBA. Which I admit was probably cheaper than getting a plant up and running to manufactur NES carts when they already had plenty of GBA cartridge hardware on hand, plus it would help sell their new system.
Maybe emulation of old systems on new systems would help bridge this gap of obsolete systems having the potential to play good games even today (at a fraction of development costs).
But yeah, I must say it's only plausible in theory because you gotta remember these businesses aren't out there trying to give you a product you'll truly enjoy, they want to make money, and an enjoyable product is just one of the many "factors" that go into that process!

Alex Kidd

[BrokenFlight]

I have a friend who's developing a PC game and when I asked him to make a megadrive game for me (not expectant of anything, I might add) he said it was a stupid idea and called me a nerd. Pfffft. He's the computer programmer. I think one of his reasons was because he would need development equipment which is now hard to get hold of. He would also need to know about the development program and how to type the code.

I reckon if it was a really good game you could charge over £20 and keep numbers limited so it retains its value. After all, Streets of Rage 3 and Phantasy Star go for over £30. Production costs for cartridges must have gone down in the last 10 years.

[Graham Mitchell]

I may regret taking you on with this, but oh well.

Yes i own many retro systems and the reason i do is to recapture my lost youth. I don't really care about getting new games for them, i just want to re-enjoy my past. I love NES games but there are enough good ones that i don't care if they make new ones.

See, not everybody owns and uses these machines for the same reasons you do. Personally, I play older games because I appreciate them as art, and I'm interested in seeing the historical progression of gaming firsthand (and finding out what the fuck went wrong !) It's like exploring the back catalog of a band you like, or investigating that Slits album from 1978 because another musician you liked listed it as an influence. I'm not out to recapture my lost youth at all, and from the nature of Smokehouse's suggestions, I suspect he may feel similarly about this.

This has been an idea me and my friend have talked about for years. We would both be interested in something like this if it came about (and he's not a DP user or a collector in any way. )

This all comes down to opinion, really. The broad difference of opinions here is really interesting though. Everybody's either really for this or against it. I wonder if that has anything to do with why it'll never happen.