Best options for grabbing high quality images? (free meseta)

[Hollenscythe]

I currently use s-video connections with a DV box to take screenshots of games from systems. I was wondering if there's a better option for higher quality. Is there a tv tuner card or DV box that has component connections? Has anyone tried capturing from s-video on a TV tuner card... any examples of quality?

What I use (Pinaccle DV box with Pinaccle Studio 8) delivers some mixed results. The biggest problem looks like things are being saved in low res. It happens a lot with the text used for high scores and stuff - it will often be blocky or dirty, the same affect that happens if you save a photo - even as a jpeg - in Microsoft Paint. Here's an example of a pic - Sonic Mega Collection, GameCube:



That's an example of some of the worst capturing - you may have to look close, but the lighter the colors the worst it looks. With older games there's emulators which deliver sharp picture, but for current and next generation consoles - what would be the best set up for the HIGHEST quality images? I know the kind of resolution found on developer media isn't typically capable in consumer capturing equipment - but even to be in the 90% range would be good. I feel like I am often around 60% in some cases.

Those who can give some good advice on this will be eilligable for all of my meseta (, OK, it's not a treasure trove). If there's numerous good responses I guess I will have to split it up.

My biggest question is, do component input devices exist and do they, when combined with a system and component connections, offer a superior source when capturing? If not, are there better products than the ones I am using? One designed, or that works well, for taking images from streaming video input (i.e. the game signal) Anyone know what GameSpot, IGN, etc., use?

Thanks. (I hope)

[CocoVG]

If you're doing any sort of serious video viewing/capturing on a PC, you really need to get a better input solution. I would recommend SigmaDesigns XCard, the only TV card on the market capable of outputting NTSC/PAL/PAL60 through composite, S-Video, SCART and component inputs. It can also generate 480p, 720p and 1080i HDTV signals.

I would couple the XCard with TVedia. Look at screenshots of it in action here. You would get the absolute best quality image from this combination, no question. Obviously there's a host of other features too, seeing as TVedia is designed to be a full Media PC solution.

I have no idea what GameSpot/IGN and the others use for their capturing. I'd imagine it's some direct capture device, or development hardware of some sort. If anyone else knows, I'm sure they'll tell you.

..and you don't have to send over meseta, keep it for yourself - save to buy some goodies from the forum store.

[Gamereviewgod]

If you're not looking for current stuff, then emulators will be your best option. No flaws at all. Even for something like your Sonic pic could've been done in Gens.

[mills]

One thing I know about JPEG is that is does use compression and it does lose quality when you save an image. use the .PNG format for lossless images.

[kingpong]

If you're doing any sort of serious video viewing/capturing on a PC, you really need to get a better input solution. I would recommend SigmaDesigns XCard, the only TV card on the market capable of outputting NTSC/PAL/PAL60 through composite, S-Video, SCART and component inputs. It can also generate 480p, 720p and 1080i HDTV signals.

I'm not familiar with this product, but looking at the site I'm seeing nothing about it having any inputs. Looks like it is purely an output device, including an MPEG decoder.

Getting back to the original post, component input devices do exist, but they're not really consumer level items - you're looking a few thousand dollars for something that can do hi-def (480i/p component capture devices are out there at reasonable prices, if you're serious about it). Don't expect prices to come down on those devices either, despite probably being the only way to capture high definition material in the future once all the content protection stuff is put in place. Of course, when in capturing HD content over an analog component connection, the size of the data will be huge before compression, around 150MB per second.

[mario2butts]

Like many have said, emulators would be easiest. This capture card may be what you're looking for, though. I don't know much about it but It looks pretty sweet. 480i only

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Pro.../pdideluxe.asp

http://www.pixelmagicsystems.com/pro...pdi_deluxe.htm

[Vectorman0]

Unless you are going to drop a load of money on a professional capture suite, I think emulation is the best high quality answer.

[CocoVG]

Thank you Vectorman0, that was the link I intended to post. The PDI Deluxe + XCard combo. It'll turn your PC into something ridiculous, highly recommended. Don't even THINK about a trashy ATI All-in-Wonder card. Their consumer graphics cards are great for gaming, but the All-in-Wonder card is a constant disappointment.

@kingpong: Thanks for pointing out the error, I guess I shouldn't post when I'm tired and have too many windows open in my browser.

[kingpong]

Don't even THINK about a trashy ATI All-in-Wonder card. Their consumer graphics cards are great for gaming, but the All-in-Wonder card is a constant disappointment.

I'll second this. Before moving to a front projector that would take VGA input, I was using a rear projection TV and wanted to be able to connect my PC to it via component (S-Video just didn't cut it), so I got an AIW 9800 Pro. Not only did it do component out, but it would allow me to do video capture, and I figured it had to be better than the old Studio PCTV card I had a few years back. The AIW is absolute garbage when it comes to capture. I have stacks of VHS tapes that I wanted to capture, but I was never able to come up with an acceptable quality capture and gave up on it. The capture abilities were awful, the software was junk, the tuner produced a horrible picture... Avoid AIW cards.

[Flack]

I don't seem to have the same compression problems you're having, although to be fair you're comparing a plain blue background which is going to show that more than a moving screenshot is.

Tell me what you think of the quality before I tell you how I have it hooked up.

[FABombjoy]

The image from Sonic Mega Collection appears to have some ghosting along with wayyyy too much jpeg compression. If you can find a way to clear up the ghosting and save with less compression then the image quality should improve. Can you capture in a different application? Can you try a different cable?

That image resolution is 540x360, which is not a standard NTSC DV frame size. Are you capturing at that size, or has this image been resized post-capture? If you're capturing at that resolution, try changing to the native resolution of 720x480. Your software may be using a substandard resizing algorithm.

Other than that, the colors and image sharpness look pretty well on.

Flack: To me, that image looks really softened, but I've never played the game so maybe it actually looks like that.

[davidleeroth]

Doubt this helps but this capture was taken by a friend with a Pinnacle Dazzle DVC-150 via S-Video. It's from the Sonic Mega Collection PS2 version. Like FABombjoy said, your image looks terribly compressed in comparison.

Also, the PDI Deluxe card runs by the name of Sweetspot in some countries. I think it's fab, if you don't mind investing in a new card.

[robotriot]

Here's an S-Video image captured from a CD32 using a cheap Hauppauge WinTV PCI card:



Original image captured with an emulator in a similar resolution and saved as a JPG as well for comparison:



Ingame shot:

[Flack]

Flack: To me, that image looks really softened, but I've never played the game so maybe it actually looks like that.

I didn't use any filters on it and it was a moving scene, so it's possible that it's slightly blurred.

My Xbox runs composite out to a 4 way switchbox. That switchbox runs out to an 8-port Pelican switchbox. I ran that switchbox out to my VCR's inputs, which has RCA outputs which run into the back of my computer and a $30 MSI TV card.

I'll try and take a picture of the Sonic game tonight for comparison.

[Trebuken]

I have some thoughts.

It sounds like your capturing straight to .jpg, which means on the fly compression. No big deal but I would suggest capturing uncompressed if you can and then using some software program to convert it to .jpg, most programs will allow you to enhace the picture as well, experimenting could create a better image (time consuming).

For older systems you should be able to get a good image with composite or S-video, but I'll agree that an emulator solution would be best, when applicable.

Now if you want to capture component the only affordable solution that comes to mind (haven't tried it) is to buy a HD-PVR card (ATI has one at $149, and a couple others). I assume these have component inputs and can capture images, or some other program ill capture images through them, but not sure. Only easy way I can think of to capture component, though they have some multimedia boxes that stream video wirelessly throughout your house that might do it...

You also try capturing video at a high rate and then extracting an image from the video. This is fairly easy with any number of programs, probably the best result.

Trebuken, retired video capturerer...

[mills]

Many of you are now saying that the .JPG format is compressing far too much. What you may have missed is that I already said this 4th post down from the top.

[FABombjoy]

Right, but JPG is highly variable quality-wise and is still probably the best option for output. Sure PNG can be lossless but it'll be much larger than a JPG. Knowing the purpose to the screenshots would help make a better file format decision. Knowing what formats are supported by the capture software would be handy, too.

[Hollenscythe]

Hey all, OK - first off, wow serves me right for working myself into the ground for the last few days, haven't had a chance to check back in on this thread - which is much bigger than I expected. Thanks to all of the people who responded. I'll try to answer some of the questions people had.

I must point out - to the people who recommended emulators, it's a great solution for the older games but my biggest concern is newer games from newer systems - and as far as I know there's either no emulators for those or they're not very stable.

I agree that it seems that a major problem is that I am doing on the fly compression. Pinaccle offers .bmp and .jpg options - I believe I tried the .bmp, there must be some reason why I stopped, but I've been capturing game screenshots for so long that it is all a blur. I'll take another look later tonight and see if it saves any less compressed. I have several programs that I could use to convert to a .jpg later on. These screenshots are for a gaming site, so I really need the images to be a little less taxing on resources - it covers a hell of a lot of games, if I used .bmp, it'd be a 200GB.

I decided to post a couple of images from newer games - since as others have pointed out it is kind of hard to tell what kind of quaity I get from that Sonic image. The Sonic image I would say represents the lowest quality I have got, while these are examples of better quality.

Here's the original capture: GTA: San Andreas Xbox, 720X480.





Here it is after I performed 'auto color' on the image in Photoshop.



Auto color made it maybe a bit too bright, but the original images turn out too dark and dull. It is especially apparent when you capture images from 8 and 16-Bit games, for example Alex Kidd or Gunstar Heroes - being used to how they were supposed to look when I saw how dull they turned out in the images it was my first clue that it wasn't reproducing the signal perfectly. Of course emulators can fix THAT problem, but I'm just talking in general.

Here's a few extra screenshots from: Forza Motorsport, Colin McRae 2005, Jade Empire and Sid Meiers Pirates. These weren't retouched, they're how they look after capture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...edFrame169.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...edFrame604.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...edFrame246.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...bedFrame50.jpg

These are all from the Xbox and they're probably the best examples of what my current set up can do - I'd say they look pretty good. The Xbox screenshots look the best of the current systems. GameCube games are mixed - The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker looks like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/PNPx/GCN891.jpg

Overall it looks pretty good, but around the top of Link's hat and the flames look like they're suffering from that compression people have pointed out.

PS2 games typically look dreadful on my set-up - the better the graphics are the better they turn out, so most PS2 games look like ass.

Some of the individual questions/comments:

kingpong: I wouldn't be against getting an expensive component device because I take the quality of my images seriously - I'm just not sure that it's worth paying $3000 for something that offers just a bit better quality - I have no way to guage the results I'd get without buying it. Obviously component and s-video are dramatically different, but I'd expect perfection for anything I paid over $1000 for.

My biggest fear is that the quality wouldn't change much at all due to something I am doing wrong. It's clear after a lot of the responses here that the images I have are being corrupted while I save them, so I may face these same problems with this type of equipment too. That said, if I found something that offered amazing results the price would be a non-issue. Lots of good info there, though thanks.

mario2butts:

That looks cool, as with a lot of the stuff I have looked at, I just wish I knew more about it. I wish you could test these things out in places. I'll do a bit more research on it, see what I can find out. Thanks.

to those who brought up ATI A-i-W card, thanks for that. I had considered this, actually earlier in the year. It all added up to being something I was sure would be good but I couldn't get any feedback one way or another. I'll stay away from it.

Flack, I took a shot of The Incredible Hulk Ultimate Destruction on my set up - tried to get the exact same spot, got pretty close - here's how they compare.

Yours:



Mine:



Although I thought your image looked blurry when I first saw it, it doesn't appear that way anymore compared to mine - the color on yours is better, might be a bit sharper too but that could be because I used a larger size. I'll edit it later on and make it to the dimensions of yours... this reply is getting mammoth and I have go to out soon.

davidleeroth:

Actually that does help, since he's using equipment by the same company as mine. Dazzle got purchased by Pinnacle, I believe, but some guy at CompUSA told me Dazzle made the better equipment. I usually take what people at CompUSA tell me with a grain of salt, but as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words and that image is certainly of higher quality than mine. Given that they're from the same stable, same game and one was even taken on a system that I can never get good results on (PS2) I wouldn't expect such a difference. Very interesting.

robotriot:

Thanks for your post, but your images won't load for me.

Trebuken:

A lot of the first stuff I said in my response is based off comments you made. Thanks a lot for all of your advice - its given me a lot to try out when I get home later tonight. I'll update this if I can work out anything that I could be doing with my existing equipment to make things better.

OK, that's about it. I found every response here to be valuable - I just felt commenting on everything that was said would be a little redundant. There's a lot of people here welcome to that meseta I promissed... I have no idea how I should split it up, or if any of you even care. So far anyone who wants it, let me know and I'll split it up between you.