No argument there, but I still see deficiencies. Ack. Well, it's a step in the right direction.Originally Posted by CartCollector
No argument there, but I still see deficiencies. Ack. Well, it's a step in the right direction.
On the title topic, it's silly for a PC games company exec to flame aspects of a console that's a long way off anyway. Means nothing to me.
On the 'Nintendo isn't in the next-gen race' topic, I'd have to agree. I don't think people realize how smart Nintendo is by not trying to out-Xbox the 360, or out-PS the PS3. N64, Gamecube, and DS are all vastly different than their counterparts, and it's done very well for Nintendo over the years. They can concentrate on a variety of fun / family-friendly titles that don't rely on bleeding-edge graphics to be satisfying to those that like them, and also provide titles that the 10-and-under crowd can actually play, which is next to impossible on Xbox or PS series.
I don't think that the Revolution will overlap very much at all with 360 or PS3. 360 and PS3 will be in this huge mythic battle, and Rev will sneak right under the radar for a very stable and steady market of its own.
I don't see any of the next-gen systems going down in flames. Except in flaming posts by fanboys of various factions.
I partially agree with the guy from Epic Games. Graphics are underestimated, they are very important to draw you into a game, they are and were always very importqant for new gen consoles, resolution and high polygon counts count, however, the technical aspects of graphics is a necessary but not sufficient condition to make good games. In this regard he overstated.
They are tools, nothing more; the other aspect of graphics is the artistic use of them, the mood setting, the right use of graphics to immerse you into a game as part of the gameplay, and last but not least, the right balance of them with other aspects of gameplay. Game developers should ask themselves how they can make good use of technical aspects of graphic engines to tell a good story, and not become enslaved in mere high polygon counts.
I share the guys skepticism about the Revolution controller. He didn't say in the video it is a gimmick, but it is an invitation for "gimmicky" games, and I think he's right. The statement has to be seen in the context of the discussion where someone else stated that N is looking for a very different audience, for different gamers to get part of their shrinking market shares back; and I think both are right, and I stated that a couple of times.
To make a final comment about the neverending discusion about the Revolution controller: lets wait, we don't know how the thing will work, we don't know how the interaction with games play out, we haven't seen it in action yet becasue they are no games out there. All we've seen are excited, paid actors jumping on couches waving the thing.
But I can't imagine the controller will be a revolution; it will be more of a tool to play short, simple, and esily accesible party games probably giving you a lot of eye-toy experiences. A tool which has to be seen in the context of Ns marketing strategy to survive the console wars by appealing to casual and non-gamers.
I might care if I actually knew who the hell Epic Games are. :P
While this probably makes me look uninformed (and I having read through the replies, I know they're the Unreal guys, I just didn't know upon reading the topic's title), I think my comment makes a good point. Chances are, if you're a fan of Nintendo and Japanese-developed games, you probably don't give two shits about a company like Epic Games. So while their fans probably very likely agree with their sentiments about the Revolution and Nintendo as a whole, the Nintendo fans have entirely different tastes and see things very differently.
I also seem to recall that that Cliff guy was in Nintendo Power in NES Achievers back in the day, so if he's claiming that Nintendo is so crappy, he's clearly a hypocrite. Maybe it was a long time ago, but he too loved playing a Nintendo console at one point.
That's gotta be one of the worst analogies ever, and pretty offensive to boot.I believe someone is afraid to go into the room and speak to the very top top top man at nintendo and tell him the true state of the union. I am staring to think everyone around him is lying to him like sadamms flunkies were to him.
Gimme a break. First, it wasn't Cliff Blezinski talking, he wasn't on the panel; second, he was probably around ten years old when he was listed in NP in 'Nes Achievers.' Times change. Statements were made about the future. Noone stated the NES was a terrible system with short-sighted marketing in 1988 when Blezinski loved to play SMB (for which he was listed with a high score).
games are for nothing but graphics? Umm Grand theft auto 3 anyone? (a game with so so graphics , being praised for its gameplay and open endedness when it came out)
not to mention it becoming a household name and selling millions , he clearly has not done his homework.
Sure gta has brought bad copies , but it atleast brought something new and innovative and shows thats all it takes to sell a game like gta.
U GAIZ JUST DONT LIKE CHANGE , (builds a artificial foundation here)
Like I said, I don't know anything about Epic Games, so I wouldn't know if it was him speaking or not. I don't care about the company and I don't care what any of its employees have to say about anything in the industry, especially when it's a Western PC developer talking about a Japanese console developer. They may as well be talking about quilting because they are not in tune with the demographic Nintendo caters to at all.Gimme a break. First, it wasn't Cliff Blezinski talking, he wasn't on the panel; second, he was probably around ten years old when he was listed in NP in 'Nes Achievers.' Times change. Statements were made about the future. Noone stated the NES was a terrible system with short-sighted marketing in 1988 when Blezinski loved to play SMB (for which he was listed with a high score).
Anyway, I assume Blezinski is the president Epic Games or some such? If so, he takes some responsibility for what the other employees of the company say. If the guy is claiming that ALL Nintendo products are gimmicks and that no one owns a GameCube, Blezinski needs to talk some sense into him before he further makes the company look foolish and Blezinski look like a hypocrite.
After watching that I found myself thinking along the same lines as gepeto and lendlin. When I first heard about the speculation about the Rev controller I was quietly hoping that I'd see something that would blow me away. In the end, all I could think was that this looked like some sort of awful gimmick. Obviously I don't know anything about the games yet, so my opinion could change. Maybe this controller will be a revolution. At the moment though, I find myself doubting it.
I guess I view it as sort of an extreme version of the DS. Yes, it will have some fun games developed specifically for it but other developers will be compelled to make use of the gimmick in a way that, in the end, doesn't really add anything.
I hate the idea of having to buy add-ons for the controller to get full enjoyment out of games. I want something that I can plug into my TV and be able to
I don't see Nintendo as a player in the 'console wars' either. Maybe it's the lack of information currently available about the console, but the revolution seems to be more of a curio that something that I'm going to rush out and buy. Then again, maybe my view on all of that will change. Even if the console doesn't (or indeed can't) compete against the X360 or PS3 it could well find a niche market of its own.
Even if I'm totally wrong and the controller turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread, I won't be getting one (while the console is alive) unless it's going to have a relatively large lineup of stuff I may actually want to play. As such, if Epic's view is pretty widely held then widespread third party support isn't looking like it's on the cards.
As it is, just wait and see I suppose. First impressions aren't good, but they can be changed.
All things considered: These two points are actually true. Especially the first one.
Are they? First point is opinion. The second point is flat wrong. The number of Cubes sold is virtually equal to number of Xboxes sold. Why is Xbox labeled "success" and Cube labeled "flop" when both sold about 20 million units? Shouldn't they both get the same label?
Repeating myself: No not saying weakest graphics = best seller. Only that graphics is not the deciding factor when customers decide. Any "expert" such as the guy at that conference should know that. Maybe I should make my point different:Nor to bad graphics a market success make
Intellivsion = best graphics but not #1 best-seller
Sega MS = best graphics but not #1 best-seller
Sega Genesis = best graphics but not #1 in 16-bit gen
N64 = best graphics but not best-seller
Xbox = best graphics but not best-seller
Anyone who thinks, "The console with the best graphics will automatically win" has not studied history.
i dont know about the figures but if the console sales were equal (like i thought they were) they may be considering how much money was made off of xbx live and how many games sold divided by the number of consoles. I remeber reading an article that Microsoft was pleased to see a good number of games sold per console. I dont realy know why they say XBX is a better success, im just guessingAll things considered: These two points are actually true. Especially the first one.
Are they? First point is opinion. The second point is flat wrong. The number of Cubes sold is virtually equal to number of Xboxes sold. Why is Xbox labeled "success" and Cube labeled "flop" when both sold about 20 million units? Shouldn't they both get the same label?
The human operates out of complex superiority demands, self -affirming through ritual, insiting upon a rational need to learn, striving for self-imposed goals, manipulating his environment while he denies his own adaptive abilities, never fully satisfied.
--Frank Herbert
In terms of actual $$$$$, Nintendo definitely wins. Microsoft's Xbox division has lost several billion over the last 4 years.
Nintendo is the opposite - they make tons of profit on each Cube game sold & are rolling in dough.
Gosh...I can't believe how many people here just don't know who Cliffy B is.
He was the level designer on the original Unreal - the one that was brilliant. His ideas revolved around pacing - slowing things down then speeding them up during the course of the game. Not really revolutionary - Miyamoto and others had done this for years - but he talked about this principle and really popularized it.
As a level designer, he was key in making the original Unreal so good.
As an executive producer / lead designer on the later games, he was also probably responsible for making those bad (Unreal 2 SUCKED!).
He's known for some flamboyent / colorful comments here and there, but I can't remember just what.
http://www.cliffyb.com/
That's his blog - inane most of the time, honestly.
http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/...ivar/index.htm
A web comic that introduced many of the hordes on the internet at the time to some of the "big" names in PC game development: John Carmack, John Romero, Cliffy B, etc.
And keep in mind that Epic not only makes Unreal, but also the Unreal Engine - which powers several games for both console and PC (but was primarily a PC 3D graphics engine).
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/
Now, as many of us have realized, PC games are waning in popularity - and sales. Of course, now that the Xbox is becoming more popular, and because the Xbox is so similar in architecture to the PC, this opens up a lot of avenues for Epic to realize a LOT more money / revenue either from their own games or from games that license their technology.
This guy's effusive praise of the Xbox 360 and his obnoxious "fanboyism" is most likely motivated by one thing only: GREED. The more people have Xbox 360s, the more people are probably going to pour money into Epic's pockets. This also explains his promotion of graphics as the most important part of games - if people actually believe this lie, then that makes the Unreal Engine a much more valuable property.
The next version of the Unreal tech also works on PS3, so he probably doesn't care if people get a PS3 - BUT it doesn't support the Nintendo Revolution / Gamecube...which would explain very well why he doesn't think too much of that platform.
I think it should be plain and apparent to anyone that this guy cares far more about graphics (and, subsequently, his own company's profits) than about good quality games. Whether you agree or not with him that the Xbos 360 is the "best" next-gen console, you probably wouldn't agree with him for the same reasons - i.e., it's the best because it's going to make Epic the most money.
You are startled by a grim snarl. Before you, you see 1 Red dragon. Will your stalwart band choose to (F)ight or (R)un?
He should just say so.
Instead his "the best graphics will be the best selling" sounds stupid.
Somebody hasn't played Unreal Championship 2, have they?
I also don't think it's stunningly brilliant for Nintendo do keep their console under wraps, and developers in the dark for so long...
This sort of lack of attention to what's being said is just embarassing.
Actually, I have played it, and I think it sucks ass. All it is is a typical "run-n-gun" at a fast pace. I'd take Goldeneye, Half-Life or even Halo over that mediocre garbage any day.Somebody hasn't played Unreal Championship 2, have they?
It's sorta apples and oranges there, Unreal Championship is a MP-centric game that concentrates on Deathmatch and other player vs player action.Actually, I have played it, and I think it sucks ass. All it is is a typical "run-n-gun" at a fast pace. I'd take Goldeneye, Half-Life or even Halo over that mediocre garbage any day.Somebody hasn't played Unreal Championship 2, have they?
Goldeneye, Half-Life, and Halo have a bit more depth because of their single-player campaigns, backstories, etc. The pace of play is a lot slower.
It's all kind of a matter of personal preference. I lean towards ID MP games on PC, myself. I'm admittedly spoiled by the superior hardware, detail, framerate, and response that you get from a decent gaming PC. I'm having a good time with Quake 4 right now .. and I hated Halo so much I sold my Xbox.
Just goes to show that not everyone wants to play the same games
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