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Thread: NextGen and HDTVs

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    Cherry (Level 1)
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    Default NextGen and HDTVs

    So yea... I'm considering the new generation... but honestly there is no point to buy a PS3 to play it on your regular old low-resolution TV... at least that is my personal opinion

    Now, I don't know much about this HDTV thing... the tehnology behind it - all it says to me is better resolution

    So I was wondering... would it be possible to maybe connect the PS3 to a computer monitor to get the HDTV look? I have an awesome big monitor that I could use... would it be possible?

    I sure don't have money for a HDTV right now... if my monitor would do just as good I would be very pleased ^_^

    Sorry if this is a really stupid question... I don't really know much about the whole "HD" thing

    thanks
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    Default Re: NextGen and HDTVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian
    So yea... I'm considering the new generation... but honestly there is no point to buy a PS3 to play it on your regular old low-resolution TV... at least that is my personal opinion

    Now, I don't know much about this HDTV thing... the tehnology behind it - all it says to me is better resolution

    So I was wondering... would it be possible to maybe connect the PS3 to a computer monitor to get the HDTV look? I have an awesome big monitor that I could use... would it be possible?

    I sure don't have money for a HDTV right now... if my monitor would do just as good I would be very pleased ^_^

    Sorry if this is a really stupid question... I don't really know much about the whole "HD" thing

    thanks
    I don't know if the PS3 is gonna have a VGA (analog) or DVI (Digital) cable but i know the Xbox 360 does so it's a possibility.

    I myself plan on using a PC monitor for my HD solution. 21" and every inch is sexy.

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    Cherry (Level 1) KingCobra's Avatar
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    Going to depend on the game software this coming gen, muti-porting sucks if their just gonna port form the weakest system :/ that was just flatout sad playing PS2 ports on the Xbox.

    Just let the rich buy it all and see what's up

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) Nez's Avatar
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    You'll probably be ablt to use a vga converter at the very least. It has worked on my Xbox some GC and few PS2 games. Oh and almost all DC games work with VGA as well. So I'll be suprised if the 360 ps3 wont be vga compatable.
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    Kirby (Level 13) diskoboy's Avatar
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    I hate to tell you this, but you probably have a year or so to worry about this if you're talking PS3... Especially since not much of ANYTHING is known about the PS3 yet. But anyway, here's Diskoboy's handy-dandy HDTV glossary.

    480i - A normal, analog TV signal. Runs at a resolution of 640x480 interlaced.

    480p (AKA- Extended Definition TV) A digital signal still running at 640x480 in progressive format. The progessive scanning (the p in 480p) fills in the segments of the interlaced signal. The result is a noticably sharper picture.

    720p - The first of the HD signals. The resolution is 1280x720, in progressive mode. Most computer monitors can recieve this signal. This signal is also common in DLP and LCD TV's.

    1080i - The highest resolution HD signal in an interlaced format. The res is 1920x1080.

    1080p - Same as 1080i, but running in progressive mode. An AMAZING picture, but TV's that support 1080p usually start around $4000.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) The Manimal's Avatar
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    i'm pretty sure 480i is still DIGITAL


    480 vertical lines resolution, interlaced - digital

    i've tried outputting 480i to an analog TV and just get a black screen.

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    Bell (Level 8)
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    Default Re: NextGen and HDTVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian
    Now, I don't know much about this HDTV thing... the tehnology behind it - all it says to me is better resolution
    Bingo. About 4 times as many pixels. Wal-mart has a decent HD Tube for only $350.
    .

    (•¿•) - "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
    Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    "Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use." - Emily Post ----- Component Video looks just as good as RGB, is a heck of a lot easier to set up, and also a lot cheaper!

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    Strawberry (Level 2)
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Manimal
    i'm pretty sure 480i is still DIGITAL


    480 vertical lines resolution, interlaced - digital

    i've tried outputting 480i to an analog TV and just get a black screen.

    480i is not digital. that is the standard resolution of all TVs.

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    Bell (Level 8)
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    480i is both analog & digital

    480i the visible portion of the NTSC analog signal - actually 525 scanlines if you count the hidden borders


    480i is also the digital ATSC standard for backwards-compatibility with old TV shows - more accurate expression is 640 x 480i x 60 fields

    It's both.
    .

    (•¿•) - "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
    Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    "Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use." - Emily Post ----- Component Video looks just as good as RGB, is a heck of a lot easier to set up, and also a lot cheaper!

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) hezeuschrist's Avatar
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    I'm just gonna go ahead and preempt the rest of this thread.

    So you’re in the market for an HDTV? Well, look no further. This FAQ is designed to aid and assist all of you in this brand new world of increased clarity and resolution. Although this is not the definitive source for HDTV information, it has been designed as an easy-to-read reference to the main points of the HDTV world.

    What is HDTV?
    It stands for High Definition TeleVision. It’s the latest television standard and it allows for high resolution and a more film-like viewing experience with complete support for widescreen formats. On top of that HDTV broadcasts can carry a digital audio signal, such as Dolby Digital 5.1.

    What resolutions does HDTV support?
    640x480 interlaced (480i) *16:9 not taken into account here
    640x480 progressive (480p) *16:9 not taken into account here
    1280x720 progressive (720p)
    1920x1080 interlaced (1080i)
    1920x1080 progressive (1080p) *Note that 1080p is not common on most HDTV sets, nor does it have a lot of support at this point.

    What’s interlaced?
    A television’s horizontal lines of resolution are called “scan lines.” With interlacing each image refresh only contains the odd scan lines or the even scan lines, never both at the same time. It takes two passes, each at 1/60 fps to draw a complete picture. Even then, the complete picture is never truly displayed. However, this is all acting so fast that our eyes just see one complete picture every 1/30fps. Interlacing was originally designed because of the limited bandwidth of original TVs. In this modern day and age, interlacing is horribly antique and not the best way of displaying a picture or drawing 60fps sources. Some common problems caused by interlacing are flickering, shimmering, and stair-stepping.

    What’s progressive?
    Progressive scan is the TV drawing a complete picture every frame. Not only do broadcasts move more realistically, but due to the increased bandwidth of the video signal images are more clear and defined.

    What is EDTV?
    EDTV is simply like your regular analog TV, except that it can also display a 480p signal. EDTVs are not HDTVs, and are definitely worth staying away from if you really want to buy an HDTV.

    What’s the difference between “HD” and “HD-Ready?”
    The difference here is that an HD-Ready television will accept any HD signal but not through over-the-air broadcasts. An HD-Ready TV is devoid of the necessary HD Tuner. An HD television has a built-in HD Tuner. Just plug n’ play!

    What about for you European folks? Well, an HD-Ready set in EU must display a minimum of 720p, must be able to have component in along with either a DVI or HDMI input, and be able to display the following resolutions:
    1280x720 @ 50 and 60Hz progressive (“720p”) and
    1920x1080 @ 50 and 60Hz interlaced (“1080i”)

    What are all of these video connections for?
    To accommodate HDTV’s higher bandwidth requirements there have been some exciting and new video connections that you can use. To make sure no one is confused here is a complete listing of all video connections in order from worst to best and the video quality they provide.

    RF (sometimes referred to as coax cable). RF cable uses radio frequency to send both audio and video information to your television set. This is the worst type of video connection you can have.

    SCART. This cable is most commonly used in European countries. It’s a 21-pin cable that is bi-directional and carries video and audio.

    Composite (sometimes referred to as RCA). Composite cable uses one dedicated cable for video (commonly colored yellow) and two for audio (left channel [commonly colored white] and right channel [commonly colored red]). This offers a clearer picture than RF, but is marred by the limited bandwidth of the cable. Reds have a tendency to bleed into other colors and pixel-crawl (where it looks like tiny dots are moving along the edge of items, sometimes referred to as dot-crawl) are common problems with this type of connection.

    S-video. S-video is a video only cable, which offers a very clear and detailed picture. S-video cables separate the video signal into color and black & white information. This separation allows for increased detail and does not suffer from pixel-crawl or any of the other problems associated with RF or composite cables. If you have S-video, use it! The end of the cable almost looks like a PS/2 adapter.

    Component (sometimes referred to as RGB cable). Component cables are the minimum requirement to view high-definition signals. It is the best of the analog cables (RF, composite, and s-video). Component separates the video signal into black&white, and the colors red, green, and blue. Component cables don’t offer all that much more clarity than s-video on traditional sets. Component cables are usually colored green, red, and blue and are bundled with left and right audio cables.

    DVI-D (Digital Visual Interface). DVI-D cables carry the video information in a completely digital state. DVI cables will transmit HDTV signals. Think of it as a component cable in terms of visual quality, but with the ability to copy-protect the video signal (see What is HDCP?)

    HDMI cable (High-Definition Multimedia Interface). In terms of quality HDMI is about the same as DVI in that it also transmits the signal digitally. HDMI also carries an audio signal with the video signal, so it’s an all-in-one cable.

    What is HDCP?
    We can all thank Metallica for this one. Since the inception of Napster, corporations around the globe have been paranoid about protecting their intellectual properties. HDCP, which stands for High-bandwidth Digital-Content Protection, encrypts HD signals as they are passed along the video cable. All in all, HDCP was designed as a way to maintain the integrity of HD sources and prevent unauthorized reproduction. DVI and HDMI cables utilize HDCP.

    What types of HDTV can I get for (insert dollar amount here)?
    All HDTVs are not created equal. Some feature different technology to produce the beautiful moving pictures we see. Here are the different types coupled with their pros and cons. Naturally higher-end HDTVs will yield higher end results.

    Direct-view
    Direct-view TVs are what we are most familiar with, with a glass front tube encased in plastic. DV TVs have a tendency to not be bigger than 36”. They are mainly limited to CRT technology-based tubes (see CRT).

    Rear-Projection
    Rear-Projection TVs use CRT tubes, LCD, or DLP technology to reflect the image off of mirrors from inside the unit, thus projecting the image out through the front of the TV. This technology allows for bigger display sizes.

    Front-projection
    This is essentially the same principle as the movie theater. A "projector" is seated behind the person with the image projected onto a wall or screen in front.

    CRT (Cathode Ray Tube)
    This is the television technology we’ve been using for almost ¾ of a century. Similar to the PC monitor you’re using right now, this is essentially TV’s technology refined throughout the years. CRT based HDTVs are easily the least expensive of the group. CRT-based TVs (especially direct-view) offer the best picture quality out of all the technology.
    Pros:
    Least expensive, excellent picture quality, great black levels (black is truly black), technology is mature, excellent viewing angle
    Cons:
    RPTVs are Prone to burn-in (see What is burn-in?), larger sets have a big profile, sets are fairly heavy, RPTVs may require fine-tuning of picture (i.e. convergence) initally and periodically afterwards

    LCD (Liquid Crystal Display)
    LCD elements glow red, green, or blue to display the picture. Gameboy Advances use LCD screens, and are a good example of the technology.
    Pros:
    Good picture quality, very thin profile, very affordable, excellent viewing angle, no need for convergence
    Cons:
    “Stuck Pixels” can occur (where single LCD elements are permanently stuck glowing red, green, or blue), blacks levels aren't as good as CRTs

    Plasma
    Countless pockets of gas are jolted with electricity to glow red, green, or blue. A neon sign acts in a similar fashion.
    Pros:
    Excellent picture quality, very thin profile, available in large sizes (up to 80")
    Cons:
    Especially prone to burn-in (see What is Burn-in?), very high price tag, black levels still bested by CRT

    DLP (Direct-Light Projection)
    DLP TVs use millions of tiny mirrors to refract the television image out of the unit. Think of it as a super RPTV, but with a better technology base
    Pros:
    Awesome picture quality, very thin profile, very affordable
    Cons:
    Some notice a “rainbow effect,” where streaks of colors can be seen by moving one’s eyes rapidly across the screen

    What is Burn-In?
    This is where a static image gets permanently imprinted into the HDTV display technology. Stock-tickers, letter-boxing, and pillar-boxing are such an example. If a static image is displayed on the screen for a lengthy period of time, it gets “stuck,” and the shadow of the image is forever displayed on your set. This is irreversible and very expensive to correct (often requiring a complete replacement of the main technology of the TV). The best way to combat this is to give your set a break every few hours, especially if you’re playing video games (which have lots of static images, such as HUDs). Either turn off the TV set or watch a TV channel for about fifteen minutes or more. With a little common sense and care, you’ll never encounter this problem.

    What's this jazz I hear about native resolutions?
    Your HDTV's native resolution can be a very confusing aspect of your purchase. The vast majority of all HDTVs have a native resolution, one where they offer a pure signal without any downscaling or upscaling. Most DLP, LCD, and Plasma sets have a native resolution of 720p, while CRT-based sets have a native resoltuion of 1080i. Let's take a DLP set for example. It has a native resolution of 720p. A 720p source displayed on our DLP set will be displayed pixel-for-pixel. Now what about when we try to display 1080i? Well, the DLP set is incapable of displaying the 1080i signal at that very resolution, due to it's native res being 720p. The set must now downscale your 1080i signal to be displayed at 720p. A 480p signal, then, would be upscaled to 720p. Naturally the image quality will be best at its native resolution, but most consumers cannot notice a decrease in image quality if your HDTV source is upscaled (or downscaled). This aspect of HDTVs is very subjective to each individual's preferences. I have a CRT HDTV and I like to run all of my progressive-scan sources downscaled (or in the case of 480p, upscaled) at 540p, while keeping my 1080i signals at 1080i. I could very well run everything upscaled to 1080i, but again, this is all personal preference.

    I have an HDTV, can I get HDTV programming now?
    For the viewing of HDTV television programming, you need an HDTV decoder. HDTVs either come with an HDTV broadcast decoder or they don’t. If your particular set came with a built-in decoder, then all you need to do is hook up some rabbit-ears to your set and tune in to any channel displaying an HDTV signal. Otherwise you need an HDTV decoder to receive and display HDTV broadcasts. HDTV decoders are sold by themselves or they can come packaged with a Cable or Satellite TV receiver. Once you have a decoder you can enjoy all of the benefits of an HDTV signal.

    Video games or movies as an HDTV source don’t follow this decoder rule. If you have a video game system that outputs HDTV or a DVD player that is progressive scan, then technically the HDTV decoder is already built into the particular electronic component. All you need to do is just hook up the component to your HDTV and your HDTV will do the rest.

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    Strawberry (Level 2) mario2butts's Avatar
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    The PS3's "best" connection will be HDMI, which is a digital connection much like DVI; in fact, as far as I know, HDMI to DVI cables are readily available. HDMI can't be (easily) converted to analog VGA, so unless you're using an LCD monitor with a DVI port, no dice. I'm pretty sure all CRT monitors (big and heavy) are VGA only.

    The thing about HDMI is that, since it is a pure digital connection, companies can "encrypt" the data that pases through it via HDCP (high definition copyright protection). HDDVD and Blu Ray manufacturers are planning on making their machines so that movies will ONLY play in HD if connected via HDMI or DVI to an HDCP enabled TV. If you cant make this connection, you can still view the content via a component video connection but the player will only output in 480p (extended definition) resolution, the same as the a normal DVD player. There are a few PC monitors that support HDCP, but not many. One of them is viewsonic's 23" LCD.

    The PS3 MAY do this sort of thing. So if you want to use a computer monitor you may be limited to 480p via a component video connection. Component can be converted to VGA via a "transcoder", like the VDigi VD-Z3 (google it, its around $60)

    Then again Sony may play nice and offer HD via HDMI without HDCP, or be even nicer and allow the HD signal to be output via the less pretty but much more common and compatible component video connection. We'll see. Bottom line, don't fret too much you probably will be able to play your shiny new PS3 on a PC monitor, but Sony decides to be a bitch then you may be limited to 480p.

    The Xbox 360 is a different story: 720p via component video. Microsoft was even nice enough to offer a VGA cable so you dont need a transcoder. It still may be a good investment to get a transcoder anyway, though, since then you can play any 480p capable game for Xbox 1, PS2, and Gamecube on your PC monitor, too! Provided you have the component cables for those systems.

    If you really want to delve into the depths of A/V science, check out

    www.avsforum.com

    This website is a great source of info but its easy to get lost!

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    Bell (Level 8)
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    Everyone else - except Japan - is using Europe's Digital Television. Why did the USA have to be different and adopt ATSC?
    .

    (•¿•) - "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
    Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    "Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use." - Emily Post ----- Component Video looks just as good as RGB, is a heck of a lot easier to set up, and also a lot cheaper!

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) The Manimal's Avatar
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    Japanese have Super Hi-Vision prototypes I think.. Insane stuff!

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) Nez's Avatar
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    From reading that little faq it seems like DVI HDMI doesn't look all that much better then component. Or did I just read that wrong.
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    Bell (Level 8)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nez
    From reading that little faq it seems like DVI HDMI doesn't look all that much better then component. Or did I just read that wrong.
    HDMI has serious flaws. It's prone to rapid loss of signal - any length over 4 feet and your picture gets garbled with bit errors! Even shorter lengths can be disrupted by strong radio waves. I don't want it.


    Component video - by keeping the 3 color signals separate - is more robust & won't lose the picture even if you run it 20 feet across the room. I want this.


    Sony and the rest pick the inferior/flawed HDMI. Of course. About the same as choosing ISA as your computer's video bus. Dumb.
    .

    (•¿•) - "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
    Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    "Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use." - Emily Post ----- Component Video looks just as good as RGB, is a heck of a lot easier to set up, and also a lot cheaper!

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    Strawberry (Level 2) mario2butts's Avatar
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    Sony and the rest pick the inferior/flawed HDMI. Of course. About the same as choosing ISA as your computer's video bus. Dumb.
    Unfortunate for us, maybe, but not dumb. With a pure digital connection like HDMI companies like Sony can use more foolproof methods of copy protection like HDCP (see my earlier post). And also I've read that component doesn't have the bandwidth to transmit 1080p resolution, while HDMI does. Since the PS3 is touted to support 1080p this is something to consider.

    Though, yes, I too hope that Sony will keep things simple and offer HD (720p/1080i) through component.

    Component video - by keeping the 3 color signals separate - is more robust & won't lose the picture even if you run it 20 feet across the room. I want this.
    Just to clarify- component doesn't exactly keep the three color signals separate (like RGB). The green cable is the luminance signal (that is, the black and white picture without color). Try plugging in just this cable and not the red/blue ones, or plug it into your TV's composite video port: you'll get the video source in black and white. The red and blue cables carry the color information. I'm not debating the quality of component, just clearing up a common misconception.

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    Bell (Level 8)
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    True - Replace "color" with "color difference" signal.

    RBG would need 4 cables to send the whole picture.
    .

    (•¿•) - "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
    Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    "Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use." - Emily Post ----- Component Video looks just as good as RGB, is a heck of a lot easier to set up, and also a lot cheaper!

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    Cherry (Level 1)
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    okay... so putting all those paragraphs of technical stuff together... let me simplify this a bit

    A computer monitor is powerfull enough to display an HDTV quality picture.... however it would require for the PS3 to have support for the VGA or DVI cable

    Is this little summary of the topic correct?
    ------------------------------

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    Strawberry (Level 2) mario2butts's Avatar
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    okay... so putting all those paragraphs of technical stuff together... let me simplify this a bit

    A computer monitor is powerfull enough to display an HDTV quality picture.... however it would require for the PS3 to have support for the VGA or DVI cable

    Is this little summary of the topic correct?
    Yes.

    Or if the PS3 to support HD resolutions over component, and you get VDigi's $60 component to VGA transcoder, then you're in good shape.

    http://www.vdigi.com/

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    Alex (Level 15)
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    I recently bought a Sony Widescreen WIGA Trinitron 32 Inch TV with HDTV Ready ability. I know my TV has HDMI connections in the back, so no problem with the PS3. (Has anything been said about how the Rev is going to use high def TV's?)

    I defentily prefer the old fashioned CRT model for movie and game watching. Projections you STILL need to be dead on for the best angle and everything I can find online says burn in is very uncommon for a CRT as opposed to a projection. And anything else was out of my price range.

    I've also noticed I have Monitor plugs in the back, though I'm not really sure what that is for and the manual is no help. Anyone know?
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    By swlovinist in forum Classic Gaming
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 05-17-2003, 09:46 AM

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