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Thread: 'Metal Gear Solid 4' - Kojima could have done it on 360

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    Default 'Metal Gear Solid 4' - Kojima could have done it on 360

    Oh boy, I can just see the 360 Fanboys dancin' over this one.

    http://1up.com/do/feature?cId=3145585&did=1

    About 4 minutes into it, Sam Kennedy mentions that Milkman from EGM, was talking to Kojima the other day. Kojima mentioned to Milkman that what he did with that MGS4 trailer, could have been done on 360. I mean, we don't know if he just meant the trailer, or the actual game, but its interesting nevertheless.
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    Yeah, but it wasn't.
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    Cherry (Level 1)
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    It's a stupid and obvious statement :P Hell, you could make MGS4 on the 2600, the question is, how would it turn out? It's all interpretive.

    This is about as meaningful as saying "You know, fish also have eyes." ..

    Truth without insight, gotta love it.

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    Bell (Level 8) GrayFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkaign
    It's a stupid and obvious statement :P Hell, you could make MGS4 on the 2600, the question is, how would it turn out? It's all interpretive.

    This is about as meaningful as saying "You know, fish also have eyes." ..

    Truth without insight, gotta love it.
    For some reason, I can only assume Kojima didn't want his words to be taken this way.

    From the way Sam talks about Milke's conversation with him, it pretty much sounds like that ATLEAST the trailer could have been done on the 360, according to what they said.

    I could care less because I'm buying both, but maybe people should realize that maybe the 360 is a bit more powerful then previously imagined.
    ~~~GrayFox~~~
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayFox
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkaign
    It's a stupid and obvious statement :P Hell, you could make MGS4 on the 2600, the question is, how would it turn out? It's all interpretive.

    This is about as meaningful as saying "You know, fish also have eyes." ..

    Truth without insight, gotta love it.
    For some reason, I can only assume Kojima didn't want his words to be taken this way.

    From the way Sam talks about Milke's conversation with him, it pretty much sounds like that ATLEAST the trailer could have been done on the 360, according to what they said.

    I could care less because I'm buying both, but maybe people should realize that maybe the 360 is a bit more powerful then previously imagined.
    Thanks, Carey for that wonderful bit of info. If taken literally then i'm very pleased about the future of the box.

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    When I saw this thread, I thought: "The Metal Gear Solid series - Kojima could have done better."

    Hahaha.
    Then Morgoth hurled aloft Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld, and swung it down like a bolt of thunder.

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    It' worth noting that apparently the comments were inaccuarate. 1up.com will post any further news as soon as they get it.

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    Yet MGS4 will stay to its lover ps3 and only release crappy titles for other systems. (besides twin snakes that was pretty good in some ways).

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Metal Gear Solid 4' - Kojima could have done it on 360

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayFox
    Kojima mentioned to Milkman that what he did with that MGS4 trailer, could have been done on 360.
    That seems to be code for "and that's less ambitious than where we are now."

    Still, good news regardless.

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    Cherry (Level 1)
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    Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

    Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

    Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

    In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

    Bah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkaign
    Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

    Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

    Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

    In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

    Bah
    That is unless that is unless we see a lot of lazy development teams, like the on behind Mteal Gear Solid 2: Substance on the Xbox.

    Even with good dev tools we're still gonna see a lot of sloppy, sloppy ports.

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    Cherry (Level 1)
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    Did you even read my post? That's exactly why I said it depends on so many factors, including competence and quality of programming and production.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkaign
    Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

    Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

    Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

    In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

    Bah
    That is unless that is unless we see a lot of lazy development teams, like the on behind Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance on the Xbox.

    Even with good dev tools we're still gonna see a lot of sloppy, sloppy ports.

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    I would think by now you guys would quit taking things Mr. Kojima says so directly. He's just running tech specs through his head is all, not saying he wants to jump ship or what graphics package this and that. Hell, the whole time he was developing Metal Gear Solid 2 he was playing Pokemon on a GameBoy - he said that was his second job, he'd work on MGS2 then play Pokemon. Gamers, not corporations (I'm looking at you EA) should make games.

    Also as with the lackluster sloppy port of MGS2 to the XBox, Sony will promote MGS as a flagship title - Microsoft would see it as just another third party release. (Kinda like how they killed any possible continuing success with the Shenmue franchise in the US - everyone was excited about Shenmue II on the Dreamcast - then a year later when Microsoft finally released it on the XBox, no one cared) Look at all the great games that Microsoft dropped from exclusivity because they weren't "designed for the mature gamer." Signing with Microsoft still has way too much uncertianty unless you're under one of their development houses - Sega is just one example. (since Gun Valkyrie, Panzer Dragoon Orta, and Jet Set Radio Future sold SO well and really created strong new IP's for the modern face of Sega and their partnership with Microsoft )

    I'm not a fanboy for any console (except maybe the VFD tabletop games ), that's just the honest truth of what has happened.

    As Arkaign said, it has to do with a lot of things. Mr. Kojima isn't owned by one company or another - he isn't a drone like Shigeru Miyamoto *waits for 4/5ths of DP to kill me* that cranks out the same shit year to year repackaged in different ways that still isn't as good as it was 15 years ago. (that's why there's thread after thread about the Generation Nex, most still see the NES as Nintendo's high point) Hideo Kojima is a designer in every sense of the word, and he has a lot of "what if's" and "hmmm...'s" in his head, which is exactly what you want the people developing your games to do.

    ...then again watch there be a remake of Snatcher or Policenauts on the XBox 360, something crazy like that just to shut me up.
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    Cherry (Level 1)
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneDavid
    Gamers, not corporations (I'm looking at you EA) should make games.
    Best.post.ever

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkaign
    Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.
    What, Kojima doesn't speak with his developers now, is that it? Is that just like the time he was saying that the Revolution might be the most affordable console (to develop for), that was just out of thin air, too?

    Uh...no.

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    You misunderstand my post, I wasn't criticizing his comment, it's true enough, but not SPECIFIC enough, and positive or negative reaction to such a statement is not logical. That is all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkaign
    You misunderstand my post, I wasn't criticizing his comment, it's true enough, but not SPECIFIC enough, and positive or negative reaction to such a statement is not logical. That is all.
    So then, my comment to the effect of "this raises the bar of what we can expect on the PS3, and also is a shot in the leg for the 360" is illogical? Looks like you started misunderstanding people first.

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    Well, it's interpretive but not definitive. It will be quite a long time (3 or more years) before the ultimate capabilities of 360 and PS3 are known in terms of extracting the possibilities. See every other major console in history for previous examples.

    The statement attributed to Kojima regarding MGS4 'could have been done on x360' is utterly obvious and completely generic. It would be ignorant for anyone to suggest that you COULDN'T do it on 360. In fact, you could make the game on an N64, Xbox1, etc, etc, if you simply define it as 'could have been done', ie : possible.

    In fact, I'd really like to know what his exact words were, hearing it in an offhand comment by some other guys probably dilutes or confuses what his point was. In the end, nothing relevant or informative comes through from this. The technical specifications for 360 and PS3 are so close, that it should have been obvious in the first place that there wouldn't be a title for one that would be impossible for the other. Arguably the data capacity per disc might limit the 360, but there's always disc swaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkaign
    Well, it's interpretive but not definitive.
    You just need a little imagination - he's saying "the team now is at the point where they've tightened the process up enough that we could do that on the Xbox 360." Obviously, it's not saying anything about the balance between 360 and PS3, but it is saying that we can expect a visible improvement from here to the finished product on the PS3.

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