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Thread: Complete RPG List for the PS2 - Updated 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcks007 View Post
    I know alot of Working Designs ps1 games had alot of variants. I do not think that this will be the case for there ps2 games that where made. No other ps2 games have artwork random variants.

    Btw, the other 2 Working Designs games for the ps2, Silpheed: The Lost Planet and Gungriffon Blaze, both have a A and B game disc variant. Both games have different artwork on there cds, and different artwork on there cases. From the copys I've seen on ebay, both always match up.
    Thanks for the heads up! I didn't know that that Silpheed and Gungriffon Blaze have cover and disc label variants. I have the A label variant in both games, I wasn't even aware that there are cover variants as well.

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    Thanks a lot! I think it's pretty clear by now that the A-set disc labels are in the standard version, and the B-set disc labels are in the deluxe edition.

    I made a note in the listing. Obviously the sentence "the game in the deluxe set is identical with the standard version" was wrong since these are not only disc label variants but came separately with both editions.

    I uploaded pics of the disc label variants with their SLUS numbers (Pictures4) and also put pics up for the soundtrack CD folder, the soundtrack CD, and the manual. (Pictures3) With these pictures everything of Growlanser Generations is covered picture-wise.

    Just out of curiosity: Does Growlanser Heritage of War also have disc label variants? I guess not since WD didn't publish it.

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    I highly doubt that Generation Wars has a disc variant.

    Back in the PS1 days, Working Designs had friends at Sony, who let them do the disc art variants. As those friends retired, moved on ect, those perks of theirs (along with their ability to get games approved) went down the tubes, and thusly why we never saw some of the announced WD games on the PS2. They were lucky to even get Growlanser out considering the policies that had been enacted by SCEA against 2D gaming. Besides the fact that they took too long to get games done, other companies had sprung up snatching away licenses away, or the Japanese companies were just releasing titles here.

    WD was a special entity to even ponder making a label variant for games. The only other time you'll see label variants is due to a factory misprint, a new publisher taking over the title (happened with PS games, not so much PS2 games) or a GH re-release situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaStu View Post
    Back in the PS1 days, Working Designs had friends at Sony, who let them do the disc art variants. As those friends retired, moved on ect, those perks of theirs (along with their ability to get games approved) went down the tubes, and thusly why we never saw some of the announced WD games on the PS2. They were lucky to even get Growlanser out considering the policies that had been enacted by SCEA against 2D gaming. Besides the fact that they took too long to get games done, other companies had sprung up snatching away licenses away, or the Japanese companies were just releasing titles here.
    Where did you hear info like that?

    If the 2D gaming policy was true, how were Atlus able to release Odin Sphere and GrimGrimoire on the PS2?

    Quote Originally Posted by PapaStu View Post
    WD was a special entity to even ponder making a label variant for games. The only other time you'll see label variants is due to a factory misprint, a new publisher taking over the title (happened with PS games, not so much PS2 games) or a GH re-release situation.
    I believe that's was they're intention from the start. Looking at the packaging with Turbo games, you release they were something that wanted to stand out. In their case, they were the gamer's company and provided us with great games most companies ignorantly wouldn't bother with.

    I heard Victor Ireland started a new company but that's as far as I know. Any one know what projects he's working on now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Press_Start View Post
    Where did you hear info like that?

    If the 2D gaming policy was true, how were Atlus able to release Odin Sphere and GrimGrimoire on the PS2?
    I 'heard' info like that from some conversations i've had with a Sony employee that would be very in the know.
    The 2D policy is not something new, it was highly pushed by Sony in the middle of the PS and PS2 lifespans. Look at early PS games, we got stuff like Mega Man Legends and Street Fighter Ex+Alpha because Sony demanded 3D games from companies like Capcom, otherwise they'd not be allowed to publish the Megaman 8's, MegaMan X7's and Street Fighters Vs Capcom type titles.

    Working Designs games were shoved into limbo hell after the launch of the PS2 because they (WD) wanted to release games that didn't look like they were 'next-gen', and appearance is everything. You are in the market to tout power over This is a SCEA thing, not a SCEJ mentality. In Japan they'd release a ton of stuff that SCEA would never think of releasing here. Sony has since lightened up on this stance, because they've dropped licensing fees for the PS2 down to nothing, and thats allowing companies like Atlus and others who are still putting out 2.5D games like that to make back something before they burn a bazillion bucks on making a PS3 game, by letting them get licenses here to release them.

    I believe that's was they're intention from the start. Looking at the packaging with Turbo games, you release they were something that wanted to stand out. In their case, they were the gamer's company and provided us with great games most companies ignorantly wouldn't bother with.

    I heard Victor Ireland started a new company but that's as far as I know. Any one know what projects he's working on now?
    WD brought a level of collectability by making their manuals and disc arts as eye catching as they were, and their sales during the PS days were out of sight. They sold better than many primary publishers at the time.

    If Vic's got a new company started/formed/what have you, good for him... though unless he can get XBLA, Wiiware or PS3Store titles out, he's probably going to be in bad shape again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaStu View Post
    WD brought a level of collectability by making their manuals and disc arts as eye catching as they were, and their sales during the PS days were out of sight. They sold better than many primary publishers at the time.
    Really? How many did they sold during those days? Which site did you find info like that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Press_Start View Post
    Really? How many did they sold during those days? Which site did you find info like that?

    Vic has been pretty forthcoming with sales data in years past when you talk with him. Lunar SSSC sold a few hundred thousand copies if memory serves. Some info also used to be on the WD website before it was eaten by the internet gremlins.
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    I can confirm that there were approximately 300,000 copies of Lunar: SSSC sold. It was Vic's best selling game. Check my posts on page 8 of the top sticky thread in the Collector's Guide and Rarity Database forum.

    I also have a wrench to throw into the machinery about Growlanser Generations. I bought a copy from a Gamestop probably 14 or 15 months ago. It didn't have all the bells and whistles of the deluxe edition but when I asked about it, the clerk said that the person who traded it in had all that stuff but since Gamestop doesn't take it they gave them back to him and just took the game. My copy has discs 3 and 4. So either there isn't a hard and fast rule with how the discs are dispersed, the person who traded in the game somehow had a mixed up copy, or the clerk was just being an idiot. Based on what I've seen, it probably is true that the discs are specific to one version or the other but keep your eyes peeled for possible exceptions.
    Last edited by TonyTheTiger; 11-12-2008 at 02:48 PM.

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    I'm going to venture a guess that the clerk was just being an idiot...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger View Post
    I can confirm that there were approximately 300,000 copies of Lunar: SSSC sold. It was Vic's best selling game. Check my posts on page 8 of the top sticky thread in the Collector's Guide and Rarity Database forum.

    Based on what I've seen, it probably is true that the discs are specific to one version or the other but keep your eyes peeled for possible exceptions.
    You are right that we have to be careful to declare one disc set specific to one version. I'll keep my eyes peeled for sure. Strictly speaking, I should have waited until two people report they bought Growlanser Generations new as a stand alone game and the A disc set was in there.

    I checked ebay for GG. 90% offered as a stand alone have the A disc set. I'm still mistrustful, and we should be careful about this judgement call although in all likelihood we are right.

    I read your posts about Lunar SSCC. Very interesting. I wasn't even aware that there is a demo disc for the game.

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    PapaStu is absolutely correct about the difficulties to get GG released. WD had problems with SCEA. I remember the post of a former DP member and former WD employee (who wrote the guides for Lunar 2 and Vanguard Bandits) about a conversation he had with Victor Ireland.

    Ireland pointed out that Growlanser II didn't get the go because it is 'only' a 2D game, graphically not top-notch, and something additionally has to be included. WD had to add and translate Growlanser III and could Growlanser II publish only as a package. That caused of course a lot of problems for such a small developer. In the end WD, critically acclaimed, was almost a one-man show.

    But we shouldn't focus entirely on SCEA which has certainly partial responsibility to make life difficult for WD. It is the tale of an industry that experiences more and more a concentration process that leaves smaller developers/publishers in a very difficult economic situation. Development time and development costs increased dramatically in the last eight years, and so did localization of already existing games. Without finacial backup by publishers, a well carved out niche, and strict cost-efficiency within the firm smaller developers/publishers are relegated nowadays to the virtual stores of Nintendo, MS and Sony. At best they can develop for handheld games.

    Powerhouses like Konami and Capcom have much more leeway to develop and publish niche games, SCEA is certainly more lenient towards these companies.

    SCEA's actions have to be seen as a re-action to market developments. They wanted the next-gen, 3D-top-notch-image because it is an economic necessity. It sells, it is mainstream, it is survival in a very competitive market.

    In 2002/2003 2-D games did not sell well like they still moderately did in the transition phase from 2D to 3D (1995 to 2000) ... at least this was the case and so it was anticipated.

    Ironically, the success of the games WD stood for contributed to its downfall. Disgaea (August 2003) sold more than expected, and that prompted Atlus and NIS to publish themselves more of the quirky traditional Japanese RPGs once thought not suitable for the American market. By the time GG got published (December 2004) the niche for WD was no longer a safe place. WD faced not only competition in the form of games, but more so of developer/publishers which didn't go the route through a localization/publishing company for the American market. Again, market developments and not only SCEA are responsible for the unfortunate fate of WD.

    Images and competition, development costs and time, required big personal staff, financial backup, and subtle shifts in demand leave smaller developers/publishers in a very difficult situation.
    Last edited by lendelin; 11-12-2008 at 08:32 PM.

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    Isn't Eternal Poison officially out now? If so, it needs to be added to the list.

    Has anyone picked it up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    But we shouldn't focus entirely on SCEA which has certainly partial responsibility to make life difficult for WD. It is the tale of an industry that experiences more and more a concentration process that leaves smaller developers/publishers in a very difficult economic situation. Development time and development costs increased dramatically in the last eight years, and so did localization of already existing games. Without finacial backup by publishers, a well carved out niche, and strict cost-efficiency within the firm smaller developers/publishers are relegated nowadays to the virtual stores of Nintendo, MS and Sony. At best they can develop for handheld games.
    Something always been bothering me. If Sony was giving WD a hard time, why didn't Victor go to Nintendo? I'm sure there were a few Gameboy and Gamecube titles people would have loved to come to the states.

    Quote Originally Posted by esquire View Post
    Isn't Eternal Poison officially out now? If so, it needs to be added to the list.

    Has anyone picked it up?
    It did...oh shoot. It is still possible to get the bonus artbook from Gamestop?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Press_Start View Post
    Something always been bothering me. If Sony was giving WD a hard time, why didn't Victor go to Nintendo? I'm sure there were a few Gameboy and Gamecube titles people would have loved to come to the states.
    If there is one thing about Victor Ireland, he's stubborn. That probably wasn't a bad thing for the most part. If not for his stubbornness he wouldn't have had WD spend years rebuilding the lost data for Magic Knight Rayearth. But that stubbornness also drove him to push for games despite there being 0 chance Sony would cave.

    It happened with Sega. I'm pretty sure he was planning on localizing the Saturn versions of the Lunar remakes but his main contact (the guy who facilitated his relationship with Sega) went to Sony and Vic followed. But after you burn a bridge or two you find there aren't as many avenues to explore and I guess he didn't adapt well to the change. Though I don't think it's fair to lay the blame squarely on his shoulders. He was jerked around a bit and stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    Sony says "Sure, do Lunar, do Silpheed, do GunGriffon Blaze, do this, do that." Then all of a sudden "Growlanser? Screw you, Vic." All the while Disgaea manages to eke by. What was Victor supposed to do? Cancel the project and eat the loss or trudge through and try to make at least some kind of profit? What he should have probably done is accepted Growlanser as a hard lesson, adapted to the obvious changes, and not pushed so hard for that old Goemon game that Sony was never going to let him do. Not doing a collector's package of Growlanser might also have been a good idea. It would have been a much easier sale to the public if he marketed the game as "2 in 1 for standard price" and not chipped away at the company's finances by trying to sell an additional (and expensive) collector's edition with a watch and other trinkets. All in all, he should have moved to another platform if that was an option or adapted to the changing tides at Sony a little better than he did.
    Last edited by TonyTheTiger; 11-13-2008 at 11:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esquire View Post
    Isn't Eternal Poison officially out now? If so, it needs to be added to the list.

    Has anyone picked it up?
    Added. I waited to make sure if the release date is correct. Amazon and Gamestop has it in stock today, so I left the release date at 11/11.

    I pre-ordered it, but Amazon didn't ship it yet.

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    Updates:

    Ar tonelico 2 got delayed. The new release date is January 20, 2009. Amazon and GS have the new release date while Rosenqueen still has mid-December.

    SMT Persona 4 will get a a guide after all. Published by Doublejump, it will ship according to Doublejump on December 12. (Release date for the game: December 9) Price: $19.99

    Kingdom Hearts RE seems to have no own strategy guide, but I guess the old guide by Brady for the DS game will cover it. In a strict sense the game didn't receive a guide because platform and the title of the game are different.
    Last edited by lendelin; 11-13-2008 at 07:20 PM.

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    Do you guys know if the Arc the Lad Collection came into being because of the same pressures over Growlanser, or did Working Designs themselves choose to make it a package deal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    Updates:

    SMT Persona 4 will get a a guide after all. Published by Doublejump, it will ship according to Doublejump on December 12. (Release date for the game: December 9) Price: $19.99
    Will Rosenqueen do a special pre-order bonus for Persona 4 as they did with Ar Tolenico 2?

    Btw, everytime I tried to pay with Paypal, they forget to my apartment on the shipping address. Is anyone having this same problem?
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    I live in a apartment with a #number, your question didn't make sense. But I've never had a problem, in case you don't know, you should be adding your apartment number on the same line as your street address. Make sure to add # before your numbers.

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    O'wait, is that paypal screwing up or Rosenqueen? Paypal should have your addi saved, perhaps its loading a previous or wrong add, you might need to find out how to update or remove the other one.

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