the 360 HD-DVD drive thread

[Ed Oscuro]

It's my understanding that the Xbox 360 hardware will allow developers to use some spectacular compression that current gen systems are not capable of, thus a 6GB Xbox 360 game might be three times larger than a 6GB PS2 game.

Haha it's fun you say that since right now a lot of Xbox games are a thrid the size of they're PS2 counter-parts.

Probably the FMV movies on those PS2 games, which would've been run real-time on the Xbox Yeah, I learned about game sizes as well recently...I'd have to see some numbers for that else I'm callin' shenanigans.

They should have put HD-DVD support from the start.

::Golf clap::

MS should've gone big, or not gone at all.

Yeah, really. They should have included dual 7800 GTx 512 MB cards, 8 3.8 GHZ processers, 1 TB of HD space, 5 optical drives and the ability to wash your car! Who the hell cares if it costs $6,000? Go big or don't go at all, I say!

At this point even Microsoft agrees that they should've had HD-DVD in from the beginning. Don't feel the need to support a lost cause.

Personally, plain old DVD games such as Call of Duty 2 look fantastic. I'm just happy for the upgrade, and I'm not angry or judgemental towards Microsoft...they know this is going to be another headache for them as well as consumers, but decided to go with the decision anyway.

[PS2Hawk]

Running games or Movies from USB drive should show numerous hickups.

The 360's drive is loud as it is and not to mention I am waiting for my repair/replacement console... I am not to tempted by the addon. I would rather wait for PS3 that packs everything inside.

I would like the option of putting in ur own hard drive .. so I can decide wat ever I want and buying games online through xbox live marketplace.

Who says it would have to be USB? After all we do that that expansion slot that the HDD uses. From the start i always figured an HD HDVD would attach there.

you probably need drivers that will be downloaded from market place and secondly even if it sits on that, that is going to look UGLY considering its as wide as a normal dvd drive.

[njiska]

Hawk foolish is the man who bad mouths something he knows nothing about. Anything about it's look, interaction or funsctionality should wait until the unit is actually unveiled.

[PS2Hawk]

Hawk foolish is the man who bad mouths something he knows nothing about. Anything about it's look, interaction or funsctionality should wait until the unit is actually unveiled.

hmm I was just giving opinion... I don't know wat your prob is but anyways, be a dumbass and buy an HD-DVD which has less industry support.. and don't forget YOU HAVE TO BUY IT, where as you get a next gen dvd player on PS3 free.

[njiska]

The concept of End user cost doesn't mean anything to you does it?

Well, you're going to buy one, right? I dont think they would bother to release it if they thought nobody would buy it.

I understand the expense of it, and if they hadn't put it in, and hadn't announced this, they would've been better off.

Say they make Halo 3 one of these HD games, like I'm sure they will. I'm willing to bet atleast 30% of the people that bought a 360 wouldn't have done that if there was no promise of a new halo. So, that 30% just dropped 3 or 4 hundred on a system. Now, they have to go out and buy ANOTHER thing that could potentially cost that same amount to play the ONE GAME they realllly want to play. See what I'm getting at here?

They should've put it in to begin with, or never planned to use it all at. Plain and simple.

But we're not talking a $50 difference. We're talking about a lot more.

And no, i probably won't buy one until it's dirt cheap specifically because in order to get the best advantage in the next gen of Video i want a combo Blu-Ray/HD DVD player.

Everything we've been hearing out of the microsoft camp is that they want everything playable on the core system. HD games would create a 2-tier system and never in history has an add on required for gaming (aside from the N64 Expansion pack) been profitable.

I see what you're getting at, but it's based around HD DVD games and i honestly don't expect that to happen.

As for why they would release it the answer is simple they're pusshing HD DVD and if the Xbox can get an affordable alternative to the PS3's Blu Ray. But because it's optional, you're not forced to pay for it, so you can save money.

Again this is all conjecture and isn't worth a damn. All we've been given is the information that an extrenal drive is coming. Nothing more.

[sabre2922]

-Microsoft VP says external next-gen format drive will play video only and says no 360 with an internal HD-DVD drive is planned. - from Gamespot

This is bad news for Microsoft and the 360

More and more the 360 is looking like a rushed console much in the same way the Saturn turned out to be with Microsoft making many of the same mistakes that Sega did back in '95-98.

I laughed when I read so many quotes and statements from the video game industry about the 360 calling it the next Dreamcast and so on becuase I just didnt see it, but now Im starting to think that maybe those comments werent so far of the mark.

With Microsoft already announcing add-ons and backing the HD format when the Blue Ray format has much more powerful allies in both the videogame industry and even moreso in the Movie industry.

Even Nintendo and Sony (PS2 hardrive anyone) has learned that the whole add-on thing is a bad idea as far as home consoles go no matter how well planned it may seem to be.

I like the 360 and I think its a good system but Microsoft should not have rushed their next gen system to maket so quickly just to beat the PS3 by 6-9 months all the while sacrificing a truly next gen format compataible drive (HD-DVD in the 360s case wich Micorsoft is backing) and keeping the traditional DVD format therefore constricting the abilities of what is a very powerful machine.

Im starting to think of the Xbox360 as more of a Saturn 2 than the Dreamcast 2.

A couple examples:
-------------------------------------------------------
Dual Processors; difficult for designers and developers to truly tap the systems full potential therefore making a more diffficult work environment (i.e. development kit) than a single processor console-Saturn=Xbox360

Rushed to market to beat the competition to store shelves in under a year wich has never proven to be either a + or - in the overall outcome of any generation of home consoles-Saturn= Xbox360
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes there are other factors that give the 360 a big advantage when compared to Segas ill-fated 32-bit system the least of wich being Microsofts deep pockets and cold cash of billions in the bank , but honestly how much of a sacrifice can even a conglomerate like microsoft make just to be "king of the hill" in one market?

[Ed Oscuro]

Hawk foolish is the man who bad mouths something he knows nothing about. Anything about it's look, interaction or funsctionality should wait until the unit is actually unveiled.

hmm I was just giving opinion... I don't know wat your prob is but anyways, be a dumbass and buy an HD-DVD which has less industry support.. and don't forget YOU HAVE TO BUY IT, where as you get a next gen dvd player on PS3 free.

Unless you're rich, all of the major three next-gen systems should have more than enough games to keep all but the most dissipated millionaire gamers busy for a long time. I still haven't run through a fraction of the original Xbox action games I want to try out.

Making the point about how the HD-DVD which is pretty much required, and then saying "it has less industry support" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, though. You're saying 360 owners should want to stick with the default system, and get even less support in the future? Not to say I don't understand why you said these things, but when you lump them together like that it gets a bit ridiculous.

[Anthony1]

I don't understand what all this fuss is about. This external HD-DVD drive is not for games. It's only for movies. It's just to give 360 owners an option for a cheap avenue to High Def DVD watching. It will be cheaper to buy the 360 add on player, than a full fledged HD-DVD unit.


There really isn't anything big about this announcement.



If it was meant to play games, then that would be one thing, but it's not. The only games it might play would be the multi disk games on a single disk. That's it. Deliberately fragmenting your market is about the dumbest thing you can possibly do. There is no way that they would do that.

[PS2Hawk]

Hawk foolish is the man who bad mouths something he knows nothing about. Anything about it's look, interaction or funsctionality should wait until the unit is actually unveiled.

hmm I was just giving opinion... I don't know wat your prob is but anyways, be a dumbass and buy an HD-DVD which has less industry support.. and don't forget YOU HAVE TO BUY IT, where as you get a next gen dvd player on PS3 free.

Unless you're rich, all of the major three next-gen systems should have more than enough games to keep all but the most dissipated millionaire gamers busy for a long time. I still haven't run through a fraction of the original Xbox action games I want to try out.

Making the point about how the HD-DVD which is pretty much required, and then saying "it has less industry support" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, though. You're saying 360 owners should want to stick with the default system, and get even less support in the future? Not to say I don't understand why you said these things, but when you lump them together like that it gets a bit ridiculous.

well the point was, HD-DVD has less support as is, and you get BLU-RAY player with PS3 by default so wats the point to buy an add on for movies for 360..... get it ?
its your money though... spend it the way you want...

[Fighter17]

I post this at Armchair Arcade, and it's a long post:

Here's the problem with me and this HD-DVD, Blu-Ray bullcrap: The general pubic will not get the difference between both formats. My dad doesn't know crap about computers, and when he finds out about two new disc formats, he'll be confused. DVDs to him are good enough, but he doesn't own a HDTV to experience Hi-def. He's 65, and many people his age are not technology advance like us. The general consumer, like my father, will not get the difference between both formats. The general consumer is not us nerds (I have to say it), it's the regular working class. And if the general public is confused, it will confused everybody. Look, if I'm a regular person and some guy told me that HD-DVD is the future, I would buy an HD-DVD player. Now by mistake I purchase a Blu-Ray disc and try to play it on the HD-DVD player, it won't work. I will return it and I'll find out that it's a Blu-Ray disc and it doesn't work on an HD-DVD player. I'll be confuse as hell and I'll said that both are the same fucking thing, what's the difference? If this happens, it'll be confusing to many, many people.

I don't believe that the world needs a new disc format yet, look at the video market. People are still buying VHS tapes (like my father), and those people will never get an HDTV because "it doesn't do anything special for me." More and more people are buying DVDs, but they are not watching it on an HDTV. There're not many people that I know that watch their movies on an HDTV, mostly because they don't even own one yet! They are not enough people who own an HDTV, and I would wait about three-fire years until more people owns an HDTV. DVDs get the job done on an HDTV, so I don't see need for a new disc format. Also if you want to get the most of your HD-DVDs and Blu-Ray, if I remember correctly, do you need a special TV just for it?

All this HDTV talk brings up an other point: video cables. OK, I know 360 owners from school and on the net (like Bill), and most people play the 360 thru a composite cable. My friend just purchase the $399 360 package with the RGB cable and the composite cable. He goes to school with me and he told me this problem: He really wants to play the 360 thru the living room (HDTV in it), but the problem is that people are always in the living room so he can't. He rarely have the TV for himself, but it's a hassle to move the 360 back and forth from his room to the living room. Many kids of my age play games in our rooms which are very small, and the TVs we have supports composite or S-Video only. If we want to have a HDTV in our room, we must buy something that cost over $300 and put it in our room. Since kids our age always have too much stuff in our room, there's no room for the HDTV. All my friends play their systems thru RF AND composite only. I don't know not either one person who plays the game thru an RGB cable. So who can afford playing the system thru a HDTV and doesn't get bugged by people? Adults who have the money. People like Bill can afford playing the game thru an HDTV with an RGB cable and an 360 with the best graphics in the world. Still, many adults play thru an composite wire because they can't afford an HDTV. Now, how's this releates to HD-DVD and Blu-Ray? If both format movies want to push for the best image quality, they want us to watch it on an HDTV thru a RGB cable. Once again not many adults watch the movies or play games thru an RGB cable or even own a HDTV in general. If you watch an HD-DVD thru a composite wire, you are going to get the same image quality as a DVD thru composite, and it doesn't make an difference. S-Video has been out for over 20 years and it's still not popular as composite (and it's better than composite, keep that in mind). TVs today are still being made with an composite slot only (but that's changing, hopefully). To experience HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to its fullest, you must have an HDTV with an RGB cable, and that's it. DVDs are not doing enough to force people to buy an HDTV, the general consumer will call the Hi-def freature an bonus for those who own an HDTV, but most of them won't care buying an HDTV.

What I'm trying to say is that many adults are still playing games and watching movies thru an composite wire. To get Hi-def, you must use an RGB cable, which is still not popular as composite. RGB cables are so unpopluar, my friend owns an HDTV and an Gamecube, and he plays it on the HDTV thru a composite cable. It looks great to him, but I told him that you can improve the image quality greatly if you purchase an RGB cable for it. He didn't really care because as long it's not RF, he's fine.

My major points:

* HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will confuse the general public (a new VHS Vs. BetaMax)
* HD-DVD and Blu-Ray want to push Hi-def even furhter when the general pubic doesn't even own an HDTV yet
* Few people play their games or watch movies thru an RGB cable
* Composite cables are still the king

What I would have done:

* Wait for three-five years until HDTVs are more mainstream, and then I would introduce the new disc formats.
* Let the public know that RGB cables are better than composite
* Let the public know that HDTVs are better than regular TVs
* Stop the VHS sales (I wish)
* MAKE HDTVS SMALLER FOR A REGULAR SMALL ROOM!

My two cents.

[njiska]

This pretty well sums up the stance of MS and why they're doing it.

From Gamespot
"Right now it's focused purely on movie playback. Think of the drive as something that lets you play high-definition movies on the Xbox 360." The external drive will function as an alternative to purchasing a separate HD-DVD playback device: "If you want to watch HD-DVD movies and if you own an Xbox 360, there will be no reason for you to go out and buy another player."

Microsoft has considered the benefits of HD-DVD for games, but Moore is confident that the current Xbox 360 system and Xbox Live service are fine for next-gen gaming. "HD-DVD from the gameplay point of view is primarily about media storage as is of course Blu-ray," he said. "Our developers are very comfortable with the [Xbox 360's] storage options--I think they're utilizing Xbox Live very creatively, and the hard drive, we have a very strong attach rate for the hard drive."

[Ed Oscuro]

Wow, I totally missed the part where it was supposed to be for movies only... :/

well the point was, HD-DVD has less support as is,

Now that I understand what the HD-DVD is about...I don't know. Lots of companies would rather have gone with HD-DVD than Blu-Ray on the movie side.

Since it's not going to be for games, though...well...yikes.

But we'll see...maybe companies will put games on it anyway.

WTF, Microsoft.

[Anthony1]

For the above poster, Fighter17, I must say, have you ever heard of a VGA Monitor? A VGA Monitor is a small HDTV that is perfect for very small rooms. You can get a really nice one for $50 on craigslist. The Xbox 360 has a VGA cable that you can buy for it, and you will get a perfect image.



Also, instead of using RGB in that post above, you should substitute component, otherwise people will think you are talking about analog RGB which is used to get the absolute best video quality from the classic systems of the very late 80's and 90's.

[Fighter17]

For the above poster, Fighter17, I must say, have you ever heard of a VGA Monitor? A VGA Monitor is a small HDTV that is perfect for very small rooms. You can get a really nice one for $50 on craigslist. The Xbox 360 has a VGA cable that you can buy for it, and you will get a perfect image.



Also, instead of using RGB in that post above, you should substitute component, otherwise people will think you are talking about analog RGB which is used to get the absolute best video quality from the classic systems of the very late 80's and 90's.

I could had said component, but people still call it RGB for some reason. I forgot about the VGA cable, but the problem with that is that I play 2D games, and 2D games don't support VGA. Many 2D Dreamcast games don't support VGA, so that's the problem.

[graboid9]

So you guys that are saying that MS rushed the system out before it was ready because it dosent have built in HD-DVD? you do realize that when a new product is released (HD-DVD/BlueRay) they wil average about $1000...just like a cd player when it was released. just like a dvd player when it was released. Was MS supposed to sit on its new and completed hardware until HD-DVD was released? that dosent seem like a very smart business decision. Also think about this, do you think Sony can release brand new media (blueray) for $500? what is that going to do for all the other BlueRay player makers...undercuting them by half? Its not going to happen. You will pay for your BlueRay enabled PS3...alot. At least with the 360 you can choose weather you really need the new media.

[stressboy]

But we'll see...maybe companies will put games on it anyway.

I think MS would be stupid to allow this, so I don't see it happening.

[kainemaxwell]

* Stop the VHS sales (I wish)

They're stopping VHS production this month actually.

[Trebuken]

For the above poster, Fighter17, I must say, have you ever heard of a VGA Monitor? A VGA Monitor is a small HDTV that is perfect for very small rooms. You can get a really nice one for $50 on craigslist. The Xbox 360 has a VGA cable that you can buy for it, and you will get a perfect image.



Also, instead of using RGB in that post above, you should substitute component, otherwise people will think you are talking about analog RGB which is used to get the absolute best video quality from the classic systems of the very late 80's and 90's.

I could had said component, but people still call it RGB for some reason. I forgot about the VGA cable, but the problem with that is that I play 2D games, and 2D games don't support VGA. Many 2D Dreamcast games don't support VGA, so that's the problem.

HDMI is the future. I think component will fall off the map, and there will be HDMI for high-end and composite for low-end. S-Video seems to have little future as well. Manufactures do not want to continue to support too many connection types.

HD and Blue Ray will be introduced this year but will take at least a couple years to overtake DVD sales. Peopele will be upgrading over this period as the see the difference. The fact that Televsision will be going completely digital (2007?) will help to push the technology ahead since HDTV broadcasting will be scaled up soon, people will have to get additional equipment to view TV.

The electronics stores are phasing out regular TV's. I do not see manufactures producing many small HDTV's except LCD monitors at 17", must not be cost effective. Would love to have a HD handheld DVD player...

People do resist technology, it's expensive, and many people don't appreciate it the same. I'm still trying to get my sister to get a DVR. I tell her it's worth the $10 a month. She and her husband make more than I do...instead she just compains about missing all her episodes.

Anyone still watching VHS must be collecting Social Security, and I can appreciate that fact...

Later,
Trebuken

[Ed Oscuro]

But we'll see...maybe companies will put games on it anyway.

I think MS would be stupid to allow this, so I don't see it happening.

I think that we might end up finding they were stupid not to have HD-DVD games from the beginning. A few years from now it might make all the difference in the world...

[Trebuken]

But we'll see...maybe companies will put games on it anyway.

I think MS would be stupid to allow this, so I don't see it happening.

I think that we might end up finding they were stupid not to have HD-DVD games from the beginning. A few years from now it might make all the difference in the world...

I honestly believe that Microsoft expects to have a next generation of console out (after the 360), than Sony does. In a few years the PS3 will certainly take over the lead in performance as programmers learn the systems. Until then it'll be neck and neck. That's when a new Xbox will be released; when it can't compete with the PS3 any longer. Microsoft has also hinted at all sorts of expansion capabilities.

We'll see. In ten years these should both be retro systems anyways...

Played Fighnt Night 3 yet...?

Later,
Trebuken