Crazy, Crazy eBay Buyer

[Cyan]

So. This is probably the craziest thing I've had to deal with yet.

I operate a table at the local flea market on the weekends, which also allows me to offer local pickups for eBay items. This works out really well in most cases, as I get paid in cash and I waive *all* shipping fees for a local pickup. In fact, my terms for all local pickups are as follows:

I waive all shipping fees when allowing a local pickup, and use eBay's currency conversion values when determining the final Canadian sale price and round up to the nearest dollar.

I round up to the nearest dollar to make things nice and even for everyone so that I'm not finding pennies on an item that ended at $5.37 or whatever. Most sellers charge a "pickup fee", or a portion of the shipping fee, but I don't. I only round up.

So. A lady bids on a (loose, out of the box) Leapster educational handheld system and ends up bidding above the average closing price. In addition, she bids on a few Leapster games I had up for auction and ends up winning.

One of the auctions she won, in particular, is a blue Batman cartridge. Blue cartridges were manufactured for the older Leapster units, but still work on the newer "L-MAX" units (which take both grey and blue cartridges.) Because of this, I always put "L-MAX" in the item title, even if it's a game manufactured for the older system.

I just *knew* there was going to be a problem when she emailed me after the auction ended and demanded that I meet her for local pickup at a specific time and place. She also demanded that I round *down* to $145 (from $147.) Unfortunately, I don't do that and only allow pickup at the flea market. I figure the 15 hours I'm there over the weekend is more than a big enough window for someone to stop by and pick up their item. I explained this to her, and she sent her brother down to pick the item up. He paid in cash and wasn't a problem.

After coming home from the market on Saturday, I had this wonderful email waiting for me. It looks like she's a little choked that she paid too much, and even acknowledges it:

My brother went and picked up the Leapster L-MAX and I just discovered that the Batman cartridge is NOT for the L-MAX. It is designed for the original Leapster. It does work with the L-MAX but is not originally designed for it. So, it should not have been listed as a L-MAX cartridge.

Given that I've just discovered in looking over a list of past completed eBay auctions, that I've paid much more than is average for both the unit and the cartridges, you could have worked out a more mutually satisfactory pricing but declined to do so for items that were not even new.

In my view, you have conducted this transaction with only your convenience and expedience in mind. I saved you the trouble of having to package and ship the items. I saved you the Paypal fees by paying in cash. Still, you asked for more than even what the exchange rate on eBay indicated at the end of the auction last Saturday. The fact that you refused my offer of $145.00 CAD (a discount of only $1.40, much less than the $5.00 Paypal fees I saved you) as a token of mutual concession for a satisfying transaction only confirms this. In conclusion you were able to wring a great deal for yourself...only. Funny thing, my brother actually saved more money negotiating over a couple of flashlights that don't require batteries that cost $18.00 (originally $24.00) then I did with you. I actually paid you MORE than what eBay told me I owed you.

My brother thought I was scammed in a way. He gave me the heads up on the average closing price of my item on eBay and usually what kind of a deal the seller works out with a winner when the customer has won the auctions by such above average high bids. He knows because he has more than ten years of eBay experience. When I heard that it made my blood boil. Now I realize that I should have asked him to find the units on eBay for me. I thought I had done well, but only just realized that I had bid and paid too much.

I will be returning the Batman cartridge for a full refund next Saturday as I have a full day tomorrow and this afternoon. As I paid in cash in total more than even what was indicated by the eBay exchange rate for my winnings on the day of the end of the auctions, although only by sixty cents, I expect a full refund to the very last penny plus the price of admission to flea market. Just consider yourself lucky I'm not charging you for the wasted time, energy, and fuel of having to return the Batman cartridge. If you'd like to save on the cost of the price of admission, provide me with a number I can contact you at and you can meet me or my brother at the entrance when I return the cartridge for a full refund.

At this point, as you may be well aware, I am not a happy customer. In truth, with the items on sale at various discount stores, I've just realized that I didn't save much money at all. Trying to save some money, I only ended up paying more than I should have to someone who really has no idea or interest in customer satisfaction.

Needless to say no positive feedback will be forthcoming for this transaction.

Wow. I've never received an email from such an angry person, ever. She's making unreasonable demands based on a baseless argument. Mostly, it seems she's just upset that she realized she paid too much.

Since when did eBay sellers ever let a bidder pay less than the final auction amount? I'm not the one who clicked the "confirm bid" button for her. Allowing buyers to pay less than the stated amount (unless the item is damaged, not as stated, etc) would completely undermine the entire auction process. Since she's written off the posibility of receiving positive feedback, there's no point in even trying to appease her. There's not a single action I could do which would reform her into a "good customer." So, I go into "no-bullshit" mode and respond with this:

Rosie;

Thank you for your email. Please feel free to leave negative feedback. I will do so in kind. No refund will be forthcoming, as the auction details clearly stated everything you needed to know about the auction. In particular, the picture for the Batman cartridge clearly showed the blue cartridge. The "L-MAX" designation in the auction title was simply to inform people that the cartridge would work in the L-MAX unit. Thank you for your business, and it's unfortunate that things ended up this way. Once again, I must remind you that no refund of any type will be forthcoming.

Sincerely;
Randy E. Sommerfeld.

That just makes Rosie even more upset. She even plays the "race card." I can't believe it:

Are you saying that your advertising was accurate? I think I'll take this up with eBay and see what they have to say. The fact, that you are not even willing to admit your mistake in describing the product says volumes about how you conduct your business. I have yet to leave negative feedback on any transaction, maybe I'll change that. I didn't ask for a refund on everything, only on the Batman cartridge that was NOT described accurately. If you refuse that, then you are not only being irresponsible, you shouldn't be allowed to sell on eBay. Let me know how you decide.

I'm not adverse to taking this up with eBay if I have too. My brother has offered to help me take this up with Vancouver Flea Market as well and complain on my behalf about your very unprofessional behavior should you not change your mind.

Just in case you are thinking of me as a little asian push over, I want to make it very clear that I will in fact push back when I think I'm being walked all over. I'm tenacious and if you won't take responsibility for your mistake then I think I'll need to make it clear that you will be held responsible.

I haven't been so pissed off in a LONG time. Your inconsiderate, off handed, and nonchalant attitude has changed that.

Once again, my final no-bullshit response:

Rosie;

You may contact whomever you wish about this issue. The bottom line is that by bidding on these auctions, you entered into a legally binding contract to pay for goods. The goods were clearly listed and described in the auctions in question. If you feel the need, please file a claim against me in court and we'll see what a judge has to say on the matter. Once again, I'm sorry that you feel the way you do about how the transaction ended up. This will be your final direct communication from me.

Sincerely;
Randy E. Sommerfeld

So there you have it folks. She (surprisingly) didn't respond to my final email and so far hasn't done anything. This is a classic example where it's best to be minimalistic, and stick to facts. Anything else would've probably enraged her further (although, I don't know how, she seems to be a rather angry person in general.)

Her username is 'primose2002', and the auctions in question are 6042993239 (the system itself), 6044309364 (the blue cartridge), 6044309170, 6044308903, and 6044308231. It's going to hurt receiving all those negatives, but what's one to do? Buyers like this make selling on eBay a real drag.

Alas. On to the next sale.

EDIT: After a correction from a fellow eBay seller, it looks like I was mistaken in regards to the retail price of the unit. The retail price is $100.00 Canadian (the bidder paid $63.00) on the unit itself, and $30.00 Canadian on each cartridge (the bidder paid an average of $15.00) This further mystifies why she's so upset.

-RS.

[Darth Sensei]

I love how she starts out telling you what you're going to do.

I just hope they don't come to that flea and disrupt your business by telling customers that you're dishonest.

[chaoticjelly]

What a b!tch!

You were completely in the right my friend, I dont know how someone could spew forth such crap..

As for going to the flea you have a stall at and complaining, surely they should have nothing to do with this, you conducted the trade OFF site i.e. on eBay, and everything was as pictured and described..

Some people just love spoiling for a fight

[FantasiaWHT]

Wow what a crazy lady! Amazing what people will do when they realize THEY made a mistake.

Although I do have to agree with her that putting L-Max in the title is misleading :P It bugs me when auctioners put "GBA" in the title of a GBC or GB game. As long as you are clear in the description about what system it was originally built for I guess it's not really dishonest, but still misleading, especially when you're searching through auction titles to find something.

[jajaja]

lol its so bullshit when she try to make it like she saved you money with the non shipping/paypal fees. Its up to her if she wants to pick it up or not.

But i can understand her situation. I checked the auction for the blue Batman cart and you did list it as L-MAX. I have no knowledge about this system, but if it isnt a L-MAX cart i wouldnt list it as one even if it works on the system. Its like listing a GBC game as a GBA game because GBC games also works on GBA. I would just refund the 15.50 for the Batman game and finish the case.

[Griking]

I probably would have allowed her to return the game if she was polite about it but once she became a bich about it I probably would have responded the same way as you did. Pay for her ticket for the flea market? Fuck her.

[kevin_psx]

6042993239 (the system itself), 6044309364 (the blue cartridge), 6044309170, 6044308903, and 6044308231. It's going to hurt receiving all those negatives, but what's one to do?

Only counts as 1. "Dear Buyer: Sorry we could not reach a good solution. Let's compromise. You will NOT leave feedback for me and I will not leave feedback for you. That way neither of us gets negged or ebay reputation damaged."



Don't see anything wrong with listing it as Leapster L-MAX. I list old Playstation games as "PS1 PS2" since they work for both systems & the picture clearly shows it's a PS1 game.


HOW did you get $147 total?
$15.50 + $5.00 batman
$53.00 + $7.50 system
$18.50 + $5.00 spiderman
$18.50 + $5.00 spongebob
$21.08 + $5.00 madagascar
========================
126.08 + $27.50

According to your Stated Policy shouldn't it be $127?




My response to her would be: "Dear Buyer: Instead of paying $126.08 + $27.50 = $153.58, you were only charged $127. You should be HAPPY you saved so much money. Why complain?"

[yok-dfa]

I list old Playstation games as "PS1 PS2" since they work for both systems & the picture clearly shows it's a PS1 game.

You do know that a number of PS1 games do not work on the PS2 right?

[jajaja]

Don't see anything wrong with listing it as Leapster L-MAX. I list old Playstation games as "PS1 PS2" since they work for both systems & the picture clearly shows it's a PS1 game.

If you clearly list that the game originaly is a PS1 or PS2 game it shouldnt be a problem of course. But the way the Batman auction is listed it says that its a L-MAX game, which it isnt.

[kevin_psx]

Yes I'm aware of the PS1 games that don't work in a PS2. All 2 of them, but I'm not selling those. I only sell PS1 games that I verified work on the PS2 (mine).

"But the way the Batman auction is listed it says that its a L-MAX game, which it isnt."

The picture shows it's a Leapster cartridge. The text says "Leapster". How much clearer can it get? -----> Think this falls under Paypal's "If the Buyer or Seller could reasonably misinterpret the description, the item does not qualify as a 'item signifigantly not as described' Dispute."



CYAN: May I offer suggestions on how to be FRIENDLY to an asshole buyer & try to CALM the situation? (rather than escalate)

Payment is via Paypal only, or CASH for local pickup in Vancouver, BC.

I just *knew* there was going to be a problem when she emailed me after the auction ended and demanded that I meet her for local pickup at a specific time and place.

(1) Add the phrase [local pickup at my flee market stand] to your auction. I don't fault the Buyer for asking for a specific time & place since YOU opened up that possibility with your stated policy.

She also demanded that I round *down* to $125 (from $127.)

"Dear Buyer the auction clearly states 'round up'. You agreed to these terms when you bid. Also I waived the ~$27 dollar shipping fee to help you save money. :-) "

Given that I've just discovered in looking over a list of past completed eBay auctions, that I've paid much more than is average for both the unit and the cartridges, you could have worked out a more mutually satisfactory pricing

"Dear Buyer: Thanks for contacting me. I'm sorry to hear you bid higher than you intended, however per ebay rules [provide link] you are responsible for the price that you bid. Even if you later feel you bid too high."

In my view, you have conducted this transaction with only your convenience and expedience in mind. I saved you the trouble of having to package and ship the items.

"Actually. It's more convenient for me to sit at home in my casual clothes & ship the items through the post. It's easier. And the fees are covered by my Handling Fee.

"By not charging the usual shipping & handling fee I >lost< $9.00-10.00 in listing fees (ebay charges to seller). But I was willing to lose 9 or 10 dollars to provide Good Customer Service. Thanks for contacting me. :-)"

I will be returning the Batman cartridge for a full refund next Saturday

"I will not accept a return. I apologize but you already verified it worked in your LMAX unit. The item was 'as advertised' and I make no warranty beyond that.

"I'm sorry you are so disappointed with your transaction but these circumstances do not warrant a refund. I will not leave any feedback for you-- if you agree not to leave feedback for me. We will push this transaction into the past.

"Again I'm sorry you are not happier about your purchase."

[jajaja]

The picture shows it's a Leapster cartridge. The text says "Leapster". How much clearer can it get?

Much clearer actually. You cant take for granted that every single user on Ebay know if its a L-MAX game or not just by looking at a picture. Personaly I wouldnt know if it was a L-MAX game or not just by looking at the picture.
He could have avoided this by simply added 1 line in the auction "This is not a L-MAX game, but it works on a L-MAX system" or something simular. Again, I would just refund the money and learn from my mistake.

[kevin_psx]

-----> Think this falls under Paypal's "If the Buyer or Seller could reasonably misinterpret the description, the item does not qualify as a 'item signifigantly not as described' Dispute."



What's the diff between a Leapster and a LMAX cart? Just improved graphics? (Curious) [EDIT - Did some research. There's no difference between the carts. Just a name change. The LMAX carts will work on the older Leapster system -and- vice versa.]

[Like the difference between Atari Breakout and Sears Tele-games Breakout. Nothing. Sounds to me the buyer is whining about a non-existent problem.]

[jajaja]

-----> Think this falls under Paypal's "If the Buyer or Seller could reasonably misinterpret the description, the item does not qualify as a 'item signifigantly not as described' Dispute."

Maybe, but it wasnt pay with Paypal so they cant refund anything in this case.

[yok-dfa]

Yes I'm aware of the PS1 games that don't work in a PS2. All 2 of them, but I'm not selling those.

The list is a little bigger than 2. I'll try to find a link for you, but last time i saw it, it had about 50-60 titles on it...

/me finds it annoying when people put PS2 in the title for PS1 games. When i search for PS2 games all of those ps1 games in which i have no interest also show up...

[Cyan]

Thanks to everyone for your responses :) Just to address a few things in particular:

As for going to the flea you have a stall at and complaining, surely they should have nothing to do with this, you conducted the trade OFF site i.e. on eBay, and everything was as pictured and described..

I've got very good rapport with the flea market management and have been a permanent vendor there for over two years, now. The nature of my business is such that I bring in people to the market that otherwise wouldn't think of stepping in the door. Either way, I gave management a "heads up" about this incident and had a good chuckle with them. That way they're not surprised if or when Rosie decides to complain to them.

Although I do have to agree with her that putting L-Max in the title is misleading

It's a common tactic that many eBay sellers will use. For example, a Mario 64 (N64) cart with just "Mario 64 - Ninendo 64 - N64" as the title will sell for a lot less than "Mario 64 - Nintendo 64 - N64 - World" Even though 'world' is nowhere in the Mario 64 title.

Even retail stores use this tactic quite frequently when trying to dump old stock on consumers. As far as I see it, so long as the game works on the system as advertised, it's good to go. Sales is all about doing silly little tricks like this to make better profits. It's been this way since there were ancient markets in Babylon and Rome.

With that being said, had Rosie asked *politely* for a refund, I would've been more than accommodating. Instead, she decided to "tell me how it is" and how I "must" give her refunds for all of these miscelaneous expenses. Then, she tells me that there won't be any positive feedback forthcoming. Well. If there's no positive feedback coming, and she won't be a reformed happy customer, then there's no point in appeasement.

People like this are simply *used* to dealing with big corporations where the more you yell, the better customer service you get. It doesn't work that way with me. I'm just a single person. One! You'll get much further being polite with me than flying off the handle.

HOW did you get $147 total?

Don't forget that all of my auctions are in US dollars, but I live in Canada. Bidders picking up their items locally will be paying in Canadian Dollars, so I need to do the exchange for them. $126.08 USD = $147.00 CAD rounded up to the nearest dollar. I use the eBay exchange values so that there's no arguments about which site was used (i.e. if a particular site favours a more inflated exchange.)

May I offer suggestions on how to be FRIENDLY to an asshole buyer & try to CALM the situation? (rather than escalate)

You can, but most of it is old hat to me. Before I left the world of full-time employment, I worked many years in the customer service industry (including a good year working as a bill collector.) When collecting debts, all you deal with all day long is irate people, so you get pretty good at figuring out how to dance with people like this.

The reason why I keep my auctions simple is just that: it's simple. Buyers get turned off when they click an auction and need to read a whole six pages of "terms of service" before bidding on an auction. I deal in items priced low ($9.99 to $50.00 at the most) and in items which are in great abundance on eBay. If the bidder clicks on my auction, and sees a whole page of terms and conditions, they'll just buy the same item at the same price from a seller with a "cleaner" looking auction.

In the case of a dispute, the worst case scenario is a refund of the full amount (not much in the first place) and move on. In the past year or two I've been selling on eBay, I've only had two or three "problem" customers, including this one. So, I'd say that my auctions are "clear enough" for the vast majority of customers.

With that being said, I figure that I'll probably add a few things in just for clarity. I'll likely mention that local pickup is only available during set hours. I'll probably put in my local pickup policy (of rounding up) into the auction terms so that there's no confusion.

But, I digress. This is about the customer.

The problem with a customer like this is that she's just so angry that there is *nothing you can do* to appease her. Even if I met all her demands by refunding the Batman cartridge, refunding the $0.60 difference when rounding up the exchange, and refunding her $0.75 flea market entry fee, she still *will not be happy.* She's so upset that she's seeing imaginary problems (using the race card, for example) and will continue to do so.

If I caved even once to her demands, then that opens up a whole new world of problems down the road. If the unit fails in two months, you can gurantee that I'd hear about it. If her kid gets bored with the games, she'll expect another refund or exchange. The *only* way to deal with these people is to firmly tell them "NO." Otherwise, they'll feel like they've got you on a leash.

This is a "people problem" as opposed to an "auction problem" really. Rosie has a very, very angry personality. She's the one who *yells* at McDonald's employees because they put salt on her fries when she asked for none, you know?

Sure, I could sit there and bow repeatedly and utter a thousand apologies. But there's no point. She's not even listening. People like this are masters at dragging heated dialogue on for hours or days on end to get what they want. A quick, no-bullshit response was the best way to handle the problem and set her straight.

Did some research. There's no difference between the carts. Just a name change. The LMAX carts will work on the older Leapster system -and- vice versa.

Now this I didn't know. I just sell this stuff, I don't play it ;)

Maybe, but it wasnt pay with Paypal so they cant refund anything in this case.

And thank god for that. If the item were paid via PayPal, I'd be looking at the receiving end of one of the famous PayPal disputes. Then, if PayPal sided with the bidder, I'd be out the money *and* the merchandise.

Some people think I should stop doing local pickups just because of having to deal with the headache of dealing with these people in person. I say I love local pickups, if only so I don't have to deal with PayPal ;) With that being said, I don't really care if people use PayPal or not (I have regular customers who pay for their item on PayPal and then come pick it up locally, just since it's more convenient and there's a record of the transaction), but Rosie thought I was making a fortune by not using PayPal.

Heh.

Thanks again to everyone for their responses.

-RS

[kevin_psx]

Yes I'm aware of the PS1 games that don't work in a PS2. All 2 of them, but I'm not selling those.

The list is a little bigger than 2....

Sony.com has a list of about 30 games, but they all WORK with minor/trivial glitches. Like Final Fantasy Anthology has a save screen that, 1 time out of 1000, looks like japanese. And FF7 is on the list because it does not work with "fast load". No big deal. I can still play & save these games on my PS2 & I don't consider these trivial glitches "non-working" since I played all the way from Start to Finish.

There are only 1 or 2 playstation 1 games that absolutely positively will not work on a PS2--- & I don't sell games I have not already tried on my PS2 & verified are playable.

May I offer suggestions on how to be FRIENDLY to an asshole buyer & try to CALM the situation? (rather than escalate)

You can, but most of it is old hat to me. .... She's so upset that she's seeing imaginary problems (using the race card, for example) and will continue to do so. If I caved even once to her demands, then that opens up a whole new world of problems down the road.

Agreed. My point was not cave in to her demands. I would not. My point was to act "friendly". Imagine you were working in a Retail Store & the customer is yelling at you. Would you yell back? Of course not. You'd say "no" but do it calmly & politely.

Not ignite a fight. But defuse it with calm replies.


I have had so many customers yelling at me (when i worked retail). They'd say it was my fault they didn't pay their credit bill --or call me prejudiced (one did)-- and yell & curse about how terrible the service is. -----> I'd just stand there & listen until they calmed down. It might take time but eventually all these blowhards "run out of steam" & get quiet.

Then, if PayPal sided with the bidder, I'd be out the money *and* the merchandise.

No. The bidder has to return the item (with tracking) before a refund happens. If the buyer keeps the Cart she would never get the refund.


Not charging a handling fee to Rosie cost you about $10.00 in ebay fees (no handling charged). Does that bother you? Guess not.

But I would tell her that. Make her realize that YOU lost some money too. That "local pickup" earns you less profit than postal shipping.

[Bratwurst]

Great story Cyan, you have succinctly conveyed the point at which the seller must draw a line. Customer service is ultimately the lifeblood to repeat business but I work in an industry where potentially troublesome clients can be foreseen and avoided altogether. It's unfortunate that you don't have that option due to the nature of Ebay. Trying to make these individuals happy is a counterproductive endeavor, though occassionally one manages to slip in under the radar and I have to deal with it.

I appreciate your deft adaptation into no-bullshit mode, if only more sellers were like that online.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Wow what a crazy lady! Amazing what people will do when they realize THEY made a mistake.

Although I do have to agree with her that putting L-Max in the title is misleading :P It bugs me when auctioners put "GBA" in the title of a GBC or GB game. As long as you are clear in the description about what system it was originally built for I guess it's not really dishonest, but still misleading, especially when you're searching through auction titles to find something.

On that note, some sellers don't mention that GB/GBC games don't work on the GBA Micro, and I'm sure that's led to more than a few negatives all around. :P

[kevin_psx]

The other day I bought a TV from Sears. The seller never told me, "There's no remote, and you can't use the Video hookups without one."

Should I fault the sears seller?
Or my own stupidity not to check the remote?

I point the finger at the buyer (me). Buyers shouldn't expect sellers to remember everything. I'm sure the guy at Sears was not deliberately misleading me. He just didn't realize.

[almostgotthemall]

Nice to see you stick to your guns. And in a professional manner, as well.

Every so often I get a 'difficult' buyer, who must be treated with 'kid gloves'. Some can be more demanding than others, for sure.

Which flea-market do you work out of? I may drop by this spring and say hi.