Neo Geo - What generation do ya think?

[Ed Oscuro]

I think the classification game is stupid, but of course it's interesting from a standpoint of understanding the marketing opportunities (or pitfalls).

The PC-Engine came out in the last quarter of '87, in Japan. There it was doing very well as a game system with ultimate graphics that rivaled many arcade games of the time.

Both video processors (a Video Color Encoder and a Video Display Controller) were 16-bit. Just like the SNES, the system's main strength was its custom video hardware, but its failing seems to have been the main CPU's speed.

One thing of note is that both systems have a processor descended from the 6502 (of the Nintendo Entertainment System/Famicom), the Western Design Center 65C02 of the PC-Engine/TG-16, while the SNES has a custom (slightly improved) version of the WDC 65c816. The PC-Engine's chip ran at over 7 MHz, while the SNES's CPU can theoretically run up to 3.58 MHz, but in practice the CPU is pretty much restricted to running at 2.68 or even 1.79 MHz. Regardless, Wikipedia's Apple //gs page contends that the chip which eventually became the SNES chip was faster than the one that would become the PC-Engine's. It's not certain how system bus constraints end up hurting the SNES processor in comparison to the PC-Engine's, however.

[MagicMajenta]

[quote="Anthony1"]The Neo-Geo is a 16 bit system on horse roids. quote]

Wow, That seriously is one of the best ways to describe the Neo. I couldn't have said it better. I am really into the system as I have 2 AES Systems and 3 MVS boards for the thing. It really gets a lot of play time from me compared to my other systems even the current gen ones. That really says a lot about how well that system aged.

[lordnikon]

Please forgive this if it is ignorance on my part but the DC games currently coming out are small home brew titles, not big name titles that are really drawing much attention. The later Neo titles, although small are really good (No, I’m not going to include SNK-vs-Capcom, it sucks).

Samurai Shodown V Special- 2004
All of the KoF titles
Blazing Star- 1998
Metal Slug X- 1999
Metal Slug 3- 2000
Metal Slug 4- 2002
Metal Slug 5- 2003/4?
Bust a Move Again- 1999
Garou MotW- 1999
Real Bout Fatal Fury 2- 1998
Sengoku 3- 2001
Last Blade 2- 1998

These are a few of the REALLY good titles to see production after 1996. Like I said, these are games that were supported by SNK. Sega has not supported the DC since 2001/02 at the latest. Again, I’m not trying to bash the DC. I really like the little guy, he’s kind of the misfit of the last generation of systems. It was far better than the Xbox and PS2 in my opinion but lack of support killed it. I just think that for the most part the DC was a failure where as the Neo was like Ferrari, sure, they don’t see the production run that Ford sees but they’re hardly a failure. The Neo was expensive, it was never going to sell well ad SNK knew that. What it did do was sell at a slow steady pace for many years.

I just can’t compare the DC to the Neo though. For some reason the Neo is in a class all by itself.

The Dreamcast games coming out are not home brew titles. They are officially liscensed products, endorsed and supported by Sega, and are pressed on GD-ROMs and packaged just like any other release. They are official releases. Here is a list of new releases to come out from 2003-2006:

---

06/19/03 - King of Fighters 2002
09/25/03 - Border Down *

02/24/04 - Puyo Puyo Fever
02/26/04 - Psyvariar 2: The Will to Fabricate
03/25/04 - Shikigami no Shiro II *
10/28/04 - Baldr Force EXE *
11/11/04 - King of Fighters 2002 (DreKore)
12/16/04 - Chaos Field

02/04/05 - Puyo Puyo Fever (DreKore)
04/07/05 - Trizeal

02/16/06 - Radirgy
03/23/06 - Under Defeat *

* = the game saw both a normal release, as well as a "Limited Edition" release, that was bundled with the official soundtrack.

DreKore = Repressed release, a la Greatest Hits / Players Choice

---

80% of the titles above were released not only on the Dreamcast, but were subsequently brought onto other current gen platforms such as the Playstation 2, GameCube, and XBox. 40% of the titles above were release on the Playstation 2 and GameCube in North America & PAL Territories. The games above are developed by solidified industry development houses, who are not making "home brew" games. Most are veterans that have been around for a while, and a few are new arcade development companies: Success, Alfa System, Eolith, GRev, MileStone, Triangle Service, SONIC TEAM.

Eolith developed King of Fighters 2002 (as well as 2001) for SNK.

GRev is comprised of former Taito employees.

MileStone is comprised of former Compile employees.

Before creating Triangle Service, the developer of Trizeal worked previously on another shooter which was released on the Playstation 2 titled "X-II Stag".

SONIC TEAM - Yuji Naka the creator of Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic Team took over the development process of the Puyo Puyo games from Compile, and developed the new NAOMI originated puzzle game, Puyo Puyo Fever. The game was released multi-platform, but more shockingly Sega and Sonic Team decided to bring the title to the Dreamcast in 2004, which sold so well that they subsequently released a second pressing in Febuary of 2005. The game was a total fan service to Dreamcast owners. Sega included an Easter Egg which allowed you to alter the BIOS to swap out a wallpaper graphic for the main menu. Also, in the options menu for Puyo Puyo Fever, you can adjust the language to a variety of languages including full english for everything.

GRev's Border Down is now being hailed as a shmup classic, and because of its single pressing, is now rather rare and is fetching high prices. The game is also a cousin of the Darius franchise. Not many people know this, but the opening boss battle in Border Down is pretty much identical to the opening boss in Darius Gaiden. Also the graphical style of the game is similar to the sharp angled fish designs from Darius. GRev also coded the game engines for the Treasure developed titles Ikaruga and Gradius V.

GRev's recently released Under Defeat is the number one talked about shooter on sites across the net. Even check out Neo-Geo.com's shooter forum and you will see multiple threads on this game. Under Defeat sold over 10,000 copies in its first week of release, and was #1 on Sega Direct's online store. They are now pressing up more of the Normal release to meet the demand of consumers.

--

Like I said before, the Dreamcast will go down in history as one of the most misunderstood game systems ever, and will be plagued with stereotypes for years to come. The problem is, many people do not look at the facts. They never took the time to actually look at what the Dreamcast is capable of, or its vast library of games. People seem content to stick to a stereotypical viewpoint of the Dreamcast in the marketplace, and what games it had released. They usually make up some vision of the DC in their head based on perception, which usually falls along the lines of "That failed system that can play Crazy Taxi and Soul Calibur" or "That system that gets some homebrew games these days".

With the information above it is hard to ignore the fact that the Dreamcast's fate post mordem is just like that of the NeoGeo, where it is seeing quality officially liscensed arcade ports from its native NAOMI arcade hardware.

[drwily008]

This thread is the start of a new idea for a game:

SNK Vs. Sega

Round 1 FIGHT!!!

[Ed Oscuro]

This thread is the start of a new idea for a game:

SNK Vs. Sega

Round 1 FIGHT!!!

The Sega characters would confuse the SNK fighters by throwing them on a bridge and making them listen to Yuzo Koshiro music. Well, I would be confused, anyway.

[tanda]

I'm a big Neo fan, and have a 1 slot cab and a bunch of mvs carts and kits plus an AES and a few home cart games.

The Neo is firmly in place as a 16 bit console; it was the beast of the bunch. The 24 bit stuff was just marketing to justify it's very high cost. Great system.

[idrougge]

I think the classification game is stupid, but of course it's interesting from a standpoint of understanding the marketing opportunities (or pitfalls).

Same here. Especially since it uses nonsense descriptors like "so-and-so-many bits".

One thing of note is that both systems have a processor descended from the 6502 (of the Nintendo Entertainment System/Famicom), the Western Design Center 65C02 of the PC-Engine/TG-16, while the SNES has a custom (slightly improved) version of the WDC 65c816.

What you should be looking at is the Hu6280. Granted, the core of the 6820 was a 65C02, but it was severely revised, both in clock speed and especially when it comes to addressing. The Hu6280 can address 2 MB, which is 30 times as much as a 65C02.

Classifying a CPU as having a set number of "bits" is difficult in itself, and it means very little when put into a game console. You could talk about the bits in the address bus, in the registers, in the ALU, in the data bus or anything else. The 65816 of the SNES is a CPU with a 16-bit data bus and 24-bit addressing and 16-bit registers. The 68000 of the Megadrive and Neogeo is a CPU with a 16-bit data bus, 24-bit addressing and 32-bit registers. It is not surprising that SNK called it a 24-bit machine, since the CPU was usually called a 16/32-bit machine. The average would be 24, and that is much easier to convey to the console-buying crowd who are impressed by high numbers of bits in their consoles. From a programming point of view, the Megadrive and NG are 32-bit machines. To the programmer, it is also a much more modern CPU than the 65c816 of the SNES, which is like the 6502 of the NES, only upgraded to 16 bits. At this point in time, the circumstances which influenced the design of the 6502 were a moot point, whereas the 68000 was designed from scratch, for a time when memory was measured in megabits, not kilobits.
Calling the SNES a 16-bit machine is easy, whereas putting the Neogeo in a box is much more difficult, since it may be anything from 16 to 32 bits, and is.

[Ed Oscuro]

What you should be looking at is the Hu6280. Granted, the core of the 6820 was a 65C02, but it was severely revised, both in clock speed and especially when it comes to addressing. The Hu6280 can address 2 MB, which is 30 times as much as a 65C02.

Ahh. I'd read that the 6280 had been revised, but didn't see any concrete information on the changes. That's pretty helpful to know. Have you any links handy to more information on that CPU? I'd like that. Thanks for the information!

[alec]

Neo Geo is 24 bit. I have 2 of them, a home cart which is for sale at the moment, and an MVS 4slot cabinet. Its the only system I have more than one of.

[Ed Oscuro]

Neo Geo is 24 bit.

welcome to the discussion

[Nez]

16 bit no question. It came out at that time and had the majority of realeased games at that time.

[XianXi]

If the NGCD was DVD based instead of CD then it could have started a revolution. But back then I dont think DVD drives really existed.

IF.

[Ed Oscuro]

If the NGCD was DVD based instead of CD then it could have started a revolution. But back then I dont think DVD drives really existed.

IF.

Think '97 for DVD, dude.

[XianXi]

If the NGCD was DVD based instead of CD then it could have started a revolution. But back then I dont think DVD drives really existed.

IF.

Think '97 for DVD, dude.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that. If you are saying they existed in 97, I know they did. But the manufacturing costs for a DVD based system at the time would have been EXTREMELY expensive, even more than the AES since DVD drives werent even close to being streamlined yet as consumer demand was nil.

The NGCD came out before DVD technology was, I believe the NGCD came out in 93 or 94 and the CDZ in 96 I think.

[ReaXan]

did the Neo Geo sell well in Japan?

[retroman]

i think it should be left in the 16 bit era....but the upper class of it....

[Tron 2.0]

Neo-Geo=16bit area.

Nuff said.

[keiblerfan69]

Hey you guys should check out this video feature Greg Kasavin did over at gamespot a few years ago:

http://www.gamespot.com/gamespot/fea...otting/040603/

Just click on the top one "The Future Is Now".

Side note: I should clarrify that I personally see no difference between 2D or 3D in terms of quality. I feel that they are merely different mediums, and neither makes the other inferior.

That was my first time seeing a Neo-Geo.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

The Neo-Geo is a 16 bit system on horse roids.

Wow, That seriously is one of the best ways to describe the Neo. I couldn't have said it better.

Except that I always thought "roids" was short for hemorroids, not steroids.

But yes, the Neo Geo is a 16 bit system...just like the Intellivision.


...word is bondage...

[Aswald]

5th Generation.

It can be placed alongside the Genesis, Super NES, and TurboGrafx-16. It was too soon for the 6th Generation, with the CDi, 3DO, etc.

By the By: I'm one of those people who consider the ColecoVision, 5200, and Vectrex to be 3rd Generation, and the Intellivision to be 2nd Generation, alone. Many agree, but other people do figure it differently.