Golden NWC cart:real value of it

[sivarto]

Going by past auctions, DreamTR's experiences, and general past discussions, you can safely appraise just about any condition gold cart for $5000, as long as it isn't in absolutely horrendous condition. And honeslty, that's probably exactly what they average...$5000 when sold.

Iirc, one sold for near 8k once, but I don't have any saved record of it. I don't reccomend paying over $6500 for one, as you'd be getting a super-shitty deal. I'd offer the average 5k as a maximum bidding amount and leave it at that.

BTW, get pics before you buy. Really good, hi-res pics (gold carts are not numbered like the grays and can only be uniquely identified by their label placement and and other artifacts like tiny scratches and such on the cart), as you don't want someone waving around stock pics that have been floating around the net. You dont want to fuck around with a purchase like this and it should be inspected by some of us to ensure authenticity. On a selfish note, I want the pics to document the cart ...still plugging away at documenting all things NWC...I really do hope I get enough info to write the book I want to write about the event...getting there, but slowly. Got a lot of interviews and other info, but it's slow work.

-Rob

Thanks for your very informative and useful post Rob.
Yes,right amount to pay is the one you said but in my opinion I don't even care that much if the cart has scratches or not...I mean it is a loose cart anyway,no packaging at all.

My main concerns are now about the chips being faulty inside and the value being affected by it; and not last,about the fakes like you said.

Also,the fact that there are 26 of them around suggests me a good deal on them can still be gotten(even if you don't acquire a ultra mint one but just a fair conditioned one)

[Jumpman Jr.]

in my opinion I don't even care that much if the cart has scratches or not...


....My main concerns... about the fakes like you said.

See, that's the thing. (I'm not sure if you understood this in rbudrick's post or not). The scratches are what can tell you if it is a fake or not (or at least, that's the way I understand it). If you get a copy that has never been documented before, there might be a possibility that it is a fake (if somebody could fake it, which they probably couldn't). In any event, I highly suggest talking to rbudrick repeatedly throughout your transaction. He's the man when it comes to this stuff.

[sivarto]

in my opinion I don't even care that much if the cart has scratches or not...


....My main concerns... about the fakes like you said.

See, that's the thing. (I'm not sure if you understood this in rbudrick's post or not). The scratches are what can tell you if it is a fake or not (or at least, that's the way I understand it). If you get a copy that has never been documented before, there might be a possibility that it is a fake (if somebody could fake it, which they probably couldn't). In any event, I highly suggest talking to rbudrick repeatedly throughout your transaction. He's the man when it comes to this stuff.

I think anyway it is pretty simple to scratch a fake cart to make it appear real if the main point to look at was that.
I meant to say I don't really care that much about the condition of the cart nor am I paying a premium to get it mint.
$5000 or 6000 is already a very very big amount to pay and very few buyers would be ready to bite at that price.

As a side note,I understand what others said about the fact they would buy it if they had the cash to throw for it...and that's really the big difference:many people would but very few will actullay pay if a gold cart popped up and the price reached $5000 or more.

Also,about what member Buyatari said,I think it sounds pretty reasonable but it can just apply to every collectible item: to get his gold cart you have to pay the price he wants but the same can be said about let's say, a rare pc engine game or hardware,neo geo home carts,sega 32x darxide..like if I wanted to buy Kizuna encounter from the guy who got it off ebay for $12500 and he asked $30000 to part with it...it is his price and not the real market price.

[jajaja]

I dont think there are any real market price on super rare items like this. Price may variate alot from buyer to buyer and when its being sold.

[sivarto]

I dont think there are any real market price on super rare items like this. Price may variate alot from buyer to buyer and when its being sold.

I would agree but talking about the nintendo gold cart it seems there IS a market price for it,ranging from $1500++ to $6500 like Rob explained:infact quite a few of them were sold and the price range is pretty easy to grasp.

If you pay more,your getting a bad deal since serious collectors know the real price range of that thing.

[Oobgarm]

I'm sure that I'm not the only one with this question but I do have the balls to ask it. What is this game? I don't feel like searching rather get a more detailed response since it appears a lot of the responders know quite a bit about this game.

This should tell you what you need to know.

http://www.atarihq.com/tsr/nes/nwc/nwc.html

I dont think there are any real market price on super rare items like this. Price may variate alot from buyer to buyer and when its being sold.

I would agree but talking about the nintendo gold cart it seems there IS a market price for it,ranging from $1500++ to $6500 like Rob explained:infact quite a few of them were sold and the price range is pretty easy to grasp.

If you pay more,your getting a bad deal since serious collectors know the real price range of that thing.

I couldn't agree more with that. That arguement about variating price can apply to anything. People can go nuts and overpay, but that doesn't skew the cart's value. That just shows someone had too much money to burn.

[rbudrick]

I think anyway it is pretty simple to scratch a fake cart to make it appear real if the main point to look at was that.
I meant to say I don't really care that much about the condition of the cart nor am I paying a premium to get it mint.

Oh, of course it's easy to scratch a cart, but the NWC carts are virtually fingerprinted...in hi-res scans of any given NWC gold, you can plainly see how any given pre-documented NWC cart is impossible to fake. The tiny artifacts unnoticeable to most are truly unique identifiers and basically impossible to fake. Sure, a game can have additional artifacts added, but the old ones can't be taken away. I generally try to document 5-7 things on any given gold cart to uniquely identify it. Unfortunately, I only have documentation for 5 or 6 of them, as finding the gold cart owners and getting pics is somewhat difficult and requires a good amount of detective work in some cases, especially when the available pics are blurry or have significant glare from the gold carts' reflectiveness.

DreamTR, if you would, I humbly ask you to contact the people you know with the golds and ask them to contact me, or allow me to contact them.

-Rob

[jajaja]

I dont think there are any real market price on super rare items like this. Price may variate alot from buyer to buyer and when its being sold.

I would agree but talking about the nintendo gold cart it seems there IS a market price for it,ranging from $1500++ to $6500 like Rob explained:infact quite a few of them were sold and the price range is pretty easy to grasp.

If you pay more,your getting a bad deal since serious collectors know the real price range of that thing.

I couldn't agree more with that. That arguement about variating price can apply to anything. People can go nuts and overpay, but that doesn't skew the cart's value. That just shows someone had too much money to burn.

Well.. not anything. Retail games usualy have a market price. Sure, the price might variate with a few dollars, but with very rare items its diffrent. Like the guy who offered buyatari $12000 for the NWC gold cart. Is the market price $12k if thats the only copy sold for 1-2 years?

[sivarto]

I dont think there are any real market price on super rare items like this. Price may variate alot from buyer to buyer and when its being sold.

I would agree but talking about the nintendo gold cart it seems there IS a market price for it,ranging from $1500++ to $6500 like Rob explained:infact quite a few of them were sold and the price range is pretty easy to grasp.

If you pay more,your getting a bad deal since serious collectors know the real price range of that thing.

I couldn't agree more with that. That arguement about variating price can apply to anything. People can go nuts and overpay, but that doesn't skew the cart's value. That just shows someone had too much money to burn.

Well.. not anything. Retail games usualy have a market price. Sure, the price might variate with a few dollars, but with very rare items its diffrent. Like the guy who offered buyatari $12000 for the NWC gold cart. Is the market price $12k if thats the only copy sold for 1-2 years?

The key is just to understand that in this case market price means average price for the gold carts actually sold during the years.
It is not one of a kind item,as said there are 26 of them and as Rob and DreamTR said,it is totally possible to see the real price range of the cart.
Even from Buyatari's post can be guessed or better read the right price of the cart:
he wrote that for $5000 some collectors would actually buy it. That points right towards the "market" price for the golden cart.

As a final note,like written in the other topic,the offer of $12000 was seriously questioned and seemed to be from a non paying person.

Keep also in mind the seller I located is legit and he is asking right now $8000 for his cart but it seems too much in my opinion.

[rbudrick]

They kind of only get sold once every two years or so anyway.

Hypothetically, while if someone pays 12k for one, then it does inflate the *average* price, and some may argue (perhaps rightfully), inflate the *actual* value of them all, things will still always be worth only what people are willing to pay, and the average serious collector with the dough is usually only willing to pay up to 5k. So while it may be more valuable, it doesn't mean you'll get the higher price for it. However, if you saved recorded proof of the sales of these, proving average value, it may be useful in an insurance case if the item were stolen (and individually insured to begin with).

-Rob

[sivarto]

Also an interesting note on the actual price trend for the gold cart: the latest price paid for it on ebay was about $3500 or 4000,far from the more expensive amounts paid for the previous sales.
So,the trend seems anyway not an increasing trend.

[cyberfluxor]

I'm sure that I'm not the only one with this question but I do have the balls to ask it. What is this game? I don't feel like searching rather get a more detailed response since it appears a lot of the responders know quite a bit about this game.

This should tell you what you need to know.

http://www.atarihq.com/tsr/nes/nwc/nwc.html

Ahhhh. Didn't know it was short-termed for Nintendo World Championships. Now that was cleared up quite well. Thanks!

[jajaja]

Ye, i know its not one of a kind, but its still very rare and probly the most expencive thing for NES. Hell, not even unreleased and undumped games hits this price hehe.

I wouldnt agree that the market price is the average price of whats its been selling for years. As DreamTR said, he sold some for $1500 in 1999. If you add the average price it would be below $5000, im pretty sure of it.

Today, i guess the chances for these to change hands are very rare. Most copies are already in the hands of bigtime collectors. So i'd say the real value is whatever the buyer wants to pay

[rbudrick]

I wouldnt agree that the market price is the average price of whats its been selling for years. As DreamTR said, he sold some for $1500 in 1999. If you add the average price it would be below $5000, im pretty sure of it.

Could be, true. 5k is really just a guess, based on some that have sold for more, and some for less. But, in conversations with other collectors I've had, this seems to be the magic number that always pops up. The true average could most certainly be lower, yes.

-Rob

[Jumpman Jr.]

I wouldnt agree that the market price is the average price of whats its been selling for years. As DreamTR said, he sold some for $1500 in 1999. If you add the average price it would be below $5000, im pretty sure of it.

Could be, true. 5k is really just a guess, based on some that have sold for more, and some for less. But, in conversations with other collectors I've had, this seems to be the magic number that always pops up. The true average could most certainly be lower, yes.

-Rob

I think you might be misinterpreting what DreamTR had said (either that, or I am misinterpreting). He said:

Ranged from $1500 and loads of rares back in 1999

Which means that he probably sold one for $1500 plus a whole bunch of rare-ass games that he needed at the time to complete his NES collection.
Again, that's just what I got from his post, he would know a little bit more than me though

[DreamTR]

$1500 and all of the SNES test carts, $1500 and all the rare Euro boxed games and a gray NWC with missing label, things like that. Never $1500 alone.

[jajaja]

I might been missunderstanding, but the way i understood it he said from $1500 - $6500, talking about the 6 gold carts.

I had 6 of the gold carts at the time, and I know how much I sold them for, and where they went, and who they were traded to. Ranged from $1500 and loads of rares back in 1999 to $6500 3 years ago.

Even if the average price was around $5000 it still doesnt change what i said at the end tho I dont know if this is the right way to calculate the market value. I'd say that the market value is what it sells for now, and that price may variate alot.

Today, i guess the chances for these to change hands are very rare. Most copies are already in the hands of bigtime collectors. So i'd say the real value is whatever the buyer wants to pay

[sivarto]

the average serious collector with the dough is usually only willing to pay up to 5k.
-Rob

This is a very good sum up of the price for these in my opinion and totally based on facts.
If there is 1 factor that can heavy affect for sure the market price of gold carts is what they sold for.

Of couse someone,as well expressed before,"can go nuts and overpay" but at the end of the day collectors won't pay more than its regular known price.
Like if I buy it for $8000 and then I have to sell it and MOST LIKELY I wil loose money since offers will be lower.

And then again,last on ebay barely fetched $4000...kinda risky to put one for sale with 1 dollar starting bid if your hoping to get $6000+ for it.

[Buyatari]

Ohh this is funny.

Its only worth 4k yet the cheapest one you can find for sale is 8k and 3 other sellers who said they would turn down 15k.

also 2 points

1. There are not 26 gold carts. There are less than 10. Thats like saying there are 3000 stadium events or 10000 Atari 2600 quadruns.

2. You don't even know the buyer who offered to buy my NWC. He is also a member here. To call him a deadbeat without personal experience is uncalled for. He offered to paypal me 1/3 the ammount as a deposit. Thats a 4k DEPOSIT !

None of your arguments matter. You fail to see the main point. Its a seller market NOT a buyers market. If you want one you have to pay what a seller wants. The days of 4k gold NWCs are over. Think about this.....If you bought one for 3-5k YEARS AGO would you sell for 4k knowing you might never see another esp after hearing about a possible offer of 12k or 15k? No one who spent 3-5k on a Nintendo cart would sell to break even unless they were desperate and thats all they could get for it. It just doesn't make sense.

[sivarto]

Ohh this is funny.



1. There are not 26 gold carts. There are less than 10. Thats like saying there are 3000 stadium events or 10000 Atari 2600 quadruns.

2. You don't even know the buyer who offered to buy my NWC. He is also a member here. To call him a deadbeat without personal experience is uncalled for. He offered to paypal me 1/3 the ammount as a deposit. Thats a 4k DEPOSIT !

None of your arguments matter. You fail to see the main point. Its a seller market NOT a buyers market. If you want one you have to pay what a seller wants. The days of 4k gold NWCs are over. Think about this.....If you bought one for 3-5k YEARS AGO would you sell for 4k knowing you might never see another esp after hearing about a possible offer of 12k or 15k? No one who spent 3-5k on a Nintendo cart would sell to break even unless they were desperate and thats all they could get for it. It just doesn't make sense.

These points you brought up are here addressed.

1) There are 26 of them and that is the most correct info on them already confirmed by many collectors.
Your number is just a way to boost up the price in case you sell your copy.
Also,since you know 8 owners of them you just assume there are only 8 of them...as I already said not all the owners are on this board(like the owner I located) and the official numbers for the gold carts are correct.

2)You are assuming the price nowadays would be more than what you paid...makes you wonder why you didn't star an auction from $1 on ebay and see what the final price will be,way less than $8000,you bet.

Your supposed buyer was already known as a non-paying buyer and all he gave you were words.Words about total amount he would be ready to pay and words a deposit as well.

You fail to see how the prices in collectible items are not always increasing as a general tren but when they are already very high(like $4000 or 5000 for this cart) they won't increase much more or could even go down.
PROOF of that is your purchase of the cart on ebay...yeah yours is a low conditioned cart but still fetched less than previous sales of the same cart happened years before.

Also,as already stated,very few people will put the money where their mouth is,you can be sure about that,espcially talking about $4000 or more price tag.

As for your main argument:it is a seller market.
Out of 26 or at least 20+ gold cart owners it is quite likely one of them will decide to sell,cash in and move ahead,like you were trying to do.
And when you decide to sell and cash in,you will have to get the best REAL offer you can or you just won't get a sale.
On the other hand,it seems really difficult to me someone may be THAT disperate to pay $10000 or more to get a cart that all the other owners paid a fraction of that cost...since you know you are overpaying and your making a totally bad investment:you will never come out ahead if you sell nor break even just to get your money back if you decide to sell.
Of course you "could find" a desperate nes collector ready to pay that much but it is very unlikely in my opinion since if you are after that kind of thing you will do your homework and discover what other collectors OVER THE YEARS have paid for it and then you will be ready maybe to pay something more to be happy and have it but not for sure 2 or 3 times the usual price of it!

Bottom line:you can ask any price you like for your cart but until you can get a REAL sale you are not even a seller.
But hey,maybe you can find someone ready to shell out $10000 or more...a fool and his money are soon parted.