Sony= still 2-D haters

[jajaja]

I agree with what you are saying, but that doesn't necessarily mean I can justify spending $600\$800 on a games console, just because the technology it provides might become useful in a few years.

Saying that its cheap for what it offers might be true, but then again why not wait a couple of years until this whole Blu-Ray thing actually picks up, and then buy a Blu-Ray drive for just a fraction of the PS3's launch price?

Anyway, its still early to be arguing over the value of a system that hasn't even been released yet, and I'm definitely not the one to be telling you what to do with your money - if you have the spare cash and you think its worth it, buy a PS3 and use it as a friggin doorstep for all I care

Well.. ye, compared to the other consoles the PS3 is the most expencive. But it is state of the art for what you can get as a console Many people dont care much about this therefor i think its good that Nintendo and Microsoft have a cheaper alternative.

I will personally wait about 6 months before i get one. I never buy thing at release date. I waited for the PS2 to drop with about $250 before i got it and then i also got 2 games included. I dont have any problems waiting.

If they bundled a cappuccino maker into the PS3 and only charged and extra $50 I wonder if the Sony lovers would still say it's a great deal since a cappuccino maker generally sell for more than that?

You also missed my point. I never said that you should buy it just because its a good deal. I said you must compare the price for the PS3 and to a standalone Blu-Ray player. If your going to buy a standalone Blu-Ray player which will probly cost about the same price as a PS3. PS3 have much more features than a standalone player so you get much more for the money, therefor its not a bad price.

Cappuccino maker is old tech and something completely diffrent. Its not essensial nor needed to play the new games and it doesnt make the games better or faster. I know this was just a joke from you, but still it cant be compared to Blu-Ray and Cell CPU :P

Isn't everyone tired of companies telling us what we need and then charging us for it rather than letting us decide for ourselves?

You need the Cell CPU and Blu-Ray player to get the maximum effect out of the PS3. These 2 things is what makes PS3 the PS3. Why do you want to remove these things? You say you want to decide for yourself, how would the PS3 be if you could decide?

Btw, you can decide for yourself of course, or are anyone forcing you to buy the PS3 at launch?

[SkiDragon]

I said you must compare the price for the PS3 and to a standalone Blu-Ray player. If your going to buy a standalone Blu-Ray player which will probly cost about the same price as a PS3. PS3 have much more features than a standalone player so you get much more for the money, therefor its not a bad price.

The PS3 will be a very competitively priced Blue-Ray player.

[jonnyutah]

2d is not a bad thing. especially when you ad hd visuals, multi core processing and and 512 ram intersting possibilities arise.

I'd like to see snk do some stuff on live arcade. bring on over a samurai showdown collection maybe a metal slug collection

[suckerpunch5]

Dont know if this was ironic, but i answer anyway. A standalone Blu-Ray player will cost about $600, if not more when it comes out. So the PS3 is cheap. You must compare the price to what you get.

Yeah, sign me up for a Blu-Ray player. Not. Who gives a crap? (rhetorical question). I have a 29" televsion. I'll never have a huge t.v. A lot of people are just like me. I have no need for HDTV, or Blu Ray. I don't think I ever will.

Meh. I shouldn't have responeded to this. I just get so emotional. . .

[Griking]

Cappuccino maker is old tech and something completely diffrent. Its not essensial nor needed to play the new games and it doesnt make the games better or faster. I know this was just a joke from you, but still it cant be compared to Blu-Ray and Cell CPU :P

Other than the old tech part the exact same thing could be said about Blu-Ray

[SirDrexl]

We have no idea at this point how good the BR player in the PS3 will be. It could be very poor in quality compared to a standalone player, just as the PS2 was as a DVD player. Then again, I'm not sure the general public will care. There are people out there who think that if they have an HDTV, their DVDs become HD (whether their player is capable of upscaling or not).

[jajaja]

Cappuccino maker is old tech and something completely diffrent. Its not essensial nor needed to play the new games and it doesnt make the games better or faster. I know this was just a joke from you, but still it cant be compared to Blu-Ray and Cell CPU :P

Other than the old tech part the exact same thing could be said about Blu-Ray

Blu-Ray discs can store upto 50gb (or is it 54gb?) of data. This allows the developeres to make more detailed and better games. So it IS essensial and needed.

You never answered my question btw, you said you wanted to decide for yourself what the PS3 should have, what would it be?

Yeah, sign me up for a Blu-Ray player. Not. Who gives a crap? (rhetorical question). I have a 29" televsion. I'll never have a huge t.v. A lot of people are just like me. I have no need for HDTV, or Blu Ray. I don't think I ever will.

Meh. I shouldn't have responeded to this. I just get so emotional. . .

Are you saying that Sony should drop the HD support on the PS3 just because someone doesnt have a HD-TV? HD-TV is the future. And who gives a crap? Why do you think PS2 sold so well? Because it also had a DVD player.

[Lord_Magus]

Cappuccino maker is old tech and something completely diffrent. Its not essensial nor needed to play the new games and it doesnt make the games better or faster. I know this was just a joke from you, but still it cant be compared to Blu-Ray and Cell CPU :P

Blu-Ray discs can store upto 50gb (or is it 54gb?) of data. This allows the developeres to make more detailed and better games. So it IS essensial and needed.

Blu-Ray isn't essential nor needed at this stage, and hardware doesn't make better games - developers do.

Just as a sidenote, I'll remind you that the most visually impressive game of the current generation (Resident Evil 4, hands down) was developed for only the 2nd most powerful system (GC), which was also the one using discs with the smallest capacity (2x1.5GB).

At this stage, Blu-Ray just seems like a cheap(?) trick on Sony's behalf to generate interest in their upcoming system, simply because they have absolutely nothing else going for them at the moment.

[jajaja]

Blu-Ray isn't essential nor needed at this stage, and hardware doesn't make better games - developers do.

Try making duke3d in fully 3d for NES :P Of course hardware have alot to say for the games to be better. Better hardware gives the developers more options.


Well.. for once, cutscenes would be in much better quality, this take alot of space. Upto date i agree that 50gb of space isnt needed for games, but some day it will. Today alot of compression is used. When you have more space you dont need this. 3d models are more detailed etc. Stuff like this takes more space.

I dont understand why you want the PS3 to have a DVD player instead. I mean, you use so much time to argue against me why the Blu-Ray player is bad, so its obviously that you want it to be removed.

Why not be one step ahead? Would you prefer to use $200 less on a PS3 now and then buy an external Blu-Ray player in 2 years for $200? This is the way they do it for the xbox360. Matter of taste of course, but i strongly prefer to have it integrated than having some external device hooked up.

[chrisbid]

Wow! Don't you people realize that if 2D games sold well here in America then companies would be all over marketing them to us? A simple equation of supply and demand; and there is no demand for some games here. If you want them so bad then buy a mod chip and import. And quit the bullshit about brainwashing, 3D games suck, and Sony being evil. Kid Ice had it right Sony is winning the console war for a reason. I look through my library of PS2 games and find plently of good titles; some 2D others 3D.

capitalism is supposed to be about choice, if consumers arent even GIVEN a particular choice, then how can we make it? its not just video games though, companies in a lot of industries all copy cat each other and give you 1000 flavors of the same thing. try shopping for regular deodorant (not anti-perspirant) or hand soap that is not anti-bacterial

[SkiDragon]

Back in the day I'm sure processing power, etc. made a big difference in the quality of games. It would be difficult to port Super Mario Bros. to the Atari. Nowadays though it doesn't make as big of a difference. Are we really saying that a game is better if it has more detailed cutscenes? I think they would be better off making games that are more than one disc, the same thing PSX did with normal CDs. It would mean the system could use a much cheaper drive, and the price of games would go up by the 20 cents or whatever that it costs to make an extra DVD.

[n8littlefield]

Whenever this topic of SCEA wont allow 2D games to be released, I ask for one example of a game, that was already completed and released in Japan, that wanted to come out here, and was denied.

So, one specific example?

You won't find that many examples because not many companies are crazy enough to spend the time and money to complete a game that they know Sony won't allow to be released.

Didn't the Working Designs president rip Sony over their game approval policies before the company went out of business?

I didn't see anyone respond to this yet, but yes, he did. When they went under, he posted a message on their message boards, it contained lines like these:

(re: Growlanser) "We just spent too much time fighting the good fight to even get it out"

"Though almost finished and substantially improved from the Japanese release, Goemon is dead for the US, and that was really the final straw, If I can't guarantee that the games I personally choose for us to release in the US can actually get approved and come out, there's no business to be done."


"Sony has made it clear that they do not want the details of their dealings with any publisher made public. Suffice to say that you would buy what we wanted to sell if we could sell it."

And my favorite:

"It's a tough road ahead for games that aren't of the least-common-denominator variety. The choices you make with your hardware dollars are more important than ever for the generation that is upon us."

So yeah, Sony basically killed them by allowing them to work on games and then not approving them.

[Nature Boy]

Can you guys remind me why you care that Sony doesn't release 2D games? You obviously hate the company, so it's not like you own their machine. And if you don't own their machine who is left to buy the 2D games?

I especially love reading the bits about how Sony brainwashes people into buying the same game over and over again, while at the same time you're going on about stuff like Metal Slug 3 (not exactly new and innovated in my books...)

[shoes23]

Wow! Don't you people realize that if 2D games sold well here in America then companies would be all over marketing them to us? A simple equation of supply and demand; and there is no demand for some games here. If you want them so bad then buy a mod chip and import. And quit the bullshit about brainwashing, 3D games suck, and Sony being evil. Kid Ice had it right Sony is winning the console war for a reason. I look through my library of PS2 games and find plently of good titles; some 2D others 3D.

capitalism is supposed to be about choice, if consumers arent even GIVEN a particular choice, then how can we make it? its not just video games though, companies in a lot of industries all copy cat each other and give you 1000 flavors of the same thing. try shopping for regular deodorant (not anti-perspirant) or hand soap that is not anti-bacterial

No capitalism is about making money, not consumer choice. If you were a CEO of a large software devoloper and you could release a game that you are sure will sell over 1 million copies, are you telling me that you would pass that up to bring some niche game to the market instead, that even if it does really well may only sell half of what your million seller would do? If there was a bigger market for those games here then we would see them here.

As far as Sony and the console wars go I'm just tired of hearing the pointless banter back and forth between which console is going to be better/is better. Those who have been around gaming throughout most of it's progression will tell you that they heard talk like this for every major console since the Atari VCS.

[n8littlefield]

Wow! Don't you people realize that if 2D games sold well here in America then companies would be all over marketing them to us? A simple equation of supply and demand; and there is no demand for some games here. If you want them so bad then buy a mod chip and import. And quit the bullshit about brainwashing, 3D games suck, and Sony being evil. Kid Ice had it right Sony is winning the console war for a reason. I look through my library of PS2 games and find plently of good titles; some 2D others 3D.

capitalism is supposed to be about choice, if consumers arent even GIVEN a particular choice, then how can we make it? its not just video games though, companies in a lot of industries all copy cat each other and give you 1000 flavors of the same thing. try shopping for regular deodorant (not anti-perspirant) or hand soap that is not anti-bacterial

No capitalism is about making money, not consumer choice. If you were a CEO of a large software devoloper and you could release a game that you are sure will sell over 1 million copies, are you telling me that you would pass that up to bring some niche game to the market instead, that even if it does really well may only sell half of what your million seller would do? If there was a bigger market for those games here then we would see them here.

As far as Sony and the console wars go I'm just tired of hearing the pointless banter back and forth between which console is going to be better/is better. Those who have been around gaming throughout most of it's progression will tell you that they heard talk like this for every major console since the Atari VCS.

But in this case it's not Sony choosing to approve a million seller over a niche title. It's not Sony's money to lose. Working designs isn't asking Sony to put $$ behind a 2D game, they're just asking for approval to release it.

The complaint comes that Sony is willing to allow garbage like BMX XXX, Simpson Skateboarding, or McFarlane's Evil Prophecy over some very good Japanese games simply based on the fact they are not programmed in 3D.

To put it plainly, Sony would rather NOT approve games, drive Working Designs out of business, and LOSE THE INCOME from the licensing fees on those games than allow a 2D game be released. That is complete crap.

[smork]

The complaint comes that Sony is willing to allow garbage like BMX XXX, Simpson Skateboarding, or McFarlane's Evil Prophecy over some very good Japanese games simply based on the fact they are not programmed in 3D.

To put it plainly, Sony would rather NOT approve games, drive Working Designs out of business, and LOSE THE INCOME from the licensing fees on those games than allow a 2D game be released. That is complete crap.

Yeah, but it's their company, their crap, and they can do what they want with game licensing. If they don't want to "cheapen their brand with old technology" or whatever their reasoning is for rejecting 2D -- well, that's their choice. Obviously Nintendo and Microsoft aren't so restrictive in their approval of 2D -- so if I am a developer who wants to make a 2D game for the US, i'd choose a different platform, and if I am a consumer who likes NTSC/U 2D games, i'd choose a different system. There's more than one.

Working Designs knew how Sony was, so it's somewhat disingenuous to bitch about SCEA doing what SCEA does. If I were them I would have localized some GC games.... Or GBA games. Or hell, how about the Mother 1&2 GBA pack? That'd sell!

[tritium]

The reason DVD change picked up into high gear the way it did is because of the abundance of relatively inexpensive dvd players for the PC, and because the PS2 was inexpensive in comparison with other DVD Players at the time.

The problem is that the developers of the Blu-Ray DVD systems are taking a page out of the history of Laserdisc instead, which did not do too well because it was too expensive for the average consumer.

Regardless of inflation, a $600 entry level price is really high for the average gamer. I would definitely get more value by throwing 600 into my PC. It was NOT the case with a $300 price point.

Pricing is a tricky situation. If you price it too low, it will seem to be too cheap as in quality regardless of actual quality, if you price it too high, you'll have people who simply aren't willing to spend that much.