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Thread: this is ridiculous...

  1. #21
    Peach (Level 3)
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    I gotta agree with PDF here, we've all got a great opportunity here to have a discussion with the mod/admin team of this community concerning how to handle things like this going forward.

    Let's get past the perceived injustices and hurt feelings and try to offer something constructive about what guidelines should be used when dealing with topics/subjects that have been dicussed previously.

    @Mods/Admins: I do think that it's a great idea to have a dialogue on this issue.
    Obviously with retro gaming riding a wave of popularity, our community here has seen some increases in numbers notwithstanding that with all hobbies you will have people who will naturally come and go as interests/priorities change.
    A quick look at the original top 50 NES project thread shows that many of the posters (not just the op) in that thread aren't that active in the community any more, and that there are very few instances where the same people are participating in the old/new thread.

    Part of the problem in reviving/adding to classic discussions is that in many cases, the original post cannot be amended/edited to reflect new/changing views of the community.

    In this case, any new discussion would have commenced on page 4 of the original thread, and results/comparisons of new discussions mired within the text of the original thread.

    That doesn't lend well to having people participate, nor towards allowing room for new members to weigh in on older discussions in a way which allows their input to be given the same weight when it comes to ranking/adding/removing titles from within the existing list.

    At some point, particularly with classic gaming we'll have gotten to the point where anything we discuss will have been discussed before, it's inevitable, as there just aren't new products being released that often to stimulate new discussion...only changing perspectives of existing members, or new input from new memebers, not around during the original discussion.
    I think we can find a way to allow for fresh input and ideas without stifling community interest by locking topics.

    Heres an idea:

    What if we could stay within the spirit of the original discussion/thread and still allow for new ideas/input via something like this.
    Let's say a member wants to revive or re-examine a classic discussion or list.
    What if we setup a guideline where such topics could be reopened every (insert time frame here).

    We could make it fun and DP-centric by requiring some kind of purchase from a DP shop of a token/item costing meseta that could be used to revive a classic discussion.

    Upon use of said token, the classic thread or a variant (split) of said topic could be opened within the appropriate board (in this case, Classic Gaming).

    The original results of the old discussion could be used as a jumping off point, and new discussion could take place, with results of the new discussion either inserted just under the original discussion (the second post of the thread, for ease of comparison) or the results updated within the first topic/original list of the old discussion.

    This would require hands on efforts of the mod team to manipulate/integrate the new discussion with the old, which is why I suggested the use of time buffers and meseta purchases to avoid these discussions being revived every 6 months or so.

    Thats just one idea which could be fun, and could be used to integrate new ideas with classic input from the community.

    Personally I prefer the new stuff being inserted as second post in the original thread rather than modifying the original, as many of the original contributors might not be around anymore, and we shouldn't invalidate their work by erasing a snapshot of the DP community from that timeframe.

    Sorry about writing a novel here, hopefully it wasn't too cumbersome to get through.

  2. #22
    Apple (Level 5) Julio III's Avatar
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    I think pretty much everyone in this thread has made valid points and it is a really hard issue to work around. Topics like top 100 which exist but the old thread doesn't work do somehow need a way to be kept current.

    About locking threads, I feel it does seem bad to shut down good discussion if it has been going for a while. Maybe a simple rule like if a thread has already spread over a page then it should not be locked as it is proving a popular discussion. Obviously this would not count for threads where flaming has begun.

  3. #23
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    Maybe stickying the top 100 platform-specific games lists?

  4. #24
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    Every message board I've ever been on has this exact problem. I have yet to see a working solution for it.

    In my personal opinion, let the topic repeat itself. My top 10 (don't know enough for 100) is not the same as it was in 2002, and won't be the same in 2010 (when I know more titles).

    Nate

  5. #25
    Authordreamweavervisionar yplusactor Arcade Antics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydr0x
    Quote Originally Posted by digitalpress
    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but what would you propose we do? How long is an acceptable time to wait before starting a duplicate poll?
    the point is, it's not even duplicate, it significantly differs from the old one (voting system, top100 instead of 50), PLUS the old one is completely dead and in all honesty not quite a nice effort overall
    Two questions:

    1) Why have you ignored the question above? If you want to come in here and make constructive suggestions, we're listening. If your plan instead is to say "the mods suck," you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    2) What makes the old thread "not quite a nice effort"?

    As for the title of this thread, I'm finding your attitude toward the whole thing ridiculous. And tiresome. Bashing everyone here who is trying their damndest to keep things running smoothly is not helping. Seems to me (and I could be wrong) that you won't be happy until you've goaded the mod staff into retirement in the hopes that somehow, you'll be given their position.
    Selling collection, Atari through XBox. Send a PM with whatever games you're looking for.

  6. #26
    ServBot (Level 11) ShinobiMan's Avatar
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    I do agree that locking this thread was a big mistake. A useless end to a great discussion.

    I remember the discussion of the top 50 from long ago very well. Personally, I would rather read and participate in a discussion created a month ago than do the same in a discussion that started 3 years ago. Sure it's been done before, but really, there are new members with new opinions on the subject at hand. Don't they have a voice?

    I don't think It's fare to force people into dropping their discussion and starting it again in a 3 year old post.

    Sure everything needs rules and regulations, but sometimes we got to use common sense. And that common sense tells me that if I was in the position, I would not have locked such a popular and relevant topic. Based on the voices I read in this topic right now, I think it's safe to say that locking it might have not been the best idea.

    Hydrox, I commend you for voicing your opinion. I agree with you 100%.

  7. #27
    Pac-Man (Level 10) vintagegamecrazy's Avatar
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    That old thread is pretty stagnant and doesn't have too much organization, the new one has more organization and will probably pan out like the top 100 of all time thread. I don't see why it's locked, the old is top 50 this one is 100, the old one includes whole series in the list this one is individual games only, it would be impossible to redo the old topic to fit the wants and opinions of the current members. The old topic can't be changed and certain games will inevitably be stuck where no one wants them to be. I think the top XX lists should have their own area on teh boards and maybe a new list for each system could be generated like once a year at the most, that way it would give people a chance to voice their opinions on their favorite games without dredging through an old top XX thread. Mods, and Joe too, I am not saying this in anger or to be a jerk, but I think you are stepping on a lot of heals if you keep this topic locked. Like I said before I would suggest maybe having a top list section on the boards that is moderated, that way they could be enjoyed to the full extent and not push every other well intended thread out of the way in the classic discussions board.

    I hop I am making sense of what I just said. Feel free to have me clarify if I'm not.
    If they made a movie out of your top five worst sins, what would it be rated?

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  8. #28
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    Its not unusal to make a Top XX list every year or so. I dont see a top 100 list either, only top 50 and it was started in 2002.

  9. #29
    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    I agree with it being locked, after all we just having the TOP 100 Countdown.

    And anyway, for SNES and NES, it's always Mario or Zelda. The Nintendo fanboys have no imagination.
    Snes:
    on the list:
    Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
    Super Mario World

  10. #30
    Starman (Level 23) Phosphor Dot Fossils's Avatar
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    While we mods are discussing this over wine and cigars on the company yacht, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out this three-year-old thread for folks who feel the need to demand changes from the mods.

  11. #31
    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Nice pussy!!!

  12. #32
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    Why...thank you.

  13. #33
    ServBot (Level 11) hydr0x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcade Antics
    Quote Originally Posted by hydr0x
    Quote Originally Posted by digitalpress
    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but what would you propose we do? How long is an acceptable time to wait before starting a duplicate poll?
    the point is, it's not even duplicate, it significantly differs from the old one (voting system, top100 instead of 50), PLUS the old one is completely dead and in all honesty not quite a nice effort overall
    Two questions:

    1) Why have you ignored the question above? If you want to come in here and make constructive suggestions, we're listening.
    first let me say i'm quite pissed by the fact that you are allowed to attack me personally once again on the public board without any authority in here interfering, that's the kind of mod behaviour noone wants to see. I know you can't stand me at all, no secret there, but keep it to yourself, ok?

    i did not ignore the question at all. The question adressed duplicate topics and i pointed out that these two topics have nothing in common other than trying to find the X best games for a system. The whole systems differs and especially with nes and snes it makes a huge difference if 50 or 100 games.

    Yeah, i could have made a suggestion on how to handle this stuff, but truth to be told, i'm NOT a mod here and i do not have to come up with a solution to be allowed to complain about something. Users can point out things going wrong without having the perfect solution at hand, you know?

    If your plan instead is to say "the mods suck," you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.
    thanks for another attack

    why do you think i wanted to say "the mods suck". Even if that would be how i think, i did definately not say that. And after all i'm free to feel how i want, or did DP become a communist community? i guess not. No, seriously, please do confuse criticism on one point with a general bash.

    2) What makes the old thread "not quite a nice effort"?
    well, several aspects. Not to mention the fact that the user who did it is not active at all anymore it just wasn't the best way to start such a list.

    1) Top50? for SNES? you gotta be kidding, there's way too much good games on that system to reduce it to 50.

    2) Handling series as one game (not everyone might agree with this). While that's a good idea for sports games and similar i can't think of any other snes game series where games are just an update of it's prequel, except maybe Donkey Kong Country. So for a system like SNES i think every game should be counted for itself (similar could be said for the NES)

    3) there were absolutely no rules, check the first post in those lists by theaveng, all he's saying is "post your favs and i'll compile a list", this leaves WAY too much room for his personal influence, if he doesn't like a game he doesn't have to include it, if he wants his favourite to be in there, it's in there. Also people have no idea when a game qualified for the list and why

    4) the list allows games to be dropped without giving a reason, GREAT

    5) hardcoregamer's list will get a ranking vote (if i understood it), so it's a ranked list, not just an alphabetical. huge difference, and might even make it worth doing write-ups (like the top 100 overall currently running)

    As for the title of this thread, I'm finding your attitude toward the whole thing ridiculous.
    no, actually you find it ridiculous that people openly critizise mod behaviour. Well, as long as there's a valid reason for this you should not find that ridiculous but ask yourself why it's happening. And if you think THIS is criticism you should witness some discussion about DP (i'm not participating in those usually, mind you) on various internet boards and even in our own vbender.

    And tiresome. Bashing everyone here who is trying their damndest to keep things running smoothly is not helping.
    where did i attack mod work in general? i could have, but i didn't, please check your facts

    Seems to me (and I could be wrong) that you won't be happy until you've goaded the mod staff into retirement in the hopes that somehow, you'll be given their position.
    that's just utter nonsense, and you know it. (and btw, the whole topic just the community is on my side here, you might think about that before making it sound like i'm the lonely fighter attacking something here)

    seems to me that you won't be happy until the day the community shuts up and just accepts whatever you want to do
    -Jan

  14. #34
    Insert Coin (Level 0) daynum's Avatar
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    I also think it's a shame the NES thread was locked, especially under the circumstances. When that thread was first created I actually expected it to get locked very soon so refrained from posting. When it had been up for a few days I thought it must have been mod approved so got involved. For it to be locked when it was nearly complete at 90/100 games... well I don't really see the point.

    On the subject of the classic discussions thread that we're being told we should post in, I'd been there before but didn't add my nominations because I saw that other posters that had done so had been ignored. In fact the last time the original poster updated the list was in August 2002 so he obviously doesn't care about it anymore.

  15. #35
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    Why not allow a seperate group to take a look at a different angle? We all have different opinions and they vary. Sometimes quick locking and linking to previous threads is neccessay (ex. how to play imports on xxxx for example). All im saying is create a seperate set of random members (5 to 10) to review locked posts over one page and determine if they are justified. Btw, I don't read top xxx posts but, I does bring up a need for a system of checks and balances for the board.
    "Honor is not about making the right choices, but dealing with the consequences" ~ Midori Koto

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    exactly, difference.

    My fave SNES game is Mr.Do!, an excellent version of the coin-up classic, a title which SNES users would probably never put in their Top 100 list

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydr0x
    And if you think THIS is criticism you should witness some discussion about DP (i'm not participating in those usually, mind you) on various internet boards and even in our own vbender.
    Conversation on "various internet boards" doesn't make things better HERE, does it? Funny how these conversations take place in vbender and don't involve the people who are equipped to make positive changes, isn't it?

    I acknowledged that locking the thread was a mistake....not a "big mistake", let's put things in perspective here. None of us are curing cancer.

  18. #38
    classicus carnivorous
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    The thread that has caused such an uproar is open again.

    Before blasting this site or its moderators, a simple PM asking us to reconsider would be a polite way to get your point across. No one likes a crybaby, and trust me when you post a complaint without any possible solution, you're a crybaby in my eyes.

    Our mods work very hard to maintain order and organization here. If you're on the outside crying about locked topics you just don't understand what it takes to manage a million threads. Respect this free site by messaging those who run it instead of chastising them, and you'll find that you often get the same results without damaging reputations.

    Thank you for your consideration.

  19. #39
    Bell (Level 8) CosmicMonkey's Avatar
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    It would seem though that the other two 'Top' lists are still locked. The fact I started the Neo list has nothing to do with this.

    I looked at the link that was provided in the Neo thread. It seems that no-one has posted in ages and 25 games were never actually setteled upon. Also, my thread was to allow voting etc, much like the NES thread. Again, I don't understand why the SNES list is still locked either?

    I understand there's a Top 100 games, but that list is covering every game for every platform. It would be useful to have Top lists for every console too, with the links to the individual threads contained in one stickyed 'Top 100 Games - General & Platform Specific' thread.

    That way, we could have it as a yearly event even? Gives us something to talk about and look forward too.

    I'm more than happy to maintain the Top 25 Neo list. And I'm sure the guys who started the other threads will be happy to see theirs through to completion.

  20. #40
    ServBot (Level 11) ShinobiMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalpress
    The thread that has caused such an uproar is open again.

    Before blasting this site or its moderators, a simple PM asking us to reconsider would be a polite way to get your point across. No one likes a crybaby, and trust me when you post a complaint without any possible solution, you're a crybaby in my eyes.

    Our mods work very hard to maintain order and organization here. If you're on the outside crying about locked topics you just don't understand what it takes to manage a million threads. Respect this free site by messaging those who run it instead of chastising them, and you'll find that you often get the same results without damaging reputations.

    Thank you for your consideration.
    But Joe, had he PMed a mod, would that one mod make things better? Hydrox has chosen to voice his opinion, one that many DP members happen to agree with.

    Hydrox has provided us a way to share some of our thoughts openly. If you consider your forum a democracy, what is wrong with freedom of speech? I don't recall him BLASTING the moderators, but rather, bringing to attention a very important matter.

    I find it interesting that the only ones on the defensive side of this thread happen to be the mods. As if humanity is incapable of making mistakes.

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