IGN and Spot are saying the Wii is GameCube 1.5

[Anthony1]

When I'm at work all day, all I can really do is listen to headphones, so I download alot of podcasts and listen to them while I'm at work. I was listening to a number of IGN and Gamespot podcasts, and there seems to be this general feeling from them, that the Nintendo Wii's technology is very much like a GameCube 1.5. This one girl on IGN, don't know her name, kept wondering why they even decided to make the Wii, when they could have released their special controller as a perepheral for the Cube, and it would have worked just the same.

One of the shows had a long talk about Madden on the Wii, and they thought that Madden on the Wii was a very bad thing, because if sports gamers buy a Wii and Madden, they are likely to return both in disgust because the graphics are so poor. Before any hardcore Nintendo people get super pissed at me, I'm simply mentioning what they discussed on these podcasts. They were saying that madden for the Wii is going to give gamers a very bad impression of the Wii, and it's going to make them think that the Wii isn't even really a next-generation system in terms of power.

I can't remember all the comments that I heard, but all of the editors are still excited about the Wii, but they are saying that mass market consumers might be in for a shock in terms of how "not quite Next-Gen" the Wii's graphics look. Sure graphics are just one part of the equation, but you know how shallow people can be. These guys are saying that the only game they saw that really looked like it was running on something more powerfull than the GameCube was Mario Galaxy. A few thought Metroid looked pretty close to next-gen, but that the other games looked like GameCube games, for the most part.


Man, I was planning on buying the Wii if it launches for $199.99, but now I'm not so sure. They were talking about the control mechanisms for Metroid and Red Steel, and they said that both control styles need to be dumped for a more Halo style control. You can't do quick movements and stuff, they said the control is just awkward and doesn't make sense. They were hoping that there is enough time before launch that their controls could be salvaged. Hmm, I'm not so sure about this. Man, why the F didn't Nintendo at least to try to add some Next-Gen technology to this thing? Even at $199, it should look considerably beyond the Xbox 1. IGN and GameSpot both think the tech of the Wii is somewhere inbetween the Cube and Xbox 1. The Xbox 1 was released 5 years earlier, the Wii should have a much better GPU than this, even at $199. What the fuck did they do? x_x

[Emuaust]

do you honestly think that there is a big enough gap
in hardware specs between a GCN and a Xbox for it to fit
in?

Honestly this hardware spec business is bullshit as the GPU's
act differently due to different cpu architecture and everyone
is completly fucking paranoid about this.

[s1lence]

Does it really matter as long as the games are fun to play?

[Push Upstairs]

Beats being N64 1.5.

[GrandAmChandler]

Does it really matter as long as the games are fun to play?

Thank you. I will be purchasing this system for fun factor. Not graphics. Anyone who purchases a Wii for graphics are gonna be sad. Get a Wii because you like playing with your Wii. Not to look at your wii. No one likes just looking at a Wii, a Wii is meant to be played with and enjoyed.

[milhouseOFpain]

This one girl on IGN, don't know her name, kept wondering why they even decided to make the Wii, when they could have released their special controller as a perepheral for the Cube, and it would have worked just the same.

Jag CD
32X
Sega CD
Nintendo DD
3D goggles

[digitalmouse]

Does it really matter as long as the games are fun to play?

Thank you. I will be purchasing this system for fun factor. Not graphics. Anyone who purchases a Wii for graphics are gonna be sad. Get a Wii because you like playing with your Wii. Not to look at your wii. No one likes just looking at a Wii, a Wii is meant to be played with and enjoyed.

And I thought we were passed this Wii joke stage. I guess you are never too old to make a joke about a Wii.

[Zadoc]

Does it really matter as long as the games are fun to play?

Thank you. I will be purchasing this system for fun factor. Not graphics. Anyone who purchases a Wii for graphics are gonna be sad. Get a Wii because you like playing with your Wii. Not to look at your wii. No one likes just looking at a Wii, a Wii is meant to be played with and enjoyed.

Thank you. You won't be purchasing Wii games for very long if the mass majority of gamers don't support the console. You also won't have a varity of games if third parties feel that Wii software won't sell.

I predict that Wii 3rd party support will be the worst for any Nintendo console based on the cost of designing games specifically for the Wii's controller, and the low install base that the Wii will achieve do to it's power problem.

[DreamTR]

That's the problem with most people. They only want eye candy. Anyone who is buying the XBOX 360 for games right now other than Table Tennis, Tops Spin 2, and a handful of others only want the graphics.

Wii is actually unique because it is a different type and style of gaming. Look at Nintendo DS and PSP. Completely different systems, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

[NightHawk777]

That's the problem with most people. They only want eye candy. Anyone who is buying the XBOX 360 for games right now other than Table Tennis, Tops Spin 2, and a handful of others only want the graphics.

As long as your "handful of others" include Call of Duty 2, Oblivion, and Dead or Alive 4, I can't argue with that.

[Anthony1]

The point of this discussion, is not to say, "Well, if all you care about are graphics, then the Wii isn't for you". The purpose of this discussion is to debate whether or not the Wii really is a GameCube 1.5 from a technological standpoint. The editiors, with their personal takes, made it really clear that they think that the Wii is very close to the GameCube in capabilities, and they are quite suprised by that, but still interested in getting a Wii. The question is..... Is the Wii really this underpowered? Or are the current games being designed on a GameCube and then ported over, and the only game "really" using any of the Wii specific technology (I'm not talking about the controller at all) is Mario Galaxy. The consensus, is that Mario Galaxy is the only game that appears to be beyond the GameCube's capabilities.


I'm not saying that somebody should avoid the Wii just because it isn't a technological powerhouse, but I have to admit, I'm wondering why the Wii isn't significantly more powerfull than their previous system. I mean if it's going to essentially be a GameCube 1.5 in terms of power, why the hell did they make it? Why not just release the new joystick as a peripheral? Why make people spend almost 3 times as much money for basically the same technology, shrunken down, with wi-fi and a virtual console tacked on? Is the Wii basically just a GameCube in a different case with Wi-Fi added to it? And some kind of flash drive or whatever?


I'm just trying to figure out if these people are really telling the truth in how weak the graphics looked. I know that the Wii isn't going to be competing against the 360 or PS3, but it should clearly be "far" beyond the Xbox 1 in graphics, simply because it's 5 years newer technology. Didn't ATI do the GPU in the Wii? They did the GPU in the 360, how could the Wii's GPU not at least be up to the standard of Nvidia's original GPU on the Xbox 1? Doesn't the Wii have much more memory than the Xbox 1? This just doesn't make since, unless developers are designing their games on GameCube development systems, and the only one that has a real Wii development system is the team working on Mario Galaxy. I'm not trying to talk smack about the Wii, I'm trying to understand why it's like this, if this is really true. I'm assuming they are telling the truth, because they are normally very pro-Nintendo, and not anti Nintendo, so I don't think they are making it up. I didn't actually go to e3, and it's hard to tell with online videos, so I can't really comment on what they are saying.

[cyberfluxor]

Get a Wii because you like playing with your Wii. Not to look at your wii. No one likes just looking at a Wii, a Wii is meant to be played with and enjoyed.

Well stated.

Thank you. You won't be purchasing Wii games for very long if the mass majority of gamers don't support the console. You also won't have a varity of games if third parties feel that Wii software won't sell.

Key word if. I beg to differ since most people I've talked to are going in the direction of Wii due to price and inventive gameplay. As for third parties, I think it'll improve due to the dynamics of what they can do with a game. Companies will want to jump on the bandwagon and be different to put their name out there.

I predict that Wii 3rd party support will be the worst for any Nintendo console based on the cost of designing games specifically for the Wii's controller, and the low install base that the Wii will achieve do to it's power problem.

Not as bad as the GameCube. Because it's not as high tech as the Xbox360 or PS3 it's a softer game machine for companies to program for. It shouldn't take quite as many hours to produce and money to spend for the highest graphics and gameplay in the world. About the controller though, it's not that hard. I'm sure Nintendo has an easy programming method of I/O communications, they wouldn't want to make it difficult.

Just wait and see what'll happen, lets not have crazy debates. If you really sit back you'll see this will be a very interesting consule battle comming up.

[unwinddesign]

That's the problem with most people. They only want eye candy. Anyone who is buying the XBOX 360 for games right now other than Table Tennis, Tops Spin 2, and a handful of others only want the graphics.

Wii is actually unique because it is a different type and style of gaming. Look at Nintendo DS and PSP. Completely different systems, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

Hardly true about the Xbox 360. I found Table Tennis to be quite dry and boring -- and not because of the graphics (which are pretty good, actually). Simply put, real ping pong is much better, and much more intense. It may be an amazing representation of ping-pong, but nothing beats holding a paddle in your hand. And honestly, I can go and play ping-pong for free without stupid focus shots and ridiculously cheap and annoying AI.

The game I play most is Geometry Wars Evolved. Because it's fun. It's almost worth a 360.

I didn't like the DS, and I don't think the Wii is going to bring anything really "new" to the table. People will say it's the newest and most bestest way to play games, like the DS, but if you look at it, Nintendo is kinda suckering people. The DS just isn't fun to play. It's just straight up not.

I'm not holding out much hope for the Wii, to be honest. I'll buy one at launch and give it a fair shake, but the whole premise seems gimicky. Maybe I'll be surprised. But I'm fully expecting a lot of "slightly better looking" Gamecube style games playable with the regular 'Cube controller and with special WiiMote functionality enabled.

[ProgrammingAce]

Is the Wii just gamecube 1.5? From a developer's standpoint, yes.

Early on in Revolution game dev, Nintendo came out and said that developers should just make gamecube quality games and they'll hash out the hardware specs later. Well, here we are later, and we still have gamecube quality games... and here's why.

The Revolution devkits were just G-Devs with an addon board. For those who don't know, a G-dev is a gamecube devkit. So up until developers received the final dev hardware, all they were really using were gamecube devkits with a wand attachment. That's why the first gen of wii games look like they'll work on a gamecube... because in many cases they would.

[Darren870]

Does it really matter as long as the games are fun to play?

Thank you. I will be purchasing this system for fun factor. Not graphics. Anyone who purchases a Wii for graphics are gonna be sad. Get a Wii because you like playing with your Wii. Not to look at your wii. No one likes just looking at a Wii, a Wii is meant to be played with and enjoyed.

Thank you. You won't be purchasing Wii games for very long if the mass majority of gamers don't support the console. You also won't have a varity of games if third parties feel that Wii software won't sell.

I predict that Wii 3rd party support will be the worst for any Nintendo console based on the cost of designing games specifically for the Wii's controller, and the low install base that the Wii will achieve do to it's power problem.

Do you read any articles on this subject or just sit down on the shitter and come up with these theories yourself? A lot of companies have said they are looking forward to working on the wii and are love how its a low cost system to develop for.

IE Nintendo DS

In terms of graphics im not worried, if they can get stuff like RE 4 and other stuff on gamecube ill be happy, i play my gamecube all the time and don't have anything bad to say about it.

This might actually be the first madden game i buy...ever...

[Bronty-2]

Is the Wii just gamecube 1.5? From a developer's standpoint, yes.

Early on in Revolution game dev, Nintendo came out and said that developers should just make gamecube quality games and they'll hash out the hardware specs later. Well, here we are later, and we still have gamecube quality games... and here's why.

The Revolution devkits were just G-Devs with an addon board. For those who don't know, a G-dev is a gamecube devkit. So up until developers received the final dev hardware, all they were really using were gamecube devkits with a wand attachment. That's why the first gen of wii games look like they'll work on a gamecube... because in many cases they would.

Cool. So there is some untapped power that will hopefully be used in year 2..

[Icarus Moonsight]

The question is..... Is the Wii really this underpowered? Or are the current games being designed on a GameCube and then ported over.

It's not underpowered, it's simply less powerful (in specs) than the 360 and PS3.

Back when Nintendo first launched the DS I was confused as to what they were going for. There was this little voice in the background of my mind - and it chanted "Virtual Boy" over and over. This time around I'm not going to be so skeptical. I'm gonna grab my Wii and play the hell outta it. :P

I have some thoughts on the questions you posed;

I mean if it's going to essentially be a GameCube 1.5 in terms of power, why the hell did they make it?

No matter how much I love the lunchbox, Nintendo sorely needed a new image and a clean slate for the console market. With the lines that Wii drew at E3 can you seriously ask why not Gamecube with a straight face? No one would have cared about the remote control peripheral for the cube.

Why not just release the new joystick as a peripheral <for the cube>?

Secondly, peripherals DO NOT catch on with the consumer or developers. They needed a new platform to introduce the new control interface as the standard - not the option. They also needed to be taken seriously... trying to put the Cube on life support via a bold new control peripheral is (sadly) laughable.

Why make people spend almost 3 times as much money for basically the same technology, shrunken down, with wi-fi and a virtual console tacked on?

Even at 3 times the price of a Gamecube the Wii will be cheaper than a 360 and nearly half the cost of the PS3. I think a previous poster was right on with the "Apples and Oranges" comment.

Is the Wii basically just a GameCube in a different case with Wi-Fi added to it?

Nope, it's a Wii, Gamecube, N64, SNES, Genesis, TG-16, NES and God knows what else!

Didn't ATI do the GPU in the Wii? They did the GPU in the 360, how could the Wii's GPU not at least be up to the standard of Nvidia's original GPU on the Xbox 1? Doesn't the Wii have much more memory than the Xbox 1?

The Gamecube came close to the Xbox in graphical power, and if Wii is only Gamecube factor 1.5 (though from what I've heard it's more like 2 to 3 times GC) then yes, it would have to be faster than the Xbox GPU. I can't remember if the memory for Wii was 128 or 256mb... it will be expandable, or so I hear. Even at 128 that is double the original Xbox... and I'm leaning tward 256.

I think alot of gamers like the Wii but are afraid that Nintendo won't hit the target that they set for themself. With the run of N64 and Gamecube, the concern is well founded. However there is a "little handheld that could" that broke the mold, shrugged off the cynism (I'm even guilty of it) and is now doing very well. DS proved the model solid - now all they have to do is get them Wii kiosks out in the stores and let the public play. I'm sure after that, graphics won't be an issue.

[Zadoc]

Key word if. I beg to differ since most people I've talked to are going in the direction of Wii due to price and inventive gameplay. As for third parties, I think it'll improve due to the dynamics of what they can do with a game. Companies will want to jump on the bandwagon and be different to put their name out there.

I don't know about you, but most gamers who I talk to are hardcore gamers like us, and they all own a PS2, Xbox and a Cube.

Most gamers are not the gamers who you and I talk to. The general public has no idea what a Wii is. We do because we're hardcore gamers.

Look at the market. How many copies of that 50 Cent game sold? No one but us care about inventive gameplay, the public wants cool gameplay with cool graphics. It's the same crap that sells in the movie industry; XXX = case in point. No substance, just special effects.

Not as bad as the GameCube. Because it's not as high tech as the Xbox360 or PS3 it's a softer game machine for companies to program for. It shouldn't take quite as many hours to produce and money to spend for the highest graphics and gameplay in the world. About the controller though, it's not that hard. I'm sure Nintendo has an easy programming method of I/O communications, they wouldn't want to make it difficult.

I am sorry, I will clarify. I am not talking about the cost of programming the game to work with the controller, I am sure that is realitively simple, I am talking about the cost of programming a whole game designed around the use of the controller. Over 80% of Gamecube games were ports.

It will be expensive for developers to create games specifically designed for the Wii's control scheme. If the Wii preforms only as well as the Gamecube did, I don't think that developers will support it.

The ports will also look pretty bad;and I imagine that many games won't be able to be ported from a 360 or PS3 due to Wii's technical limitations.

I do not expect the device to sell well in the US market. I'll be getting one when it comes out, I just don't think that will be doing well six months after its launch.

[Griking]

What I'm hearing was that you were all hyped up to buy a Wii until someone said something bad about it on a podcast and gave you second thoughts. I say turn off the podcasts while in work and listen to music instead. Ignore all the hype (both good and bad) and base your purchasing decision on the actual finished product when it's finally released.

[studvicious]

Just wait until the 2nd or 3rd wave of games for it to come out. I have no doubt that it will look good. If the cube put out visually stunning games like RE4 and StarFox Adventures then having a system that could take that and push "it to eleven" doesn't worry me at all.

And Nintendo even said that when they feel that the market is really ready for a high-def system they'll release one. And it wouldn't necessarily be 5+ years from now.