View Poll Results: Has modern gaming left Sonic as a relic of gaming's past?

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  • Yes, Sonic's time has come and gone for me.

    8 38.10%
  • No, Sonic games are still fun.

    7 33.33%
  • No, but he is on his last legs. One more bad game and I'm done.

    6 28.57%
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Thread: Has modern gaming left Sonic as a relic? Will Sonic & the Secret Rings revive him?

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    Pear (Level 6) agbulls's Avatar
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    Question Has modern gaming left Sonic as a relic? Will Sonic & the Secret Rings revive him?

    I'm curious as to what you guys think. I'm 26--and have been enjoying the Sonic series (including the Adventure series) since the first title. With few exceptions, most notably Shadow, I think Sega has done an above average job making above average games with an excellent character.

    However, the newest title--"Sonic the Hedgehog"-- has received terrible scores across the board. I have this excellent little Sonic miniature that sits in my cube, and he just keeps staring at me. He's saying, "C'mon Adam...you know you've enjoyed MOST of my games. Forget Shadow the Hedgehog. This is a 360 title. Go on out to the EB and buy my new game. Ignore the reviewers and the garbage fanboy posts on gamefaqs."

    But, I just can't ignore the problems that people talk about. Furthermore, I thought the demo was decent. Nothing spectacular, but I enjoyed it. So, here I am with a dilmena. Has Sonic really passed his prime? Mario seems to keep on kicking. What do you guys think? Also, for those that have played it, how's the new game?
    Last edited by agbulls; 02-16-2007 at 09:34 PM.
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    Pac-Man (Level 10) Joker T's Avatar
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    I hated the demo, can't imagine the game is much better.

    But it really comes down to what you like, if you have Xbox Live download the demo and try it yourself. Your own opinion should come first.

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    Crono (Level 14)
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    Actually i feel this way with Mario too, when he went 3d. I've heard New SMB is great, but still.. Mario in 3d isnt a true Mario game imo.

    Maybe its the same with Sonic too? I dont have any connections to Sonic since i never owned a Sega system when it was popular (now i have most of them). I've always had a problem with the first Sonic games since i find it too hard to see whats going on on the screen. Its too fast and the background blends too much in with the foreground (atleast at some missions).

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    Pear (Level 6) agbulls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jajaja View Post
    Actually i feel this way with Mario too, when he went 3d. I've heard New SMB is great, but still.. Mario in 3d isnt a true Mario game imo.

    Maybe its the same with Sonic too? I dont have any connections to Sonic since i never owned a Sega system when it was popular (now i have most of them). I've always had a problem with the first Sonic games since i find it too hard to see whats going on on the screen. Its too fast and the background blends too much in with the foreground (atleast at some missions).
    That's an interesting theory Jajaja. But Mario 64 is definetly part of the series in my opinion. Also, I think most Sonic fans tend to like at least Sonic Adventure 1. It just seems that platformers are much more natural in their "native state"---that of 2D. 3D brings in things that are never concerns in a traditional platformer...camera, invisible ledges etc. I'm just curious if you guys think that most modern adult gamers have now officially written Sonic off? After all, it took 3 (or 4?) terrible Tomb Raider games before that series was corrected. Is that what we're looking at now with Sonic?
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    Peach (Level 3) dylan0228's Avatar
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    I think if you enjoyed the demo, you`ll probably enjoy the game. That has been the case in the majority of instances i`ve used that strategy. If I like the demo, the game is usually better.

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    I kind of feel that Sonic the Hedgehog has built up too much history at this point. Too many anime series, too many characters, too many gameplay styles. In the first game you found against this weird round guy in red pants and a flying machine and his robots that turned into animals when you hit them. Life was simple. Not so much anymore, I daresay.

    Mario is also getting a little burdened with history, but I don't think it has gotten as bad just yet.
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    Bell (Level 8) sabre2922's Avatar
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    The root of the problem is this: the SEGA! of old is all but DEAD.

    I remember back when anything made by SONIC TEAM was almost certain to be a AAA game but now they keep releasing mediocre to bad games one after the other the Last great game Sega has released was the Genesis collection on PS2 and PSP and thats just a retrocollection a GREAT compilation to be sure.

    Sure many of the ppl that made Sonic Team so great back in the Genesis/Saturn and even the Dreamcast days are gone now but it seems that all but the Virtua Fighter development teams have left the building for good and in their place are nothing but "shadows of their former selves" -RE pun intended.

    I did enjoy the two Sonic Adventure games especially the first but its sad for an old-time gamer like me to see some of the beloved 2-D characters/franchises tarnished so badly in their recent 3-D makeover/redesigns and even REredesigns.

    The good thing is that there still may be hope for Sonic I mean if TOMB RAIDER can comeback to life as it did with legends a very good and solid game then certainly Sonic still has a chance.

    I actually surprisingly find myself keeping tabs on the Tomb Raider Anniversary game being made for PS2 and umm psp and I used to revile that series after TR2 so in conclusion there is always hope..even for Sonic.

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    Sonic the Hedgehog will someday make a comeback!

    Don't give up hope, peeps!

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    If you enjoyed Sonic Heroes, you might enjoy this new game, because it also sucks!

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    or... ew... billy hatcher and the giant egg.....


    There just doesn't seem to be a way to drag sonic into 3d (personally i find Sonic Adventure pretty awful too). If there is a way, whoever is left at SEGA has neither the tallent nor the finances to do it. I find it amazing that SEGA can afford to keep throwing millions into the development of these games. Either they're going to figure out they suck, or they'll go bankrupt... i'm leaning towards bankrupt myself.

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    Yeah, bankruptcy's inevitable, what with Sega-Sammy's 31% increased net profit this year:

    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=11611

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    As a long time Sonic fan who still enjoys Sonic's portions of the Adventure series and the flawed but fun Sonic Heroes, I say give this game at least a rent.

    Sonic's 3D titles on a whole, as complete games are average at best. When you focus on Sonic's platform areas you get a much better experience.

    Sonic 360 has some great moments and a catchy soundtrack. Unfortunately there's so much "non-Sonic" parts that it can put off even the biggest fans (like me).

    What Sega needs to do is focus on Sonic and Sonic only. The latest build I saw of Secret Rings looked promising. Hopefully Sega has realized the error of their ways and will finally start bringing out Sonic ONLY Sonic games. How about this for a title of the next 360 game:

    THE ONE, THE ONLY - SONIC THE HEDGEHOG

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    I agree. We don't buy Mario games to play as Toad and we don't buy Sonic games to play as one of the bazillion side chars. Gimme a game with Sonic, just Sonic and ONLY SONIC!!!!!
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    Banana (Level 7) Richter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabre2922 View Post
    The good thing is that there still may be hope for Sonic I mean if TOMB RAIDER can comeback to life as it did with legends a very good and solid game then certainly Sonic still has a chance.
    part of that is because a completely new developer taking on the games. Sega should follow
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedEye View Post
    Yeah, bankruptcy's inevitable, what with Sega-Sammy's 31% increased net profit this year:

    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=11611

    Huh... I couldn't quite figure out how that would work until i read a bit further down:

    Quote Originally Posted by TFA
    Sega Sammy CEO and group chairman Hajime Satomi noted in his report that by far the company's success rested on its "unrivaled" development in the pachislot and pachinko business
    Glad their pachinko division is pulling them through. Unfortunately they only have 30 titles with an average review score of 90 or above. That's for the entire history of the company...

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    Pear (Level 6) Melf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgrammingAce View Post
    Unfortunately they only have 30 titles with an average review score of 90 or above. That's for the entire history of the company...
    All that link shows is the sheer amount of uninformed people out there. Sega's made more classic titles than you can shake a stick at, and it has one of the most prestigious arcade and console pedigrees in the entire industry.

    That being said, old Sega > new Sega. Times have changed, key people have left, and the company just doesn't seem as motivated as it was when it had to produce quality software for its consoles. The fact that turds like Shadow the Hedgehog sold over a million copies doesn't help much to get it to change its ways either.

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    Sonic Team has had a hard time dealing with the transition to full 3D. Thats been the problem.

    Theres not a ton that can be done to make Sonic still feel speedy and fun in that full 3D environment. The worlds would just have to be ENORMIS and thats not going to happen. What we get are decent attempts at making some new stuff (Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2) and some weird stabs in the dark (Shadow The Hedgehog, Sonic Riders) while they still push the classic Sonics because they can. My personal favorite Sonics of the last 5 years have been the GBA/DS titles though I did enjoy Sonic Adventure/Adventure 2.
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    Kirby (Level 13) Push Upstairs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jajaja View Post
    Actually i feel this way with Mario too, when he went 3d. I've heard New SMB is great, but still.. Mario in 3d isnt a true Mario game imo.
    Ya know, i feel the same way. I can't really buy Mario 64 as a Mario game because i find the introduction of him punching, kicking, and butt-stomping enemies to be pretty mediocre. There was no real way to translate what made Mario good in 2D to a 3D setting and making Mario a "brawler" seems to have been someones solution.

    Sonic really suffers from a similar fate in that his 3D games just aren't as fun as his 2D ones. That and the powers that be decided that his games needed to be some type of ensemble thing, which really kinda sucks.

    The only 3D platform/character games i really enjoy are ones that were designed from the ground up for 3D.

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    Pear (Level 6) agbulls's Avatar
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    I would have to say this leaves me at a very interesting point of our discussion. We all generally agree that 3D has not been kind to Sonic, and has been average to Mario. Certainly, it has worsened other classics--most notabily Castlevania. Knowing that Castlevania SOTN will be coming to 360 via the arcade service (and the demand is there) is it possible we will see a future shift back to development of 2D on consoles? Or, is 2D the modern day video game equivalent to black & white?

    The DS has been a haven for many of us--and with Castlevania: POR showing game design still has places to go 2D clearly has opportunities. I guess services like XB arcade and Wii VC will be places for this "medium." But I want full fleshed out 2D games running in 1080i. Are the corp board rooms really that afraid of taking this kind of chance? Seems so.

    Just imagine...Street Fighter 4 with full 1080i in 2D. WoW.
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    Kirby (Level 13) ubersaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agbulls View Post
    I would have to say this leaves me at a very interesting point of our discussion. We all generally agree that 3D has not been kind to Sonic, and has been average to Mario. Certainly, it has worsened other classics--most notabily Castlevania. Knowing that Castlevania SOTN will be coming to 360 via the arcade service (and the demand is there) is it possible we will see a future shift back to development of 2D on consoles? Or, is 2D the modern day video game equivalent to black & white?

    The DS has been a haven for many of us--and with Castlevania: POR showing game design still has places to go 2D clearly has opportunities. I guess services like XB arcade and Wii VC will be places for this "medium." But I want full fleshed out 2D games running in 1080i. Are the corp board rooms really that afraid of taking this kind of chance? Seems so.

    Just imagine...Street Fighter 4 with full 1080i in 2D. WoW.
    I wouldn't go that far. Mario has had only two full 3d games released so far, and of them, one is widely regarded as fantastic, and the other as sort of average.

    3d really only has been bad to sonic because Segas constant pushing of other characters. I understand they do this to lengthen the game, but really, what are the funnest parts of all 3d sonic games? Running through the levels with Sonic. Few people want to fish with Big, or go hunting for emerald shards with Knuckles. It's not even that they aren't sonic-if the other character's game bits are fun, and balanced well with Sonic, there's no problem. But they haven't been yet.

    I see no shift back to 2d in the future on consoles, although it's still fine in the handheld realm. It's just as well-the 3d Zelda games and Metroid games have been fantastic. But really most of the older 2d franchises didn't go well into 3d simply because the developers didn't care that much to make something worthwhile. No one can tell me Capcom really put much effort into Final Fight 3D.
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