WTF is the deal with Germany? (Crackdown's getting the GoW, Dead Rising, treatment)

[jajaja]

In that case, I now forbid you from ever mentioning "America" as a monolithic unity. You must now provide examples from each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia if you wish to prove any point about the United States.

You are right that the 50 states have different laws, but USA is one nation. There is 1 president, 1 goverment, 1 constitution, 1 military, 1 flag etc. etc. This is not the case in Europe. Every country got its own constitution, president or king, flag, laws and so on.

If Bush does something, its something that USA does. Like, USA is in war with Iraq, its not Texas and Washington thats in war with Iraq, its USA. If Jacques Chirac (french president) does something, its France that does something, not Europe.

[tom]

>>>>>Magnum said: Thanks for the tip<<<<<

You are very welcome :-)

[Magnum]

[smork]

I think there's alot of confusion going on in this thread between the term "censorship" and "items not being sold by major retailers" or "news not reported in mainstream media". The latter aren't examples of censorship (caveat: UNLESS the media outlets are the only way to receive news, which ain't true in an internet-enabled world, except perhaps in China) -- you are allowed in the USA to create the most violent or pornographic movie or game imaginable, just don't expect see it for sale at a big box retailer. In other countries this is obviously not the case, but I can't think of too many cases where censorship is completely dire.

For example, I'm living in Malaysia right now, which is a Muslim country. The officially licensed media (and yes, newspapers MUST have a license to print or else the publisher can and will be sent to jail) censores items constantly in the name "harmony between cultures and religions" or "preserving the morality of the state." BUT -- the internet isn't blocked at all -- things i can't read about Malaysia in a newspaper I sure can on the internet. In effect, the net is a very liberalizing force where the government tries to restrict.

Likewise with games and movies -- many are censored or banned, but you sure can get a pirate copy anywhere, or have them shipped from overseas, and customs cares not at all.

My point is, in our globalized world it's had to call anything truly "censored", or anything actually "banned", as in most cases it's easy for someone to get around such crude blocks on what you want to purchase.

And really, it's kind of ludicrous for anyone in the US or a European country to cry censorship when there is very little that can even nominally be called "banned content." I'm sure in Germany it's perfectly easy to ring up an importer and get your GoW, Dead Rising, or Crackdown, and nobody's going to break down your door for doing so.

[KeeperBvK]

"I'm sure in Germany it's perfectly easy to ring up an importer and get your GoW, Dead Rising, or Crackdown, and nobody's going to break down your door for doing so."

Of course not, since they're just banned and not forbidden. Any adult is perfectly legal to buy those games. MS just wouldn't officially release them in Germany due to the banning, but they still could if they wanted to.

[FantasiaWHT]

You are right that the 50 states have different laws, but USA is one nation.
There is :

1 president- CORRECT
1 goverment- INCORRECT- every state, every county, every municipality has its own separate government. You'd be surprised how little power the federal government actually has.
1 constitution- INCORRECT- every state has its own constitution, which vary greatly
1 military- INCORRECT- every state has its own (confusingly labeled) National Guard, which reports directly to the governor of the state, not the president
1 flag- INCORRECT (but not really pertinent)

[jajaja]

1 president- CORRECT
1 goverment- INCORRECT- every state, every county, every municipality has its own separate government. You'd be surprised how little power the federal government actually has.
1 constitution- INCORRECT- every state has its own constitution, which vary greatly
1 military- INCORRECT- every state has its own (confusingly labeled) National Guard, which reports directly to the governor of the state, not the president
1 flag- INCORRECT (but not really pertinent)

So if i shall contact the United State's goverment there are 50 different ones? I was sure that all states followed the 1776 (or when it was written) constitution. If USA is at war, can each state choose to participate? So USA have many flags? Must be damn confusing if you're going to salute the flag.. or flags lol. If you mean state flags that isnt really a flag of its own. Point is, USA is one country, Europe isnt.

This is a pretty pointless discussion tho. The whole thing started with someone saying that people in USA had more personal freedom than Europe. I asked for examples and got 2 things in 2 different countries in Europe, and as i explained earlier, those 2 countries arent Europe, they are 2 countries in Europe. Wouldnt it be much easier to just accept the facts that Europe isnt 1 country? Instead you accuse me of comming with bullshit. Dont know what your problem is, but i know that for some people its very hard to admit mistakes. I have no idea why tho.

[Fanboy]

Yet, the fact of the matter is that if you are an establishment of press in one of these countries, and you print something that the government just absolutely does NOT agree with, they can(and do, and will) raid your offices, and confiscate whatever materials they see fit. For all of the problems I have with this administration, the one thing I hold dear and really the one thing pretty much unique to America, is that this type of thing just does not happen over here, or is not permitted to happen.

The New York Times would like to disagree with you.

Op-Ed article by Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann on redacted version of draft Op-Ed article they wrote for The Times, as blacked out by Central Intelligence Agency's Publication Review Board after White House intervened in normal prepublication review process and demanded substantial deletions; notes CIA officials told them that their original draft included no classified material, but that they had to bow to [the] White House...

On a similar note, if we look outside of the press, Rob Zacari would like to disagree with you about the freedom loving nature of the religious right White House.

In April 2003, the premises of Extreme Associates were raided by federal agents....

EVERY government practices censorship.

Besides, to tie this into the OP, internet gaming stores really make the German laws irrelevant. Just because a B&M store cannot advertise/display the games in question, it is no consequence to order the game online. (I just read about the GoW "ban" in GamesTM last night).

[FantasiaWHT]

Jajaja, my point is that if you honestly believe somebody needs to prove a generalization about Europe as a whole by pointing out a relevant example from every distinct region (country) then you would also need to prove a generalization about America as a whole by pointing out a relevant example from every distinct region (state). America and Europe are close enough to be comparable in size, population, and diversity of cultures.

Even the basic rights provided by the federal constitution are treated drastically differently in different regions in America. Easiest example is the second ammendment, which protects the right to bear arms. States interpret this in very different ways, and the "gun culture," that many Europeans like to brand America with, ranges from one extreme to the other across the country.

Yes, you asked for "examples". I gave you examples and then called BS on you because you changed your tune and said I needed an example from every country. That makes it obvious from the beginning that you weren't actually interested in considering evidence contrary to your personal view.

[jajaja]

Well.. i agree that there are some simularites to a state and a country, but they are 2 different things and cannot be compared side by side. If so, would you say that USA is 50 countries? And what is the difference between a state and a country?

You (or someone else) say that people in USA have more personal freedom than Europe and give example in France that people arent allowed to wear something to school. If you go to the neighbour countries you're allowed to wear anything to school and the example you gave doesnt apply. So how does this affect personal freedom in Europe that you arent allowed to wear crosses to school in France? What if you live in i.e. Holland? Thats also in Europe. Thats why i "stopped" you earlier when you only gave 2 examples in 2 countries.

Btw, the population in USA is about 300 millions, in Europe its about 700 millions. If you travel through Europe you will see that many countries are like day and night.

[FantasiaWHT]

Bah.. you still dont get it hehe. You speak like Europe is like one big country like USA and that the countries are like states. Do you look at USA as 50 countries? If so, what is the different between a country and a state?

You (or someone else) say that people in USA have more personal freedom than Europe and give example in France that people arent allowed to wear something to school. If you go to the neighbour countries you're allowed to wear anything to school and the example you gave doesnt apply. So how does this affect personal freedom in Europe that you arent allowed to wear crosses to school in France? What if you live in i.e. Holland? Thats also in Europe. The population in USA is about 300 millions, in Europe its about 700 millions. If you travel through Europe you will see that many countries are like day and night.

If you want to belive that the states in USA can be compared to the countries in Europe, well.. ok, i'll let you belive that. There are some simularities, i agree to that, but far from all.

I think we can leave it at that last paragraph I think the variety between countries in Europe is at least comparable, although granted not identical, to the variety between states in the US. The oversight of the federal government in America is greater than that of the oversight of the EU for its member countries, but both are based primarily on economic control, not social control.

[jajaja]

I did a edit before you posted. And just for the record, i dont sit on alot of info on how it is in Europe with rules and laws, the same goes for USA. Thats why i asked question when someone said that USA have more personal freedom. I wanted examples to see if any of them applied to where i live.

I found this description with Google:

While the terms country (synonomyous with "State") and nation are often used interchangeably, there is a difference. A country is a self-governing political entity while a nation is a tightly-knit group of people which share a common culture.

[Berserker]

The New York Times would like to disagree with you.

Hi.

Rob Zacari would like to disagree with you about the freedom loving nature of the religious right White House.

Ok, so I guess the point you're trying make with this is that the director of such films as "Forced Entry" and "Ass Clowns 3", having nothing to do with the press, would like to disagree with me about something I never said. Good work!

I was talking about freedom of press. You're talking about censorship of visual media, which is a whole can of worms seperate from anything I was talking about. Oh, and also "freedom loving nature of the religious right White House", which is an extremely vague and baseless argument either way you're cutting it. Did you just not see the "for all the problems I have with this administration,.." in my post? Selectively speed-reading through somebodys post and then hastily attempting to clammer together a rebuttal based on headlines isn't going to win you that many arguments in this lifetime, dude.

My point was that our level of freedom in the press exists not BECAUSE of the people in the White House, but in SPITE of them. And not for a lack of trying, either. And if they do they don't get very far, and there's usually a huge uproar, etc. We don't like our press being mucked with. Also, the CIA thing you quote delves into yet ANOTHER whole other can 'o worms, and one that I feel completely different and not-so-safe about, and that is the tendency of large press entities to censor THEMSELVES, simply from all of the upper-echelon ties and cahoots happening up in the wings.


So in summary -- Read better. Or stick to arguing with uninformed people.

[Lozza]

American TV is censored, but that's not the only problem with American TV, it's so infantile and fucking... wrong. America doesn't know what news is, doesn't know what film is and doesn't know what art is. America is a repressed country full of weirdos and religious fanatics and other assorted scum. A country with a rediculous murder rate, where you can't drink until your 21, but can buy a gun at 18.

America is just a shit culture, full of people that "think they know", republican gun lovin jesus worshiping bush bumming brain dead muppets!!!!!

[tom]

to tell you the truth, i don't understand USAs pro-gun culture either, must be going back to cowboy times, and Bush's a real one

[diskoboy]

to tell you the truth, i don't understand USAs pro-gun culture either, must be going back to cowboy times, and Bush's a real one

Maybe you should ask the Brits about that.

[diskoboy]

American TV is censored, but that's not the only problem with American TV, it's so infantile and fucking... wrong. America doesn't know what news is, doesn't know what film is and doesn't know what art is. America is a repressed country full of weirdos and religious fanatics and other assorted scum. A country with a rediculous murder rate, where you can't drink until your 21, but can buy a gun at 18.

America is just a shit culture, full of people that "think they know", republican gun lovin jesus worshiping bush bumming brain dead muppets!!!!!

Wow. Could we be any more narrow-minded? And where might we be from? Considering I (An american) started this topic talking against censorship. I'm not religious, and I didn't and would never vote for Bush.

And right - we have no idea what film or art is. That's why 90% of the movies out there come from Hollywood (In America...) The last good movie to come out of Europe in the past decade? Chilldren of Men. Oh, and since I don't know a damn thing about art - why do I have a masters in Liberal Arts? And why do I know names like Warhol, Lichtenstein, Monet, Picasso, etc. Yeah. We have no culture, whatsoever.

[Red Hedgehog]

American TV is censored, but that's not the only problem with American TV, it's so infantile and fucking... wrong. America doesn't know what news is, doesn't know what film is and doesn't know what art is. America is a repressed country full of weirdos and religious fanatics and other assorted scum. A country with a rediculous murder rate, where you can't drink until your 21, but can buy a gun at 18.

America is just a shit culture, full of people that "think they know", republican gun lovin jesus worshiping bush bumming brain dead muppets!!!!!

Wow. Could we be any more narrow-minded? And where might we be from? Considering I (An american) started this topic talking against censorship. I'm not religious, and I didn't and would never vote for Bush.

And right - we have no idea what film or art is. That's why 90% of the movies out there come from Hollywood (In America...) The last good movie to come out of Europe in the past decade? Chilldren of Men. Oh, and since I don't know a damn thing about art - why do I have a masters in Liberal Arts? And why do I know names like Warhol, Lichtenstein, Monet, Picasso, etc. Yeah. We have no culture, whatsoever.

Remember folks: Please don't feed the trolls.

[Lozza]

Wow. Could we be any more narrow-minded? And where might we be from? Considering I (An american) started this topic talking against censorship. I'm not religious, and I didn't and would never vote for Bush.

And right - we have no idea what film or art is. That's why 90% of the movies out there come from Hollywood (In America...) The last good movie to come out of Europe in the past decade? Chilldren of Men. Oh, and since I don't know a damn thing about art - why do I have a masters in Liberal Arts? And why do I know names like Warhol, Lichtenstein, Monet, Picasso, etc. Yeah. We have no culture, whatsoever.

There's loads of good films coming out of Europe, but you'd never know about most of them because they have no marketing in the USA and most never get released. La Haine never had a US release, and still to this day hasn't been released here. I (like most people that like good films) hate Hollywood. It doesn't do anything for film except make it big business while sucking all the art & origionality from it.

I'm not going to go as deeply into this argument as I could and I do admit that what i said came of as narrow-minded. I don't think that everyone in America is like that obviously! but there is alot of that. Just remember that all those artists you mentioned are European whether you know of them or not. America has very little in the way of art. But, this isn't the forum to discuss that sort of thing, BUT... If there were ever a game where you play as a rapist (as funny as it sounds!) or where you play as a terrorist bombing certain buildings with planes... You can bet they would ban it in the USA!

[Magnum]

A country with a rediculous murder rate, where you can't drink until your 21, but can buy a gun at 18.

Do you know the laws of all 50 states because I sure as hell don't.

I'm not going to go as deeply into this argument as I could and I do admit that what i said came of as narrow-minded. I don't think that everyone in America is like that obviously! but there is alot of that.

You clearly think most Americans are that way.

Just remember that all those artists you mentioned are European whether you know of them or not.

Don't fellate yourself like that. Every single fucking person on earth who can read knows those names.

But, this isn't the forum to discuss that sort of thing

No shit

BUT... If there were ever a game where you play as a rapist (as funny as it sounds!)

click Online Rarity Guide

or where you play as a terrorist bombing certain buildings with planes... You can bet they would ban it in the USA

No court would have the legal right, just so you know.

America is a repressed country full of weirdos and religious fanatics and other assorted scum.

America is just a shit culture, full of people that "think they know", republican gun lovin jesus worshiping bush bumming brain dead muppets!!!!!

That's worth just as much in racist hate speech as claiming that ghettos are full of tree swinging nigger monkeys, or saying that asians are barbaric warlords who all have sex with children, or saying and thinking that muslims are born wanting nothing more than to suicide bomb jews, or saying that aunt Bertha Lou, the 140 year old church lady is an architect of christian world domination.

It's worth every FUCKING cent.

It's seriously inflammatory. It's grossly ignorant. It's said for no sake other than to build your own graven image. And it's an obvious total lack of human compassion.

Take a look at yourself. Take a fucking look.