No lossless sound for Xbox 360 Elite system

[Anthony1]

Amir of AVSforums has confirmed my worst fear in regards to the Xbox 360 Elite. No lossless sound when used with the HD-DVD add on unit. For those that have no idea what the hell lossless sound is, it works like this:

When movies are put on DVD, the original audio has to be compressed to fit onto the DVD. Dolby Digital and DTS are two of the known compression routines. They sound incredible, but it's still a known fact that the sound is compressed. With the advent of HD-DVD and Blu Ray, along comes much greater storage capacity and the ability for movies to include the lossless (or uncompressed) soundtrack. As good as Dolby Digital 5.1 might sound, the lossless version of it sounds considerably improved. To get lossless sound from a HD-DVD or Blu Ray player, you need one of two things:


1. HDMI output

or

2. Analog outputs for each channel


It was thought that HD-DVD add-on owners would finally have a way to actually experience the improvement of lossless audio. The Xbox 360 Elite system has a HDMI output. Unfortunately, Amir from AVSforum dashed those dreams. Amir works directly for Microsoft, and was one of the lead people involved with the HD-DVD add-on unit, and explained in a recent post that the HDMI output for the 360 isn't meant for much more than video. Apparently it's some kind of hardware limitation with the 360. It seems that adding the ability to output lossless sound to the Xbox 360 Elite would have required a major re-working of the audio subsystem of the Xbox 360, and that it just wasn't worth it for MS to do that. He explained that the main reason for the HDMI output, was for people with 1080p TV's that lacked a VGA input that accepts 1080p. The Elite allows these people to see 1080p video via HDMI.


As a HD-DVD add-on owner myself, I'm very dissapointed with this bit of news. I'm very interested in hearing lossless sound in movies (and on certain PS3 games). I don't have a receiver that can handle lossless sound yet, but I'm planning on adding one in the very near future. I was hoping I would be able to hear lossless sound for both Blu Ray and HD-DVD movies, as well as certain PS3 games (Resistance, Lair). At this point, I'm thinking maybe I should sell my HD-DVD add on, and pick up a standalone HD-DVD player instead. I've heard some of the HD-DVD standalone players are going to get a pretty big price drop pretty soon. Well, I guess on the bright side, instead of spending unnecessary cash upgrading to the Elite, I can sell my HD-DVD add on, and add some money to that, and just get a standalone when the price drops.

[boatofcar]

So at first you claim: "As good as Dolby Digital 5.1 might sound, the lossless version of it sounds considerably improved."

Then you go on to say:" I'm very interested in hearing lossless sound in movies (and on certain PS3 games). I don't have a receiver that can handle lossless sound yet, but I'm planning on adding one in the very near future."


...which leads me to believe that

1- You've never heard lossless sound before, just taken the word of some "audiophiles" who think that wire color improves sound also.

2- You've heard lossless sound in an uncontrolled environment and have not really had a chance to see if it's better by giving yourself a double blind test with the help of a friend.


Either way, it sounds like you're whining about a feature that absolutely no one cares about, because all those concerned with lossless sound already know that a standalone HD-DVD player will give you better overall results than an add-on for a video game machine.

[Garry Shandling]

Gary Shandling

[BHvrd]

I just hope sound gets back to as good as it used to sound on laserdisc hi-fi.

I've never liked dvd audio. I always said it was too compressed and well, sounds like Gary Shandlin's face looks.

[roushimsx]

So at first you claim...

Well, I spent all of that time reading the OP and you stole my reply. I will say that I enjoy having the option of lossless audio, but with modern lossy compression codecs it's not an issue at all if it's not there. What's next? Are people going to start bitching about wanting uncompressed video because AVC level 5.1 looks like utter shit all of a sudden?

[Garry Shandling]

I just hope

Gary Shandling

[Lil_John]

Gary Shandling

WHAT!?

[GillianSeed]

Well, I spent all of that time reading the OP and you stole my reply. I will say that I enjoy having the option of lossless audio, but with modern lossy compression codecs it's not an issue at all if it's not there. What's next? Are people going to start bitching about wanting uncompressed video because AVC level 5.1 looks like utter shit all of a sudden?

Well the point is that they're marketing the Elite toward the sort of hardcore audio/videophiles who do bitch about stuff like this, even if the average consumer is left scratching their heads.

[Humongous Forum Troll]

nonsense

Do you ever stop making threads, you goon?

[Garry Shandling]

Amir of AVSforums has confirmed

Gary Shandling

[Ralph Wiggum]

Amir of AVSforums has confirmed my worst fear in regards to the Xbox 360 Elite. No lossless sound when used with the HD-DVD add on unit. For those that have no idea what the hell lossless sound is, it works like this:

When movies are put on DVD, the original audio has to be compressed to fit onto the DVD. Dolby Digital and DTS are two of the known compression routines. They sound incredible, but it's still a known fact that the sound is compressed. With the advent of HD-DVD and Blu Ray, along comes much greater storage capacity and the ability for movies to include the lossless (or uncompressed) soundtrack. As good as Dolby Digital 5.1 might sound, the lossless version of it sounds considerably improved. To get lossless sound from a HD-DVD or Blu Ray player, you need one of two things:


1. HDMI output

or

2. Analog outputs for each channel


It was thought that HD-DVD add-on owners would finally have a way to actually experience the improvement of lossless audio. The Xbox 360 Elite system has a HDMI output. Unfortunately, Amir from AVSforum dashed those dreams. Amir works directly for Microsoft, and was one of the lead people involved with the HD-DVD add-on unit, and explained in a recent post that the HDMI output for the 360 isn't meant for much more than video. Apparently it's some kind of hardware limitation with the 360. It seems that adding the ability to output lossless sound to the Xbox 360 Elite would have required a major re-working of the audio subsystem of the Xbox 360, and that it just wasn't worth it for MS to do that. He explained that the main reason for the HDMI output, was for people with 1080p TV's that lacked a VGA input that accepts 1080p. The Elite allows these people to see 1080p video via HDMI.


As a HD-DVD add-on owner myself, I'm very dissapointed with this bit of news. I'm very interested in hearing lossless sound in movies (and on certain PS3 games). I don't have a receiver that can handle lossless sound yet, but I'm planning on adding one in the very near future. I was hoping I would be able to hear lossless sound for both Blu Ray and HD-DVD movies, as well as certain PS3 games (Resistance, Lair). At this point, I'm thinking maybe I should sell my HD-DVD add on, and pick up a standalone HD-DVD player instead. I've heard some of the HD-DVD standalone players are going to get a pretty big price drop pretty soon. Well, I guess on the bright side, instead of spending unnecessary cash upgrading to the Elite, I can sell my HD-DVD add on, and add some money to that, and just get a standalone when the price drops.

Then, the doctor told me that BOTH my eyes were lazy! And that's why it was the best summer ever.

[Jumpman]

What's an X-box?

[Humongous Forum Troll]

What's an X-box?

Only someone as stupid as you, as stupid as that racist Fighter17, would not know.

[Wilford Brimley]

Ungrateful kids today...back in my day, we played with rocks and listened to our crystal sets and we liked it.

[gepeto]

Ungrateful kids today...back in my day, we played with rocks and listened to our crystal sets and we liked it.

Man wilford you have some of the funniest lines. This has made my day for sure By the way how is robert blake?

[nebrazca78]

So at first you claim: "As good as Dolby Digital 5.1 might sound, the lossless version of it sounds considerably improved."

Then you go on to say:" I'm very interested in hearing lossless sound in movies (and on certain PS3 games). I don't have a receiver that can handle lossless sound yet, but I'm planning on adding one in the very near future."

...which leads me to believe that

1- You've never heard lossless sound before, just taken the word of some "audiophiles" who think that wire color improves sound also.

2- You've heard lossless sound in an uncontrolled environment and have not really had a chance to see if it's better by giving yourself a double blind test with the help of a friend.

We know WAVs are better than AAC/MP3s. This issue is the same thing. Lossless will be better but boat is right, few will care about this. I mean c'mon, the masses listen to compressed music and don't know the difference (unless it's encoded at a low rate) or don't care.

Well, I spent all of that time reading the OP and you stole my reply. I will say that I enjoy having the option of lossless audio, but with modern lossy compression codecs it's not an issue at all if it's not there. What's next? Are people going to start bitching about wanting uncompressed video because AVC level 5.1 looks like utter shit all of a sudden?

It is an issue to audiophiles. But the percentage of people who belong to this group is low which is why it won't really matter. And yes, I've been bitching about compressed audio and video for a LONG time. I'm just happy they finally make a DVD player for my car that plays WAVs. Fuck off, MP3s.

[Jorpho]

We know WAVs are better than AAC/MP3s.

We do?

[nebrazca78]

We do?

Are you being sarcastic? Wavs are lossless and as far as I know AAC and MP3 are lossy codecs.

[Jorpho]

Are you being sarcastic? Wavs are lossless and as far as I know AAC and MP3 are lossy codecs.

Yes..? And you're telling me that you can always tell the difference between a WAV and a high-bitrate MP3 just by listening?

[jajaja]

Yes..? And you're telling me that you can always tell the difference between a WAV and a high-bitrate MP3 just by listening?

You do need the proper equipemnt for it. If you have like $20 headset or $100 speakers (like i have) you probly wont hear much difference. It also depends on the source of the sound of course. If you convert a mp3 to wav it wont sound better. But when you compress sound, you will always lose some quality. I wonder if its possible to have the exact same quality as the original source if you covert it to some other format, eventho its the same bitrate. I heard that you lose some quality when you convert.