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Thread: VGA rated NWC Gold cart on eBay

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    Quote Originally Posted by The 1 2 P View Post
    I wonder why it has no bids As for grading games, I have no problem with it. I don't buy graded games but I once got one graded just to experiment and it made a non-selling game(at $200) sell for more than three times what I was asking for it non-graded($650). And a recent check on ebay shows that graded games are indeed here to stay.
    I have to study the markets a bit more but I'm leaning towards having some items graded in the future just for resell purposes. If someone is willing to spend double or triple the going rate because I spent $20-30 (or whatever it is) to have the game professionally graded, more power to them and more power to my wallet.

    Maybe I should get some of my Genesis stuff graded and start asking outrageous prices for them.

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    Well, there's 20 minutes left if any last minute snipers out there are dumb enough to bite...

    So whenever a video game is graded, it is sealed away permanently encased in plastic forever? I thought typically only factory sealed games got this treatment. If it's CIB open, that would be a sad day indeed for people who actually buy games to PLAY them. Reminds me of Sleeping Beauty in the glass coffin, but no prince's kiss to ever rescue her...
    Last edited by stardust4ever; 04-24-2012 at 09:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stardust4ever View Post
    Well, there's 20 minutes left if any last minute snipers out there are dumb enough to bite...

    So whenever a video game is graded, it is sealed away permanently encased in plastic forever? I thought typically only factory sealed games got this treatment. If it's CIB open, that would be a sad day indeed for people who actually buy games to PLAY them. Reminds me of Sleeping Beauty in the glass coffin, but no prince's kiss to ever rescue her...
    From what I remember in the listing, the seller stated it could be removed from the case, put back together, and played.

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    I dont understand why people get so upset. Most people look at US like we are crazy for spending only $100 on old NES games that they think are crap? If someone wants to spend one million on the same thing we collect, just on a much higher level, how can you criticize them? The grading thing is split in every form of collecting, cards, Hot wheels and vintage toys. I think the thing that gets us mad about the grading is thats when you start to take a love for the hobby and make it about money. I have a huge vintage Transformers collection and I HATE when people say "wow, those are worth some money"
    I hate it!!!!!!!!!!!!! I collect mint in box but not mint in sealed box because I want to actually see the item inside. On the other hand, if you have an item so rare, it should be preserved the best way possible and that is to slab it. I have an Xmen #1 and I would be crazy not to slab it to keep it from deteriorating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LimitedEditionMuseum View Post
    I dont understand why people get so upset. Most people look at US like we are crazy for spending only $100 on old NES games that they think are crap? If someone wants to spend one million on the same thing we collect, just on a much higher level, how can you criticize them? The grading thing is split in every form of collecting, cards, Hot wheels and vintage toys. I think the thing that gets us mad about the grading is thats when you start to take a love for the hobby and make it about money. I have a huge vintage Transformers collection and I HATE when people say "wow, those are worth some money"
    I hate it!!!!!!!!!!!!! I collect mint in box but not mint in sealed box because I want to actually see the item inside. On the other hand, if you have an item so rare, it should be preserved the best way possible and that is to slab it. I have an Xmen #1 and I would be crazy not to slab it to keep it from deteriorating.
    I just strongly disagree that slabbing a game is the best way to preserve it. The reality is that unlike books or comics or baseball cards, video games are made of not only paper and cardboard, but plastic and metal. Those components by their very nature will deteriorate over time and actually begin to react with each other and break down. Shrink wrap is an even more serious problem because there is no known way to prevent it from breaking down, shrinking or deteriorating over time. So, while a comic book might be able to be preserved in nice condition for perhaps hundreds of years, a video game cannot be. As such, people paying outrageous amounts of money for graded games are investing in something that will not last a lifetime and has very little long term value unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonebone View Post
    I'd bet money it sells.
    Hope you didn't bet money, because it didn't sell.
    "And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    Played or played not the game itself cares not.
    This has to be my favorite DP quote of all time. Kudos, oh Jedi Game Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    Hardly counts. That was Golden Palace dot com who bought it just for the advertising of buying it.
    Yeah, and buying it was worth WAY more than $28k to them. Look, someone just mentioned Golden Palace dot com bought it. Go there and check it out!

    Actually, true story -- I was working as a tech at the time, and one of my co-workers heard about that piece of toast and bought virginmarytoast dot com or something like that and was planning on putting it up as a little joke site. Cost him I think $12.95. Shortly thereafter, the toast blew up the news media, and when GoldenPalace won the auction, they immediately contacted him to buy the name. I believe that he got $2000 for it too.

    You can't underestimate how much advertising something like that is worth to a company. And an online casino? It totally makes sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I just strongly disagree that slabbing a game is the best way to preserve it. The reality is that unlike books or comics or baseball cards, video games are made of not only paper and cardboard, but plastic and metal. Those components by their very nature will deteriorate over time and actually begin to react with each other and break down. Shrink wrap is an even more serious problem because there is no known way to prevent it from breaking down, shrinking or deteriorating over time. So, while a comic book might be able to be preserved in nice condition for perhaps hundreds of years, a video game cannot be. As such, people paying outrageous amounts of money for graded games are investing in something that will not last a lifetime and has very little long term value unfortunately.
    I beg to differ with you about the longevity of cartridges. The original NES and SNES carts will still be around long after the Wii/GC/Xbox/PS discs are old and so brittle that you cannot remove it from the case without cracking the disc. Atari 2600 carts from the 1977 launch still work, and the gray plastic of NES caes are just as robust. PCB boards are known to last even longer. Some of the earliest PCB components and logic chips ever manufactured still work. Same with transistor radios. Much of the CD and DVD media purchased even from as late as the 90s are already developing cracks around the spindle. these hairline cracks will slowly grow over time, even without handling, and once they reach the silver data layer, the disc will be rendered unreadable. So it is quite likely that the original game cartridges will outlast your latest Xbox360, Wii, and PS3 games. In 2050, all current gen games will be yellowed, cracked, cloudy plastic and entirely unplayable, yet retail NES carts (not protos) will continue work. Ever seen 30-year-old plexiglass? It's so yellow and cloudy you can't see through it. CDs, DVDs will be the same way.

    What I don't agree with about the VGA philosophy is sealing off the carts so that they cannot be played, and collecting for display or preservation only. Yes, opening and playing will devalue a sealed game, but not loose carts. While one could argue that action figures, etc are meant to be played with as well, with video games, it's all about the data on the cart; the box, manual, and cart label are just the icing on the cake. As an interactive media, it just doesn't make sense not to play them. It makes me wonder if video game collecting is at a similar state as baseball cards were in 1990. People used to pay huge amounts of money for trading cards, but now the hobby is mostly bust, and all but the rarest and oldest of cards have deflated in value the past ten years.

    I'm surprize with the economy the way it is, more people aren't selling off their collections. Most vintage collectables have devalued with the failing economy, yet NES collecting seems to be the one genre that has bucked the trend and gone up instead of down.

    EDIT: Nobody bought it. Go figure. Do it he right way and re-list it with a 99 cent minimum, and let the bid wars commence. For a BIN, $17,000 is a fair price, NOT $27,000!
    Last edited by stardust4ever; 04-24-2012 at 11:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I just strongly disagree that slabbing a game is the best way to preserve it.
    Unless those cases are filled with argon gas I doubt they'll help preserve anything except by keeping people from touching them with their grubby hands. If there's air in the case, it will continue to slowly deteriorate. Cases and comic bags just help with handling them better, you just want those to be acid free so they won't assist in the degradation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stardust4ever View Post
    It makes me wonder if video game collecting is at a similar state as baseball cards were in 1990. People used to pay huge amounts of money for trading cards, but now the hobby is mostly bust, and all but the rarest and oldest of cards have deflated in value the past ten years.
    Card collecting got into what it is because they grossly, grossly overproduced most of the cards in the 90s, and then sold them to "collectors" as an investment that they were meant to sell in ten or so years for tons of money. Card companies started producing too many sets, and people caught on that they weren't rare, and everyone started dumping inventory.

    When that died out, card companies started producing cards that had to be extremely rare to get people interested again -- like "hey, this contains part of a base, and we're only making 100 of them!!" or something. It has sort of worked, enough that now Panini and Topps have both reintroduced really cheap sets of cards to try to get kids interested in collecting them again.

    It was when card collecting when from hobby to investment that the trouble began, and it cost a ton of card companies their business.

    Game collecting definitely doesn't follow the same trend. I don't know anyone who was buying tons of NES games back in the day because Nintendo was promising that in 10 years they could get hundreds of bucks for them. They produced what there was demand for.
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    I'm sorry, but "much" of the CD and DVD media purchased from the 90s on is cracking? That's not even close to accurate. I have many CDs from the dawn of audio compact discs in the 80s and none of them are brittle and cracking as you describe. While there are certainly examples of CDs and other optical media that go bad over the years (and there are plenty of sites that list the well known culprit discs as they tended to be from particular print runs or batches), there are also plenty of cartridges that have gone bad. My point was that none of this stuff was designed to last for decades and certainly with many game cartridges now pushing 40 years old, it's unlikely that sticking them in a plastic shell (which has air holes by the way if you're talking about a VGA case) is going to somehow preserve them forever. Air pollution, moisture and humidity, light, odor, mold, vermin and all manner of other factors destroy plastic, paper and cardboard over time. Similarly, very few people are having loose cartridges graded. In fact, I don't even think VGA will do that unless the game was originally sold that way.

    I could care less about the argument regarding games being just for playing. People are free to collect games in whatever way they want. Some people derive enjoyment and nostalgia from owning sealed games. That's cool. Some people want to play their games and have no interest in boxes or instructions. That's cool too. None of that changes the fact that every one of these cartridges and discs will fail at some point regardless of whether you stick them in a plastic case or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by stardust4ever View Post
    I beg to differ with you about the longevity of cartridges. The original NES and SNES carts will still be around long after the Wii/GC/Xbox/PS discs are old and so brittle that you cannot remove it from the case without cracking the disc. Atari 2600 carts from the 1977 launch still work, and the gray plastic of NES caes are just as robust. PCB boards are known to last even longer. Some of the earliest PCB components and logic chips ever manufactured still work. Same with transistor radios. Much of the CD and DVD media purchased even from as late as the 90s are already developing cracks around the spindle. these hairline cracks will slowly grow over time, even without handling, and once they reach the silver data layer, the disc will be rendered unreadable. So it is quite likely that the original game cartridges will outlast your latest Xbox360, Wii, and PS3 games. In 2050, all current gen games will be yellowed, cracked, cloudy plastic and entirely unplayable, yet retail NES carts (not protos) will continue work. Ever seen 30-year-old plexiglass? It's so yellow and cloudy you can't see through it. CDs, DVDs will be the same way.

    What I don't agree with about the VGA philosophy is sealing off the carts so that they cannot be played, and collecting for display or preservation only. Yes, opening and playing will devalue a sealed game, but not loose carts. While one could argue that action figures, etc are meant to be played with as well, with video games, it's all about the data on the cart; the box, manual, and cart label are just the icing on the cake. As an interactive media, it just doesn't make sense not to play them. It makes me wonder if video game collecting is at a similar state as baseball cards were in 1990. People used to pay huge amounts of money for trading cards, but now the hobby is mostly bust, and all but the rarest and oldest of cards have deflated in value the past ten years.

    I'm surprize with the economy the way it is, more people aren't selling off their collections. Most vintage collectables have devalued with the failing economy, yet NES collecting seems to be the one genre that has bucked the trend and gone up instead of down.

    EDIT: Nobody bought it. Go figure. Do it he right way and re-list it with a 99 cent minimum, and let the bid wars commence. For a BIN, $17,000 is a fair price, NOT $27,000!

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    For the price you could literally buy every other existing NES title, all the European exclusive releases, and probably the vast majority of Famicom carts except for maybe a Gold Rockman 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaruff View Post
    From what I remember in the listing, the seller stated it could be removed from the case, put back together, and played.
    Yeah, if you smash it with a hammer. I call those things coffins for a reason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I'm sorry, but "much" of the CD and DVD media purchased from the 90s on is cracking? That's not even close to accurate. I have many CDs from the dawn of audio compact discs in the 80s and none of them are brittle and cracking as you describe. While there are certainly examples of CDs and other optical media that go bad over the years (and there are plenty of sites that list the well known culprit discs as they tended to be from particular print runs or batches), there are also plenty of cartridges that have gone bad. My point was that none of this stuff was designed to last for decades and certainly with many game cartridges now pushing 40 years old, it's unlikely that sticking them in a plastic shell (which has air holes by the way if you're talking about a VGA case) is going to somehow preserve them forever. Air pollution, moisture and humidity, light, odor, mold, vermin and all manner of other factors destroy plastic, paper and cardboard over time. Similarly, very few people are having loose cartridges graded. In fact, I don't even think VGA will do that unless the game was originally sold that way.
    Agreed. Data loss occurs in a variety of ways, and certainly some discs will end up dying before their advertised time, but I'm looking at a CD from 1994 right now that works as well as the day I bought it. Optical media (we're talking about factory manufactured optical media: burned discs are a different story) is a pretty long lasting format.

    The moral of the story is: take care of your shit and it won't die.

    To clarify my point on the NWC cart's value: I could care less about how this idiot chooses to treat his property, except that he had the scrotum to dismantle it in a way that clearly hastens its decay, and THEN tried to sell it for what people seem to agree is ten thousand dollars more than the value of a non-wrecked copy. He did this with his chest thrust out proudly. That's nutty behavior for someone who clearly collects rare video games and understands their value. It makes no sense.

    From some of the replies, it seems that my idea of what constitutes value in a game is different than others, and even if that weren't true, I communicated my opinion poorly. From my perspective, the cart is only worth it's asking price if it's whole and functional. I don't buy a luxury sports car and pay ten thousand dollars more than the price of a road-ready model because the previous owner took out the engine and tastefully arranged the components in a shadow box. I don't do this because the car no longer functions. It's worth LESS THAN A WORKING CAR. That analogy gets worse when it's a classic Mustang. Car nuts would freak out.

    If two people were each selling a gold NWC cart, and one of them doesn't boot, it would sell for less money. Significantly less, I'd be willing to bet. This is because it's less than whole. It's broken. It no longer fulfills it's function. End of story. This guy took a rare, valuable cart, and did damage to it, and then tried selling it for thirty percent more than the value of a whole cart, and he justified this by saying that it's been "preserved". That's also crazy.

    No one bought it. Next time, champ, try selling the cart without the slab, screwed together, and provably functioning. I bet your cart sells that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Really, which game? Was there something unique about the case or some other reason someone would pay that much money for something that is now just a lump of plastic and other parts?
    It was a Donkey Kong Competition prototype cart that was in a case similar to that of the SNES Campus Challenge. I was contacted by a member of Atari Age when the game wasn't even being advertised for sale. He must be a big fan of either Donkey Kong, SNES, prototypes, or comp carts. Whatever the reason, I wasn't about to turn down that type of money for a paperweight.

    You mentioned in a previous post that you've seen non-working prototypes sell for next to nothing in the past. Do you happen to recall any of those sale or have any links to such sales? I'm just curious as I don't know of any such prototype sale in recent history, and I tend to be pretty active in those type of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie_Says_Relax View Post
    Hope you didn't bet money, because it didn't sell.
    I tried, but it didn't seem like he was confident enough to take me up on it :P

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    So, for those who buy/sell rare carts of this caliber, when an auction like this goes up with a price like this, and it ends up not selling, does it negatively affect the market value/perception of value the same way that a completed auction at a high price does?
    "And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie_Says_Relax View Post
    So, for those who buy/sell rare carts of this caliber, when an auction like this goes up with a price like this, and it ends up not selling, does it negatively affect the market value/perception of value the same way that a completed auction at a high price does?
    It shouldn't have much of an effect either way as it was listed just this one time unsuccessfully. It's when it gets listed over, and over, and over again that the perceived value starts taking a beating. The best example of this is when seller *Feedback* continually relisted his sealed copy of Stadium Events at foolishly high prices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Boobie View Post
    If two people were each selling a gold NWC cart, and one of them doesn't boot, it would sell for less money. Significantly less, I'd be willing to bet. This is because it's less than whole. It's broken. It no longer fulfills it's function. End of story.
    What happens when that broken NWC is fixed? The data was dumped long ago so nothing is lost when the cart dies. The original EPROM can be desoldered, reprogrammed, and then put back. Someone good at soldering can do that without anyone being able to tell.

    Eventually all the NWCs, all protos, all repros, and almost all NES unlicensed games will be dead. How they are cared for makes little difference. Unless the carts are regularly dumped and verified nobody knows how many are already losing data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggyx View Post
    I tried, but it didn't seem like he was confident enough to take me up on it :P
    Because you both apparently can't read.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonebone
    If someone put an NWC Gold up for $27k in it's normal shell in Very Good cosmetic shape and with screenshots verifying it's working order, I'd bet money it sells.
    I said IF someone put an NWC Gold up for sale without all of this display case nonsense, then it could probably sell for $27k. The price isn't bad, it's just that this display has obviously reduced the buyer pool.
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