Edge reports durango to block used games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PROTOTYPE]

My take? Saturday was in gamestop and Pick up Quake 4 mint condition with bonus CD For $4.49! You tell me why they want to kill the used game market? That don't count the game sharing and illegal downloading.That is costing them tons of money.I don't like where this is going but for this hobby to survive it will have no choice. We have only to look at ours selfs for all this.Also we use to have a lot more money to waste on games, not anymore.[ recession ] They really don't care about people who don't buy new, so cry all you want. To me, saw it coming with on-line gaming.Will I buy download games only? I already did, but the game has to me something I really want to play and you will to unless its GAME OVER.

[Zthun]

How about this idea. Maybe Microsoft isn't killing used games all together. We all know about online passes and how they function. Maybe this one time use activation code can be generated at a store like gamestop just like how they generate activation codes and other dlc. Maybe Microsoft will build a contract with gamestop to publish new paid for activation codes on your receipt when you buy a used game. I really don't think Microsoft can really thrive by eliminating the #1 retailer in the world for games and consoles. Microsoft would loose a huge chunk of system sales by doing this also because gamestop then wouldn't sell the new console. They also wouldn't just eliminate the number of console sales but sales like dlc, Microsoft points, and every other accessory for the system like headsets and controllers. Sure you can go else where to buy but you can't beat the availability of a gamestop on every corner.


Lastly I think that edge report generated their own suspicion on used games by the always on Internet. My thought of this was all for piracy. To constantly have a check on your console and immediate eliminate any threat of a mod. This is just an advancement that future technology brings. Company's now always want to know what your doing at all times. It's simple marketing.


This was just my thoughts on this situation. My final opinion though is that the chances of no more used games is slim to none.

Walmart, Target, BestBuy, KMart, Cosco...all of these stores are just as readily available as Gamestop. Gamestop is great for used games and used console systems, and you can find some real great deals sometimes on them, but it's nothing magical to buy new there. The costs are the same as the other stores; plus, the other stores have better policies when it comes to new games. People would just move on to other stores to buy their games.

[RyanMurf]

Walmart, Target, BestBuy, KMart, Cosco...all of these stores are just as readily available as Gamestop. Gamestop is great for used games and used console systems, and you can find some real great deals sometimes on them, but it's nothing magical to buy new there. The costs are the same as the other stores; plus, the other stores have better policies when it comes to new games. People would just move on to other stores to buy their games.

Totally agree with you here. But the amount of gamestops per town don't even come close to the amount of single location Walmarts, targets, Costco.....especially, and kmarts. Just would be anywhere near as convenient anymore.

[Tupin]

Don't know about anyone else, but I think that if a company announced that their console didn't play used games, Gamestop would refuse to carry it or carry much less.

They're the largest retailer of both new and used games. A lot of their profit comes from the latter. I'd imagine they have quite a lot of power over companies simply by choosing not to carry certain things.

[Griking]

Don't know about anyone else, but I think that if a company announced that their console didn't play used games, Gamestop would refuse to carry it or carry much less.

They're the largest retailer of both new and used games. A lot of their profit comes from the latter. I'd imagine they have quite a lot of power over companies simply by choosing not to carry certain things.

If Microsoft and Sony really are looking to kill off used games I'm pretty sure that they weren't expecting full support from Gamestop.

There's plenty of other retailers where you can buy a new console and games.

[Tupin]

Wal-Mart, Toys R Us, Best Buy, K-Mart and many other stores now sell used games, because it is pure profit for them.

I don't know how they'll manage to convince these stores it's worth stocking their product when they break a source of income these stores have been relying on for a very long time.

[The 1 2 P]

I did buy games like Black Ops II for multiplayer though, but waiting for a used copy to show up cheap really puts you behind in the game; it's one of those titles that you're better off playing online on day one, or you'll end up being outclassed on the battlefield by players with all of the added gear.

I also buy my Black Ops versions of COD used(and the Modern Warfare versions new) so I can relate. But the trick is to not jump right into deathmatch multiplayer when you get the game. Take some time to learn the adjusted/newly tweaked controls by first going thru the campaign or playing online multiplayer modes that don't focus strictly on killing such as capture the flag and domination. If you simply must jump right into deathmatch then do free for all. That way it will be a much more leveled playing field since you won't have to worry about being team killed and you can get a fair amount of kills while others are battling each other, regardless of what gear you have so far.

[WCP]

I always wonder how Steam and PC gaming in general doesn't have to deal with so many people being angry about the fact that you can't rent or sell PC games.


When I first got back to PC gaming (Spring 2010), it was a bit of culture shock for me. I actually went to Craigslist and bought a few used PC games. I got Civ 4 and COD4. Civ 4 worked fine, but COD4 woudln't work, because it was tied to a Steam account. At the time, I was such a newb regarding PC gaming, that I had no idea that buying used PC games was a very bad idea. I just assumed it was like anything else.

It didn't take me too long to realize that digital downloads was the way to go. I'm normally pretty anti-digital download anything, but what I ultimately realized was that it had more to do with price than anything. You start to price something low enough, and I don't care that I really don't own it. I know it's sad to say such a thing, but it's the God's honest truth. I have to be real and admit the fact that it ultimately boils down to money.

I know that we are basically only "leasing" the games for a certain period of time, and that our rights to the games are extremely limited, but at the same time, when I only paid $5 for the thing, it's pretty hard for me to really get all hot and bothered about the whole ownership issue. I look at it more like an extended rental. I recently got Crysis 2, when Origin had it on sale for 5 bucks. Yes, I know that I don't own that game. I know that I can't let a friend borrow it. I know that my rights to that game are virtually non existent.

Did I mention it was 5 bucks ?


See, that's the thing. Just think of it as a rental. It can be a pretty long, extended rental, but that's pretty much what it is. I would never pay $40 or $50 or even $30 to rent a game, so I don't even consider my games until they are in the $20 or lower range. Normally I don't even consider them unless they are under 10 bucks, and 90 percent of what I buy is $5. Certainly, I'm talking about Steam, GamersGate, Green Man Gaming and Amazon Digital Downloads. I know that when Microsoft and Sony truly enter into this restricted world, they aren't going to be pricing things anywhere as cheap. For example, that Crysis 2 game that I got for $5. I don't think Microsoft or Sony would want a game like that going for only 5 bucks. Maybe eventually, when the thing is like 4 or 5 years old, but it just isn't in their DNA to ever price AAA games so cheaply.

However, if Microsoft and Sony were to think of trying the extreme sales that Steam and Amazon do, then just maybe, just maybe, some of us that are extremely patient, won't really give a damn about it, because if you look at all the PC gamers out there, they don't seem to be bothered by this scenario. I know the argument might be that 60 percent of them are pirating all their games, so that's why they don't care. I'm not so sure if that is true or not, but I do know that there are quite a few PC gamers like me that don't pirate stuff, and we still don't really care too much about our lack of rights.

It all comes down to money...

[danawhitaker]

I always wonder how Steam and PC gaming in general doesn't have to deal with so many people being angry about the fact that you can't rent or sell PC games.


When I first got back to PC gaming (Spring 2010), it was a bit of culture shock for me. I actually went to Craigslist and bought a few used PC games. I got Civ 4 and COD4. Civ 4 worked fine, but COD4 woudln't work, because it was tied to a Steam account. At the time, I was such a newb regarding PC gaming, that I had no idea that buying used PC games was a very bad idea. I just assumed it was like anything else.

It didn't take me too long to realize that digital downloads was the way to go. I'm normally pretty anti-digital download anything, but what I ultimately realized was that it had more to do with price than anything. You start to price something low enough, and I don't care that I really don't own it. I know it's sad to say such a thing, but it's the God's honest truth. I have to be real and admit the fact that it ultimately boils down to money.

I know that we are basically only "leasing" the games for a certain period of time, and that our rights to the games are extremely limited, but at the same time, when I only paid $5 for the thing, it's pretty hard for me to really get all hot and bothered about the whole ownership issue. I look at it more like an extended rental. I recently got Crysis 2, when Origin had it on sale for 5 bucks. Yes, I know that I don't own that game. I know that I can't let a friend borrow it. I know that my rights to that game are virtually non existent.

Did I mention it was 5 bucks ?


See, that's the thing. Just think of it as a rental. It can be a pretty long, extended rental, but that's pretty much what it is. I would never pay $40 or $50 or even $30 to rent a game, so I don't even consider my games until they are in the $20 or lower range. Normally I don't even consider them unless they are under 10 bucks, and 90 percent of what I buy is $5. Certainly, I'm talking about Steam, GamersGate, Green Man Gaming and Amazon Digital Downloads. I know that when Microsoft and Sony truly enter into this restricted world, they aren't going to be pricing things anywhere as cheap. For example, that Crysis 2 game that I got for $5. I don't think Microsoft or Sony would want a game like that going for only 5 bucks. Maybe eventually, when the thing is like 4 or 5 years old, but it just isn't in their DNA to ever price AAA games so cheaply.

However, if Microsoft and Sony were to think of trying the extreme sales that Steam and Amazon do, then just maybe, just maybe, some of us that are extremely patient, won't really give a damn about it, because if you look at all the PC gamers out there, they don't seem to be bothered by this scenario. I know the argument might be that 60 percent of them are pirating all their games, so that's why they don't care. I'm not so sure if that is true or not, but I do know that there are quite a few PC gamers like me that don't pirate stuff, and we still don't really care too much about our lack of rights.

It all comes down to money...

It all comes down to money - and consoles aren't going to be as bargain bin as PC gaming is. If I pay $350+ for a device that only plays games (not a PC that I use for many different functions), I expect to be able to use that physical device on my terms, especially if those games cost at least $60. And I certainly don't want to buy a game at launch and then twiddle my thumbs until games (maybe) go to bargain bin prices. Now, if they offered a flat monthly fee for access to the entire game library for the console, that might be different (sort of like how Club Pogo works for most of its games). I probably still wouldn't buy the console, but I could see it being an appealing option and probably cheaper than buying every individual game you want. I've noticed a bit of a disturbing trend like that with recent PS3 console relases. The pack-in games are often digital only, or you get stuff with a PSN+ subscription for a year instead and then your access is revoked. I won't even argue that most of the PC gamers are pirating their stuff. I think there's something that's happened with people under the age of about 45 now (not all of them, because I'm 31, and I know plenty of people under that age too who are opposed to these ideas) that are willing to accept corporations enslaving their entertainment content behind all kinds of gates.

But I shouldn't be surprised with this mentality either. This is the same generation that has forgotten things like the VCR ever existed and that's willing to fork over $15-20 a month to their cable or satellite provider for a glorified VCR with a hard drive. See, I'm not into the rental/lease model at all. Either I "own" it, or I don't want it. And if I'm feeling like I'm getting ripped off, well, there are about 18,000 other console games out there from all generations that I can play instead. That would keep me entertained for decades.

The problem is that I suspect the model they'll push will never have those digital downloads (especially for AAA titles) at any significantly discounted cost, despite the fact that they'll claim that method is cheaper and easier than physical distribution. They argue that, but then you see the prices end up being identical for the physical copy and the digital copy. So would it really be any better cost-wise? I guess I don't have much faith in the corporations involved.

[scaleworm]

I say Fuck 'em.
I have enough great games, many of which I have not had the time to play let alone play through to worry about next gen anything. I have more than enough to support my own family and theirs, into the future.

I get all of my gear second or third hand anyway.

Think about it. Except for a new characters or "stories" (NONE) ALL of the genres already exist. ALL of them.
How many Platformers, Puzzlers, Figters, first/third person shooters, Shumps, or RPGS do we all already own? Realistically the stories are all the same. There has been nothing new in a very long time, as far as I am concerned.

I have been in this for a long time, since Pong's launch, and I see NO NEED to worry my long grey hair over what Sony, Nintendo, or MS (the EVIL empire, just north of my abode) plan on doing to the masses in the future.

I have thousands of games, thousands of LPs, too many systems, and seriously killer electronics to support them all.

I will sit in my room, warm, nourished, musically and gamerly content while i watch the world of digital Hell around me burn.....

Fuck 'Em!

...As to the metal-oriented gentleman in angry guy mode in the video posted, I think what he said is valid, clear, and justified. I think him a well spoken young man with a very valid argument.

[IHatedSega]

You know, I hadnt even heard of this site before, I just listened to it because of Kotaku. Maybe this wont happen, but Kinect using a censor to see how many people are in the room when you watched things and charging you for unauthorized people, makes this sound real to me. I wonder if itll also scan for others while playing games? Thatll end them being used at conventions for dancing games.

[LordsOfSkulls]

As someone who has been using Steam for nearly 10 years to buy new games, nor makes a habit of trading games in, I don't really see a particular problem with this. What all this anti-used game trend seems to be geared to is pushing players to buying digital downloads over physical media. Because undoubtedly the NEXT general will be discless. So you better get used to it.

See the problem is that Steam is Awesome... but technically speaking it is Used games.. (But Developers will get Some Profit out Of It)

It just one filed copied 1000s of times. and Sold. Their no difference between Steam's user copies other than randomly generated CD Keys. You cant steam games are "Brand New, Like New, Very Good" cause this dont exist.


They also sale alot of their games for prices even lower than USED Games go anywere on the market. While i dont mind seeing prices to get that low to get money to the developers for brand new games... problem is the Middle Man "Best buy/Gamestop/Wal-Mart/Ebay/Amazon/Glyde, etc etc etc"

Wont make any money thus unable to run their business.

Especially during Summer/Christmas for Steam their are Sales... that can get you off brand new games 30-77% off.. that is HUGE. I got over 100s of Video Games on Steam just because how cheap it was... I spend over $500 for $3000+ worth of GAmes in last 2 years. That is something that even "Used Game Market" will never be able to do.

So if developers want more money, and want people to buy brand new copies more, lower the prices, put that price tag of "39.99 and 49.99" You dont need the Eye Candy people are tired of the Eye Candy.... They want the Awesome Taste (Gameplay) cause that what it all about, not Just to Look Good, But to taste good as well.... (Reason why people ignore Cherry Falvor and go for stuff like Apple/Blueberry)

Is what costing the developers most money/time. PS2/PS1/SNES era is still considered one of best Eras because we didnt have DLC, we didnt have that many games that were 2-8 hours long, we gotten more worthy product/better quality on those systems than any today. We have too many companies go for clones, cause they still sell well.. If your tired of COD... dont buy it religiuesly everyone of them that comes out each year.

Not to mention games lose money now so fast... that $59.99 game especially if it a AAA title will get 10% to 50% price cut within next 1-3 months. (makes it even worse for consumer + angry cause they buy the game for $65 and later in 31 days goes on sale for $33 and you lose money

[Zthun]

I always wonder how Steam and PC gaming in general doesn't have to deal with so many people being angry about the fact that you can't rent or sell PC games.


When I first got back to PC gaming (Spring 2010), it was a bit of culture shock for me. I actually went to Craigslist and bought a few used PC games. I got Civ 4 and COD4. Civ 4 worked fine, but COD4 woudln't work, because it was tied to a Steam account. At the time, I was such a newb regarding PC gaming, that I had no idea that buying used PC games was a very bad idea. I just assumed it was like anything else.

It didn't take me too long to realize that digital downloads was the way to go. I'm normally pretty anti-digital download anything, but what I ultimately realized was that it had more to do with price than anything. You start to price something low enough, and I don't care that I really don't own it. I know it's sad to say such a thing, but it's the God's honest truth. I have to be real and admit the fact that it ultimately boils down to money.

I know that we are basically only "leasing" the games for a certain period of time, and that our rights to the games are extremely limited, but at the same time, when I only paid $5 for the thing, it's pretty hard for me to really get all hot and bothered about the whole ownership issue. I look at it more like an extended rental. I recently got Crysis 2, when Origin had it on sale for 5 bucks. Yes, I know that I don't own that game. I know that I can't let a friend borrow it. I know that my rights to that game are virtually non existent.

Did I mention it was 5 bucks ?


See, that's the thing. Just think of it as a rental. It can be a pretty long, extended rental, but that's pretty much what it is. I would never pay $40 or $50 or even $30 to rent a game, so I don't even consider my games until they are in the $20 or lower range. Normally I don't even consider them unless they are under 10 bucks, and 90 percent of what I buy is $5. Certainly, I'm talking about Steam, GamersGate, Green Man Gaming and Amazon Digital Downloads. I know that when Microsoft and Sony truly enter into this restricted world, they aren't going to be pricing things anywhere as cheap. For example, that Crysis 2 game that I got for $5. I don't think Microsoft or Sony would want a game like that going for only 5 bucks. Maybe eventually, when the thing is like 4 or 5 years old, but it just isn't in their DNA to ever price AAA games so cheaply.

However, if Microsoft and Sony were to think of trying the extreme sales that Steam and Amazon do, then just maybe, just maybe, some of us that are extremely patient, won't really give a damn about it, because if you look at all the PC gamers out there, they don't seem to be bothered by this scenario. I know the argument might be that 60 percent of them are pirating all their games, so that's why they don't care. I'm not so sure if that is true or not, but I do know that there are quite a few PC gamers like me that don't pirate stuff, and we still don't really care too much about our lack of rights.

It all comes down to money...

Steam is awesome because it is tied to an account, not a piece of hardware. Steam can transcend generations of hardware. If I want to upgrade to a newer, faster PC, I can do that, and have the exact same steam account and games on it. If, however, my games are tied to a console system, once that system no longer has support, all the games you bought are worthless. Even though the company is still in business, they've essentially told you that they will not let you play what you've purchased anymore.

$5, or $60 dollars, the major issues is that there is no preservation with this model. At least with some of the indie games on steam, there are DRM free copies so even if Valve went kaput, at least some of the games that I've bought through humble bundle will allow me to play them at a later date.

There are still SNES, playstation, PS2, and Gamecube games that I will play with friends. Future preservation is personally important to me and I know that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[WCP]

Especially during Summer/Christmas for Steam their are Sales... that can get you off brand new games 30-77% off.. that is HUGE. I got over 100s of Video Games on Steam just because how cheap it was... I spend over $500 for $3000+ worth of GAmes in last 2 years. That is something that even "Used Game Market" will never be able to do.

The only problem, is that Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo aren't going to ever have such drastic sales on their flagpole games. It's just not going to happen. With Steam, (or PC gaming in general), you're losing tons of unauthorized rights (ability to trade, sell, give to cousin) , and you're gaining the ability to get triple A games for dirt cheap if you're willing to wait long enough. When Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo eventually all go download only, we will loose all those unauthorized rights that we took for granted, but we really aren't going to be gaining much of anything. We aren't ever going to see the crazy kinds of prices that show up on Steam and Green Man Gaming and Amazon, etc.


Even more worrisome, is that if Steam starts getting "too" big, with the whole Steam Box thing, the days of the 80 percent off sales might be gone as well. I personally believe that the Steam sales that we currently enjoy, aren't going to be around forever. The sales will still be there, but the discounts won't be as drastic. (if Steam's popularity explodes).

[The Adventurer]

Steam has the advantage of being A) a third party distribution hub, and B) Pretty Altruistic when it comes to their own content. The sales are a good sign of strong competition in the video game field, as publishers and developers are jockeying for more sales. With Valve brokering and negotiating the deals.

Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft will be handling their distribution systems in house. So there is practically no incentive to pass huge deals on to consumers because they control the supply and the platforms. Which is quite worrying actually.

[GhostDog]

Sony better see what Microsoft is doing and not go that route. Sony even said they're waiting to see what Microsoft is doing with their new system before making their move. Well, Sony, now you see and don't make the same mistake.

[LordsOfSkulls]

what awesome about Steam is they get the developers wanting to put their games from different companies under their service........... so they are not under no one shoes like microsoft/nintendo or sony if you start arguing with them they just ignore you and be like w/e and are not going to bag you to put it thru them.

= Bad idea cause that were most PC population is now... and most of them refuse to use any other programs similar to Steam. (Myself Included)

Reason why i still dont have Battlefield 3 ;p

[Griking]

I always wonder how Steam and PC gaming in general doesn't have to deal with so many people being angry about the fact that you can't rent or sell PC games.

I think that we pretty much accepted the fact that piracy was too easy under those circumstances and that not allowing the sale of used games was a necessary inconvenience. Sure, piracy is easy without used games but there's no reason to make it even easier.

Also, its hard to complain about not being able to resell a used game that I bought for $2.99-$5.00 on Steam.

[WCP]

I think that we pretty much accepted the fact that piracy was too easy under those circumstances and that not allowing the sale of used games was a necessary inconvenience.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by that ? I'm not sure what you're implying about a relation between piracy and used games..

[danawhitaker]

Can you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by that ? I'm not sure what you're implying about a relation between piracy and used games..

I think I get what's being implied. Games have shifted to an always-online/internet-required activation system instead of being the way they were back when I was in high school. You'd buy a game, it would have a key (maybe), but you didn't have to be online to authenticate that key. And then, when you were done playing that game, you could sell it, give it away, etc, and someone else could still play it with that same key. Now, that's not piracy by itself (if the original owner removes the game from their system, that is) - but we gave up our freedom to do that when we shifted to the always-online or activation that requires connecting to servers somewhere. And then that activation can only be used once, or, like with Steam, that purchase is forever tied to your account and you can never give or loan that copy out. The game companies found that requiring the CD to be in the computer wasn't enough of a deterrent, so they took it a step further. Even I looked for no-CD cracks for games that I legitimately had paid for because I hated tying up my drive.

Personally, that's *a* reason (not the only reason, but a reason) I have shifted away from PC gaming. I loved the Sim City series of games, for instance, but I want no part of the new always-online component. As much as I'd love to play the game, I will be passing it up. I played Diablo 3 since I got it for free, but I loathed the always-online component of that too. I have cable internet, it's not that that's a problem, I just don't like game companies breathing down my neck making me feel like a freaking criminal just for installing the game and having the audacity to want to play it without being connected to the internet.

I personally don't think the sacrifice was worth it. I remember, way back in the day, when someone mentioned to me he felt like he was on an electronic leash. That's how I feel now. I buy something, I take it into my home, and I can't even use it without phoning home to the company I bought it from to prove I got it legitimately.