Is there really that big of a difference between S-Video and RGB on SNES?

[Informationator]

I have one of the purple monster cable S-Video connectors. As much as people hate Monster (and they're not entirely unjustified), I believe their S-Video connector is the best. The S-video screenshots in my above post were taken while I was using that cable.

[jwmollman]

I've heard that a lot of the 'no name' generic brand ones are garbage, so I wanted to try finding a nintendo brand (1st party) one.

I bit the bullet and tried a third-party S-Video cable from Amazon, and it actually works great. The colors are very vibrant and I notice a big difference. I mentioned it here.

[chrisbid]

I have a question, are you saying your setup went like this?

X Game Console - Scart - Scart Switchbox - Scart Output -Scart Converter - Component - TV

I honestly didn't know they made just switchboxes for Scart and if its cheap and works I would like to do something similar with my settup. It would largely eliminate the back and forth between different cable settups for different games.

yes, that is the setup. the one issue is the scart > component adapter does not have audio, so i found a switchbox with an additional av port to use for audio. the switch box isnt too expensive, i believe it was around 12 dollars.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/scart-multiw...h-switch-43158

i have the 5-way (one port is an AV in) version with the additional a/v output

[substantial_snake]

yes, that is the setup. the one issue is the scart > component adapter does not have audio, so i found a switchbox with an additional av port to use for audio. the switch box isnt too expensive, i believe it was around 12 dollars.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/scart-multiw...h-switch-43158

i have the 5-way (one port is an AV in) version with the additional a/v output

Ok, I think I see what you did here.

Then all you used was a set of audio cables for the A/V output and it would switch the sound to whatever selected Scart input you were using at the time? This seems deceptively simple and easy...like I am somehow missing something. lol

[chrisbid]

the concept/flow chart is simple, but the mess of cables certainly isnt

[Drixxel]

yes, that is the setup. the one issue is the scart > component adapter does not have audio, so i found a switchbox with an additional av port to use for audio. the switch box isnt too expensive, i believe it was around 12 dollars.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/scart-multiw...h-switch-43158

i have the 5-way (one port is an AV in) version with the additional a/v output

chrisbid, do you notice any loss of picture quality by using that switch box versus connecting a console directly to your component video converter? I encountered a discussion of SCART switch boxes on Segasaturn.co.uk and there was some concern that push button switchers don't do as good a job at isolating the individual SCART sockets, potentially resulting in noise when multiple devices are connected. The audio out jacks on the switcher you linked to make it pretty appealing, hopefully there's no such signal muckery going on with it.

[chrisbid]

i havent noticed, but i havent extensively tested it either

i would imagine the degradation would be the same as using a component, s-video, or composite switchbox. ive noticed a far bigger degradation by using crappy cables, than i have with a switchbox. im sure there are videophiles out there that can scientifically measure how good a signal is and show how much degradation a switchbox produces. but the leap in quality especially for the genesis and neo geo far outpaces any loss a switchbox is responsible for.

funny story on auto switches, my friend had an automatic scart convertor, and it would strangely power up other consoles attached to it, and then it would get a weird mixed signal. it couldve been a faulty box, but "signal muckery" (awesome term, btw) was the norm with the auto switchbox.

[Drixxel]

but the leap in quality especially for the genesis and neo geo far outpaces any loss a switchbox is responsible for.

That's an excellent point - it's fairly pointless sweating over a loss of picture quality that would be largely imperceptible when you're experiencing that jump from composite to converted RGB, but at the same time, it's nice to know that the switcher itself is doing a good job. When I decide to take the RGB plunge, I'll keep those switch boxes from Maplin in mind, they do seem pretty classy.

There was unanimous support for a MadCatz SCART switch box in that thread I linked to in my last post. The main distinction with the MadCatz swticher is that, rather than push button selectors, it features a sliding switch which is, apparently, the superior mechanism for the noble act of signal preservation.

http://www.consolesandgadgets.com/ca...or-p-1954.html

No convenient audio out on that one, though.

[Pedro Lambrini]

This may sound obvious but the biggest boost to old console pictures won't be seen without a good CRT. I have most of my consoles running on RGB and the difference isn't that great on a cheap Mitsubishi TV I have in the bedroom and the picture looks terrible on my LCD telly.

On the other hand, when I run any of my consoles in RGB on my Panasonic CRT the improvement is astounding. Sharp, crisp and vibrant, all my consoles look much, much nicer.

I can't stress enough the importance of CRT for old consoles. Afterall, they were designed around this technology and some systems/games even rely on things like raster scanning etc for smoothing, extra colours and special effects.

In short, buy a good quality RGB telly or monitor (I recommend Panasonic or Sony) and decent RGB cables.

[chrisbid]

This may sound obvious but the biggest boost to old console pictures won't be seen without a good CRT. I have most of my consoles running on RGB and the difference isn't that great on a cheap Mitsubishi TV I have in the bedroom and the picture looks terrible on my LCD telly.

On the other hand, when I run any of my consoles in RGB on my Panasonic CRT the improvement is astounding. Sharp, crisp and vibrant, all my consoles look much, much nicer.

I can't stress enough the importance of CRT for old consoles. Afterall, they were designed around this technology and some systems/games even rely on things like raster scanning etc for smoothing, extra colours and special effects.

In short, buy a good quality RGB telly or monitor (I recommend Panasonic or Sony) and decent RGB cables.

excellent point. NOW is the time to be on the lookout for a good quality CRT monitor/tv. thrift stores have plenty of them and they are as cheap as they ever will be. in a few years, they will be much harder to come by.

[chrisbid]

That's an excellent point - it's fairly pointless sweating over a loss of picture quality that would be largely imperceptible when you're experiencing that jump from composite to converted RGB, but at the same time, it's nice to know that the switcher itself is doing a good job. When I decide to take the RGB plunge, I'll keep those switch boxes from Maplin in mind, they do seem pretty classy.

There was unanimous support for a MadCatz SCART switch box in that thread I linked to in my last post. The main distinction with the MadCatz swticher is that, rather than push button selectors, it features a sliding switch which is, apparently, the superior mechanism for the noble act of signal preservation.

http://www.consolesandgadgets.com/ca...or-p-1954.html

No convenient audio out on that one, though.

besides audio out, another feature of the switch is each of the switch buttons is independent of one another. its not a device where you push one button in, and the other button pops back out. that may help avoid "signal leakage" between the various connections.

[joshnickerson]

I'd get in some svideo cables for snes. If you do another group purchase let us know

I'd totally be on board too

[slip81]

warm chocolate puddin' is GOD

[danny_galaga]

Whereas a couple of those cables cost me around 15 bucks, the jump to a top-notch RGB setup (XRGB-3, GCN SCART cable, and euro-to-JAP conversion...) would be 40-50x more expensive.

Anyone care to chime in? :P

15 x 40 = 600...

[substantial_snake]

15 x 40 = 600...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/F-S-NEW-Mico...#ht_3974wt_944

The baseline price on ebay for an X-RGB3 alone is 534 bucks and just goes up from there so yeah he was actually pretty spot on with that. lol However unless your converting a ton of equipment from one signal type to another or just want teh very very best you can get for you Console-LCD transfers it seems excessive. For the of what he posted (unless he was planing on using it for the other stuff) its easy to get the Console-Scart-Converter-To settup for less then 70 bucks.

Speaking of which I've been reading about the X-RBG3 and I am really wondering about its basic function. Is it so desired just for its ability to add scanlines to old consoles or am I missing a huge chunk of the picture here?

[ApolloBoy]

I've gone through about all the internal hardware revisions on the original SNES and they all have poor RGB picture quality, some are better than others, RGB on the original model SNES is very blurry for some reason. Every Super Famicom I've come across has the same problem.

Hate to bump an old thread, but I've been thinking about this recently and I'm trying to figure out why this is. Perhaps the SFC and SNES use composite video for sync instead of a proper sync signal?

[hamburglar]

Hate to bump an old thread, but I've been thinking about this recently and I'm trying to figure out why this is. Perhaps the SFC and SNES use composite video for sync instead of a proper sync signal?

I doubt it has anything to do with that, on the model 2 I have my monitor is taking sync off of the composite video line, looks great.

In fact a while back I bypassed the RGB/Video encoder on a model 1 PCB I had laying around, and installed an RGB amplifier, the picture looked a bit better but was still soft. Looks like the PPU is outputting the video that way... didn't look at it with a scope.

[theclaw]

I doubt it has anything to do with that, on the model 2 I have my monitor is taking sync off of the composite video line, looks great.

In fact a while back I bypassed the RGB/Video encoder on a model 1 PCB I had laying around, and installed an RGB amplifier, the picture looked a bit better but was still soft. Looks like the PPU is outputting the video that way... didn't look at it with a scope.

It might be. I'd suggested earler in this topic RGB quality issues could be part of the hardware for Genesis.

I hadn't even considered SNES... But don't see a particular reason to rule out the idea, now that it's on the table.

[Zing]

I just got around to looking at the comparison images in the OP. The composite shots seem far worse than what I see on my Sony CRT using composite from a Super NES. Yes, I can see very slight rainbowing on thin white lines, but no where near as bad as in the comparison shots. The Earthbound scene in particular is much worse than what I see here.

I suspect the comb filter in the video capture card is rather poor. I am not discounting the benefit of s-video, but the comparison shots in the OP are much worse than what a regular person will see with a Sony Wega CRT.

I still use composite for my Super NES. I'd use s-video, but my TV only has a single s-video input, and it is in use by my PSone. I'd get a switch box, but they all seem to have flaws due to cheap build quality (crosstalk, etc). I want a switch box that is literally a switch box, as in an A/B switch with physical connections changing inside the box. Not just a passive electronic box that changes the signal path in the circuitry. I see some mentions in this thread of a "slider" switch and that sounds in line with what I want.

Any suggestions for a true A/B switch box with s-video support?

[theclaw]

s-video is just overrated. There isn't a particular flaw of note.

I don't blame people for not wanting to invest in better. RGB can be frustrating and expensive to handle. Despite its rarely achieved BAR NONE quality that when done right stands up proud next to component.