NES PowerPak - the NES Flash Card [Archive]

PsychedelicShaman

06-12-2007, 12:46 PM

For those of you that don't know, the powerpaks went on sale yesterday on www.retrousb.com. It's a CF-based flash card which can play most games on your original NES hardware. I'm surprised there are still some available, probably won't last too much longer...

DefaultGen

06-12-2007, 12:56 PM

.....

rbudrick

06-12-2007, 01:11 PM

I managed to snag one. Finally got my NWC Repro a couple of days ago too. Can't wait to get the Power Pak.

-Rob

Mattiekrome

06-12-2007, 01:24 PM

Thats awesome. Looks mega professional, now if it just offered NEX support I'd pick one up

bunnyboy

06-12-2007, 02:15 PM

now if it just offered NEX support I'd pick one up
The NEX is broken by design and will never be supported. It is electrically impossible for the PowerPak to work on it.

MarioMania

06-12-2007, 02:16 PM

What Games can be played on the Flash Cart..Can Hacked ROM's be played on the Power Pak

skaar

06-12-2007, 04:00 PM

I snagged a power pak too.

Damn you impulse purchases!

Kitsune Sniper

06-12-2007, 04:13 PM

That price is insane.

But who am I kidding? If I HAD a NES I'd buy one too. -_-;;

scooby105

06-12-2007, 04:43 PM

I didn't even know this thing was coming out. Totally awesome. I already dropped $200 today on some other video game related purchases and now this. Lots of items going up for sale in the next week or so to pay for it all.

PsychedelicShaman

06-12-2007, 04:47 PM

That price is insane.

But who am I kidding? If I HAD a NES I'd buy one too. -_-;;

That price is insanely cheap. I would have bought one for much more, and I'm quite surprised it was sold for under $150. You can't tell me there's less than $150 worth of NES games you want to play. For the people who already have a sizable collection, they can play all the rares that they never could/want to afford. For everyone, they can play certain hacks and homebrews on real hardware. For us pirates, we can have nearly the entire library on one cart for less than $150. That's just too great:) Also $135 is fairly low for flashcarts, older systems with less games usually go for more than that. Except for legality issues, monetary issues, or people who have an entire NES collection, I fail to see why everyone is not buying one right now!

handofg0d

06-12-2007, 04:49 PM

I'll wait for the reviews before I drop this kind of cash.

Rob - be sure to let me know how it turns out for you.

clicked

06-12-2007, 05:13 PM

$135 is a little steep. I need to get my funds back up so I'll have to wait before I decide to snag one. When you get the Powerpak post a review on it. If its worth it I'm definitely getting one.

DefaultGen

06-12-2007, 05:27 PM

.....

MarioMania

06-12-2007, 05:30 PM

Post Pics of it..How do you selete the game & how do you chose another game

DefaultGen

06-12-2007, 05:35 PM

.....

williewonka2k1

06-12-2007, 06:11 PM

I'm making a donation to get one cause I'm a broke ass college student. Hook it up.

PsychedelicShaman

06-12-2007, 06:13 PM

Post Pics of it..How do you selete the game & how do you chose another game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5ea3S_XaQ -- It's a pretty good vid of how to select games and saving.

Sweater Fish Deluxe

06-12-2007, 07:27 PM

http://www.retrousb.com/images/powerpaklist.jpg

I wish all the games in that list weren't mapperless. I know this thing can support mappers. Quite a lot from the looks of it, in fact, and hopefully more will be adde din the future since it's FPGA, but there really ought to be an incompatibility list on the site.

Very cool that this finally came out, though.

...word is bondage...

MarioMania

06-12-2007, 07:31 PM

Can Super Mario World run on it

Sweater Fish Deluxe

06-12-2007, 07:54 PM

The Super Mario World pirate is mapper 90 which is listed as "planned" on the PowerPak support list. So, not currently, but maybe eventually. I wouldn't expect very many pirate originals to work to start off, which is too bad since they're probably the best reason to buy this cart.

...word is bondage...

MarioMania

06-12-2007, 08:02 PM

I prolly going to wait on it..So he could make it more Compatibale with Pirates game & later games

skaar

06-12-2007, 08:09 PM

I prolly going to wait on it..So he could make it more Compatibale with Pirates game & later games

Yeah, assuming you can get one later. I just figured I'd jump on it now, myself. Development will come later.

Anthony1

06-12-2007, 09:18 PM

If they had a cart like this for the Neo-Geo, I'd get one. For the NES, at this price, I don't think so. All the NES games that I enjoy are cheap enough to own outright, and the ones that aren't I can easily play on a emulator with the real NES controller (usb style). If this was like $95, I'd probably think about it, but it would need to be 256.

Mattiekrome

06-12-2007, 10:25 PM

This alone is making me reconsider selling off my NES system... But all this talk about mappers and the such (WTF is a mapper, and is it going to cause me problems?) is throwing up a red flag. OK, example...

I OWN 5 NES carts. Urban Champion, Legend Of Zelda, NES Open Golf, Mega Man 5, and Super Mario Bros 3. If I put those ROMS on the flash cart, is it going to play? or is there going to be all kinds of hassels to get it to work? I'm looking for simple! I'm not into all this development stuff :)

ccovell

06-12-2007, 11:15 PM

Yes, it should be that easy to use. The ROMs in the video/screenshots have just been sorted into directories by mapper, that's all.

What is a mapper?
The 6502 CPU has only a 16-bit address bus. That means it can only access up to 65536 bytes of either ROM or RAM at one time. And the NES is designed to access half that much ROM. As programmers want to have more complex games, they need a way to spread a game across more than 32K of ROM. Thus, memory mappers are devices which switch different banks of program code into the 32K window of ROM which the CPU can access.

After increasing the address space, the more modern memory mappers really improved the amount of character graphics available to the game, and how it can combine them. The first mapper that changed graphics did it 8K at a time. However, the later mappers allowed games to swap in much smaller sections of CHR ROM, to allow for more animation in the backgrounds. Plus, of course, many game companies came out with their own mappers which had IRQ timers, and allowed tricks to be performed with the PPU. Several mappers also had additional sound chips, to add to the complexity of the music in (really only Famicom) games.

(from my NES Tech FAQ (http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/NESTechFAQ.html))

Jorpho

06-13-2007, 10:04 AM

A nice idea, but is it that superior to PocketNES + Game Boy Player (or GBA+TV de Advance) ?

TheRedEye

06-13-2007, 10:12 AM

A nice idea, but is it that superior to PocketNES + Game Boy Player (or GBA+TV de Advance) ?

Um, yes? Even a straight-up computer emulator would be superior to squashing the image and listening to inaccurate audio.

skaar

06-13-2007, 10:43 AM

Hear hear.

I usually get my NES action from the Xbox and NES emulator. I'm looking forward to this as a better option - at least, if I wanted to use my NES Advantage again ;)

MarioMania

06-13-2007, 11:03 AM

If you want to play pirate games like Street Fighter II's & Mortal Kombat's you can't...it dosen't surpport Mappers for those games

idrougge

06-13-2007, 03:01 PM

If you want to play pirate games like Street Fighter II's & Mortal Kombat's you can't...it dosen't surpport Mappers for those games

Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat wouldn't be high up on the list of games I'd want to play on the NES.

Sweater Fish Deluxe

06-13-2007, 03:12 PM

No, but there are some really cool pirate originals like Aladdin, Super Shinobi, Super Mario World and those would be high up on my list of games to play on this cart since as has been pointed out, most everything else on the NES worth playing can be picked up for pretty cheap.

Some of the total hacks would be nice, too, but I'm not sure all of those would work either, since many of the best ones don't seem to use the original games' mappers.

...word is bondage...

agbulls

06-13-2007, 03:30 PM

idrougge

06-13-2007, 03:55 PM

No, but there are some really cool pirate originals like Aladdin, Super Shinobi, Super Mario World and those would be high up on my list of games to play on this cart since as has been pointed out, most everything else on the NES worth playing can be picked up for pretty cheap.

All those you mention are indeed quite impressive. But my experience is that pirate cartridges, especially of the SF2/Mortal Kombat kind, are cheaper than original games. After all, that's why they're pirates.

shadowkn55

06-13-2007, 04:38 PM

Sweater Fish Deluxe

06-13-2007, 05:47 PM

All those you mention are indeed quite impressive. But my experience is that pirate cartridges, especially of the SF2/Mortal Kombat kind, are cheaper than original games. After all, that's why they're pirates.
I didn't know that since I've so rarely seen them for sale. I don't really ever seek them out, though. Is there a good place where you can reliably find pirate original games? I check eBay now and then, but almost never see anything. I have a hard on for pirate stuff, especially originals.

...word is bondage...

kaedesdisciple

06-13-2007, 09:22 PM

It looks like they're available again. I'm awaiting a review as this would be great to help tidy up my NES collection. I'm not too attached to the carts themselves so I wouldn't mind parting with them in favor of one consolidated cart.

ccovell

06-13-2007, 10:09 PM

It has a few limitations that I'd addressed before I jump the gun. It can't create new save files. You either have to supply an existing one or a dummy file that it can overwrite. You also can't update the boot rom without a CopyNES and lately those have been hard to come by.

The first one is a limitation, but think realistically. When you copy your NES ROMs over to the CF card, chances are you'll have plenty of SAV files in the same directory for all the games (with save features) that you've played.

The second one is a bit worrisome, but the designer of the PowerPak notes that most users will never need to update the boot ROM. The menu code, mapper information, etc, are all stored as files on the CF card and loaded by the boot ROM, which apparently handles the most basic of functions.

skaar

06-14-2007, 01:44 PM

That's actually a rather weak limitation. (the SAV file issue) - hopefully something they can resolve.

Can you just create a bunch of dummy files and go with that?

(still waiting to get mine)

MarioMania

06-14-2007, 01:59 PM

I'm going to wait til I play pirate games like SMW on it..when that happens I'm getting it

shadowkn55

06-14-2007, 06:00 PM

The first one is a limitation, but think realistically. When you copy your NES ROMs over to the CF card, chances are you'll have plenty of SAV files in the same directory for all the games (with save features) that you've played.

The second one is a bit worrisome, but the designer of the PowerPak notes that most users will never need to update the boot ROM. The menu code, mapper information, etc, are all stored as files on the CF card and loaded by the boot ROM, which apparently handles the most basic of functions.

You can't assume that everyone will have save files. What if I dump the entire nes library onto a compactflash? I don't want to manually create a save or dummy for each and every game that needs it. As for the boot rom, giving the ability to do updates only makes sense if there is an easy and accessible for everyone to do it. Sending to the few people that have a CopyNES isn't exactly the best thing to do. If you had to send your PSP to Sony everytime a firmware update came out, I'm sure you wouldn't be too happy. Hopefully the boot rom won't need to be updated but mistakes happen. Otherwise, the psp would still be at firmware 1.00 save for a few genuine feature updates.

Greg2600

06-14-2007, 09:15 PM

Seems like quite an ingenious idea, hopefully Nintendo doesn't jump on them. The website is pretty confusing though. One version uses a CompactFlash card. So you can just copy a game from your PC on the CF card, and insert the card back into the device, and the game will play on an NES? Also, are they guaranteeing compatibility for all officially licensed NES games? I don't care about pirate games, only the official ones. Reading the site, it does seem to do all those things. Great product, although I agree a bit pricey.

Sweater Fish Deluxe

06-14-2007, 09:16 PM

No, it will not work with all games, licensed or otherwise.

...word is bondage...

Sweater Fish Deluxe

06-14-2007, 09:20 PM

You can't assume that everyone will have save files. What if I dump the entire nes library onto a compactflash? I don't want to manually create a save or dummy for each and every game that needs it.
You don't have to create a new file for each that requires a save, just have one dummy file and copy it repeatedly. How hard is it to do that whenever you write a game that requires saving to your CF card? Would you also like the cart to wipe your chin for you when you're done with your bottle?

...word is bondage...

shadowkn55

06-14-2007, 09:57 PM

You don't have to create a new file for each that requires a save, just have one dummy file and copy it repeatedly. How hard is it to do that whenever you write a game that requires saving to your CF card? Would you also like the cart to wipe your chin for you when you're done with your bottle?

...word is bondage...

Don't you need to uniquely name each file you copy over? Last time I checked, copying a file over and over with the same name just overwrites it. This is certainly not a ridculous thing to ask for. The M3 adaptor handles this feature nicely on its own and it is another external flash based cartridge. If bunnyboy is looking for help to implement this, I would gladly spent the time to help him out. He has definitely put out very nice work and has done what no one else could have in years. I only see this as a limitation that could be fixed in time and there is definitely no place for childish remarks such as yours.

Sweater Fish Deluxe

06-14-2007, 10:30 PM

Don't you need to uniquely name each file you copy over? Last time I checked, copying a file over and over with the same name just overwrites it. This is certainly not a ridculous thing to ask for. The M3 adaptor handles this feature nicely on its own and it is another external flash based cartridge.
The saves on an M3 cart (other than the M3 Simply) aren't created by the M3 itself, they're created by the M3 Manager program that you use when you transfer a ROM. It would be trivial to make a program (or even a batch file probably) for the PowerPak that copies a ROM to the card and creates an empty save file at the same time, but then I still think it's also trivial to just do it yourself. The only reason it wouldn't be trivial is if you have thousands of ROMs and don't even know which ones require save files, in which case you have too many ROMs and have obviously never played most of them anyway.

and there is definitely no place for childish remarks such as yours.
Fear not, childish remarks, you will always have a place in my posts!

Any childish remarks out there fleeing content cleansing programs inflicted by shadowkn55 or any other humorless posting regime may apply for refugee status with me.

Sweater Fish Deluxe is childish enough to accept you as you are!

...word is bondage...

ccovell

06-14-2007, 11:07 PM

You can't assume that everyone will have save files. What if I dump the entire nes library onto a compactflash?

But this would imply that you've never, ever, played said ROMs in an emulator. I sincerely hope you are the type that gives NES games their fair share of love by playing them, and are not simply a ROM hoarder. :p

shadowkn55

06-14-2007, 11:18 PM

The saves on an M3 cart (other than the M3 Simply) aren't created by the M3 itself, they're created by the M3 Manager program that you use when you transfer a ROM. It would be trivial to make a program (or even a batch file probably) for the PowerPak that copies a ROM to the card and creates an empty save file at the same time, but then I still think it's also trivial to just do it yourself. The only reason it wouldn't be trivial is if you have thousands of ROMs and don't even know which ones require save files, in which case you have too many ROMs and have obviously never played most of them anyway.

I just checked out my m3 and it looks like you are right. I always thought game manager was to only patch the roms. Even if the fpga can't handle create save files, it would be nice to have a program that creates an appropriate sized dummy file. I rarely play games through emulators and I don't keep track of how big each games' save file is.

Fear not, childish remarks, you will always have a place in my posts!

Any childish remarks out there fleeing content cleansing programs inflicted by shadowkn55 or any other humorless posting regime may apply for refugee status with me.

Sweater Fish Deluxe is childish enough to accept you as you are!

...word is bondage...

I hardly find any tact in your attempt at humor. You are welcome to try again if you learn subtlety.

shadowkn55

06-14-2007, 11:20 PM

But this would imply that you've never, ever, played said ROMs in an emulator. I sincerely hope you are the type that gives NES games their fair share of love by playing them, and are not simply a ROM hoarder. :p

I try to play games on original hardware (or something like it) when I can. I don't have a good pc controller and the whole experience isn't quite the same. It's too bad my Super 8 isn't supported by the PowerPak.

ProgrammingAce

06-14-2007, 11:36 PM

It would be trivial to make a program (or even a batch file probably) for the PowerPak that copies a ROM to the card and creates an empty save file at the same time...

Since i bought one of the power packs, and i'm fairly sure i don't have any roms, i'll have to write a script anyway. When i do, i'll put it up for anyone to use.

Edit: hell, come to think of it i'm not sure i have an NES either...

bunnyboy

06-14-2007, 11:44 PM

Even if the fpga can't handle create save files, ...

The problem isn't that the PowerPak can't create files, just that its surprisingly hard to do file creation on FAT systems without corruption. Especially when the system can be shut down at any second. Long file names get even more confusing to create. Entering a file name would also take far longer than just having a batch of empty save files ahead of time. Its possible I will add it in the future, but someone is free to write the FAT handling in 6502 asm if that is too much trouble :)

Of course waiting is still fine, there are bugs now and there will be bugs later. Not buying is better than buying and expecting a perfect product.

shadowkn55

06-15-2007, 12:05 AM

The problem isn't that the PowerPak can't create files, just that its surprisingly hard to do file creation on FAT systems without corruption. Especially when the system can be shut down at any second. Long file names get even more confusing to create. Entering a file name would also take far longer than just having a batch of empty save files ahead of time. Its possible I will add it in the future, but someone is free to write the FAT handling in 6502 asm if that is too much trouble :)

Of course waiting is still fine, there are bugs now and there will be bugs later. Not buying is better than buying and expecting a perfect product.

I guess its time to pull out the programming books. I'll probably end creating a script or small c program that generates saves unless ProgrammingAce beats me to the punch. Of course I'll be buying it sometime in the future. Maybe sooner than later since a knee injury just put me out of commission.

Icarus Moonsight

06-15-2007, 12:59 AM

I have a question about the Power Pak. Call it Nex anxiety if you must. :p If it is a positive I WILL be buying one, unless they are no longer avaliable when I have the money to spare. Here it is, the biggy. The compatability with licensed games that are confirmed accurate dumps is at or near 100%? I read Sweater Fish's post that all games will work. Is that an eventuallity or as it is now? Yes, I've read the entire thread up to my post and I'm still bewildered. I'm getting mixed messages... @_@

bunnyboy

06-15-2007, 02:45 AM

Just sold the last one, no more for 4-8 weeks unless I fix some of the doa boards!

The compatability with licensed games that are confirmed accurate dumps is at or near 100%?
I am definitely not advertising full compatibility (yet). Right now all licensed USA mappers except MMC5 run at least the few games I tested, some with graphical glitches like Punch Out (marked as buggy on mapper table). That is ~97% of the licensed USA games. I have NOT done a check for complete compatibility on every game, I expect to update the mappers as bugs are found. That is the whole point of the upgradeable system, the mappers are updated by just copying files to the CF card. CopyNES is not needed to update the mappers.

"Eventually" MMC5 games will run, and more of the japanese/pirate mappers will be added. The only games that will never run are the ones that are too big, mappers marked as bad, and FDS. Unlike the NEX, there are no known design flaws that mean Castlevania 3, Gauntlet, etc would never work.

Icarus Moonsight

06-15-2007, 09:11 AM

Thank you for the prompt reply. :) I'll try and place an order in 4-8 weeks then. May even pick up some other things while I'm at it.

kaedesdisciple

06-15-2007, 09:13 AM

I guess its time to pull out the programming books. I'll probably end creating a script or small c program that generates saves unless ProgrammingAce beats me to the punch. Of course I'll be buying it sometime in the future. Maybe sooner than later since a knee injury just put me out of commission.

Perl is your friend :)

rbudrick

06-15-2007, 01:10 PM

The only games that will never run are the ones that are too big, mappers marked as bad, and FDS.

I understand FDS (I'm praying you'll decide to make an FDS version of the cart), but what do you mean by games "that are too big?" And if a mapper is marked as "bad" what exactly makes them so (I'm not sure what bad means in this case)? Or rather, what makes them undoable?

Either way, can't wait to receive mine!

-Rob

GizmoGC

06-16-2007, 12:07 AM

I'd love to have one but the price is a but too high and in 4-8 weeks I will have little to no interest in it. Oh well.

skaar

06-28-2007, 09:26 PM

Well mine came in the mail yesterday. I just realized that I didn't have any freaking CF media! I managed to dig up a 32MB card so will be playing with it later on. Anyone else get theirs yet?

skaar

06-28-2007, 09:40 PM

I'd love to have one but the price is a but too high and in 4-8 weeks I will have little to no interest in it. Oh well.

Too bad for you, I got mine! Oh well indeed.

ProgrammingAce

06-28-2007, 10:19 PM

I received mine almost two weeks ago... i don't seem to have an NES though...

Retrogamer72

06-28-2007, 10:31 PM

I got mine a while ago as well. Haven't had much time to use it yet but from the time I have spent playing with it, it seems to work with all of the games I tried and is a pretty cool item especially if you love the NES.

kaedesdisciple

08-03-2007, 12:34 AM

Gah, how much longer till these come back?

PsychedelicShaman

08-03-2007, 02:10 AM

Estimated date is August 13

Barbarianoutkast85

08-03-2007, 02:16 AM

Wow I didnt realize they made these for the NES and SNES. I currently have one that is the same thing only for a PS2 controller. This reminds me of a question I have.....

acem77

11-30-2007, 11:27 PM

no rgb support for the powerpak :cry:

man my dreams shattered, well good thing i have an unmodded nes

here is a funny picture of space harrier.
the 3 bars in the top left are your guy the others are bushes.
all games have this look.

i am going to send an email to the creator of the powerpak see if he has any ideas.

http://www.greatlakesvista.com/mods/powerpak_rgb_nes.JPG

kazuo

12-02-2007, 04:03 PM

no rgb support for the powerpak :cry:

Wow, that fucking sucks, especially seeing as I'm picking up a modded AV Fami soon.

Good luck with that e-mail, he takes forever to reply.. you're better off calling his house (seriously).

acem77

03-26-2008, 12:56 PM

I ordered some 200 ohm pots to put in line with the data points on the powerpak.

My plan is to remove all the components from a game genie and use it as a pass through. Then solder the 200 ohm pots on to the game genie.

i do not feel like messing with/messing up the powerpak its self.

Does any company sell straight pass though connectors that would work with a nes. That would be great then i could skip messing with the game genie.

Does anyone know if bunnyboy/ the creator of the powerpak is still alive?
He still has not replied to my email.
I have not asked too much from him. I see this as being very rude if he is choosing not to write back.

Frankie_Says_Relax

03-26-2008, 12:59 PM

InsaneDavid

03-26-2008, 01:44 PM

Would you also like the cart to wipe your chin for you when you're done with your bottle?

ROFL ROFL ROFL

rbudrick

03-26-2008, 05:18 PM

Hey Acem77,

No, there is no pass-through connector other than the Game Genie for NES. Oh, and the Euro-only Pro Action Replay. Well, the Game Action Replay too, but that doesn't count. If there were a real one, I'd have used my FDS on my NES a lot more than on my FC.

Keep us updated to any progress. As I mentioned to you in a PM, I have a Vs. Duck Hunt PPU now and am dying to get the mod done, but I don't trust my abilities with these things because I always screw them up. If you change your mind and need some dough, I'd still love for you to do the mod for me. ;)

Anyone else here able to do a RGB NES mod?

-Rob

scooby105

07-10-2008, 12:29 AM

http://www.retrousb.com/index.php?productID=133

As a heads up, these seem to be in stock again. If you haven't picked one of these up, it's quite a nice thing to have for the Nintendo.

mezrabad

07-12-2008, 11:06 AM

I got mine yesterday, loaded it with a few games and was very happy to see them working. It's cool to play Final Fantasy III (J) in English on my NES, for example.

I'm pretty certain I could have found all of the NES games I'm keen on playing for less than the cost of the PowerPak+CF Bundle. However, since, for reasons of insanity, I'm going slog through every videogame released in the US (in chronological order) the PowerPak will enable me to do that with NES games on the original hardware without having to spend time traking down titles like Sesame Street 123 (not that it isn't a great letter game). Now, I can spend my time doing what I really enjoy...making a big spread sheet of all NES games sorted by release date and marking off whether I'll be able to play them on the PowerPak or with a genuine cart. Then I just need to figure out which carts I have to get.

That being said, I know that RetroZone has posted a handy mapper table of bad, good, buggy, planned and unused mappers. Is there a list anywhere of what games use which mappers?

OR, and this is the easier question, is there a definitive list of games which don't work yet on the PowerPak?

By reputation, I think I can safely assume Castlevania III is on there. ;) (though I am aware the nature of the PowerPak doesn't gurrantee that it always will be. Yay, FPGA!)

What others?