Definitive series in Retro Gamer...worst writing/research?

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

No you dolt, that is the whole damn point. The title is the title is the title. There is no way around it.

If you were doing a story about how much you love Cheez-it crackers, you wouldn't change it to Cheese-it.

Clearly you never read AP.

Professional writer, are you?

[Cav]

"If you don't like it, you're perfectly at liberty to write "ThreEEEeEeEEeEEeeEeEeEEeeeEEEeeeEEEEEEEeEeeeeeEEE eeEEeEdeep" all you want, but I won't be joining in."

That would be silly. I prefer to remain accurate when I write and that's not the name of the game. I've got some bad news for you. If you ever once wrote "Q*bert" you were "fucked by mangling marketing dicks." The correct spelling would be "Cube-ert." After all, he hops on cubes, right? I pray to god they didn't hoodwink you on that one.

[MR.TI994A]

I am thinking about playing some "Cue Bert's Cubes" or "Hero" on my Coleco Vision tonight. Which one is better?

Then I was thinking of hooking up my Dreamcast to play some "Tokyo Extreme Racer". Is "Tokyo Extreme Racer 2" the better of the two?

I can't wait for the Definitive "Mortal Combat" article.

I suppose a Definitive on the Odyssey 2 game catalog is out of the "question!"

[Mayhem]

I'm a full-time journalist, not some kid off the street. I've been in this game long enough to criticise other writers.

Fair enough, but a lot of time people just go "it's crap" and hardly bother to explain why. Instances like that annoy me to no end, please give some constructive arguments. Given many articles in RG are written using the words straight from the person(s) responsible for item X (be it game, company, hardware or event) then to say there's "little hard content" is a bit bemusing.

As for the Vectrex piece, it was only 4 months ago, surprised it seems so way back to you...

And as for our current spelling diatribe, personally I'd spell it either way as the mood suited me. For sure it's spelt with 3 Es in the C64 rarity guide I manage, but that's the only time I'd make sure it was exact...

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

"If you don't like it, you're perfectly at liberty to write "ThreEEEeEeEEeEEeeEeEeEEeeeEEEeeeEEEEEEEeEeeeeeEEE eeEEeEdeep" all you want, but I won't be joining in."

That would be silly. I prefer to remain accurate when I write and that's not the name of the game. I've got some bad news for you. If you ever once wrote "Q*bert" you were "fucked by mangling marketing dicks." The correct spelling would be "Cube-ert." After all, he hops on cubes, right? I pray to god they didn't hoodwink you on that one.

I refer you back to "Galaga".

The tedious thing about this thread is people too ignorant to read what's being posted.

[Cav]

"I refer you back to "Galaga".

The tedious thing about this thread is people too ignorant to read what's being posted."

Sorry, the "Galaga/Frogger" pages fell out of my AP manual. Would you be kind enough to quote what you are referring to?

Just out of curiosity what's with all the attitude? I thought you Brits were supposed to be a polite lot.

[blissfulnoise]

After reading this thread, I’ve learned a very, very important thing:

Frogger II is serious business.

So in staying serious, I decided to poke around on my own regarding this mysterious "Frogger II".


Frogger II has been released an numerous console and computer platforms, but the spelling hasn't been consistent from release to release. The PC version uses the spelling Three Deep, compared to other platforms which use the spelling ThreeeDeep!.

After viewing scanned images of the boxes and cartridges on the various platforms, that answer is good enough for me. It’s not an “affected spelling” (you see that little ™ next to the word Threeedeep on the cover? You typically don’t trademark affected spellings.), and it’s certainly not an issue of grammar.

Stuart Campbell simply seems to have been wrong on the title. There's no other way to put it. You can't just arbitrarily rename things because you hold the opinion that they're not spelled the way they should be. That said, I haven't read the article and haven't seen it in context. Regardless, it's not that big a deal in the long run given the dissimilarities of the game's title on PC and console platforms and certainly won't distract from me reading otherwise excellent articles.

What's more important is how juvenile he is acting in response to a valid criticism about his article. Ultimately (and literally) telling people to fuck themselves on the internet is pathetic, and coming from someone who fancies themselves a journalist, it’s also professionally dangerous. You go on to insult and belittle hobbyists who take a serious interest in classic gaming as “spoddy, whiny fanboys” when you’re criticized (not with generalities either, with specifics). Seeing as how these “spoddy, whiny fanboys” currently butter your bread with said magazine, your IQ isn’t looking too hot either.

As a result, I, for one, will ensure that I never pay for anything you’re associated with.

I know the thought of a single, random person on the internet boycotting your apparently very witty, and informative magazine (I have no idea what other fine publications you give your journalistic credence to, but I’ll be sure to find out) over a pompous and offensive stand-off on the interwebs is mildly entertaining, but it’s the best way I can stress my opinion that I think you’re an asshole. And don’t worry, I already assume it’s mutual.

[Alison DeMeyer]

British commercial jingle "Beanz Meanz Heinz"

British band Slade: "Cum on feel the noize"

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

"I refer you back to "Galaga".

The tedious thing about this thread is people too ignorant to read what's being posted."

Sorry, the "Galaga/Frogger" pages fell out of my AP manual. Would you be kind enough to quote what you are referring to?

Just out of curiosity what's with all the attitude? I thought you Brits were supposed to be a polite lot.

We are. But we're also very intolerant of rude ignorant cretins. I'd never tell someone to fuck off for disagreeing with me or criticising something I wrote in a reasoned, rational manner. So far the standard of debate is so retarded that it barely even deserves capital letters at the start of sentences, never mind proper respect and consideration.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

Stuart Campbell simply seems to have been wrong on the title. There's no other way to put it. You can't just arbitrarily rename things because you hold the opinion that they're not spelled the way they should be.

Says who? Point me to the law.


Regardless, it's not that big a deal in the long run given the dissimilarities of the game's title on PC and console platforms and certainly won't distract from me reading otherwise excellent articles.

As a result, I, for one, will ensure that I never pay for anything you’re associated with.

You seem to have contradicted yourself there. I for one am so disgusted I will be boycotting all your internet posts from now on, and so will my wife.

[Alison DeMeyer]

So far the standard of debate is so retarded....

But only from your side.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

But only from your side.

LOLOLOLROFLLMAO! I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE! YOU PWNED ME GOOD!

:roll:

[fishsandwich]

Good grief. Why is eveyone so damn serious on what is supposed to be a fun hobby? How are we supposed learn about things if we aren't taught? I suppose I could spend all day on Google but I like my gaming info in a nice, tight magazine form that I can read in an hour or two... always have, probably always will. Retro Gamer has educated me about A LOT of things that I didn't know.

Even the most serious and respectable publications have errors and occasionally mediocre writing... and Retro Gamer is hardly Time Magazine or Newsweek. It's a niche magazine written for the hardcore gamer and I for one am thankful to get it. It's not perfect, but *nothing* ever is.

I also wish that Retro Gamer could cover EVERY conversion of a particular game but there is simply not enough space for that. How many times have you read an article in a popular magazine and found that it wrapped up far too quickly, leaving you wanting for more? It has happened to me plenty.

I think the more popular and slickly-produced PLAY magazine has bigger problems- their reviews are for sale (such as the new Sonic the Hedgehog with its 9.5 rating) and lets not forget the ever-gay/arrogant Nick Des Barres but I still read it. Their last issue with the interview with Team Ninja was quite good (overly positive reviews notwithstanding.)

Lighten up! There are far bigger issues to debate than the spelling of Frogger.

p.s. A wise man once said "If you don't like my damn magazine then write your own."

Get writing, people.

[bangtango]

I'm not siding with anybody here. I'll just say that there aren't a whole lot of monthly print publications with decent distribution and an established readership that are itching to do a story on Frogger II. Spelling errors aside, I'd expect people to be a little more thankful that some magazine chooses to give the damn game a few pages of coverage. As if anyone reading this thread can say they've never slacked on research or made a factual error in their lifetime.

If there are so many professional writers in this thread and the Retro Gamer article was so lousy, then why doesn't someone review a version of Frogger II for this web site to set the record straight? Oh, because they wouldn't get paid for doing it and the limited to modest amount of exposure from posting it here wouldn't benefit their career.

This thread isn't big enough for all the egos in here. Holy shit.

[RCM]

Let's face it, game journalism in general is considered a joke by the industry and the mainstream media. It serves a purpose but is clearly stuck in the ghetto. Even top journalists like N'Gai Croal fuck up certain facts on a fairly consistent basis! Don't ask for examples - find em yourself!!

From what I've read of RG I haven't been impressed. I admit I haven't read much but now I'm interested... I hope it's worth the effort.

As for the thrashing SC is receiving what do you expect? Every self rightous fucktard on the net feels the need to be an overly critical fuckface from time to time. I've done it too. I admire the time he's taken to defend his work and his passion.

And as for the chest thumping "I've done this for XX years" get over it. I understand why you're saying it but you sound like certain journalists turned assistant PR Weasels that fell off the face off the earth.

No offense to anyone. Great thread. We needed something like this at DP. It's been too quiet!!!

[blissfulnoise]

The straw that broke my proverbal back was his attitude. There's ways to defend your work without being so damn insulting.

I don't care how good his articles might be or how many weeks he takes to prepare an article. And I don't really care how he spelled Frogger II's full title. But If he's going to insult his readers, and potential readers, by calling them idiots with low IQs and anal-retentive fanboys, insisting they "fuck off", then anything he's involved with can rot on the stands as far as I'm concerned.

I didn't really know Mayhem was involved with the magazine, he's someone I really respect on these boards. Had I known sooner, I'd have made a real effort to get the magazine. But after this fiasco, I'll have to support him without using my wallet.

[MR.TI994A]

As if anyone reading this thread can say they've never slacked on research or made a factual error in their lifetime

Problem is, most writers, at least the professional ones, aren't going to respond in the manner in which the writer has decided to respond. Additionally, if an error is made, a correction is made in the next issue. I can't imagine any writer for a mainstream publisher following up on an allegation of factual error in his writing by telling the person he is whiny and to go fuck himself.


If there are so many professional writers in this thread and the Retro Gamer article was so lousy, then why doesn't someone review a version of Frogger II for this web site to set the record straight? Oh, because they wouldn't get paid for doing it and the limited to modest amount of exposure from posting it here wouldn't benefit their career.

First, as mentioned above, the writer in question is hardly acting "professional". Second, if the writer, or his publisher, expect to get paid by the very same people who are purchasing their product, they should act professional in response to such criticisms by their consumers instead of resorting to such philistine and sophmoric tactics such as bullying, belittling and name calling. Such a response should not be tolerated no matter what line of work you are in, nor should it it be justified by others.

[bangtango]

Problem is, most writers, at least the professional ones, aren't going to respond in the manner in which the writer has decided to respond. Additionally, if an error is made, a correction is made in the next issue. I can't imagine any writer for a mainstream publisher following up on an allegation of factual error in his writing by telling the person he is whiny and to go fuck himself.

First, as mentioned above, the writer in question is hardly acting "professional". Second, if the writer, or his publisher, expect to get paid by the very same people who are purchasing their product, they should act professional in response to such criticisms by their consumers instead of resorting to such philistine and sophmoric tactics such as bullying, belittling and name calling. Such a response should not be tolerated no matter what line of work you are in, nor should it it be justified by others.

Hey, I agree with you actually. The smartest thing Mr. (or Rev.) Campbell could have done is ignored the controversy. Creating an account here just to respond to a couple of critics was unnecessary. Like you said, most writers aren't going to do that. Some guy from Gamepro or EGM isn't going to show up every time there is a thread about one of their articles.

You know something, though? Whether anyone likes him or the article, he was hired by the magazine because he has some talent as a writer. They didn't fill his position at Retro Gamer by picking a name out of a hat.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

The straw that broke my proverbal back was his attitude. There's ways to defend your work without being so damn insulting.

Wah wah wah look at the nasty man calling people names boo hoo.

If you'd devoted less of your time to being a whiny hypocritical crybaby and actually read my first post, it's a playfully-phrased and careful, patient explanation of the ethos behind the way the features in question are written. At the very LEAST, even if it takes a couple of little digs, it's still a lot more polite than calling someone an incompetent who can't do their research properly when it's YOU who hasn't checked his facts.

Unfortunately, it met with nothing but pathetic playground "No, YOU are LOLLOLLOL!!!!!" sniping, so there clearly wasn't a grown-up discussion to be had. As my granny always used to say "If you want to be understood by a Frenchman, speak French".

I don't know what you do for a living, but if you were a professional who'd spent hundreds of hours of your life diligently researching and working on a series of features - paid at well below your usual rates - just so that you were damn sure they were complete, comprehensive and correct, specifically because you cared that the information was finally out there in a proper accurate form instead of all the misleading bollocks that fills the internet, and then some fucking buffoon comes along and posts some incredibly offensive and insulting and just plain WRONG shit about it for the world to read, unjustifiably attacking your professionalism in a personal way, I wonder if you'd respond with as much restraint as I did. Feel free to point us at some of your work so we can find out.

I don't give a damn about the respect of cretins, and anyone who's such a simple-minded idiot that they care more about a jocularly dismissive rude word that they hear 50 times a day than about a GENUINELY offensive insult certainly falls into that category as far as I'm concerned. When you criticise the original poster for his stupid, hysterical and misguided abuse, then I might give a rat's arse-fur about what you think of my attitude. Until then, you can go and fuck yourself too, and so can your mum.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

Hey, I agree with you actually. The smartest thing Mr. (or Rev.) Campbell could have done is ignored the controversy. Creating an account here just to respond to a couple of critics was unnecessary. Like you said, most writers aren't going to do that. Some guy from Gamepro or EGM isn't going to show up every time there is a thread about one of their articles.

That's because most of them don't give a shit. As you can plainly see by reading anything they write.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

Problem is, most writers, at least the professional ones, aren't going to respond in the manner in which the writer has decided to respond. Additionally, if an error is made, a correction is made in the next issue. I can't imagine any writer for a mainstream publisher following up on an allegation of factual error in his writing by telling the person he is whiny and to go fuck himself.

I didn't. I responded with a simple challenge:

"If you can find ONE SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR (ie not some ridiculously pathetic Roman-numerals gripe) in the 100+ pages of Definitives published so far - just ONE - then come back here and share it with us, and maybe your views will be worth half an atom of respect."

Funnily enough, nobody's managed to take up that challenge. The "fuck off" was conditional.


First, as mentioned above, the writer in question is hardly acting "professional". Second, if the writer, or his publisher, expect to get paid by the very same people who are purchasing their product, they should act professional in response to such criticisms by their consumers instead of resorting to such philistine and sophmoric tactics such as bullying, belittling and name calling.

As already noted, I did. I explained the purpose and rationale of the Definitive pieces fully and carefully, and why the supposed "errors" weren't therefore errors at all. Unfortunately, rather than admit his mistake like a man, the original poster descended to pathetic playground behaviour and thus the tone of the debate was set, as my granny always advised.

Oh, and I don't expect to "get paid by the very same people who are purchasing their product". I get paid by the magazine, who are sufficiently happy with the standard of my work to have commissioned it repeatedly for 18 months. I've been a professional journalist for almost 20 years, and one thing I learned VERY early on is that you'll always upset the occasional vocal twat who flounces off in a huff promising never to buy your magazine again. Luckily, if you do your job properly, the thousands of silently satisfied customers who appreciate quality work tend to ensure that for every idiot you lose, three more-intelligent people take his place. It's a formula that's served me well for the best part of two decades, and I'm happy to carry it on, regardless of how many simpering nancies pretend to be shocked and horrified by the odd bit of mildly robust language.

[Flack]

Feel free to point us at some of your work so we can find out.

You've used this defense unfairly now multiple times in this thread. I don't believe people need to be a professional writer to comment or critique something they've read, no more than a reviewer needs to be a game developer to comment or review games he or she has played.

I suppose I could post a lengthy list of articles I've written and books and magazines I've been published in so I could weigh in on Froggergate, but to be honest I think we're past the point of rational discussion. That, and I've already hit my quota of "fuck offs" from users for the day.

Back in my day, this could have all been handled at the local arcade with a roll of quarters.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

You've used this defense unfairly now multiple times in this thread. I don't believe people need to be a professional writer to comment or critique something they've read,

That's not what I said at all. I questioned what would be the poster's reaction to similarly offensive criticism of their work, whatever that work might be - the issue being discussed was attitude, not qualifications. I've in no way whatsoever suggested that anyone needed to be a professional journalist in order to offer criticism, far less "multiple times". I welcome, even now, civil and reasonable criticism. Idiots calling me the worst researcher ever and hoping I lose my job, when it's them who's made a mistake, is something else entirely.


Back in my day, this could have all been handled at the local arcade with a roll of quarters.

Yeah. In a sock.

[smork]

This is one of the better geek fights we've had around here in a while, I must admit.

I'll repeat myself here and say that I appreciate what Retro Gamer has to offer and always enjoy reading the articles. In fact, I was down at the newsagent today and just bought a copy.

Really, if you want to read a magazine about retro gaming written by gamers, what other choice do you have? I'm not going to bitch about perceived minor inaccuracies. If you read some of the other gaming magazines they are horribly written (look especially at Play or Game Informer) -- and they're just concentrating on new stuff. ( I do quite like Edge and GamesTM, though)

I say be grateful for what's available, myself.

[Alison DeMeyer]

I have noticed that other writers in Retro Gamer like a certain Mr. Carroll do take the time and effort to get the title of the game right, in this instant the game Knight Tyme from Mastertronic in issue 27. So Mr. Campbell is, as a matter of fact, slagging off his own people for saying ‘real journalists can’t be bothered with stupid game spellings’, when in truth, this is not the case. They can and they will.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

I have noticed that other writers in Retro Gamer like a certain Mr. Carroll do take the time and effort to get the title of the game right, in this instant the game Knight Tyme from Mastertronic in issue 27. So Mr. Campbell is, as a matter of fact, slagging off his own people for saying ‘real journalists can’t be bothered with stupid game spellings’, when in truth, this is not the case. They can and they will.

LOL :rocker:

[blissfulnoise]

I don't give a damn about the respect of cretins, and anyone who's such a simple-minded idiot that they care more about a jocularly dismissive rude word that they hear 50 times a day than about a GENUINELY offensive insult certainly falls into that category as far as I'm concerned. When you criticise the original poster for his stupid, hysterical and misguided abuse, then I might give a rat's arse-fur about what you think of my attitude. Until then, you can go and fuck yourself too, and so can your mum.

Tell your wife I said hello.

[bangtango]

That's because most of them don't give a shit. As you can plainly see by reading anything they write.

People around here criticize EGM and Gamepro without remembering they are under pressure to meet deadlines and they are reporting on the current generation of consoles. Each month, they have to put together stories, previews and reviews containing information that the newsstand competition (EGM, Game Informer, etc.) doesn't have, if at all possible. Otherwise their magazine falls short that month and doesn't meet the expectations of their readers. Those casual readers just grab the magazine that DOES have the information they need, if Gamepro (or EGM) doesn't have it.

What sort of pressure does Retro Gamer have? Is it that important to rush a story on Frogger II or any other game? Nobody is going to care if Retro Gamer sits on it an extra month. What sort of magazine will a guy who wants Frogger II information grab if Retro Gamer is late with the story? You can be damn sure a Gamepro or EGM reader who actually buys the magazine wants some damn news, rumors or screenshots on Halo 3 or some other AAA release and they want them now. Their writers may not be of the caliber you'd like them to be but they are under a hell of a lot more pressure than people who write about games that are decades old. Especially since guys covering current games are already in deep shit with a few dozen web sites reporting the same things they are before their magazines even go to press.

Realistically, a magazine like Retro Gamer that makes their hay covering old games and hardware can do many of these stories at their leisure, if they like. Nobody is beating down the door for the information contained within. Retro Gamer could run any number of stories if an article Frogger II needs to be polished up and it won't lose them any readers because Frogger II isn't that important in 2007.

Some of the fanzine, newsletter and internet writers around here who cover defunct Atari hardware or Tandy computers might find it to be a totally different animal if they actually had to write for a magazine that is forced to stay on top of current events or else they perish. I am in the minority here but I have enough decency to respect people who work for Game Informer, Gamepro and EGM because of the hard work and the long number of hours they put into the magazine, whether each issue is perfect or not. A lot of those magazines I mention are competing with each other and with a bunch of different web sites. Who is Retro Gamer even competing with? They have the market pretty much cornered on monthly newsstand publications writing about old video games. How many web sites, classic gaming or otherwise, have written feature articles on Frogger II in the past 12 months?

So I guess my point is that guys writing for magazines that are actually current and relevant in this day and age are rushed, they are under pressure and they have to submit something to meet a deadline whether it is flawless or not. So at least they have a friggin' excuse.

[Mayhem]

Well we do have deadlines as well for delivery at RG... though as you say, not as job threatening as a current gen magazine.

Simple matter imo, most writers in the game industry today don't seem to give much of a damn about it and use it as a stepping stone to something further (looks at many Edge writers). It used to be here in the UK where there'd be a number of prominent journos (including said Mr Campbell, and Mr Penn and Mr Rignall et al) that you'd trust to deliver. It would be interesting to read, AND if they said it was crap, then rest assured it would be crap.

And yes this is when they had stupidly short deadlines too... the internet has changed things. Personally I'm surprised many print mags still have as much popularity as they do...

[tom]

Actually I gotta be careful here. I once wrote a really harsh letter of complaint to the UK Official Xbox magazine about a clueless writer and him not knowing what he is writing about, doing little or no research, his drivel is irrelevant anyway, they shouldn’t waste time and paper with this guy……etc. Letter got printed too.
Next issue his column was gone (and his name had gone too). I felt quite bad for some time afterwards.

As for Edge magazine..don’t even get me started. I’ve must have written about 50 letters of complaints about their mistakes in the mags. Many of my letters got printed. Sometimes I got answers too, but mostly it was gibberish, but then they’re always on the ‘Edge’. They surely have the WORST writers in history. I do remember the first Edge Retro special is/was just full of mistakes, it’s unbelievable.

Games TM had a special on ‘scrolling fighters’, on consoles and they didn’t include Chuck Norris Superkicks (Xonox double-ender) for the VCS. They had written the first scrolling fighter appeared on some machine later than VCS (Can’t remember which machine without looking it up now, sorry).
I’ve written in and complained that they should have included Chuck Norris Superkicks, I received a nice letter back thanking me for my input, and a correction would be printed in the next issue.
There you go, professionals.

[bangtango]

Actually I gotta be careful here. I once wrote a really harsh letter of complaint to the UK Official Xbox magazine about a clueless writer and him not knowing what he is writing about, doing little or no research, his drivel is irrelevant anyway, they shouldn’t waste time and paper with this guy……etc. Letter got printed too.
Next issue his column was gone (and his name had gone too). I felt quite bad for some time afterwards.

Don't flatter yourself and don't feel bad. If they removed all traces of this guy from the magazine, I doubt you were the only one complaining about him.

[boatofcar]

It seems to me that writes for major publications like GamePro and EGM probably have better things to do than defend themselves on message boards.

(Excepting Mayhem, as he's coincidentally a poster here and a writer for the mag--he didn't register simply to defend himself and insult others)

[Steve W]

I'm still waiting on an article in Retro Gamer about the Texas Instruments 99/4A.

[idrougge]

If you ever once wrote "Q*bert" you were "fucked by mangling marketing dicks." The correct spelling would be "Cube-ert." After all, he hops on cubes, right? I pray to god they didn't hoodwink you on that one.

I would replace the asterisk with a dash, since the asterisk isn't really an asterisk, it's just stupid typography.

[idrougge]

I suppose a Definitive on the Odyssey 2 game catalog is out of the "question!"

Of course it is, because RG is a UK publication, and it's called the G7000 Videopac there. ;-)

[idrougge]

Fair enough, but a lot of time people just go "it's crap" and hardly bother to explain why. Instances like that annoy me to no end, please give some constructive arguments.

Do a search for "Retro Gamer" and you will find it, I think I've been constructive enough about it before.


Given many articles in RG are written using the words straight from the person(s) responsible for item X (be it game, company, hardware or event) then to say there's "little hard content" is a bit bemusing.

But between those pieces, you find lots and lots of filler material, such as the system introductions, endless lists, buyer's guides and reviews of Xbox games.


As for the Vectrex piece, it was only 4 months ago, surprised it seems so way back to you...

In that case, I really don't know if I've read it. Didn't you have one before?


And as for our current spelling diatribe, personally I'd spell it either way as the mood suited me. For sure it's spelt with 3 Es in the C64 rarity guide I manage, but that's the only time I'd make sure it was exact...

There's a difference between a buyer's guide and a journalistic text.

[idrougge]

Just out of curiosity what's with all the attitude? I thought you Brits were supposed to be a polite lot.

You haven't read AP, have you?

[idrougge]

As for Edge magazine..don’t even get me started. I’ve must have written about 50 letters of complaints about their mistakes in the mags. Many of my letters got printed. Sometimes I got answers too, but mostly it was gibberish, but then they’re always on the ‘Edge’. They surely have the WORST writers in history.

You haven't read an American magazine, have you? EGM and Gamepro are written like a children's edition of Doctor Dobb's Journal, with a layout like something between Reader's Digest and Seventeen.

[FoxyGamer]

You haven't read an American magazine, have you? EGM and Gamepro are written like a children's edition of Doctor Dobb's Journal, with a layout like something between Reader's Digest and Seventeen.

This is true; Retro Gamer is MILES AND MILES ahead of these mags, only reason to bring EGM or Gamepro to the bathroom is to wipe with the pages. (I didn't mean to sound so harsh here, I'm talking more about the design and subject matter than the writing)

I'm a graphic designer and have been dissapointed for years about the dismal quality of American gaming magazines- here is where Japan and England have us beat.

Everyone among us, I'm sure, toys with the idea of publishing one's own magazine that is done "the right way", but the readership for magazines in America in general is troubling; unless you're affiliated with a popular my space-style blogging site or a game store of epic proportions, you're pretty boned.

I don't see a fix for this in the forseeable future- as we have seen in this thread, the hardcore community craves research and due diligence, but magazines don't sell based on research articles alone.

I suppose after writing this my point is that the Reverend SC is correct on one thing- If you'd like to see something better, give it a shot. The only people who are going to create an American gaming magazine worth reading is us.

[bangtango]

This is true; Retro Gamer is MILES AND MILES ahead of these mags, only reason to bring EGM or Gamepro to the bathroom is to wipe with the pages. (I didn't mean to sound so harsh here, I'm talking more about the design and subject matter than the writing)

I'm a graphic designer and have been dissapointed for years about the dismal quality of American gaming magazines- here is where Japan and England have us beat.

Everyone among us, I'm sure, toys with the idea of publishing one's own magazine that is done "the right way", but the readership for magazines in America in general is troubling; unless you're affiliated with a popular my space-style blogging site or a game store of epic proportions, you're pretty boned.

I don't see a fix for this in the forseeable future- as we have seen in this thread, the hardcore community craves research and due diligence, but magazines don't sell based on research articles alone.

I suppose after writing this my point is that the Reverend SC is correct on one thing- If you'd like to see something better, give it a shot. The only people who are going to create an American gaming magazine worth reading is us.

I guess I have different expectations than the rest of the people around here. For $3-6 an issue, on average, I expect periodicals such as magazines to be somewhat disposable. Doesn't matter if they are video game magazines, music magazines or hunting magazines. I don't need the best writers in the US, UK or the world to be covering games and systems I want to read about. I just want information, in the form of release dates, reviews and any number of things I may want to know. When there are so many people writing for one magazine, a few spelling errors, factual errors or typos are to be expected. If I really really wanted something a little more polished, I'd buy a book or publication written by or credited to a single person and not a bunch of different people.

Everyone around here claims Gamepro sells because Americans are stupid. A magazine like that sells because they tend to cover most of the important bases, which include news, reviews, previews, tips, a free product (a lot of issues have a disc inside) and a decent price per issue. Their coverage may not be great but they do just enough of everything to satisfy the casual reader. Sort of a jack of all trades but a master of none. I've been reading that magazine forever and one thing that appeas to me is the fact it is just a basic, no frills read.

I'm not saying theirs is the best magazine in the world and I'm surprised they have stayed around so long, given fierce competition from other mags, but I have no problem picking up an issue. At least I don't put it down after reading it bitching about how there are no reviews, tips, news or previews. I find at least one or two of those things, if not more, completely missing from some of the more respected video game magazines out there and those magazines tend to have a much higher price per issue to boot.

[lurpak]

I'm becomining embarrased to be british right now with the representation on here, I would expect a journalist, a person who uses the English language as a tool of his proffesion to be able to use these tools more effectively than to resort to name calling, i'm supprised your posts have been allowed to remain, as I find them offensive, crude and inflaming.

I have not seen retro gamer realy since the magazine stitched up all its subscribers a couple of years ago and went "bust". But back then it was full of innacuracies and factual mistakes, not just simple spelling mistakes but glaring mistakes like "The Voice" system for the odyssey2 being listed as an add-on to the UK Videopac Version (sorry but this is my only area of expertise so I draw upon it, I wouldnt know about other systems) and not only was "the voice" never released in europe, it doesnt even fit the european models without modification. seems the researcher just browsed videopac/odyssey2 on the excelent "Odyssey2 Hompage" and reworded the information provided.

And so as for Fan webpages, I wonder where this magazine would be without them, since this seems to be the source of most of its research.

The lame excuse about the spelling of trademarked games being normalized to suit readers...does not cut the mustard, these games are identified by thier spelling. I'm no big fan of spelling geeks who like to think they are superior for spelling something correctly, but when you spell incorrectly just hold your hands up and say so, or ignore it, don't come back trying to make excuses, or trying to justify the mistake, face it, you were oblivious to this until it was pointed out, you did not conciously decide to make it more readable !!!

I will say though, since this is a UK magazine, I who have been into computers/consoles since 1978, I know for a fact that the apples products until the ipod have never had a foothold here, I have only ever seen one appleII in my life. Atari's 7800 not big, by the time we had that the c64 and spectrum were the players bar none!. and what is an A8 ???? never heard of it.. and so I think the magazine right to dismis consoles/'computers that never had a uk market.

Now in defecnce of us brits, and the reference to the "war" of independance, geesh you yanks have to big everything up ;) it wasnt realy a war was it, more of a big battle and we oly had 30k british soldiers there and lets face it they were a bit knackered after a 2 month boat trip as a quater of them died from diease, truth be said at the time america wasnt worth fighting for,as we were beging to have a little unrest from a much more imposing france (who did actualy help you one time ;) ) and our attention turned to keep hold of india which was a lot more financialy benificial to keep in the empire at that time...(true we dropped a bollock there and should have realy kicked your yankee buts) :) but its ok, we'll let you rejoin the empire if you ask nicely Im sure.

[anagrama]

Guess you can now all see why I said the "infamous" Stuart Campbell ;)

[TheRedEye]

don't come back trying to make excuses, or trying to justify the mistake, face it, you were oblivious to this until it was pointed out, you did not conciously decide to make it more readable !!!

Yeah, but he read the AP, remember?

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

I'm becomining embarrased to be british right now with the representation on here, I would expect a journalist, a person who uses the English language as a tool of his proffesion to be able to use these tools more effectively than to resort to name calling, i'm supprised your posts have been allowed to remain, as I find them offensive, crude and inflaming.

That's because you're a cunt.

[lurpak]

That's because you're a cunt.

Yes I am but thats the only bit of factual writing you have ever done aparently,

at least I can construct a argument, and use words as a tool to convey my thoughts effectively,its not even my business so how bad does that make you.

your an embarrasment.

everyone reading this thread thinks so

maybe you should give up the writing thing and ask nicely if they will take you back at your pervious job (which I have no doubt you failed in that too)

nayways, to save you having to think what you splurge out Ive provided a link to make it easy for you.

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/pages/careers/careershome.html

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

Okay, I think this one's run its course and then some if we're just going to devolve into name-calling.

Thanks everybody for showing up. The final scores will be posted in the hallway at the end of the day!