Well, that was only a matter of time: Wii Passes Xbox 360 in Worldwide Sales (9/14) [Archive] - Page 2

Rob2600

09-16-2007, 12:03 AM

Hell look how Rob starts most of his post "you are wrong."

You are wrong. :) Seriously though, you are. I've only started a few posts that way.

When someone is wrong, I point it out. It's okay. There's nothing wrong with being wrong. We're all wrong sometimes, including me.

In this case, facts are facts. Nintendo is outselling the competition by more than 2-to-1. Wii software sales are very high too, and it's not because there are only five games available for it. There are almost twice as many games out for the Wii than there are for the PlayStation 3 and the PlayStation 3 has been out slightly longer.

I apologize for pointing out one of Sony's shortcomings. Please go easy on me.

Rob2600

09-16-2007, 12:21 AM

Sure when you put out only a few games worth playing those games will sell well. Give me a total of ALL wii games vs ALL 360 games.

I don't mean to bore people with statistics, but I'm really trying to figure out where this whole "Wii games aren't selling" nonsense came from, especially since so many figures prove otherwise.

Again, according to Wikipedia.org's "List of best-selling video games" entry:

Xbox 360 games that have sold one million copies or more:

1. Gears of War (4 million)
2. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (3 million, includes PC release)
3. Crackdown (1.5 million)
4. Bioshock (1.5 million shipped, includes PC release)
5. Call of Duty 2 (1.4 million)
6. Saints Row (1.4 million shipped)
7. Lost Planet: Extreme Condition (1.37 million)
8. Dead Rising (1.22 million)
9. Madden NFL 07 (1.1 million in US)
10. Perfect Dark Zero (1 million)
11. Dead or Alive 4 (1 million)
12. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter (1 million)

Wii games that have sold one million copies or more, as of July 25, 2007:

1. Wii Sports (8.32 million) (packaged with system in all regions except Japan)
2. Wii Play (4.49 million)
3. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (3.61 million)
4. Wario Ware: Smooth Moves (1.82 million)
5. Super Paper Mario (1.25 million)
6. Mario Party 8 (1.03 million)
7. Rayman Raving Rabbids (1 million)
8. Red Steel (1 million)

PlayStation 3 games that have sold one million copies or more:

1. Resistance: Fall of Man (2 million)
2. MotorStorm (1 million)

As you can see, the PlayStation 3 has two 1 million sellers in eight months (totaling 3 million), the Xbox 360 has twelve 1 million sellers in twenty months (totaling roughly 18 million), and the Wii has seven 1 million sellers, excluding Wii Sports, in eight months (totaling 14.2 million). 18 million in twenty months vs. 14.2 million in eight months. You do the math and tell me which one is better.

Buyatari

09-16-2007, 12:38 AM

I don't mean to bore people with statistics, but I'm really trying to figure out where this whole "Wii games aren't selling" nonsense came from, especially since so many figures prove otherwise.

Go ahead. Bore me with statistics. Show me the totals for ALL 360 games sold and all Wii games sold. Not your personal list of top ten games....ALL games.

Rob2600

09-16-2007, 12:44 AM

Go ahead. Bore me with statistics. Show me the totals for ALL 360 games sold and all Wii games sold. Not your personal list of top ten games....ALL games.

I didn't list my personal top ten games, I listed this generation's games that have sold at least one million copies.

It's difficult having a discussion with people who don't read and who don't believe in facts. Now I know what it must be like to deal with George W. Bush.

Icarus Moonsight

09-16-2007, 01:05 AM

To paraphrase: "Don't bore me with statistics... IT'S WHAT PLANTS CRAVE!" LOL
just reading this thread...
/me :frustrated:

Then I realize, when you're dealing with certain individuals debate is useless. You either have to walk away from the conversation (OKA agreeing to disagree), engage them in a pissing war or convert to their point of view. Any other course of action is futile.

Now before this thread explodes and a decent topic has to be locked, let the dust settle and we'll pick it up latter when an outcome becomes a bit clearer or something of note occurs that affects the topic. Judging by the past that's where this thread is headed, unfortunately. Smokey the Gamer Bear sayz, "Remeber, only you can prevent forest fires... and net arguments." ;)

Buyatari

09-16-2007, 02:04 AM

I didn't list my personal top ten games, I listed this generation's games that have sold at least one million copies.

It's difficult having a discussion with people who don't read and who don't believe in facts. Now I know what it must be like to deal with George W. Bush.

You listed a partial list of games. Doesn't matter where it was listed its a partial listing.

You didn't read. Thats why I put ALL in caps for ya several times. You still post partial lists as your proof.

I never disputed your facts just your logic (lack of) based on incomplete data.

Buyatari

09-16-2007, 02:07 AM

Rob2600

09-16-2007, 01:01 PM

You listed a partial list of games. Doesn't matter where it was listed its a partial listing.

You didn't read. Thats why I put ALL in caps for ya several times. You still post partial lists as your proof.

I never disputed your facts just your logic (lack of) based on incomplete data.

Nintendo has released software sales data. Microsoft has outdated or incorrect information. That's why I can't post complete sales data. I'm just posting whatever information is available.

"Total Wii games sold as of June 30, 2007: 44.82 million"

I was able to find one web site with Xbox 360 software sales data, but it seems to be outdated and/or incorrect. The article from 9/13/2007 states:

"Microsoft also said that since last November when the Wii and PS3 launched, gamers have bought more software for Xbox 360 (24.3 million units) than for PS3 and Wii combined (19.8 million units)."

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/news/?id=17422

So, according to Microsoft, fewer than 19.8 million games have been sold for the Wii, but according to Nintendo's official financial report, 44.82 million games have been sold for the Wii. This leads me to believe Microsoft is using outdated information, perhaps on purpose.

j_factor

09-16-2007, 05:23 PM

Perhaps Microsoft is using North America numbers or something, and Nintendo's numbers are worldwide. I do find it a bit dubious that MS bragged about taking too long to drop the price. wtf?

NinjaJoey23

09-16-2007, 06:18 PM

These folks' arguments against the Wii are bordering on ridiculous. No, I don't own a Wii. I own a 360, and I am satisfied with it. Halo 3 is the most anticipated game for me, BUT...

The whole "Nintendo selling more doesn't mean it's a better console" deal is bullshit. So is the Disney vs Rambo or Honda vs Ferrari crap. When everyone looks at the last generation and asks "Who won?," the answer is the PS2. No one disagrees. Why? Because the PS2 sold the most units, and I suppose had the best games. Right? Well, that's all up to personal opinion. I didn't really like the PS2 as much as most people. I think that the PS1/PS2/PS3 controller is abysmal. But, sales numbers speak louder than me on a soapbox, so I suppose it was the best system, because THE MOST PEOPLE THOUGHT SO. That's why it was the best selling.

Obviously, the most people think that the Wii is worth their money. I, personally, do not. But, no one really cares what I think. They care what I buy. You can scream about the entirety of the 360 library being better than the entirety of the Wii library until you are blue in the face. But, in this case, sales numbers speak louder. You can cry about the Wii not catering to the hardcore crowd. Well, the hardcore crowd obviously isn't big enough to account for enough sales to drive the "hardcore" 360 to the top, eh? Nintendo is making the most money. They sold the most units. They're selling plenty of software. They have won, so far. Deal with it.

Hell, if the 360 were selling the most, argument would be completely on the opposite end of the spectrum. All of the anti-Nintendo'ers would be saying "Look how much better the 360 is selling than the Wii. That makes it better!" and then they would all masturbate while playing Halo 3 in high definition.

Rob2600

09-16-2007, 06:51 PM

Perhaps Microsoft is using North America numbers or something, and Nintendo's numbers are worldwide.

Good point. I wonder why Microsoft would only release software sales data for North America though. What about Japan? What about Europe? What about Australia?

I've done some math and have come up with some estimations based on Microsoft's figures, assuming they are limited to North America. Since November 2006, in North America, 24.3 million Xbox 360 games have been sold and roughly 14 million Wii games have been sold (roughly 9.3 million excluding Wii Sports).

That means on average, in North America, 2.7 million Xbox 360 games have been sold each month and roughly 1.5 million Wii games have been sold each month (roughly 1 million excluding Wii Sports).

Of course, all of my estimates are based on the assumption that Microsoft is including Wii Sports in its sales figures.

In North America, Xbox 360 software has been selling better than Wii software, which is great, but why is Microsoft withholding worldwide sales data?

jsiucho

09-16-2007, 08:29 PM

Good point. I wonder why Microsoft would only release software sales data for North America though. What about Japan? What about Europe? What about Australia?

I've done some math and have come up with some estimations based on Microsoft's figures, assuming they are limited to North America. Since November 2006, in North America, 24.3 million Xbox 360 games have been sold and roughly 14 million Wii games have been sold (roughly 9.3 million excluding Wii Sports).

That means on average, in North America, 2.7 million Xbox 360 games have been sold each month and roughly 1.5 million Wii games have been sold each month (roughly 1 million excluding Wii Sports).

Of course, all of my estimates are based on the assumption that Microsoft is including Wii Sports in its sales figures.

In North America, Xbox 360 software has been selling better than Wii software, which is great, but why is Microsoft withholding worldwide sales data?

Maybe MS is not as worried about telling the world how many games they have sold. They just know they are on top

JS

agbulls

09-16-2007, 08:31 PM

Maybe MS is not as worried about telling the world how many games they have sold. They just know they are on top

JS

Isn't that the whole damn point of this conversation? They ARE NOT on top worldwide. Ahhhhhhhh, the insanity!

Melf

09-16-2007, 11:10 PM

And since when is Nintendo in a different category? What sense does that make? Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are all in the video game business.

From what I remember, it's always been Nintendo that has said MS and Sony weren't competition. As soon as the Wii started selling, there was Reggie bragging about outselling the competition.

I'm still waiting for the big 3rd party announcements, but so far there's been nothing. If NIGHTS 2 is delayed, then the only major 3rd party game coming to the Wii is Guitar Hero 2, which is coming to every console under the Sun.

Unless publishers are going to announce all their heavy hitters after the holiday season, which makes no sense, then there are really no major games that aren't 1st party slated for the Wii for the foreseeable future. The Wii is selling like gangbusters, so why are there still no major franchises even announced? What's it cost to give a list? I know the whole "they underestimated the popularity" and "they're just now shifting resources" excuses will be trotted out, right after the latest NPD numbers, but there's no explanation for companies making announcements. Shit, if you're just now developing, you could at least mention what's in the works. All the big news is from Nintendo itself, and these much interested 3rd parties have been deathly silent.

I guess Umbrella Chronicles could be considered big, but when you consider that other consoles are getting RE5, it doesn't seem all that major anymore. I guess the Wii is going to go against games like Halo 3, Skate, and GTA 4 from now until mid 2008 on the strength of Nintendo's own titles. That's great for Nintendo, not so great for 3rd parties.

Rob2600

09-16-2007, 11:29 PM

I'm still waiting for the big 3rd party announcements, but so far there's been nothing. If NIGHTS 2 is delayed, then the only major 3rd party game coming to the Wii is Guitar Hero 2, which is coming to every console under the Sun.

Unless publishers are going to announce all their heavy hitters after the holiday season, which makes no sense, then there are really no major games that aren't 1st party slated for the Wii for the foreseeable future.

September 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

MySims
Dance Dance Revolution: Hottest Party
Dewy's Adventure

October 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

FIFA Soccer 08
NBA Live 08
Tony Hawk's Proving Ground
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
EA Playground
The Sims 2: Castaway
Rockstar Table Tennis
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Need for Speed ProStreet
The Simpsons Game
Manhunt 2

November 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

Geometry Wars: Galaxies
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga
Medal of Honor Heroes 2
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3
Godzilla: Unleashed
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Anniversary
NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams
Nirtobike
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
Soulcalibur Legends
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
WWE SmackDown! vs. Raw 2008
Bully: Scholarship Edition
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games
Trauma Center: New Blood

December 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

Rygar: The Battle of Argus

That's not counting any of the minor third-party releases.

walrusmonger

09-16-2007, 11:36 PM

out of that whole list only a couple interest me to the point of a rental, glad I sold my wii ;)

Melf

09-16-2007, 11:50 PM

Geez, that's the list? How many of those are ports? I'm asking about the exclusives. I've read that a lot of publishers have shifted focus towards the Wii, but nothing major has been announced. Just about every game on that list is coming for the 360 and PS3, and even the PS2. A couple are already released on other consoles (like Table Tennis, but I can see how that would be different on the Wii).

Where are the big franchises? I've been asking this same question for months, and the Wii's just about a year old. You can perhaps justify the lack of big releases during that first year (the 360's first year was highlighted by Oblivion and Dead Rising, that's about it), but nothing's even been announced.

digdug

09-16-2007, 11:54 PM

I've said this before to someone else, but will reiterate ...

You DO know what forum and page you're on, right? This is a Classic Gaming fourm. In other words, we don't really care if things are for a specific age group. You know what really matters?

If the game is FUN. Period.

You might want to hang out in the PS3 or 360 forum on gamefaqs if that's how you really feel -- and you're totally entitled to your opinion, don't get me wrong. But you aren't going to find ANY support here with sentiments like that. In fact, you're only going to alienate yourself.

Just a couple words of advice...as you're going to find very few fanboys in here for any specific new console. Although, we do admittedly have classic gaming system fanboys. :p

I have been collecting for close to 10 years now. I do know this is a classic gaming site. NO i am not a fan boy. I feel that nintendo doesn't make enough games for my taste this time around. I have played the games i just posted to death on the 64 and Gamecube. I have played the WWII shooters, and mindless fighting games also forever. I like what Nintendo does with their DS system by taking chances with games that not many others will try, just wish they would follow suit with the Wii.

I am far from an "FANBOY" as you seem to have put. If anything I am a "FANBOY" of GOOD games don't care on which system it is on. I own a PS3, X-box 360 and every Nintendo system except for the Wii.

j_factor

09-16-2007, 11:57 PM

Isn't Red Steel a major franchise now? It's sold over a million copies and a sequel has been announced. The fact that it's a franchise that's exclusive to the Wii doesn't detract from it; rather, it just makes it that much better for the system.

Oh, and there's also the sequel to Tales of Symphonia, No More Heroes (personally my most anticipated Wii game), Trauma Center 2, Nitrobike, Dragon Quest Swords, Ghost Squad, Rayman Raving Rabbids 2, Soul Calibur Legends, Zack & Wiki, Bleach, Deca Sporta, Dragon Blade, Cruis'n, de Blob, EA Playground, Smartypants, Mario & Sonic, etc. etc.

digdug

09-16-2007, 11:58 PM

September 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

MySims
Dance Dance Revolution: Hottest Party
Dewy's Adventure

October 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

FIFA Soccer 08
NBA Live 08
Tony Hawk's Proving Ground
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
EA Playground
The Sims 2: Castaway
Rockstar Table Tennis
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Need for Speed ProStreet
The Simpsons Game
Manhunt 2

November 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

Geometry Wars: Galaxies
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga
Medal of Honor Heroes 2
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3
Godzilla: Unleashed
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Anniversary
NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams
Nirtobike
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
Soulcalibur Legends
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
WWE SmackDown! vs. Raw 2008
Bully: Scholarship Edition
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games
Trauma Center: New Blood

December 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

Rygar: The Battle of Argus

That's not counting any of the minor third-party releases.

I don't see any of those 3rd party games pushing system sales. If anything most of those may be in the bargain bin by the 1st of Febuary. Okay maybe Soul Caliber and Nights (but I think it got pushed back til next year).

Rob2600

09-17-2007, 12:22 AM

I don't see any of those 3rd party games pushing system sales.

The combination of all of those games will result in an excellent library overall...and an excellent library with plenty of variety is what sells consoles. Nintendo has been supplying most of the big, hot titles so far and third parties have been supplying variety. That seems to be a great combination and has resulted in a strong library of nearly 100 games.

Anyway, I think Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure, Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock, Manhunt 2, Medal of Honor Heroes 2, Soulcalibur Legends, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, WWE SmackDown! vs. Raw 2008, and Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games will be popular, if not other games, too.

Icarus Moonsight

09-17-2007, 03:10 AM

I just think people are pissed at Nintendo cause they wanted to play Mario Galaxy on their PS3 or 360. I mean, Nintendo was supposed to be console-software only by 2005-6 right? LOL

agbulls

09-17-2007, 09:49 AM

I just think people are pissed at Nintendo cause they wanted to play Mario Galaxy on their PS3 or 360. I mean, Nintendo was supposed to be console-software only by 2005-6 right? LOL

That's right -- I think many of us totally forgot those conversations. I remember the old "how long until Nintendo just makes games for Sony and Microsoft" conversations. Damn does that look stupid now, regardless of your personal take on the Wii's software.

I think we should look to dig up one of those old threads, it might be fun.

YoshiM

09-17-2007, 01:08 PM

Lessee....what do we have on this list....

September 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

MySims -original
Dance Dance Revolution: Hottest Party -original
Dewy's Adventure-original

So far September's all original stuff. EGM panned on MySims, think they gave it a 6 overall as the building I think got tedious.

October 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

FIFA Soccer 08-multiplatform
NBA Live 08-multiplatform
Tony Hawk's Proving Ground-multiplatform
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure-original
EA Playground-original
The Sims 2: Castaway-multiplatform
Rockstar Table Tennis-port
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock-multiplatform
Need for Speed ProStreet-multiplatform
The Simpsons Game-multiplatform
Manhunt 2-multiplatform

Two original Wii only games amongst multiplatform releases and a single port. I didn't realize Manhunt was multiplatform-PS2 and PSP as well as Wii.

November 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

Geometry Wars: Galaxies-port (sorta)
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga-multiplatform
Medal of Honor Heroes 2-multiplatform
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3-multiplatform
Godzilla: Unleashed-multiplatform
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Anniversary-multiplatform
NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams-original
Nirtobike-original
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2-original
Soulcalibur Legends-original
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles-original
WWE SmackDown! vs. Raw 2008-multiplatform
Bully: Scholarship Edition-port
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games-original
Trauma Center: New Blood-original

November so far is looking to be pretty good with 3rd party original titles. Not sure if I'd classify Geometry Wars as an "original" or a "port"-I'm kinda leaning toward "port". Also note that I'm not counting the DS as part of the multiplatform if the game's only on Wii and DS (like Raving Rabbids 2). It's kinda funny how some of the multiplatform stuff includes the PSP and the PS2 yet not the other next gen consoles.

December 2007 major third-party releases for Wii:

Rygar: The Battle of Argus-port

That aside, it'll be really telling what sales will be of the multiplatform titles amongst the systems. Will the third parties get decent sales on the Wii or will the other systems take the lion's share?

Rob2600

09-17-2007, 03:16 PM

Lessee....what do we have on this list....

...

So far September's all original stuff. EGM panned on MySims, think they gave it a 6 overall as the building I think got tedious.

...

Two original Wii only games amongst multiplatform releases and a single port. I didn't realize Manhunt was multiplatform-PS2 and PSP as well as Wii.

...

November so far is looking to be pretty good with 3rd party original titles. Not sure if I'd classify Geometry Wars as an "original" or a "port"-I'm kinda leaning toward "port". Also note that I'm not counting the DS as part of the multiplatform if the game's only on Wii and DS (like Raving Rabbids 2). It's kinda funny how some of the multiplatform stuff includes the PSP and the PS2 yet not the other next gen consoles.

...

That aside, it'll be really telling what sales will be of the multiplatform titles amongst the systems. Will the third parties get decent sales on the Wii or will the other systems take the lion's share?

Keep in mind, that's not counting any of the minor third-party releases. There are at least twice as many games as that being released; I just listed the big ones.

By the way, has anyone played Ninjabread Man? It was released in Europe for the PlayStation 2 in 2005 and is now coming to the Wii next week. It looks silly, which I like. Is it good?

jajaja

09-17-2007, 05:56 PM

I voted "I'm not convinced yet -- ask me again this time next year.". Altho Wii has pretty much taken the world by storm i still think its too early to tell the final result. Where i live in Europe Wii has been very easily avalible for about 2 months now. The last 3 weeks or so the sales have been going down in Japan (altho this is way to early to say if its a trend). So even if its selling out pretty much everywhere in the USA i'd say its too early to say anything about the final worldwide result.

One thing that is funny with this generation is that its like only PS3 VS Wii. Its like 360 is forgotten, and that its totally out of the question to be #1, wonder why its like this.

GarrettCRW

09-18-2007, 12:49 AM

It should be noted that the multiplatform titles and ports, if worth their development costs, should be, for the first time since the 16-bit era, intrinsically different on the Wii due to the vastly different controls.

esquire

09-18-2007, 02:02 AM

I've said this before to someone else, but will reiterate ...

You DO know what forum and page you're on, right? This is a Classic Gaming fourm. In other words, we don't really care if things are for a specific age group.

I don't want to be harsh, but the manner in which you dismissed the prior poster demands a reply:

First, last time I checked this post is in the "Modern Gaming" thread.

Second, please do not make assumptions for all members in this forrum when using the word "we". You are not the self annointed spokeperson for DP and you certainly do not speak for me or many others in this forum.

As for MY OPINION, I do care what specific age group games and consoles are made for. I could care less how fun "Shrek the Third", "Mario Party 8" or other kiddie games are, I am simply not going to pay for them nor am I am going to play them.

Also, I would not count sales of Wii Sports or Wii play to boost the Wii's software numbers. The former came with the system and the latter came with a controller and was really just justification for Nintendo to tack on some extra $$ for the already then scarce Wiimote. Although it is software, it also hardware. I would categorize it closer in the category of something like the UMD's for the PSP.

There is no doubt that the sales numbers for the Wii are very high. There is no denial. Does that make it a superior system? Does that mean it has better games? Does that mean it will last longer than the PS3 or 360? The answer to all of these is of course not. Why do we even care about overall sales numbers at this point? How is it going to change anything? Sure it makes for interesting conversation such as this thread, but nothing more. It serves nothing more than to ignite the fires for Fanboyism, which I find it interesting since you are the one accusing others of fanboyism. If anything the OP is fanboyism.

By analogy, lets look at an older console debate - PS1 vs Saturn. I find it very ironic that when numbers were used to show the superiority of the PS1 over the Saturn, the exact opposite argument was made - numbers don't mean anything, the Saturn is much better, blah, blah blah. Or the library for the PS1 was filled with a lot a crap games which inflated the size of its games library.

I have all 3 modern systems - Wii, 360 and PS3, and of the three, my Wii gets the least play. It has been collecting dust for the last few months. The last game I played was Super Paper Mario. I don't need to replay games I've already played or owned simply because now I can play it with the Wiimote. Enough of the crappy ports (Far Cry, Splinter Cell). the deluge of re-releases (RE4, Driver, Prince of Persia, MK Armageddon) and Gamecube graphics releases (GT Pro Race Driver, Rampage, Monster 4x4) and give us gamers who do care about the age group of games something good to play via third party originals on top of the Nintendo releases (Zelda, Super Paper Mario, Metroid)....and no, Party Games do not count.

Sorry to rant, but you caught me at the end of a bad day, and this thread finally set me off. :grrr:

esquire

09-18-2007, 02:10 AM

You can't deny the numbers and Nintendo made the right move. Instead of taking on Microsoft and Sony head to head they kept the segment they were strongest with and added a new one no one cared about. So yeah I guess it is frustrating to see. Its like seeing your favorite rock band being outsold by the newest backstreet boys cd. Sure they are both listed in the ROCK category but we are clearly talking about a differnet audience here.

This has to be one of my favorite analogies of all time, and the funny thing is, it is so right on the money.

neuropolitique

09-18-2007, 07:44 AM

I could care less how fun "Shrek the Third", "Mario Party 8" or other kiddie games are, I am simply not going to pay for them nor am I am going to play them.

just thought that was an interesting comment. If you don't play for fun, what do you play for?

esquire

09-18-2007, 08:07 AM

just thought that was an interesting comment. If you don't play for fun, what do you play for?

First off, I never said I don't play games for fun, I merely stated that certain games which may be considered fun by their respective age group and audience (such as the games I listed in my OP), will not grab or hold my attention. Nice try though.

"Fun" is all relative and not general as you would like to paint a brush with in your comment. What might be fun for one person may not be fun for another. Take for instance rhythm games. These games may "fun" for some people, while others dislike them. It is a matter of opinion. Regardless, no matter how much I may dislike that genre, I cannot deny that the game holds an audience and is therefore "fun" for some people.

They could make a Wii game called "Patty Cake" that might be fun or entertaining to a 5 year old but that doesn't mean I am going to play it.

What might hold a child's attention or a casual gamer or even a newbie is not necessarily going to necessarily make it entertaining for me. Nintendo it seems has chosen to target the above gamer types with their marketing of the Wii.

I prefer next gen games to have great graphics, to be in depth, whether it has a great story line or requires a challenge of the mind such as strategy games, not necessarily whether I can wave a Wiimote really quick. Take for instance "Lair" on the PS3, an otherwise gorgeous game with a decent storyline (flying a dragon in a fantasy world war) that has been ruined by gimmicky controls because Sony wanted to be like the big N.

Rob2600

09-18-2007, 12:49 PM

There is no doubt that the sales numbers for the Wii are very high. There is no denial. Does that make it a superior system? Does that mean it has better games? Does that mean it will last longer than the PS3 or 360? The answer to all of these is of course not. Why do we even care about overall sales numbers at this point? How is it going to change anything? Sure it makes for interesting conversation such as this thread, but nothing more.

One of the reasons Nintendo fans are touting the Wii's high sales figures is because that's what Sony fans had done for nine years (1997 to 2006). Now, the tables have turned and Nintendo fans are giving Sony fans a taste of their own medicine. Sony fans hate it! So far, they've had to put up with nine months of bragging and have been complaining about it nonstop. Nine years vs. nine months. Evidently, Sony fans can dish it out, but they can't take it.

Sony fans claim to like mature adult games. If that's true, then accept your comeuppance like mature adults and stop being childish sore losers.

By analogy, lets look at an older console debate - PS1 vs Saturn. I find it very ironic that when numbers were used to show the superiority of the PS1 over the Saturn, the exact opposite argument was made - numbers don't mean anything, the Saturn is much better, blah, blah blah. Or the library for the PS1 was filled with a lot a crap games which inflated the size of its games library.

You're right. Sega fans insisted that sales data was meaningless, but Sony fans insisted that sales data meant everything!

The same argument applied to the PlayStation vs. the Nintendo 64. Sony fans were unrelenting with their sales data arguments and "kiddie game" arguments. If Super Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie were "kiddie games," then why weren't Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon? What about Goldeneye 007 and Turok: Dinosaur Hunter? Sony fans couldn't answer that and resorted to sales data arguments.

Anyway, when Sony was on top, sales data was important, but now that Nintendo is on top, all of a sudden sales data is meaningless? Make up your minds, Sony fans.

Again, consider all of the bragging about Wii sales data as payback for nine years worth of bragging about PlayStation and PlayStation 2 sales data.

j_factor

09-18-2007, 01:31 PM

By analogy, lets look at an older console debate - PS1 vs Saturn. I find it very ironic that when numbers were used to show the superiority of the PS1 over the Saturn, the exact opposite argument was made - numbers don't mean anything, the Saturn is much better, blah, blah blah. Or the library for the PS1 was filled with a lot a crap games which inflated the size of its games library.

And those sales numbers were a big deal. Sales don't automatically dictate which system has a better library of games at that point in time, but they do indicate a lot about the systems' futures. To those of us that preferred the Saturn, the sales numbers made a big impact. It was the combination of low sales and Bernie Stolar's retardedness that killed the system. To anybody who thinks sales don't matter, try being a Saturn owner in 1998.

Icarus Moonsight

09-19-2007, 02:54 AM

The way I see it the sixaxis' motion control is turning out to be just a gimmick. How well are you going to utilize a control scheme when it's just tacked on last minute vesus it being the primary vision and focus?

Underestimate your opponent and you're doomed to fail. Either by your own arrogance or by being bested by an unexpected strength. I've stated this before but, it bears repeating. Comming into this generation Nintendo was hungry for success, Sony was complacent and assumed it was already theirs and MS yearned to prove that they belong. To quote Meatloaf, "Two out of three ain't bad." :)

jajaja

09-19-2007, 10:48 AM

j_factor

09-19-2007, 10:42 PM

How do you know it was just tacked on in the last minute?

The six-axis controller was a change in plans after the original PS3 controller design was widely scorned. If I'm not mistaken, the six-axis was not announced at all until E3 '06 (which was well after the Revolution remote was unveiled). Before that, it was the boomerang.

jajaja

09-20-2007, 06:45 AM

The six-axis controller was a change in plans after the original PS3 controller design was widely scorned. If I'm not mistaken, the six-axis was not announced at all until E3 '06 (which was well after the Revolution remote was unveiled). Before that, it was the boomerang.

It might be, but how can you tell that the motion sensing wasnt worked on before the announcement of both the Wii controller and the PS3 controller? Just because we didnt see anything about it doesnt mean it was put together in a hurry. Things like this needs to be researched, tested and made. I doubt its just something you can put together in the last minute.

Rob2600

09-20-2007, 11:01 AM

According to Wikipedia.org's "PlayStation 3 accessories" entry:

"At E3 2005, Sony showcased their 'boomerang' design for the PlayStation 3's controller. Accompanied by much criticism, this design was later abandoned. Sony later stated that the original controller 'was very clearly designed as a design concept, and was never intended to be the final controller, despite what everybody said about it.'

The original design was replaced by an upgraded, wireless version of the DualShock 2 controller at E3 2006."

Kittens_for_Peace

09-20-2007, 11:17 AM

http://www.thekittenpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/kitten-pic.jpg

agbulls

09-20-2007, 12:01 PM

http://www.thekittenpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/kitten-pic.jpg

Whatever that is, it doesn't work.

Dumsday

09-20-2007, 04:50 PM

Anyone ever go here?

www.vgchartz.com

I know there is some question about the accuracy of their North American numbers since nobody seems to track retail sales of hardware in NA (hardware companies perfer to say how many they sold to retailers) the way they do in Japan.

Still...it allows some fun comparisons. Plot World, Compare Consoles and check the "Align Launches" button. PS3 and 360 are in a dead heat worldwide (that is, PS3 now in week 45 vs. where the 360 was in week 45). The Wii line on this graph looks down at the other two and laughs.

Of course, do this same chart for "America" and things don't look so nice for the PS3 and even the Wii has a much smaller lead.

Do this same chart for Japan and you get really confused about who will "win".

My hope is that whatever happens, none of these three companies decide to cut and run after 3 or 4 years. I really hope they drag this generation out as long as possible (which probably isn't a good thing for the Wii) because I think that when the average consumer compares a PS3 game with a PS4 game they aren't going to see enough of an advantage to need to buy the PS4 (or Xbox 720 if you prefer).

This industry has largely been bolstered by new hardware driving new gameplay possibilities and new graphics. As games get closer to reality in terms of models, animation, textures etc then by definition the jump for the next generation will be smaller. Maybe we're already seeing that now...are the casual gamers saying "Meh - the 360 looks good, but it's not THAT different from the PS2. But the Wii...I've never played a game that way before"??? OK another topic for another time....

ozyr

09-20-2007, 10:11 PM

It truly is sad to see all the bashing here, in both directions. Why can't you guys (and gals) just deal with it, play the system you like, and get on with life. I can't believe how much time you waste in this silly debate.

Oh well, back to playing with my Wii. Yeah, I have one, and play games on it daily too. Does it make me a fan boy, or think the Wii is the best? Simple answer - NO! I only play it because it is the most current system I own, plain and simple. Deal with it (you damn fanboys you! and that goes for PS3, 360, and Wii).

Just play games you like... how hard is that... Ugh!

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