Goal Achieved: Completed PS2 RPG Collection 163 games (Pic Alert)

[lendelin]

Is this a boxset for the games or just anime? I couldn't find it on their website and I never got into the anime series so I don't know >.>

It is a Special Edition boxset for .hack//G.U. Vol.1 with the game, a figurine and a DVD, it was an exclusive from GS/EBGames.

You can find it in picture 1 of the OP, it is the oversized box.

The description can be found here...

LINK:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73673

...in the special list for deluxe sets after the regular list.

[lendelin]

Sorry to resurrect this thread. One of the posters addressed the money involved in collecting these current RPGs, and that made me really curious how much I actually spend on these 137 games over a time period of six years. I did the math.

Since I have a very good memory for stuff like this, I made a careful estimation and added it up. I know how wishful thinking skews memory, so I added $250 to the total in order to account for the selective memory factor.

Lots of the deluxe sets were gifts, keep that in mind. Around 70% of the games were bought new.

Total: $2050, that means $14.9 per game

If I include resales on ebay for the RPGs collected (did it for the last year, unfortunately I started to do it very late)):

Total: $1750, that means $12.7 per game

Over a time period of six years:

$292 per year
$25 every month for the last six years

If I had picked up some more games on sale not only for myself but for resale in the last six years, the price per game would probably be around $7 to $8.

This is actually not too bad. There were really great sales in the last couple of years, and I was surprised that wre quite a few games under $10, and I was amazed how many were in the $10 to $15 range.

The key is to wait until games are on sale. If you want a lot of games you have to be a cheapskate (or own a gamestore for used games).

[lendelin]

Sorry for the bumb; just a try to get the following items I'm still missing. If you have one of them to sell please shoot me a pm.

Games (variants):

SMT: Nocturne with soundtrack CD
Inuyasha with Trading Card
Digimon World 4 without Trading Card
Xenosaga III with Lenticular Cover

Guides:

Drakan: The Ancients’ Gates
Evergrace (got it)
Forever Kingdom
Jade Cocoon 2 (got it)
King’s Field Ancient City
Monster Rancher 3
Okage Shadow King
Orphen Scion of Sorcery

[Hwj_Chim]

nice collection. I love it when people post pictures of their games. also would you consider a game like EverBlue 2 a border line game?

[lendelin]

nice collection. I love it when people post pictures of their games. also would you consider a game like EverBlue 2 a border line game?

Everblue 2 is one of my favorite games, and I proposed it in this thread (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73673) as a candidate for the borderline category.

I lost against others, and even worse, I lost against my own advocatus diaboli.

[lendelin]

I updated the last picture (scans) in the second original post because I got recently Innocent Life and Baroque on sale.

But this is not why I bump this old thread.

The reason is that I want to thank DP member OREMITES for his generosity and kindness.

3 weeks ago I posted (2 posts above) that I'm still missing some variants and guides. I had little to trade, he wasn't interested in the stuff I had, and of course I offered to pay for it. However, he just sent me the guides for Evergrace and Jade Cocoon 2 for free!

Great guy, generous act to help out a fellow collector, and it is just good to know that there are still nice and altruistic guys out there! Thanks!

PS: I don't care if he's embarrassed to be named. :)

[Jisho23]

Its a shame I have Nocturne w/ the cd... I ardently refuse to give that game up.

Given I'm trying to accomplish what you are doing (minus variants) its really cool to see it done.

edit: did not realize how old this thread was... whoops.

[hush]

Thats an impressive collection you have i only wish mine was as established as yours oh well back to the hunt :D

[poloplayr]

Congrats! Quite a feat and absolutely love the photos!

So, any hidden gems among them or low-key games which you personally love?

[Howie6925]

What About :
Final Fantasy XI: WIth 40 GB HDD
Final Fantasy XI: Chains of Promathia
Final Fantasy XI Wings of the Goddess
Final Fantasy XI: Vana'diel Collection

I did not see those or are you not including those as as part of the collection because they are more of an online RPG?

[old_skoolin_jim]

Playing RPGs take a lot of time. It's like making a turducken, you have to put one bird in at a time.

Don't forget the de-boning. Mmm, turducken...
Although it does make me concerned that the name of the dish begins with "turd".

[Leo_A]

Nice collection :)

I have a grand total of 4 of those games (Sega Genesis Collection and the three Kingdom Hearts titles).

Someday I need to actually try the Kingdom Hearts series, I've bought all three under the assumption that I'd like them but have yet to try any.

[lendelin]

Finally I got around to get the missing 5 games (from 2009 and 2010) for a complete collection.


I admit that the post from February 2008 was a tad premature. :) I didn't expect that the PS2 would get still a lot of RPGs in 2008, and I certainly didn't expect that I'll be out of the country for the last couple of years.


I posted the following pic of the missing games in the original post. (sorry for the size, Photobucket enlarged it) They are Ar tonelico II LE, Mana Khemia II 'Rosenqueen Edition', Sakura Wars LE, SMT Devil Summoner 2 special edition with plushie, and Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 (regular and LE variant with a comic book).


http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/IMG_1845B.jpg (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/lendelin/media/IMG_1845B.jpg.html)



As an incentive to get the Doublejump guides for the PS2-RPGs, here is another pic:




http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/IMG_1804C.jpg (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/lendelin/media/IMG_1804C.jpg.html)




Too bad Doublejump doesn't exist anymore. In the online age it is incredibly tough for smaller publishers to survive. These guides are collectible because they are just GREAT and unusual guides (a must for all guide lovers), and it might have been the last hurrah of a smaller publishing house in the guide business. There are a few guides for other consoles and genres as well, but for the most part Doublejump published for PS2 RPGs.


To get all those games with variants wasn't very hard or expensive. With the PS3 it is another matter, unfortunately. The special editions are so numerous and sometimes really expensive, it is at times ridiculous. I got so far around 25 of the special editions for PS3 RPGs, but I'm still missing around 15 or more of them; and with the PS4 this exaggerated trend continues. They are getting more, bigger, and more expensive.


The PS2 continued the RPG-dominance over the other consoles. The PS2 has a fantastic game library of RPGs, an amazing 80% are exclusives, among them the best of this generation. And, of course, underappreciated games as well, like the two Dark Clouds and Okage. If someone likes RPGs and does not find 10 must-play-games among them, this someone needs serious medical help.

[Daria]

*slow clap*

Nice collection! I'm no where near complete on PS2, but I don't think I'm going to finish it. There's a lot of great RPGs for it, but there's a good amount of boring filler titles too. I think at this point all I have left on my radar is Steambot Chronicles, Innyuasha, MS Dawn, and the .hack//gu games.

[kupomogli]

Congrats. I'll never have a complete collection because I'm not interested in owning games that I don't enjoy, but I do have atleast half of the games in the list. I've had some more, but sold them because they were either bad or not good enough to keep imo.

It also seems you're missing a few games from your collection that are RPGs.

Castlevania Curse of Darkness is an action RPG. Worse game, but it's more of an RPG than Evergrace, Forever Kingdom, and Orphen are.
Yakuza 1 and 2 are action games with RPG elements.
Dokapon Kingdom is a multiplayer RPG.

[FieryReign]

How many topics are there about one person's spending spree?

[tongxingen]

I just wanna say wow, wish i had them all !

[LaughingMAN.S9]

Late to the party but same as a few others I'll say congratulations but more than half of those games aren't worth owning even for completeness sake.

I'm still trying to hunt down my complete ps1 rpg collection, I'm at like 60 percent of the way there, all of the expensive ones minus tactics ogre are bought and owned by now tho

[lendelin]

*slow clap*

Nice collection! I'm no where near complete on PS2, but I don't think I'm going to finish it. There's a lot of great RPGs for it, but there's a good amount of boring filler titles too. I think at this point all I have left on my radar is Steambot Chronicles, Innyuasha, MS Dawn, and the .hack//gu games.

Thanks! Yeah, with such a big number of games (twice as many as on the PS1) there must be weak games. Evergrace and Eternal Ring as early releases are just terrible games. (bought them ten years ago very cheap new, for $5 at Circuit City)

One of the worst of the bunch is a game not pictured because it is an European release only. It's called Eternal Quest, and the stereotypical title suits the generic and boring RPG-gameplay. I discovered it by coincidence when I was in Germany. For ten Euro and the only RPG-import game I have, I just couldn't resist. :)

The PS1 had overall better RPGs, I think. I'm still missing around 20 (of the ca. 70) Because I'm a cheapskate when it comes to games this won't change anytime soon. :)

Edit: Eternal Quest was also released in Japan (2002). In Europe in 2004.

[lendelin]

Congrats. I'll never have a complete collection because I'm not interested in owning games that I don't enjoy, but I do have atleast half of the games in the list. I've had some more, but sold them because they were either bad or not good enough to keep imo.

It also seems you're missing a few games from your collection that are RPGs.

Castlevania Curse of Darkness is an action RPG. Worse game, but it's more of an RPG than Evergrace, Forever Kingdom, and Orphen are.
Yakuza 1 and 2 are action games with RPG elements.
Dokapon Kingdom is a multiplayer RPG.

Thanks! Wow, you are very observant because Dokapon Kingdom is on the list but I forgot to picture it!

The other games you named I don't regard as RPGs. I LOVED Curse of Darkness but I think there are important RPG elements missing. In this thread there is an old post in which I discuss the Q of an RPG-definition.

[lendelin]

How many topics are there about one person's spending spree?

Much fewer than topics by users who type faster than they think.

It was hardly a spending spree. The games were bought over 6 years at an average price of $13, and for the last 5 games I waited patiently 5 years before I bought them.

[lendelin]

Late to the party but same as a few others I'll say congratulations but more than half of those games aren't worth owning even for completeness sake.

I'm still trying to hunt down my complete ps1 rpg collection, I'm at like 60 percent of the way there, all of the expensive ones minus tactics ogre are bought and owned by now tho

Half of the games are certainly not worth owning (even three quarters of them) in order to play them, but for completeness sake they probably are worthwhile owning.

I just went after them because it was actually pretty easy and cheap to pick up the games 3 or 4 years after their release. It would be much more expensive if I tried to buy them now.

But probably you're right. I'm not a completeness-guy at all, and this is just I wanted for a sub-genre of one console. Probably FF X which just had me in awe back then and I loved, did that to me. It's like when you fall in love, suddenly you're lost and you do stupid things. :)

[Daria]

Thanks! Yeah, with such a big number of games (twice as many as on the PS1) there must be weak games. Evergrace and Eternal Ring as early releases are just terrible games. (bought them ten years ago very cheap new, for $5 at Circuit City)

One of the worst of the bunch is a game not pictured because it is an European release only. It's called Eternal Quest, and the stereotypical title suits the generic and boring RPG-gameplay. I discovered it by coincidence when I was in Germany. For ten Euro and the only RPG-import game I have, I just couldn't resist. :)

The PS1 had overall better RPGs, I think. I'm still missing around 20 (of the ca. 70) Because I'm a cheapskate when it comes to games this won't change anytime soon. :)

Edit: Eternal Quest was also released in Japan (2002). In Europe in 2004.

Yeah I have both of those just because, like you said, they were cheap. But it's stuff like Marvel's Ultimate Alliance, and things I own on other consoles already (The Baldur's Gate DA games, Bards Tale, and Gladius I have on xbox), and most of the borderline titles I can do without.

I'll look into Eternal Quest though. I like checking out the Pal exclusives when they turn up.

Also don't mind FieryReign, he's a troll; sadly DP's become a much less welcoming place than it used to be. :/

[kupomogli]

Thanks! Wow, you are very observant because Dokapon Kingdom is on the list but I forgot to picture it!

The other games you named I don't regard as RPGs. I LOVED Curse of Darkness but I think there are important RPG elements missing. In this thread there is an old post in which I discuss the Q of an RPG-definition.

Why include Evergrace, Forever Kingdom, Dark Cloud, etc, which have less RPG elements than Curse of Darkness then? And Orphen is as much of an RPG as Zelda is, not even an RPG at all.

Yakuza is just as much an RPG as the above listed(more of an RPG than Orphen) and Curse of Darkness is more so.

Curse of Darkness has level ups which are meaningful in damage causing, damage reduction, and HP value, while the games above are only based on strengthening weapons and armor, but Curse of Darkness does that too. Aside from weapons and armor that can be found or dropped by enemies, you acquire as drops or steal different types of material and combine to create new weapons and armor. Innocent Devil's also level up, gaining more attack and defense, and when acquiring a certain amount of gemstones have multiple pathways in which they can transform and acquire different abilities, on top of also being used to progress through certain areas of the game.

Hector's slow running speed and the long hallways that are the same regardless what coat of paint are on them are the main reason that I dislike the game. The game just feels like endless hallway after endless hallway. The combat plays like a Musou game with a bit more depth, so atleast there's some redeeming quality in the combat, but it doesn't make it as enjoyable as something like Lament of Innocence, which despite it having reptitive hallways, the combat atleast made up for it more than enough. And speaking of Lament of Innocence, one I wouldn't state is an RPG, but if Orphen is listed as an RPG, then Lament of Innocence and many other games should be as well.

[Daria]

Why include Evergrace, Forever Kingdom, Dark Cloud, etc, which have less RPG elements than Curse of Darkness then? And Orphen is as much of an RPG as Zelda is, not even an RPG at all.

Yakuza is just as much an RPG as the above listed(more of an RPG than Orphen) and Curse of Darkness is more so.

Curse of Darkness has level ups which are meaningful in damage causing, damage reduction, and HP value, while the games above are only based on strengthening weapons and armor, but Curse of Darkness does that too. Aside from weapons and armor that can be found or dropped by enemies, you acquire as drops or steal different types of material and combine to create new weapons and armor. Innocent Devil's also level up, gaining more attack and defense, and when acquiring a certain amount of gemstones have multiple pathways in which they can transform and acquire different abilities, on top of also being used to progress through certain areas of the game.

Hector's slow running speed and the long hallways that are the same regardless what coat of paint are on them are the main reason that I dislike the game. The game just feels like endless hallway after endless hallway. The combat plays like a Musou game with a bit more depth, so atleast there's some redeeming quality in the combat, but it doesn't make it as enjoyable as something like Lament of Innocence, which despite it having reptitive hallways, the combat atleast made up for it more than enough. And speaking of Lament of Innocence, one I wouldn't state is an RPG, but if Orphen is listed as an RPG, then Lament of Innocence and many other games should be as well.

Man I hate when people do this, it's one thing to suggest titles but if he doesn't want to include them in his personal list that his call. He set a personal goal and achieved it. This argument would be better suited for the other topic where he's trying to establish a definitive list for others to use.

[kupomogli]

Man I hate when people do this, it's one thing to suggest titles but if he doesn't want to include them in his personal list that his call. He set a personal goal and achieved it. This argument would be better suited for the other topic where he's trying to establish a definitive list for others to use.

The fact that he has titles that like Orphen, a game that has no RPG elements whatsoever and several other games that don't have as many RPG elements and have the same gameplay, this is arguing over contradictions in his list. He's even said he has the game. The other list has Orphen but doesn't have this either btw.

And didn't notice this before but Dirge of Cerberus Final Fantasy 7 isn't in his list either, but let me guess, that's not an RPG either right. If that's the case, I own every RPG on the PS2. Oh, those ones I don't have or haven't listed, I just don't count those as RPGs. That's how that works.

*edit*

Oh, and Phantasy Star Universe is there, but not Phantasy Star Universe Ambition of the Illuminus, which is the games sequel/expansion, isn't.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

To be fair, I'm also in the "yakuza is an action rpg" camp.

[lendelin]

The fact that he has titles that like Orphen, a game that has no RPG elements whatsoever and several other games that don't have as many RPG elements and have the same gameplay, this is arguing over contradictions in his list. He's even said he has the game. The other list has Orphen but doesn't have this either btw.

And didn't notice this before but Dirge of Cerberus Final Fantasy 7 isn't in his list either, but let me guess, that's not an RPG either right. If that's the case, I own every RPG on the PS2. Oh, those ones I don't have or haven't listed, I just don't count those as RPGs. That's how that works.

*edit*

Oh, and Phantasy Star Universe is there, but not Phantasy Star Universe Ambition of the Illuminus, which is the games sequel/expansion, isn't.

Nah, that's not how that works. :) I don't arbitrary eliminate or include games depending on ownership. This would be just plain silly; rather on a pretty inclusionary RPG understanding which still makes it necessary to draw lines. BTW, 'Phantasy Star Universe Ambition of the Illuminus' you claim is arbitrarily eliminated is on the list AND pictured in my collection. (second post of this thread, fourth picture from the top) I also own Dirge of Cerberus but didn't put in on the list.

FF MMoRPGs? Sorry, there are on the list but I'm just not interested in them. This is my decision for my lil' game library you just have to accept. This is an arbitrary decision indeed.

Sorry, I mixed up the two Castlevania games. (Long time since I played them) With the game I loved I meant indeed Lament of Innocence which gave you a great sense of exploration and discovery, and, you're right, Curse of Darkness wasn't a good game at all. LoI I finished, CoD I gave up halfway through becasue it just wasn't fun.

About the crux of the discussion: it is about the lack of a generally agreed upon definition of a RPG. I can only repeat what I wrote in this thread a long time ago in 2008 responding to two guys who had the same concerns like you:


"The lack of consistency is intentional because there was no better alternative. If we could agree on a definition with standards for a RPG we would certainly achieve consistency. Basically I sacrificed consistency on the altar of inclusion of borderline cases.

The reasons are twofold.

First, it would take a long time to agree on a definition, and once agreed we’d have problems with newly released games which stretch the genre again and change the need for a definition. (Deus Ex, Mass Effect) The time factor shouldn’t be underestimated; so far we still don’t have a useable and generally agreed definition after years of discussion.

Second, no matter how we define a RPG, no matter if we choose a minimal definition or an extensive content definition, we’ll always end up with questionable cases. We’ll always end up with games we want to include but fall outside of the definition, and vice versa.

Let’s say we define a RPG as a game which has to fulfill all of the following essential technical gameplay standards, ( which were proposed and discussed already years ago and I remember off the hat because I proposed and discussed some of them):

1) Some kind of statistics which define and describe certain attributes or skills of game characters.
2) The famous leveling-up, that means some kind of method to influence (increase) these statistics for characters.
3) There must be a menu for combat, just broadly a menu-driven combat system.

There are other standards proposed which may or may not be included as necessary conditions such as complex storylines, the latter is very weak one and shouldn’t be included imo.

You’ll always end up with cases which will raise eyebrows. Secret of Mana out, Alundra out, Popful Mail out. They fulfill two standards, but not a third one. Then you’ll always end up with cases which fulfill 1) and 2), but are just halfway there in the third standard category. Then you’ll end up with maybes like Disgaea and FF Tactics (Menu driven combat - yes, but still grid placement influences the battle; is it just a strategy game or a RPG?))

The point is, you’ll gain more consistency without any doubt when you have clearly defined standards.

But even with stricter standards there are always cases in which the feeling takes over – just enough gameplay elements for a category, or they fall just short to fulfill a category.

You’ll always end up with certain gameplay elements of another genre (see the above FF Tactics with strategy elements, replaceable with action elements and elements from many other genres). That’s why we have the genre combinations action/RPG, strategy RGP, and so many others.

In the last ten years we have the development tendency towards the hybrid game. I like it. Even in sports games we have now elements of statistical skill attributes which were once used only in RPGs. The result are the above mentioned genre benders which makes it even more difficult to agree on clearly defined RPG standards. It is more a matter of “feeling” even in the case of applied RPG-standards if certain RPG elements are essential gameplay elements or just used to color a game with or give it a mood of a RPG. In some posts of the original thread I discussed some of those cases.

The very simple reason I avoided a RPG definition for the list (AND my collection) is its recommendation character. It was designed to be as inclusionary as possible and not as the ‘ultimate’ RPG list. In the end everyone can add or remove titles for his personal list. However, I admit that the term "complete" is misleading because ther is no such thing.

The titles you address are indeed questionable for a strict RPG list, and there is an unavoidable lack of consistency. Facing big hurdles of defining standards, another option is simply to put ten or more of these titles in the borderline category. (Nine of them are currently in there) But then we’ll loose again the leeway recommendation character of the list."


You see, the list is not as arbitrary and thoughtless as you assumed. :) And let's face it: if we can agree upon 90% of the titles in the main list (and I'm sure we can), that's good enough for me.

[kupomogli]

I don't think Yakuza is an action RPG, but if you're going to list something like Orphen, Evergrace, and Forever Kingdom, then you should also add Yakuza and Curse of Darkness to that list.

*edit*

This was in response to laughingman. I did read your post afterwards and I get how you add games to the list if they follow specific mechanics, still don't get why other ones that follow the mechanics more than the others or just as much so don't get added, but whatever, it's your list.

Additionally, like you said, we're in agreement on 90%+ of the games, so congrats on the list still. I meant that regardless of the argument of the games that are and aren't included.

[Daria]

I don't think Yakuza is an action RPG, but if you're going to list something like Orphen, Evergrace, and Forever Kingdom, then you should also add Yakuza and Curse of Darkness to that list.


I don't know about Orphen or Yakuza, but Evergrace and Forever Kingdom are both standard action rpgs. I don't understand your beef with them.

[Trebuken]

I generally consider this the definitive list. I am happy to let others determine what is and is not an RPG. It seems that there are not too many games that are debatable (to most). Those games I simply deem borderline; and given that they are not the rarest of games -- I just assume I'll buy them anyway.

Now, given that this is the 'definitive list' and I have been collecting from the old list I now have to pursue these new additions...darn.

Thanks for the list, thanks for the pics, thanks for your contribution.

[kupomogli]

I don't know about Orphen or Yakuza, but Evergrace and Forever Kingdom are both standard action rpgs. I don't understand your beef with them.

I actually really like both games, but they're action adventure with slight RPG elements. The skills all come from armor and accessories, and then you have the ability to upgrade equipment to make it more powerful in the shop. They can be upgraded, but upgrading makes little difference so while the element is there, it's not a huge aspect on the game, it's very very minor. I only chose those games because they have similar gameplay. Dark Cloud isn't much of an RPG other than leveling weapons. Harvest Moon isn't an RPG at all, unless Farming Simulator 2016 is now an RPG. Steambot Chronicles is another game that's called an RPG because it's open world environment, but RPG aspects are non existent in the game. You do all the same things in Yakuza, that you do in Steambot Chronicles as side activities. If it's the difference in combat because of the customization, Steambot Chronicles only has the character swapping parts to make a more powerful mech, it's not like there are RPG elements with the character upgrading stats. The only difference between mech combat in Steambot Chronicles and Armored Core, aside from Armored Core having much more fluid combat and much more customization, is that on Steambot Chronicles enemy damage is listed on a visible bar on the screen and battles are done in an open world environment while exploring. You wouldn't call Mega Man Legends an RPG though and that's pretty much identical to Steambot Chronicles in terms of combat and world design.

The only reason I chose the ones I did is because they were much more similar in design to the ones I was comparing, but there are more in the list that could have been argued against as well(as I did above.) But I didn't argue about these because hey, he sees these games as RPGs, I personally don't look at them as RPGs as they have no major elements of RPGs to them. Instead I stayed focused to argue about the games that are very similar and less of an RPG than one of the ones I was pointing out, Curse of Darkness, and like I said, I think Curse of Darkness sucks(and enjoy Evergrace and Forever Kingdom,) but it's more of an RPG than they are. Orphen, not an RPG at all.

[lendelin]

I actually really like both games, but they're action adventure with slight RPG elements. The skills all come from armor and accessories, and then you have the ability to upgrade equipment to make it more powerful in the shop. They can be upgraded, but upgrading makes little difference so while the element is there, it's not a huge aspect on the game, it's very very minor. I only chose those games because they have similar gameplay. Dark Cloud isn't much of an RPG other than leveling weapons. Harvest Moon isn't an RPG at all, unless Farming Simulator 2016 is now an RPG. Steambot Chronicles is another game that's called an RPG because it's open world environment, but RPG aspects are non existent in the game. You do all the same things in Yakuza, that you do in Steambot Chronicles as side activities. If it's the difference in combat because of the customization, Steambot Chronicles only has the character swapping parts to make a more powerful mech, it's not like there are RPG elements with the character upgrading stats. The only difference between mech combat in Steambot Chronicles and Armored Core, aside from Armored Core having much more fluid combat and much more customization, is that on Steambot Chronicles enemy damage is listed on a visible bar on the screen and battles are done in an open world environment while exploring. You wouldn't call Mega Man Legends an RPG though and that's pretty much identical to Steambot Chronicles in terms of combat and world design.

The only reason I chose the ones I did is because they were much more similar in design to the ones I was comparing, but there are more in the list that could have been argued against as well(as I did above.) But I didn't argue about these because hey, he sees these games as RPGs, I personally don't look at them as RPGs as they have no major elements of RPGs to them. Instead I stayed focused to argue about the games that are very similar and less of an RPG than one of the ones I was pointing out, Curse of Darkness, and like I said, I think Curse of Darkness sucks(and enjoy Evergrace and Forever Kingdom,) but it's more of an RPG than they are. Orphen, not an RPG at all.

I agree with you not in the case of every game, but for a good part of them! I know that there are inconsistencies in the RPG-list. But they are unavoidable.

Over more than three years many guys proposed games I overlooked and I added them and I removed games fom the list which some said shouldn't be there, and they had good reasons for it.

Why are then around 10 games in the main list which are questionable? Because I wanted intentionally include them for the sake of having a list as complete as possible. If 50% would say YES to a game and 50% would say NO, I choose to include it. Then you still have to draw a line because there are other similar games in gameplay mechanics in order to flavor a game with some RPG-elements. THis means you are inconsistent, but you have to be; otherwise we would end up with God of War and Maddens. (no kiiding)

There are so many RPG elements in some games nowadays that an elusive 'feeling' and 'atmosphere' of a game takes over. Even the heritage of a game series. Let's say the Castlevania series would have been in the 80s and 90s a RPG like Dragon Quest. I'm very sure that in RPG lists Symphony of the Night and Curse of Darkness would appear in the lists with the same exact gameplay mechanics. Some would argue they shouldn't actually be in these lists, but becasue of the roots of the series and the still existent RPG-elements I would include the game. Is this inconsistent? You bet, but that is because we have no RPG-Definition the Holy Ghost sent us as a gift.

It all depends on the starting point: how strict your definition of a RPG is and how strict you interpret these standards for every game. I choose to be as inclusionary as possible and at the same time minimize the unavoidable inconsistency. This seems to me a better way than the application of a very strict RPG-Definition which doesn't include Secret of Mana, Alundra, Popful Mail, Disgaea, Shadow Hearts or Suikoden Tactics.

As I said, 10 games in the main list and the borderline games are questionable, but if the rest gives reliable, great information and an overview of RPGs we all can agree upon, that is good enough for me. I'm neither the RPG-Pope nor am I more papal than the Pope. :) (old German saying)

[lendelin]

I generally consider this the definitive list. I am happy to let others determine what is and is not an RPG. It seems that there are not too many games that are debatable (to most). Those games I simply deem borderline; and given that they are not the rarest of games -- I just assume I'll buy them anyway.

Now, given that this is the 'definitive list' and I have been collecting from the old list I now have to pursue these new additions...darn.

Thanks for the list, thanks for the pics, thanks for your contribution.

Thanks guy! This is exactly the reason why started the RPG list. I just wanted to play RPGs, noticed that there are a lot of them out there for the PS2, and wanted just an alphabetical list of titles so I don't miss important games. And then the ball started rolling...and I had no idea what to expect for the next couple of years. :)

Some pointed out that there are deluxe sets, some pointed out that there is a soundtrack CD in a regular case and that the game is also available in a regular edition, some said that there are variants of CD labels, some pointed out inconsistencies of SLUS numbers: in short, the list grew and grew and information was amassed.

I did all of that to have an overview of the RPGs, and to make sure that if we buy used games we have a reference list to look up the contents of special editions. That's why the lists for games with extra content is there, because no matter if you buy a used game in a Gamestop or on ebay, there was no online listing which told you what was the detailed content of an edition.

The list is now the most informative and the most reliable online. (and got quite a few of copy and paste jobs of people who claim that they compiled this list :) ) This is not fishing for compliments because the RPG-listing is only so good and informative because so many guys contributed to them. I would have overlooked so many details and introduced so many false information, I was really thankful for a lot of members who pointed out that some games should be included or removed, that editions are missing, that there are different SLUS numbers, that there are variants of CD labels or regular packaging. The list goes on and on. One guy cannot have this overview, but if a lot of people with all their knowledge check the listings they find mistakes which can be corrected, and this way you end up with very reliable information.

So, the thanks should go to all of the guys and girls who contributed to the RPG-list.