Goal Achieved: Completed PS2 RPG Collection 163 games (Pic Alert)

[lendelin]

UPDATE: November 2015 (26 games added since original post with 137 games)

If you think this thread is about bragging...yeah, a bit. :)...but more so just pride and a sigh of relief that I won't have to hunt the games down anymore like I did with the PS1 RPGs years ago; and still don't have them all.

I enjoyed very much Daria's thread when she posted her completed RPG collection for the PS1. One of my favorite things to do on the DP site is to look at other peoples collections. I enjoy them without being envy.

I have to admit that I enjoyed more to look at Daria's completed collection for the PS1. Overall the game quality is just better, I think.

The collection includes everything from the following list...

LINK TO PS2 RPG LIST (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73673)

...except for the Greatest Hits versions and all of the FF XI MMO RPGs I'm just not interested in. However, the following variants are missing:

SMT: Nocturne with CD
Inuyasha with Card
Digimon World 4 without Card

Everything else from Deluxe sets, borderline games, regular cases with extra content to variants is there, altogether 163 games.

I have all of the published guides except for

Drakan: The Ancients’ Gates
Deus Ex The Conspiracy
Fallout Brotherhood of Steel
Forever Kingdom
King’s Field Ancient City
Monster Rancher 3
Okage Shadow King
Orphen Scion of Sorcery

If you have one of the missing variants or guides to sell, please shoot me a PM.

I want to thank all of you who contributed to the PS2 RPG list mentioned above. It made collecting much easier.


http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection01X.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection02.jpg

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http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection06.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection07.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection08.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection09.jpg

[lendelin]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection10.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection11.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection13x.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection14xx.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/DeusExUPLOAD.jpg


http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection20-UPLOAD-1.jpg



http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/IMG_1845B.jpg (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/lendelin/media/IMG_1845B.jpg.html)

[Aussie2B]

That's just nutty. :) Very impressive, congratulations, especially for having it done before the PS2 is even officially dead yet. That's probably enough gaming to last a lifetime, hehe.

I'm only up to around 30 myself, but I've been making next to no effort in my collecting. I'm sure my PS1 RPG collecting will keep me busy for a LONG time, so no urge to complete the PS2 set just yet. :P

[Simply Dave]

Major props on that. Nice photos, too.

[debian4life]

Congrats! Great job of collecting. Which RPG is your favorite?

Regards,

Brian

[heybtbm]

How many of those RPG's have you played to completion? Buying stuff isn't impressive. Beating all (or a majority) of those games would be.

[carlcarlson]

Nice man, congratualtions. This is something I've been striving for as well, and for the same reason it seems. It is a pain in the butt trying to track down PS1 rpgs now, especially at an affordable price, so why not take all of that work out for the PS2? The only difference is that I have no desire to own alot of those games, I'm only going for the (arguably) quality titles. You won't find Draken, Angel, or Fullmetal Alchemist in my collection. I think I've got about 15 more to go until I will be satisfied.

[TonyTheTiger]

Nice collection. But you've got a few non-RPGs in there.

GrimGrimiore is an RTS and Justice League Heroes is a beat-em-up. Though both are good games so thumbs up regardless.

[RyanMurf]

How many of those RPG's have you played to completion? Buying stuff isn't impressive. Beating all (or a majority) of those games would be.

Remember thats your opinion^^^^. Good job man by the way nice collection im very impressed.

[John_Madden]

Playing RPGs take a lot of time. It's like making a turducken, you have to put one bird in at a time.

[roushimsx]

Nice collection. But you've got a few non-RPGs in there.

And Drakan is a third person action/adventure with a fantasy setting. I remember seeing the strategy guide for that as recently as a year ago at a local store for like 75% off but I never bought it. A few weeks ago I was hunting around because I finally decided I wanted to play the series and saw that while the game itself isn't too pricey, that the guide goes for like $60+ on Amazon. Fucking silly.

Can't wait to really get into the PS2 game, but I'm trying to beat the PC one first. As fun as the game is, the PC version hates any new videocards (GF6+) and loves to crash frequently when in outdoor areas (which, coincidentally, is also where a bulk of the fun is when you're riding the dragon). PS2 version has the fun, crummy graphics, and stability. Shame that both the first game wasn't ported to either PS2 or DC and that the second game was never ported to PC or Xbox.

[darkhades]

Congratulations, very nice collection indeed. I am working hard myself to get a complete PS1 and PS2 RPG collection.

[heybtbm]

Remember thats your opinion^^^^.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering why I typed those words and hit "submit".

[roushimsx]

Oh! Not to detract from the hotness of the collection, but you're still missing Deus Ex: The Conspiracy. Wonderful RPG/FPS hybrid and the PS2 port has some nice enhancements over the original PC release, though the smaller zones might drive you batty. Still a damned classic and enough of an RPG that you should consider adding it to your collection (and trimming games off the list that aren't RPGs so much as they're just fantasy-themed games)

[Nate Nanjo]

Check Atlus's Website in 2 days, they should be announcing Persona 3: FES or playing some joke. So that will be another to add. Also, I want to do this collection. :(

[Sudo]

Congrats, I wish I had the money to build up a collection like that.

[le geek]

Thanks for the pics! Looking over the games, I have 16 of them. Congrats!

Cheers,
Ben

[djbeatmongrel]

Impressive. Congrats. I do enjoy genre themed collections. I'm keeping up with a complete US PS2 2D fighter collection right now.

[slip81]

very sweet amigo

[lendelin]

How many of those RPG's have you played to completion? Buying stuff isn't impressive. Beating all (or a majority) of those games would be.

I was afraid of this Q. :) the sad sad truth is -- I played to completion a mere 11 games. Played a bit around with it: around 25. (lowers his head in shame)

I know it is terrible, but my likes for genres shifted plus in the last two years I didn't have a lot of time playing. During the NES and SNES times RPGs were one of my favorites, but Gran Turismo 3 and Metropolis Street Racer made me a racer fanatic. 15 years ago I found racing games just plain boring (even the SNES F-Zero).

What am I playing now instead of Metal Saga or Persona 3? Project Gotham Racing 4.

I haven't played any of the Shin Megami Tenseis yet or Disgaea, which is really a sin. I want to play Persona 3.

Your remark about playing and collecting is a common misperception. We love to collect because we love to play games, but that doesn't mean we have to play a lot of games in our collections. A game collection is like a library. The most important aspect is the number and quality of books available, ready to be used. Whenever you need them, they are there on the shelves. You don't have to read them all which isn't only impossible, it is also not recommended. We have to be selective according to our interests.

One of the reasons we have game collections is increasing the options to play whatever you like whenever you like for different purposes -- just for fun, or in order to compare games of the same genre over time, or in order to compare various aspects of gameplay elements within one generation of games. The bigger the collection, the more options and possibilities you have.

I addressed above one of the rational reasons among others for collecting based on my own experience. With age comes sometimes the shift in genres you like to play. A good collection makes sure that you have the games you might like to play one day even if you don't appreciate them now. If I ever discover and start to like football games (God help me!) I'm in bad shape. :)

That's one of the rational reasons...but let's face it -- we are just plain irrational videogame nuts who want an authentic part of game history on our shelves because we love to play games. That's the sad main reason. :)

[esquire]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/DP%20UPLOADS/RPGCollection08.jpg


That's a funky version of Stella Deus you have there. I've never seen that artwork before.

Mine, and every other copy I've seen, looks like this:

http://i9.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/c9/73/22c9_1.JPG

[RadiantSvgun]

I'm glad you posted this. Now I know what to look for.

[lendelin]

Congrats! Great job of collecting. Which RPG is your favorite?

Regards,

Brian

You have to take my recommendation not only with a grain of salt but a full shaker of salt. (see post above how many games I actually played.) Heybtbm and Daria are certainly more qualified to answer the Q about the best of the best on the list.

My favorite (and the biggest surprise) was Dragon Quest VIII. Just a wonderful game. The gameplay gave me the old Dragon Warrior feeling. The cel-shaded graphics, the quirky humor and good story, the "pacing" of play elements (relaxing play time, levelling up, intense boss battles, storytelling) were all in balance.; and if everything just irrationally fits together and is in perfect balance, then we have truly outstanding games. Take one element away, and its off-balance and just 'very good.' The same goes for novels or poems or a fantastic sitcom like Seinfeld.

My second favorite was Kingdom Hearts. I plan to play Persona 3, Disgaea, Metal Saga, and Okage Shadow King - at some point. Hopefully rather sooner than later.

[lendelin]

That's a funky version of Stella Deus you have there. I've never seen that artwork before.

Mine, and every other copy I've seen, looks like this:

http://i9.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/c9/73/22c9_1.JPG

Holy Kwoly, another variant to get? esquire, you are a sadist! :)

Seriously, THANKS a lot for the input. Great eye, guy.

[djbeatmongrel]

i dont know why but i would double check to see if the insert is doulbe sided. its a rare thing but its worth checking before you call variant on it.

[esquire]

i dont know why but i would double check to see if the insert is doulbe sided. its a rare thing but its worth checking before you call variant on it.

You are correct sir. I just opened mine up and pulled out the artwork. Lendelin must have bought his used and the prior owner inverted it.

[lendelin]

To all of you who suggested additions or removals: the list is by no means a papal list, just as inclusionary as possible.

I think at a time when the genre bending hit a peak, borderline cases are aplenty. Lots of games mentioned are in the borderline category anyway. The Drakengards? Certainly border-borderline. :) GrimGrimoire, certainly a RTS with a strong RPG feel, therefore it is in the borderline category as well.

I think we could agree on 90% of the games in the list, the remaining games are up to individual tastes. For some it is 'Graffiti Kingdom and Magic Pengel out, and Shadow of the Colossus and Gauntlet in.' In the end we can only say that there is noc such thing as a "truly" complete list of a genre, just that you completed the collection you made up for yourself regarding the remaining ten percent.

[lendelin]

i dont know why but i would double check to see if the insert is doulbe sided. its a rare thing but its worth checking before you call variant on it.

Great, thanks so much to you and esquire! It is double-sided indeed. BTW, Magna Carta has also a double-sided cover.

[lendelin]

Check Atlus's Website in 2 days, they should be announcing Persona 3: FES or playing some joke. So that will be another to add. Also, I want to do this collection. :(

Yep, you're right, I forgot about this one. That makes three on the list of future releases.

[lendelin]

Nice man, congratualtions. This is something I've been striving for as well, and for the same reason it seems. It is a pain in the butt trying to track down PS1 rpgs now, especially at an affordable price, so why not take all of that work out for the PS2? The only difference is that I have no desire to own alot of those games, I'm only going for the (arguably) quality titles. You won't find Draken, Angel, or Fullmetal Alchemist in my collection. I think I've got about 15 more to go until I will be satisfied.

Exactly my thoughts, too....and there were great sales in the last four years.

I'd say that in the next two or three years you'll get the RPGs pretty easy and for a reasonable price; but it is probably not a good idea to wait longer than that looking at the prices of the RPGs for the PS1.

[lendelin]

Congrats, I wish I had the money to build up a collection like that.

Actually it wasn't so expensive. I bought them over a period of six years, waited for great sales, and in some cases I really lucked out. The SMT Digital Devil Saga Box Set was $10 (the TRUS pre-Christams sale three years ago), Nocturne was $18, there were a lot of games in the CC clearance bins for $13 and $17 like Grandia III, Disgaea, Disgaea 2, all the Xenosagas, Legendia, Metal Saga and others from TRUS sales, and lots of deals from BB GS or Amazon.

Together with same profitable sales on ebay all the games weren't too expensive.

The price drops for RPGs are clearly the worst compared to other genres, still if you wait long enough you'll get them for a reasonable price. Usually I hardly bought a game for more than $20, most of the Deluxe sets are Christmas and birthday gifts.

I'd say on average I probably paid $20 for a game, not too expensive considering they were bought over a time of six years. (not considering some profits from resales I made and then invested in buying games like so many of us do.)

NEVER EVER do what I did with Soul Nomad or Phantasy Star Illuminus. I bought them for $40 each which I usually don't do. In particular the new Phantasy Star game will drop soon in some sales to $10. I was just too impatient and wanted the few remaining games on my list NOW. :)

If you want a lot of games you have to be a cheapskate, and patience pays off :)

[Skelix]

Mentioning the PS1 list, is it still in the threads someplace? I've searched numerous times. Do we have a complete, detailed list like for PS2? I'm too working on my PS2 RPG list, but was gonna hit PS1 at the same time as I know it will take much longer.

Kiss ass collection though, I'd personally get all those damn stickers off the cases though :)

[carlcarlson]

Mentioning the PS1 list, is it still in the threads someplace? I've searched numerous times. Do we have a complete, detailed list like for PS2? I'm too working on my PS2 RPG list, but was gonna hit PS1 at the same time as I know it will take much longer.

Kiss ass collection though, I'd personally get all those damn stickers off the cases though :)

Do a search for threads started by Daria in Classic Gaming and it should be near the top. I think there were a few borderline games she missed, but those were all discussed in the thread as well, so it's a pretty perfect resource. And expensive as hell.

[lendelin]

Mentioning the PS1 list, is it still in the threads someplace? I've searched numerous times. Do we have a complete, detailed list like for PS2? I'm too working on my PS2 RPG list, but was gonna hit PS1 at the same time as I know it will take much longer.:)

I have a list which someone posted in a DP thread a long time ago from the Official PlayStation Mag from 2003. I can cut and paste it if you're interested.


Kiss ass collection though, I'd personally get all those damn stickers off the cases though :)

There are no stickers on opened cases. I'm as finicky as you can get. :) If you see stickers they are on the shrinkwrap because the game is still sealed. Around 70% of the games are sealed.

[lendelin]

Do a search for threads started by Daria in Classic Gaming and it should be near the top. I think there were a few borderline games she missed, but those were all discussed in the thread as well, so it's a pretty perfect resource. And expensive as hell.

Yep, good advice.

I still don't have Suikoden II. Even three years ago I didn't want to pay $70 for it. I have around 50 PS1 RPGS, but still missing important ones like Thousand Arms, Persona Revelations, and Kartia.

[lendelin]

Here is a list of PS1 RPGs.

Complete Alphabetical List of RPGs for the PS1 (US Releases)

(as listed and rated in the the Official PlayStation Magazine, April 2002)

Alundra ****½
Alundra 2 ***
Arc the Lad Collection ****
Azure Dreams ***
Battle Hunter *1/2
Beyond the Beyond - Not Rated
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain - Not Rated
Brave Fencer Musashi ****
Breath of Fire III ***½
Breath of Fire IV ***½
Brigandine ***½
Chocobo's Dungeon 2 **½
Chrono Chross *****
Darkstone ***½
Diablo ****
Digimon World *1/2
Digimon World 2 **
Dragon Warrior VII ****½
Dragon Valor ***
Dragonseeds **
Eternal Eyes *1/2
Final Fantasy VII *****
Final Fantasy VIII *****
Final Fantasy IX *****
Final Fantasy Anthology ****½
Final Fantasy Chronicles ****
Final Fantasy Origins (added!)
Final Fantasy Tactics ****
Front Mission 3 ****½
Grandia ****½
Granstream Saga ***
Guardian's Crusade ***
Harvest Moon: Back to Nature ***½
Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth **½
Jade Cocoon ***½
Kartia ****
King's Field - Not Rated
King's Field 2 - Not Rated
Koudelka ***
Legend of Dragoon ****½
Legend of Legaia ****
Legend of Mana **½
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete ****½
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete ****
Master of Monsters - Not Rated
Monkey Hero **
Monster Rancher - Not Rated
Monster Rancher 2 ****
Monster Seed - Not Rated
Ogre Battle Limited Edition - Not Rated
Parasite Eve ****
Parasite Eve 2 ****½
Persona - Not Rated
Persona 2 ****
Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure ***
RPG Maker ****½
Saga Frontier ***½
Saga Frontier 2 ***½
Saiyuki: Journey West ***½
Shadow Madness **½
Shadow Tower ½
Star Ocean: Second Story ****½
Suikoden - Not Rated
Suikoden II ****
Tactics Ogre ***½
Tail of the Sun - Not Rated
Tales of Destiny ****
Tales of Destiny 2 ***½
Thousand Arms ****
Threads of Fate ***½
Torneko: The Last Hope **
Vagrant Story ***½
Valkyrie Profile ****
Vandal Hearts - Not Rated
Vandal Hearts 2 ***½
Vanguard Bandits **½
Wild Arms - Not Rated
Wild Arms 2 ***1/2
Xenogears ****

TOTAL NUMBER: 79



HERE ARE THE SAME GAMES LISTED ABOVE ORDERED BY GENRE AND OTHER CATEGORIES

PS1 Role Playing Games

(With ratings and listed by categories as reviewed in the Official Playstation Magazine, April 2002)


15 Must-Play RPGs:

Chrono Chross *****
Dragon Warrior VII ****1/2
Final Fantasy VII *****
Fintal Fantasy VIII *****
Final Fantasy IX *****
Final Fantasy Tactics ****
Front Mission 3 ****1/2
Grandia ****1/2
Legend of Dragoon ****1/2
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete ****1/2
Star Ocean: Second Story ****1/2
Suikoden - Not Rated
Vagrant Story ***1/2
Valkyrie Profile ****
Xenogears ****

Breeding RPGs:

Digimon World 2 **
Dragonseeds **
Jade Cocoon ***1/2
Monster Seed - Not Rated
Monster Rancher - Not Rated
Monster Rancher 2 ****

Something Different:

Harvest Moon: Back to Nature ***1/2
Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure ***
Tail of the Sun - Not Rated
Thousand Arms ****

On Its Own:

RPG Maker ****1/2


Retro Redux:

Final Fantasy Anthology ****1/2
Final Fantasy Chronicles ****
Final Fantasy Origins (added!)
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete ****
Ogre Battle Limited Edition - Not Rated
Tactics Ogre ***1/2

Strategy RPGs:

Arc the Lad Collection ****
Brigandine ***1/2
Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth **1/2
Kartia ****
Master of Monsters - Not Rated
Saiyuki: Journey West ***1/2
Vandal Hearts - Not Rated
Vandal Hearts 2 ***1/2
Vanguard Bandits **1/2

Action RPGs:

Alundra ****1/2
Alundra 2 ***
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain - Not Rated
Brave Fencer Musashi ****
Chocobo's Dungeon 2 **1/2
Darkstone ***1/2
Diablo ****
Dragon Valor ***
Parasite Eve 2 ****1/2
Monkey Hero **
Threads of Fate ***1/2
Torneko: The Last Hope **

Traditional RPGs:

Azure Dreams ***
Breath of Fire III ***1/2
Breath of Fire IV ***1/2
Granstream Saga ***
Guardian's Crusade ***
King's Field - Not Rated
King's Field 2 - Not Rated Koudelka ***
Legend of Legaia ****
Legend of Mana **1/2
Parasite Eve ****
Persona - Not Rated
Persona 2 ****
Saga Frontier ***1/2
Saga Frontier 2 ***1/2
Shadow Madness **1/2
Suikoden II ****
Tales of Destiny ****
Tales of Destiny 2 ***1/2
Wild Arms - Not Rated
Wild Arms 2 ***1/2

5 Worst RPGs:

Battle Hunter *1/2
Beyond the Beyond - Not Rated
Digimon World *1/2
Eternal Eyes *1/2
Shadow Tower ½


Total number: 79

[TonyTheTiger]

To all of you who suggested additions or removals: the list is by no means a papal list, just as inclusionary as possible.

I think at a time when the genre bending hit a peak, borderline cases are aplenty. Lots of games mentioned are in the borderline category anyway. The Drakengards? Certainly border-borderline. :) GrimGrimoire, certainly a RTS with a strong RPG feel, therefore it is in the borderline category as well.

I think we could agree on 90% of the games in the list, the remaining games are up to individual tastes. For some it is 'Graffiti Kingdom and Magic Pengel out, and Shadow of the Colossus and Gauntlet in.' In the end we can only say that there is noc such thing as a "truly" complete list of a genre, just that you completed the collection you made up for yourself regarding the remaining ten percent.

No doubt genre definitions are fuzzy. The whole concept of genres tends to be vague anyway because only the most "standard" games define them. We know Super Mario Bros. is an action platformer. We know Street Fighter II is a fighting game. But what about GrimGrimiore? It's essentially the same thing as Command & Conquer...but instead of Russians and tanks it's elves and sorcery. Then you get people who consider Castlevania: Symphony of the Night an RPG despite it being point for point Super Metroid with leveling up.

[Sothy]

Cool collection.

Ill take it off yer hands.
Hows 2$ shipped sound?

[lendelin]

Cool collection.

Ill take it off yer hands.
Hows 2$ shipped sound?

That's outrageous. How cheap can you get? I want a fair price, my friend. You can have them for $4.99, PLUS $5 shipping, no cent more, no cent less. Deal?

...and you thought I don't know the prices for games, think again.

[roushimsx]

Then you get people who consider Castlevania: Symphony of the Night an RPG despite it being point for point Super Metroid with leveling up.

Considering "leveling up" is one of the main points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action-adventure_game) of a console RPG (scroll down to "Definition and confusion"), I'd say that sounds right. Afterall, Ys (an RPG) is basically Legend of Zelda (an action adventure) with leveling up. Most people seem to place more emphasis on a game having a fantasy setting than on any specific gameplay bits, which is why stuff like Legend of Zelda and Drakan get lumped into these collections.

...and what's up with Future Tactics, which isn't even remotely close to anything resembling an RPG (turn based tactical shooter)? I mean, at least with Deus Ex there's the argument that if King's Field qualifies then something with more depth very well ought to qualify, but the only link Future Tactics has to any of the other games on the list is its title.

tl;dr - You need to start cracking the plastic open on some of these and start playing them. Plus you need Deus Ex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex). :)


That's outrageous. How cheap can you get? I want a fair price, my friend. You can have them for $4.99, PLUS $5 shipping, no cent more, no cent less. Deal?

...and you thought I don't know the prices for games, think again.

For $5 shipping, it damn well had better not come in a bubble wrap envelope or else I'm leaving negative feedback. :(

[lendelin]

For $5 shipping, it damn well had better not come in a bubble wrap envelope or else I'm leaving negative feedback. :(

What is this talk about bubble wrap envelope? I assumed Sothy wanted the pics.

I'll send them the pics in an email, and he sends $9.99 to my PayPal account. :)

Isn't that a fair and great deal for our Sothy? I do it from the goodness of my heart, he can thank me later.

[RyanMurf]

Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering why I typed those words and hit "submit".


No I meant to remind you not to be a DICK about things. If the guy collects games and has reached his goal he doesn't need someone like you to tell him its not impressive. Again nice collection lendelin

[TonyTheTiger]

Considering "leveling up" is one of the main points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action-adventure_game) of a console RPG (scroll down to "Definition and confusion"), I'd say that sounds right. Afterall, Ys (an RPG) is basically Legend of Zelda (an action adventure) with leveling up.

A lot of people do conisider certain elements necessarily related to a genre. So character growth = RPG. The problem is, you end up getting really screwed up results when applying that. For instance, you gain experience in the World Tour mode of Street Fighter Alpha 3. So for every person saying Symphony of the Night is an RPG because of leveling up, how much of that logic carries over to Street Fighter? Maybe Alpha 3 itself is a fighting game but the World Tour Mode is an RPG? That just sounds absurd. What about Metroid and Zelda? If you think about it, the games are structured exactly the same. You build your character up the same way. You "quest" in the same way. But few people would put them in the same genre. Why? Because one has an isometric view and the other doesn't? I think genre definition is so vague that you just can't assign elements as being necessarily related to anything. You just have to "feel it out" in a way.


Most people seem to place more emphasis on a game having a fantasy setting than on any specific gameplay bits, which is why stuff like Legend of Zelda and Drakan get lumped into these collections.

See, I find that strange since it's obviously not always the case. The whole fantasy=RPG thing is a vestigial remnant back when everything was inspired by Dungeons & Dragons.

[Skelix]

Thanks for the list, in your first post you were calling it Darias' List so I thought the members name was Darias :)



edit: Could have sword you put Darias' I must be seeing things. Sweet I can start working on some PS1 titles too!

[lendelin]

Thanks for the list, in your first post you were calling it Darias' List so I thought the members name was Darias :)



edit: Could have sword you put Darias' I must be seeing things. Sweet I can start working on some PS1 titles too!

You didn't see things...I corrected it later, the apostroph was in the wrong place. English isn't my native language, and when I'm typing like the devil I make lots of mistakes. :)

[Sothy]

tail of the sun is not in any way shape or form an RPG.

Its a damn good Caveman running at full speed then falling asleep and rolling down a hillside simulator... but not an rpg.

[roushimsx]

For instance, you gain experience in the World Tour mode of Street Fighter Alpha 3.

You're taking what I said out of context and limiting your view to assuming that I meant that the leveling up / experience points / stats are the sole point instead of one of the main points. World Tour Mode is a nice bonus feature with RPG elements, though Ehrgeiz and Tobal no 2 had dungeon crawler bonus features as well... would you call those RPGs? Hell to the no. The mode itself might be RPGish, but it's not like it's the main game. It's like calling Knights of the Old Republic a gambling game, Kingdom Hearts an on rails shooter, or Mario & Luigi's Superstar Saga a puzzle game based solely on the minigames included.


Why? Because one has an isometric view and the other doesn't?

All Metroid and Zelda games (with the exception of the second!) are action adventure titles. It's not because of the viewpoint but because of the structure AND the inclusion of a leveling system. You know, like Ys III, Faxanadu or Symphony of the Night.

If you think that's silly, imagine how pen and paper players feel about computer RPGs (where there's not always a lot in the way of role playing) or how computer RPG fans feel about console RPGs (which are often extremely linear games with leveling mechanics...a far cry from any actual "role playing"). The only real constants (that I can think of, anyway) have been the leveling and the questing (or missions). As long as you have those two, then you've at least got some basis for calling a game an RPG. The definition of RPG isn't broad enough to cover all of the games in the collection but it's specific enough to cover games that aren't included :)

Hell, if there was a bit more consistency then it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Include From Software's first person rpgs but not Ion Storm Austin's? Include Future Tactics but not Ring of Red? No Grand Theft Auto San Andreas in the collection? Heroes of Might and Magic but no Daisenryaku VII Exceed? Why isn't Puzzle Quest included? With the inclusion of Everquest Online Adventures, you're pretty much stuck with requiring Final Fantasy XI, so you can't really call the collection complete without those, too.

I do agree that it helps to actually play games to determine if they're RPGs or not. It's quite possible that a reviewer or a friend will just label a game (like Ocarina of Time!) an RPG and you'll never know the better until you play it and realize that while it might be a great action adventure, but it's not quite an RPG. No amount of research on a title beats firing the fucker up and sitting down with it for a while.

[bcks007]

lendelin, Chaos Wars is another rpg coming out hopefully in march. :hail:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/data/934027.html

[Dreamc@sting]

Kudos to you! I attempted to complete my PSone RPG collection but it came to a quick hault. After I complete my genesis collection I may take a break from Sega, you inspired me :P

[poloplayr]

*drools*

very nice job!

[jedimind7]

Congrats on the collection. Very impressive.

[Volcanon]

Are these US releases only? You are missing the remakes of Phantasy Star 1 and 2.

[TonyTheTiger]

You're taking what I said out of context and limiting your view to assuming that I meant that the leveling up / experience points / stats are the sole point instead of one of the main points. World Tour Mode is a nice bonus feature with RPG elements, though Ehrgeiz and Tobal no 2 had dungeon crawler bonus features as well... would you call those RPGs? Hell to the no. The mode itself might be RPGish, but it's not like it's the main game. It's like calling Knights of the Old Republic a gambling game, Kingdom Hearts an on rails shooter, or Mario & Luigi's Superstar Saga a puzzle game based solely on the minigames included.



All Metroid and Zelda games (with the exception of the second!) are action adventure titles. It's not because of the viewpoint but because of the structure AND the inclusion of a leveling system. You know, like Ys III, Faxanadu or Symphony of the Night.

If you think that's silly, imagine how pen and paper players feel about computer RPGs (where there's not always a lot in the way of role playing) or how computer RPG fans feel about console RPGs (which are often extremely linear games with leveling mechanics...a far cry from any actual "role playing"). The only real constants (that I can think of, anyway) have been the leveling and the questing (or missions). As long as you have those two, then you've at least got some basis for calling a game an RPG. The definition of RPG isn't broad enough to cover all of the games in the collection but it's specific enough to cover games that aren't included :)

Hell, if there was a bit more consistency then it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Include From Software's first person rpgs but not Ion Storm Austin's? Include Future Tactics but not Ring of Red? No Grand Theft Auto San Andreas in the collection? Heroes of Might and Magic but no Daisenryaku VII Exceed? Why isn't Puzzle Quest included? With the inclusion of Everquest Online Adventures, you're pretty much stuck with requiring Final Fantasy XI, so you can't really call the collection complete without those, too.

I do agree that it helps to actually play games to determine if they're RPGs or not. It's quite possible that a reviewer or a friend will just label a game (like Ocarina of Time!) an RPG and you'll never know the better until you play it and realize that while it might be a great action adventure, but it's not quite an RPG. No amount of research on a title beats firing the fucker up and sitting down with it for a while.

Genre categories themselves are nothing more than measured based on how a game within the category relates to the others. I, personally, find calling Symphony of the Night an RPG absurd because it's plainly obvious that saying "If you liked Super Metroid you'll love Symphony" makes a hell of a lot more sense than saying "If you liked Chrono Trigger you'll love Symphony."

A really good example is Smash Bros. It's...kind of a fighting game...I suppose. But you'd have to be nuts to tell someone "If you like Street Fighter you'll like Smash." Hence something like Smash essentially bred a new genre or possibly subgenre within the parent umbrella of "fighting game."

I remember a philosophical question that relates to this. Imagine a heap of straw. Now remove one piece of straw. Is it still a heap? Now remove another piece. Is it still a heap? Eventually you'll get down to just one piece remaining. Is that one piece of straw a heap? Most people would say no. So that means one of two things. Either a single piece of straw really is a heap or there's one point where the cutoff happens. Something like ten pieces is a heap but take one more away and it's no longer a heap. But of course even that sounds crazy. It's the vagueness of "heap" that gets you there. Same with any genre.

[MrRoboto19XX]

Well done, that's an impressive collection indeed. Do you collect PS2 games with emphasis, and happen to have a lot of RPGs as a side effect, or do you just collect the RPGs?

Either way, what's your next PS2 goal?

[Daria]

Why do these threads always degenerate into a disscussion of genre definitions. Whether or not you consider Draken an RPG or not it's still an impressive collection.

And congrats Lendelin that's just a really nice horde of games. I especially liked your library analogy. It's all the reasons I collect games, but I'd never thought of it quite like that before. Also kind of funny to open the thread and see my name plastered over the first post.

Also while I love your definative PS2 list, this thread is actually a lot more helpful to me with all the pictures. I really haven't kept up with the PS2, I guess it just doesn't have the same magic as classic stlye RPGs. Probably why DQ8 is also my favorite PS2 game. But as I was saying, I can see you your pictures then easily spot the games when I hit EB or whatever. I don't intend to collect every PS2 RPG... but I can't pass up cheap RPGs when I find them and you know these things just sort of fall into place. But it's scary to think I have 60 something already, and while it seems like a sizable chunk it's only half the battle.

[heybtbm]

No I meant to remind you not to be a DICK about things. If the guy collects games and has reached his goal he doesn't need someone like you to tell him its not impressive. Again nice collection lendelin

Relax, kid. My response to your post was meant in good humor. It apparently went over your head.

Lendelin: Play Nocturne immediately. Open that sucker up and play it.

[ScourDX]

Just curious. Do you every consider getting FFXI & the expansion?

[roushimsx]

Genre categories themselves are nothing more than measured based on how a game within the category relates to the others. I, personally, find calling Symphony of the Night an RPG absurd because it's plainly obvious that saying "If you liked Super Metroid you'll love Symphony" makes a hell of a lot more sense than saying "If you liked Chrono Trigger you'll love Symphony."

Chrono Trigger, Symphony of the Night, Wizardry 8, Pokemon, Baten Kaitos, Planescape Torment, World of Warcraft, Fallout, and Ys are all completely different videogame RPGs, but they're all videogame RPGs all the same. Liking one doesn't mean you'll like any of the others because they're all done in radically different styles and create neat little subgenres. Super Smash Brothers is a fighting game, but it is pretty different from Street Fighter and more along the lines of Power Stone 2, another fighting game that I don't really dig despite loving more traditional stuff like King of Fighters 98 and more party stuff like Poitter's Point 2.

It's very rare that someone actually likes an entire main genre worth of stuff; Most people prefer their separate subgenres, but games in the RPG umbrella still share the common threads of stats/levels and quests/missions. After that then it's fair game to debate whether or not it falls under the main RPG umbrella or if it's one of those silly genre benders that straddles multiple main genres equally welll (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.!).


Why do these threads always degenerate into a disscussion of genre definitions. Whether or not you consider Draken an RPG or not it's still an impressive collection.

Funny, I said much the same thing when I started a post with, "Oh! Not to detract from the hotness of the collection...". Of course it's an impressive collection, but there's not much in the way of consistency throughout it and the thread title being fairly misleading when one of the lines in the OP is "...and all of the FF XI MMO RPGs I'm just not interested in". The reason why there's always a debate is because no one ever bothers to try to follow any sort of standard other than, "Turn based combat or Fantasy setting? It's an RPG!", which I think is completely the wrong way to go about it.

Really, I'm mostly curious about:

Include From Software's first person rpgs but not Ion Storm Austin's? Include Future Tactics but not Ring of Red? No Grand Theft Auto San Andreas in the collection? Heroes of Might and Magic but no Daisenryaku VII Exceed? Why isn't Puzzle Quest included? With the inclusion of Everquest Online Adventures, you're pretty much stuck with requiring Final Fantasy XI, so you can't really call the collection complete without those, too.

You can paint as broad of a definition as you want, but you should at least be able to define why it is you consider game X whatever and game Y whatever else.

[mezrabad]

Awesome collection and thanks for posting the pictures.

[Daria]

but there's not much in the way of consistency throughout it and the thread title being fairly misleading when one of the lines in the OP is "...and all of the FF XI MMO RPGs I'm just not interested in". The reason why there's always a debate is because no one ever bothers to try to follow any sort of standard other than, "Turn based combat or Fantasy setting? It's an RPG!", which I think is completely the wrong way to go about it.


The other thread is a chronicle of "PS2 RPGs" this is a bragging rights thread. When you're posting your personal collecting goals there's no right or wrong way to decide what should or shouldn't be included.

[hush]

man thats an awsome collection mine is not that big yet but i am an rpg fan and just starting on the serious collecting side of things

[esquire]

Lendelin: Nice collection. I'm right behind you sorta, only needing 12 more myself. I think more impressive is your complete strategy guides. That must have been a pain in the ass to track down some of the more obscure guides such as Evergrace, Eternal Ring and Forever Kingdom.

BTW, check your other thread on PS2 RPGs. You never responded to my question. I think you are short one game on the list - Swashbuckers - Blue vs. Grey.

[Skelix]

For not being your native language I think you do alright :) Much better than people with English as a native language.

As for the digression of the what is an rpg and what isn't. That's why I don't even care for the whole "genre" ideas. Games should be described with adjectives, like a brief summary. For example "Sci Fi Turn Based RPG" "Arcade Action Shooter" etc.

This thread makes me cry inside due to all the RPG's I have that I've never played/and or beat. From the Ultimas to the Bard's Tales to even the more modern PS3/360 titles. So many hours of games, so little real life time.

[lendelin]

It's very rare that someone actually likes an entire main genre worth of stuff; Most people prefer their separate subgenres, but games in the RPG umbrella still share the common threads of stats/levels and quests/missions. After that then it's fair game to debate whether or not it falls under the main RPG umbrella or if it's one of those silly genre benders that straddles multiple main genres equally welll (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.!).

Of course it's an impressive collection, but there's not much in the way of consistency throughout it and the thread title being fairly misleading when one of the lines in the OP is "...and all of the FF XI MMO RPGs I'm just not interested in". The reason why there's always a debate is because no one ever bothers to try to follow any sort of standard other than, "Turn based combat or Fantasy setting? It's an RPG!", which I think is completely the wrong way to go about it.


You can paint as broad of a definition as you want, but you should at least be able to define why it is you consider game X whatever and game Y whatever else.

roushimsx and TonyTheTiger, you are both right! This is not a cheap ‘let’s all hug’-strategy in order to avoid a clash of opinions, but you are both right to point to the fuzziness of genres and how hard it is to define them. One of the hardest genres to define are RPGs.

roushimsx, I agree that there is a lack of consistency in the PS2 RPG list – and therefore in my personal collection because I followed closely the list.

The lack of consistency is intentional because there was no better alternative. If we could agree on a definition with standards for a RPG we would certainly achieve consistency. Basically I sacrificed consistency on the altar of inclusion of borderline cases.

The reasons are twofold.

First, it would take a long time to agree on a definition, and once agreed we’d have problems with newly released games which stretch the genre again and change the need for a definition. (Deus Ex, Mass Effect) The time factor shouldn’t be underestimated; so far we still don’t have a useable and generally agreed definition after years of discussion.

Second, no matter how we define a RPG, no matter if we choose a minimal definition or an extensive content definition, we’ll always end up with questionable cases. We’ll always end up with games we want to include but fall outside of the definition, and vice versa.

Let’s say we define a RPG as a game which has to fulfill all of the following essential technical gameplay standards, ( which were proposed and discussed already years ago and I remember off the hat because I proposed and discussed some of them):

1) Some kind of statistics which define and describe certain attributes or skills of game characters.
2) The famous leveling-up, that means some kind of method to influence (increase) these statistics for characters.
3) There must be a menu for combat, just broadly a menu-driven combat system.

There are other standards proposed which may or may not be included as necessary conditions such as complex storylines, the latter is very weak one and shouldn’t be included imo.

You’ll always end up with cases which will raise eyebrows. Secret of Mana out, Alundra out, Popful Mail out. They fulfill two standards, but not a third one. Then you’ll always end up with cases which fulfill 1) and 2), but are just halfway there in the third standard category. Then you’ll end up with maybes like Disgaea and FF Tactics (Menu driven combat - yes, but still grid placement influences the battle; is it just a strategy game or a RPG?))

The point is, you’ll gain more consistency without any doubt when you have clearly defined standards.

But even with stricter standards there are always cases in which the feeling takes over – just enough gameplay elements for a category, or they fall just short to fulfill a category.

You’ll always end up with certain gameplay elements of another genre (see the above FF Tactics with strategy elements, replaceable with action elements and elements from many other genres). That’s why we have the genre combinations action/RPG, strategy RGP, and so many others.

In the last ten years we have the development tendency towards the hybrid game. I like it. Even in sports games we have now elements of statistical skill attributes which were once used only in RPGs. The result are the above mentioned genre benders which makes it even more difficult to agree on clearly defined RPG standards. It is more a matter of “feeling” even in the case of applied RPG-standards if certain RPG elements are essential gameplay elements or just used to color a game with or give it a mood of a RPG. In some posts of the original thread I discussed some of those cases.

The very simple reason I avoided a RPG definition for the list (AND my collection) is its recommendation character. It was designed to be as inclusionary as possible and not as the ‘ultimate’ RPG list. In the end everyone can add or remove titles for his personal list. However, I admit that the term "complete" is misleading because ther is no such thing.

The titles you address are indeed questionable for a strict RPG list, and there is an unavoidable lack of consistency. Facing big hurdles of defining standards, another option is simply to put ten or more of these titles in the borderline category. (Nine of them are currently in there) But then we’ll loose again the leeway recommendation character of the list.

It is certainly helpful to have played as many games as possible. But let’s say I played half of them, I’d be still dependent on recommendation of gamers for the games I have played and have not played, and still dependent on reviews to make decisions of inclusions or exclusions. We’d have anyway a hard time to find someone who has played 50% or 75% of the titles.

All I could do was being open-minded, tried to be fair, listen to the posters, and look up reviews for specific gameplay elements if they fit broadly RPG “expectations” if posters proposed a borderline case. (I never looked up just the genre label these games got in reviews)

I still wouldn’t have a prob putting the Harvest Moons, River King, Graffiti Kingdom and Magic Pengel and others in the borderline category, but I think that’s not so important.

I agree wholeheartedly with the content bias if we try to regard borderline cases as RPGs. If we see a guy in strange clothes with a big sword in front of a medieval castle, we certainly have an easier time to accept it as a RPG all other things being equal. Probably we'd have some doubts even about Dragon Quest VIII with the same gameplay elements but played with machine guns and nuclear knives, with scruffy looking gangsters, and placed in a dark chaotic world in 3020.

MMO RPGs are in the list but as an add-on after the borderline cases. I think it is up to everyone to have them in their own RPG collection or not.

This was a long post, that’s why I tried to avoid such a discussion in the RPG list- thread. :) A discussion with just a couple of posters about a definition of a RPG would be long, time-consuming, and sprinkled with long posts like mine from everyone.

[lendelin]

And congrats Lendelin that's just a really nice horde of games. I especially liked your library analogy. It's all the reasons I collect games, but I'd never thought of it quite like that before. Also kind of funny to open the thread and see my name plastered over the first post.

Also while I love your definative PS2 list, this thread is actually a lot more helpful to me with all the pictures. I really haven't kept up with the PS2, I guess it just doesn't have the same magic as classic stlye RPGs. Probably why DQ8 is also my favorite PS2 game. But as I was saying, I can see you your pictures then easily spot the games when I hit EB or whatever. I don't intend to collect every PS2 RPG... but I can't pass up cheap RPGs when I find them and you know these things just sort of fall into place. But it's scary to think I have 60 something already, and while it seems like a sizable chunk it's only half the battle.

I mentioned you because I remember very well your pictured Zelda collection, Dragon Quest collection, and of course the PS1 RPG collection. Just great to look at stuff llike that.

If you have already 60 of the games, I GUARANTEE you that you'll get the remaining games within the next three years. :) Your fascination with RPGs will take over. Let's face it, you can't resist to have ALL the RPGs for the PS1 and PS2. :)

I don't know if you have it already, but get the .hack box set from GS/EBgames soon. This might go up in price soon. Got not a lot of publicity, and how many of them were produced for a niche game like this and then exclusively distributed by one retailer?

[lendelin]

Just curious. Do you every consider getting FFXI & the expansion?

That's a very low priority...and that means probabaly never. :)

[lendelin]

Are these US releases only? You are missing the remakes of Phantasy Star 1 and 2.

Only US releases. I put the link to the DP thread with the game list in the OP.

[lendelin]

lendelin, Chaos Wars is another rpg coming out hopefully in march. :hail:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/data/934027.html

Geez, that makes four! :) maybe it was pre-mature to post the pics. Will it never stop? :)

[Daria]

New thread for genre discussion.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113452

[TonyTheTiger]

Personally, I think it's a good thing we have these crossbred games that borrow from multiple genres. Without these games straggling the line we'd have a pretty boring selection. I just use the heap example as a basis for everything. You have a game with elements X, Y, and Z. You define it as an RPG. Imagine removing element X. Do you still consider it an RPG? If so that element is negligible. If you don't then somehow that element is crucial to the genre. Some people are absolutist about it. For example, "Experience points are needed to make a game an RPG. Without experience point growth it is no longer an RPG." Other people are vagueists. They find that removing experience points from something like Final Fantasy doesn't automatically kick it out of the RPG genre. This is just a hypothetical but the absolutist/vagueist thing will never be resolved. Two competing theories. But no point in dragging this on any longer. Regardless, the collection is impressive. And Justice League Heroes, RPG or Beat-em-up, is too good to not own no matter what collection you're aiming for.

[Spartacus]

Very nice! I like seeing specific collection's because they just seem much more personal and meaningful. And I can relate to the difficulty in determining what to include or not. I collect shooters which one would normally think of as top down or side scrolling. But I couldn't in all good conscience exclude fixed point shooters like Space Invaders or 3rd person shooters like Panorama Cotton. So I understand the dilemma in determining how broadly or narrowly a genre could be defined.
I don't play RPG's myself, but I buy them because my son likes them. I'd happily play anything like Baldurs Gate though!

[Poofta!]

nice. i have a full ps1 rpg set, i do somehow prefer the ps1 over ps2 rpgs, but there are a lot of great ps2 rpgs ive yet to add to my collection... id say i have about 30-40 ps2 rpgs right now, and only about 20 more to go that i care about.

im going for a full rpg collection of ps1, snes and gba games. to me, all those feel the same on some strange level. im almost done w/ gba, ps1 is done, and snes has a lot to go, but i have all the expensive ones.

[jupitersj]

Nice collection! I didn't read the entire thread though after the trouble started :smash:

My PS2 RPG collection is nm-mint and 99% purchased new; is pretty close to yours and I hope to finish sometime soon. Some of your games I purchased for other systems instead. I had the same idea about them becoming way to expensive to complete years from now as I also don't have the financial resources to finish my ps1 collection while still collecting for the saturn. I need to finish up the dot hack's as well.

I don't really collect variants except for LE versions of games. I'm not interested in digimon/marvel/etc but I think I've done well so far ^__^ I need to really clean and resetup my game room so I can take pictures worth taking.

If you want to take a look you can check it out here.

http://users.ign.com/collection/faendryltunare

cheers ~ :cheers: ~

p.s. the Stella Deus is a flip cover. I also didn't notice Radiata Stories but I probably missed it with my tired eyes. .. edit... nm I found it XD

[Wolf]

Awesome, thats a really nice collection.

[jupitersj]

I don't know if you have it already, but get the .hack box set from GS/EBgames soon. This might go up in price soon. Got not a lot of publicity, and how many of them were produced for a niche game like this and then exclusively distributed by one retailer?

Is this a boxset for the games or just anime? I couldn't find it on their website and I never got into the anime series so I don't know >.>