Fees on eBay set to skyrocket for BIN for everything in the video game category

[winona2k]

We all gotta remember an important thing here...

"Buy it now"

so... if you sell in all auction format - no change?

Either way... might have to setup a CtCW account soon. This has gotten pretty ridiculous.

No change.

[megasdkirby]

Right now, and in all honesty, I'm happy I am a member at Chase the Chuckwagon. Already won my first auction. I feel so happy and proud. :)

I was going to make a membership at GameGavel, but the administrator places "Puerto Rico" as a seperate country instead of usually putting it as a US state, like in most places. Dunno, but that deterred me, specially if a seller starts to complain.

[Simply Dave]

I've been a member of ebay for 5 years, and the changes they have made in the last year or two make me sick.

I've been on several different message boards reading what people have to say about the changes and I have not read one single positive comment. Is there anybody out there that can say yeah I'm happy with the new changes?

I don't understand a company that makes changes where the reaction to the changes is met with such overwhelming negativity. It's baffling.

I hope CTCW and other sites do well. I'm really thinking about giving them a shot.

[Kaboomer]

Dunnu, in my experience most items will sell sooner or later despite the price beeing high. And if there is no fee or a very low fee to list the item, then you have very little to loose trying to get the higher price.

Good point and one that lots of ChaseTheChuckwagon members should keep in mind as well. Since we do not charge any listing fees it doesn't hurt you to relist a few times. Or start your items on the high end to begin with and then lower the price a bit as you relist, until it sells.

This is a good time for all of you to check out this link to our forum that discusses our members success selling on ChaseTheChuckwagon.com. Pay close attention to the thread ChaseTheChuckwagon.com VS. Ebay . . .
http://www.chasingthechuckwagon.com/upload/forumdisplay.php?f=17

[Kitsune Sniper]

Is there anybody out there that can say yeah I'm happy with the new changes?

eBay's CEO.

[gepeto]

DID I read that right. Ebay wants to end the auction setup for a giant buy it now scene.

The auction has been the heart of ebay and though I do like the BIN it forces sellers to go low up front but I think there will be alot of ex:games listed at the same price.

[Kitsune Sniper]

DID I read that right. Ebay wants to end the auction setup for a giant buy it now scene.

The auction has been the heart of ebay and though I do like the BIN it forces sellers to go low up front but I think there will be alot of ex:games listed at the same price.

They're actually trying to end buy it nows by increasing the final value fee on them.

I'll be listing items that used to be buy it now with the full price from the start just to get around that stupid fee.

[ryborg]

And if there is no fee or a very low fee to list the item, then you have very little to loose trying to get the higher price.

My time is just as valuable to my business as net income. If items sit around, not getting sold, my house turns into a tiny warehouse, with boxes and junk stacked up to the ceiling. If you're a small-time seller who only posts a few things a week, this is fine, but if you constantly have hundreds of items coming and going every week, this is not acceptable.

[Daft Punk]

Im done with them as well . Going to stop selling once I get a regular job. lol and that seems impossible around here.

[AB Positive]

wow, after taking an absolute financial drubbing with my last two auctions (Working twin fami for only $71? Genesis with all three phantasy stars for... $26???) I'm done with eBay as well. What a crock of shit.

Seriously. Done. It's not worth it in any regard.

[megasdkirby]

wow, after taking an absolute financial drubbing with my last two auctions (Working twin fami for only $71? Genesis with all three phantasy stars for... $26???) I'm done with eBay as well. What a crock of shit.

Seriously. Done. It's not worth it in any regard.

Sorry man. Just Phantasy Star 4 alone is worth that much. :(

But I noticed the trend as well...I recently picked up like 9 SMS CIB games for $1 each. Yeah...$1 EACH. Also picked up Alf for $20 CIB, nearly 35% less than when another DP member sold it for.

Yet I went a bit nuts on an Atari 7800 game...sigh...

Anyway, going back to the point, I notice that many "rare" games are not fetching high amounts on Ebay anymore. This can be taken as a good and bad thing.

Still, either way you see it, it is a bit scary...

[Wookie]

Any lawyers on this site? I'm wondering if ebay's recent moves constitute monopolistic behavior. Specifically:

(1) Forcing sellers to accept ebay-owned paypal and charging a fee for it, and prohibiting other payment methods.
(2) The marketing agreement between ebay and Yahoo that contained a requirement that Yahoo shut down its competing auction service.
(3) Fee increases following the above (proof of harm to consumers).
(4) Shipping rules that favor UPS and USPS (which, I believe, pay a fee to ebay) over fedex, DHL, and other 'non-preferred' shippers.
(5) Censoring of non-offensive content by forbidding neutral/negative feedback for buyers.

Serious question: should we be contacting our various attorney generals to have ebay declared and regulated as a monopoly?

[Kitsune Sniper]

Any lawyers on this site? I'm wondering if ebay's recent moves constitute monopolistic behavior. Specifically:

(1) Forcing sellers to accept ebay-owned paypal and charging a fee for it, and prohibiting other payment methods.
(2) The marketing agreement between ebay and Yahoo that contained a requirement that Yahoo shut down its competing auction service.
(3) Fee increases following the above (proof of harm to consumers).
(4) Shipping rules that favor UPS and USPS (which, I believe, pay a fee to ebay) over fedex, DHL, and other 'non-preferred' shippers.
(5) Censoring of non-offensive content by forbidding neutral/negative feedback for buyers.

Serious question: should we be contacting our various attorney generals to have ebay declared and regulated as a monopoly?

It doesn't take a law degree to figure out this IS a monopoly.

[Wookie]

It doesn't take a law degree to figure out this IS a monopoly.

Yes, but is it acting illegally? And if so, what to do about it? I was hoping someone with leagl expertise could advise on formulating a complaint. I don't think an email to the state AG will have any effect.

[eugenek]

Yes, but is it acting illegally? And if so, what to do about it? I was hoping someone with leagl expertise could advise on formulating a complaint. I don't think an email to the state AG will have any effect.

Just FYI, the plural of Attorney General is "Attorneys General" and not "Attorney Generals." Common mistake.

Anyway, at least a few class action suits have already been filed and are pending in California, they've been joined in in re Ebay Seller Antitrust Litigation, No. 07-1882 N.D. Cal., No. C 07-01882 JF (2008) if you want to look it up in LexisNexis. That case should be the bellwether for similar antitrust cases.

[Wookie]

Anyway, at least a few class action suits have already been filed and are pending in California, they've been joined in in re Ebay Seller Antitrust Litigation, No. 07-1882 N.D. Cal., No. C 07-01882 JF (2008) if you want to look it up in LexisNexis. That case should be the bellwether for similar antitrust cases.

Thanks for the link, although I had to track it down on Google because I couldn't find it on LexisNexis. That appears to be a suit for damages relating to paypal charges. It doesn't deal with ebay's other monopolistic practices and would, at best, result in some nearly worthless voucher. I was really hoping for an antitrust suit brought by the government similar to what happened with Microsoft. One of the remedies considered, but not imposed, in that case was to split Microsoft's operating system and applications divisions into separate companies with cross-ownership prohibited. Separating ebay from Paypal (and barring ebay from starting/buying another payment service) would be a good start.

[eugenek]

Thanks for the link, although I had to track it down on Google because I couldn't find it on LexisNexis. That appears to be a suit for damages relating to paypal charges. It doesn't deal with ebay's other monopolistic practices and would, at best, result in some nearly worthless voucher. I was really hoping for an antitrust suit brought by the government similar to what happened with Microsoft. One of the remedies considered, but not imposed, in that case was to split Microsoft's operating system and applications divisions into separate companies with cross-ownership prohibited. Separating ebay from Paypal (and barring ebay from starting/buying another payment service) would be a good start.

You might have to trace back the original cases, but it deals with a lot (plaintiffs made seven claims; one was dismissed) of alleged monopolistic practices:

"Based on the foregoing allegations, plaintiffs allege that eBay violated Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Act and Sections 1620 and 17200 of the California Business & Professional Code, and assert claims for: (1) abuse of monopoly power and monopoly maintenance for online auctions; (2) attempted monopolization of the market for online auctions; (3) abuse of monopoly power and monopoly maintenance in the market for person-to-person online payment systems; (4) attempted monopolization of the market for person-to-person online payment systems; (5) per se unreasonable tying; (6) unlawful trust, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade and commerce; and (7) unfair business practices."

Regardless, of the list that you posted, I don't think a lot of them pass muster...the first is definitely a concern, and maybe the second (though I don't know the details), but I don't see the remainder as restraint of trade:

(3) Fee increases following the above (proof of harm to consumers).

When milk prices rise, that hurt consumers too, but that's not monopolistic unless there was some price fixing going on, and there's no evidence of that.

(4) Shipping rules that favor UPS and USPS (which, I believe, pay a fee to ebay) over fedex, DHL, and other 'non-preferred' shippers.

Paying a fee and being someone's "preferred" anything is an accepted part of business.

(5) Censoring of non-offensive content by forbidding neutral/negative feedback for buyers.

This is irrelevant with respect to antitrust legislation...it's their site, they can arrange the feedback however they want. Is there a restraint of trade issue here?

[Wookie]

Regardless, of the list that you posted, I don't think a lot of them pass muster...the first is definitely a concern, and maybe the second (though I don't know the details), but I don't see the remainder as restraint of trade:

(3) Fee increases following the above (proof of harm to consumers).

When milk prices rise, that hurt consumers too, but that's not monopolistic unless there was some price fixing going on, and there's no evidence of that.

(4) Shipping rules that favor UPS and USPS (which, I believe, pay a fee to ebay) over fedex, DHL, and other 'non-preferred' shippers.

Paying a fee and being someone's "preferred" anything is an accepted part of business.

(5) Censoring of non-offensive content by forbidding neutral/negative feedback for buyers.

This is irrelevant with respect to antitrust legislation...it's their site, they can arrange the feedback however they want. Is there a restraint of trade issue here?

OK, I knew the feedback thing was a reach. As to the 2nd & 3rd items, the agreement between ebay and yahoo boiled down to this: ebay pays Yahoo to promote ebay, and in turn, Yahoo agreed to shut down thier competing auction business. This was followed, almost immediately, by fee increases on ebay. So there's harm to consumers (fee increase) from the elimination of competition. I thought proving harm was essential in an antitrust case.

The shipping thing is tricky. Yes, they can designate preferred shippers, but when their rules are specifically designed to freeze out other options, they have crossed a line. Sellers are not employees of ebay, so it's not the same as my employer having, say, a preferred airline and booking all business travel on them.

Also, the recent decision to impose shipping charge limits on some items is discriminatory since it favors those sellers living in the middle of the country over those living at the corners (shipping cost being partially determined by distance, a Seattle to Miami shipment, for example, costs more than the same package shipped from Kansas to anywhere in the continental US).

[eugenek]

OK, I knew the feedback thing was a reach. As to the 2nd & 3rd items, the agreement between ebay and yahoo boiled down to this: ebay pays Yahoo to promote ebay, and in turn, Yahoo agreed to shut down thier competing auction business. This was followed, almost immediately, by fee increases on ebay. So there's harm to consumers (fee increase) from the elimination of competition. I thought proving harm was essential in an antitrust case.

The shipping thing is tricky. Yes, they can designate preferred shippers, but when their rules are specifically designed to freeze out other options, they have crossed a line. Sellers are not employees of ebay, so it's not the same as my employer having, say, a preferred airline and booking all business travel on them.

Also, the recent decision to impose shipping charge limits on some items is discriminatory since it favors those sellers living in the middle of the country over those living at the corners (shipping cost being partially determined by distance, a Seattle to Miami shipment, for example, costs more than the same package shipped from Kansas to anywhere in the continental US).

I can't find anything about this Yahoo/eBay agreement? Do you have a source?

Also, could you elaborate on the preferred shipper rules? My first inclination is to think that if USPS (a government agency) is a preferred shipper, then the government is not going to sue to get worse terms for themselves.

Finally, that shipping charge limit argument is very innovative. I like it! Unfortunately, the law which prohibits price discrimination (Robinson-Patman Act) applies only to goods, but not services. Furthermore, as eBay themselves recommend, you can merely add the extra shipping to the start bid of your item.

[bitrate]

Furthermore, as eBay themselves recommend, you can merely add the extra shipping to the start bid of your item.


Thereby increasing the final value fee of the auction and quite possibly the insertion fee as well.
What a generous and elegant solution they came up with for us there.

[eugenek]

Thereby increasing the final value fee of the auction and quite possibly the insertion fee as well.
What a generous and elegant solution they came up with for us there.

Exactly! People think eBay cares about all the complaining regarding excessive shipping, but that's total BS. They just want more of the "shipping" money to go into their pockets.

[Wookie]

I can't find anything about this Yahoo/eBay agreement? Do you have a source?

Also, could you elaborate on the preferred shipper rules? My first inclination is to think that if USPS (a government agency) is a preferred shipper, then the government is not going to sue to get worse terms for themselves.

Finally, that shipping charge limit argument is very innovative. I like it! Unfortunately, the law which prohibits price discrimination (Robinson-Patman Act) applies only to goods, but not services. Furthermore, as eBay themselves recommend, you can merely add the extra shipping to the start bid of your item.

Errr, now I can't find it either. I found plenty of references to ebay and Yahoo signing an advertising agreement but couldn't find any overt tie to the shutdown of Yahoo's auction. The closest is this article:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/315042_yahooauction10.html
which ends with this statement:
'By closing its auction site, Yahoo also might score points with San Jose, Calif.-based eBay, one of the company's major advertising partners.' So I guess I misremember this one.

The suggestion to raise the starting price to make up for capped shipping charges is clearly nonsense, however, in an auction context. If two identical items are offered for auction with identical shipping charges, they could be expected to end at similar prices (ignoring the usual fluctuations), but the seller who has to ship further ends up with less profit. The starting price has nothing to do with the ending price.

The USPS might very well be interested in the capping of shipping charges. The maximum price set for shipping a videogame is $4. This is less than the cost of sending a 1 pound package cross-country by any means except media mail. My post office says videogames don't qualify for media mail rates. Seems to me this will cause more sellers to ship games as if they are media (thus committing fraud) and result in a loss of revenue for USPS.

[koster]

The USPS might very well be interested in the capping of shipping charges. The maximum price set for shipping a videogame is $4. This is less than the cost of sending a 1 pound package cross-country by any means except media mail. My post office says videogames don't qualify for media mail rates. Seems to me this will cause more sellers to ship games as if they are media (thus committing fraud) and result in a loss of revenue for USPS.
I've never had problems shipping disc-based games using the media-mail rate. Amazon seems to use media mail all the time for my orders with 'super saver' shipping - even if the order contains GBA/DS games.

[eugenek]

The suggestion to raise the starting price to make up for capped shipping charges is clearly nonsense, however, in an auction context. If two identical items are offered for auction with identical shipping charges, they could be expected to end at similar prices (ignoring the usual fluctuations), but the seller who has to ship further ends up with less profit. The starting price has nothing to do with the ending price.



Oh, I agree, I misspoke. I meant starting price for fixed price sales and I said starting bid, my mistake. Don't the maximums only apply for fixed sales? From this thread title, it sounds like only BIN is affected, though I haven't looked closely at eBay's official pages...

What the seller should do, anyway, is charge everyone the maximum shipping. So you'll lose money occasionally on buyers living far away, but you should make a little money for buyers close to you. In the end it should even out, more or less. As far as living in the corners, well, perhaps there's something to that, though by population distribution, most of your packages will be going to California anyway.

[jb143]

For shipping, it says that you must offer 1 option that's less than a certain ammount. Can that option be free local pickup? :p

You can ship most games media mail for a lot cheaper but media mail takes qute a bit longer to arrive. I've had quite a few buyers getting pretty ancy when their package isn't there 2 days after they've waited a week to pay. Plus you have to actually take it to the post office when they're open...which can be very inconvinient at times.

[carlcarlson]

In my experience First Class has usually been cheaper than Media Mail. Of course neither of those are available if you do the automatic checkout through Paypal...

[Vroomfunkel]

Errr, now I can't find it either. I found plenty of references to ebay and Yahoo signing an advertising agreement but couldn't find any overt tie to the shutdown of Yahoo's auction. The closest is this article:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/315042_yahooauction10.html
which ends with this statement:
'By closing its auction site, Yahoo also might score points with San Jose, Calif.-based eBay, one of the company's major advertising partners.' So I guess I misremember this one.

Try this:

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/05/23/yahoo.ebay/index.html

Or this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/business/2004188.stm

Seems pretty clear cut to me!

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

Since I opened www.GameGavel.com in repsonse to the first eBay price hike and rule implementation I didn't expect eBay to start going further down the path of insanity. While I may not agree that fees should be charged at all, and GameGavel.com is free I think that both www.GameGavel.com and ChasetheChuckwagon (a lower fee based site) have a wide open door to show that you don't need to have coporate greediness to win out in the internet age.

When has eBay ever given you something for free? When have they ever let you auction off something for free? When have they ever taken inputs from you and tried to implement them in a timely manner? When have they ever done something to make you want to use them? I would say never.

www.GameGavel.com has given away over $1000 in prizes since its inception, including a special DP only contest where MNBREN05 won a free Nintendo DS. In the last month there have been over 300 successful auction closes, and more coming. In the past two weeks we have had 32 new people join up. All the time, not a single person has paid to use www.GameGavel.com! It's been completely free.

While some people have had limited success, potentially due to higher starting prices or slow buying periods, things do sell on the smaller sites. While it may not be prudent from a business stand point to applaud the competion, Chase the Chuckwagon has had great success just as www.GameGavel.com has which shows that as a group Video Gamers are simply tired of getting shafted by the eBay corporate machine.

If you truely are tired of ebay, join www.GameGavel.com and let everyone you know hear about it! In fact, I am hiring promoters still... so if you really want to fight eBay and help get the grassroots effort going visit www.GameGavel.com today to see more information about the promoters jobs available!

www.GameGavel.com The Free Video Game Auction Site

[ryborg]

Wait, what's the name and web address of your site?

[Kaboomer]

Here is an interesting article on Ebay:

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=5626840&page=1

[ryborg]

I don't know why some journalists are saying that ebay's recent changes will lead sellers AWAY from auctions. They're raising the prices significantly for BIN, so I'm going to use more auctions than I have recently, except when I have a truckload of the same item.

[jb143]

I don't know why some journalists are saying that ebay's recent changes will lead sellers AWAY from auctions. They're raising the prices significantly for BIN, so I'm going to use more auctions than I have recently, except when I have a truckload of the same item.

Yes, when we hear about it on sites like this. But Ebay is aparently only advertising half the story.

This is the spin that Ebay put on it in an Email I recently got from them.

Plus, we're introducing a new 15¢ Insertion Fee for Fixed Price listings in these categories--regardless of the asking price or number of items in the listing. This new Fixed Price fee includes 30-day duration and automatic renewal option at no extra cost.

Nowhere do they mention higher final value fees. Sellers reading that might jump all over it. It apears to make BIN listing act like a store listing but without all the extra hastle.

[skaar]

These changes SUCK. Time to unload whatever leftover systems I have left ASAP.


But they'll see that as their new scheme working out really well as volume is way up! :D

[Cornelius]

Just bringing this back to ask a quick question: The new fee structure goes into effect 9/16. Does this apply to auctions that start 9/16, or also to auctions that end 9/16 or later?

I'd assume those that start 9/16 and later, but the page doesn't seem to say for sure.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Usually, new fees are put into effect on auctions that are listed on the day of the changes. Auctions that start before the changes take place are still charged the older fees. At least that's how it used to be...

Right now I'm putting up as much crap as I can. I won't be putting anything up next week, most likely... but my sales have been awful for the past three weeks. It's as if everyone is leaving eBay. :\

[Cornelius]

Usually, new fees are put into effect on auctions that are listed on the day of the changes. Auctions that start before the changes take place are still charged the older fees. At least that's how it used to be...

Right now I'm putting up as much crap as I can. I won't be putting anything up next week, most likely... but my sales have been awful for the past three weeks. It's as if everyone is leaving eBay. :\
I've noticed depressed prices lately, too. I figure a combo of people spending on back-to-school instead and simply being back at school so less time. Oh, and the crappy economy. I figure it will pick back up for xmas season soon, but too late to beat these ebay fee changes.

[Bibliophile]

I for one am glad that ebay is instituting such a policy. Why you ask?

Because I have always been in favor of GameGavel and ChasetheChuckWagon since they were launched, and I wanted to see them both grow. This new policy can only help both of them--exactly what I want to see.

Thanks ebay!

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

I agree Bibliophile... I love when eBay implements more of these policies. These policies, combined with great contests, awesome features, and a growing userbase will help www.GameGavel.com thrive.

eBay, keep it up!

[Market Man]

That's right gang! When eBay employs draconian measures, they're actually hanging them from your balls! Phantom testicles if you're a female!

Which is why I've started MarketManLickMyBalls.com, a site dedicated to bringing together independent, small fry parties interested in putting their gonads on someone's tongue! Remember, you can get your balls licked at MarketManLickMyBalls.com, sometimes there's a contest over who can fit the most in your mouth! I practice with hardboiled eggs. At MarketManLickMyBalls.com

MarketManLickMyBalls.com!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Market Man's Crotch]

Phooey on you, Market Man! I'm starting MarketCrotchChaseMyScrotum.com, and I'm going to bring up MarketCrotchChaseMyScrotum.com every time you mention your site!

[ryborg]

Market Man, when will you reveal your true identity? You're like, my hero and stuff.

[Cornelius]

I'd rather see Market Man's Crotch unmasked... er, waitaminute...

[JohnnyA]

Bump to remind people this has begun.