Resealed Lunar 2 - Eternal Blue for Sega CD. LOL!

[Dark_Sol]

dellllll

[Press_Start]

Ouch! What a ripoff.

Have you demanded your money back yet?

[Dark_Sol]

Ouch! What a ripoff.

Have you demanded your money back yet?
Yep! I already emailed seller with IMMIDIATE refund request. I cannot tolerate such crap at all.

[Deadpixels]

Wow. That's really shady, and one of the worst fakes I've ever seen. Sorry about your luck.

[natinh0]

It was bought from the forum?
If so...
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/natinh0/imagem.jpg

[MachineGex]

It looks like a Sega CD case minus the black part that keeps the disc in place. What a scam....who sold this to you?

[carlcarlson]

I assume you saw it before you bought it? If so... why did you buy it?

[Lady Jaye]

It was bought from the forum?

The OP didn't say he bought it on DP. But if that was the case, I would strongly suggest to post in the Feedback Forum about that seller (after checking whether that seller already has a thread in that forum).

[Dark_Sol]

I bought it from ebay.
The picture was small i could not see clearly. But shit... i've just realized it was on a grey background!! I guess that dude made such background specially to fool people! oh crap how could i not see a a fake..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=370076613104&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=024
look here http://i3.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/04/57/916a_1.JPG

[Kitsune Sniper]

Wow, what a scam. But if you opened it... well, wouldn't that pretty much void the whole "sealed" thing? Since it was sealed and now it's not?

[Dark_Sol]

Wow, what a scam. But if you opened it... well, wouldn't that pretty much void the whole "sealed" thing? Since it was sealed and now it's not?
Not it's not. I don't open sealed expensive games for fun. My luck it was not that expensive at all.. When i got it, it was TOO obvious it's a fake. Moreover when i opened it there's NO disc inside. That means i won't need to return anything at all if i file a paypal dispute. Simply becuase it was listed as game .. and there's no game inside! lol

[megasdkirby]

Wow, what a scam. But if you opened it... well, wouldn't that pretty much void the whole "sealed" thing? Since it was sealed and now it's not?

Pretty much why I don't go for the "sealed games" thing. Imagine getting a sealed game for 1K and never knowing if the game is inside...and when you finally decided to open it...POW, the game is not there!

I hope you receive a complete refund. Also mark it as NOT AS DESCRIBED in the areas of "different item" and "missing parts".

[Dark_Sol]

Pretty much why I don't go for the "sealed games" thing. Imagine getting a sealed game for 1K and never knowing if the game is inside...and when you finally decided to open it...POW, the game is not there!

I hope you receive a complete refund. Also mark it as NOT AS DESCRIBED in the areas of "different item" and "missing parts".
Thanx for understanding!
Sure i will. If the seller refuse to do a refund before moving to paypal.
Sealed games are serious business indeed. The amount of fakes on ebay are beyond all limits.

[Dark_Sol]

Look what we have here!!!

" I think you should take one step back with your
accusations. I checked your you tube sight and the link is worthless. It
doesn't go anywhere. For a fact I know the casing was in good shape,since I
mentioned to you about a slight frontal scratch. The game was sealed since
it was purchased with original wrap and price tag. This was my brother's
game before he died recently, and he wasn't into anything shady. I
inherited it and put it on E-BAY. The way it photographed was the exact way
it looked. I packed it up to yor specifications, a sturdy U.S.P.S. box with
your purchase wrapped in bubble wrap and packed in peanut styrofoam. You
claim the box was badly deformed, why did it take 22 days for it to reach
you? That's a long time, did it go through Georgia? Was it picked apart by
the time you got it. That game was straight from the vendor , to the
retailer, to the purchaser and never opened, with a price tag still
attached to it. Remember I'm not a blind man nor a novice on E-BAY. I KNOW
THE KIND OF GAMES THAT TAKE PLACE INTERNATIONALLY, THAT'S WHY, ON MY
AUCTIONS I PUT DOMESTIC ONLY. I TOOK A SHOT WITH YOU, EVEN THOUGH I HAD
OTHER BIDDERS. So don't you ever accuse me of being a thief for a lousy
$42. My feedback and customer service speaks for it's self, wheras yours is
a bit shady with 4 negatives,in last 6 mos. and a change reently in your
feedback comments to private. Why is that. Read the purchase agreement, no
insurance, no returns, no refunds. Go after the U.S.P.S. system, if you
have to. I recently had people not pay for purchaseS THAT THEY MADE, and
wrote them off and moved on. Yours motives are corrupt and unacceptable to
the morals of E-BAY. Nice try in stealing a product and trying to get money
back. I'm citing you to E-BAY for that."

[pwpcody]

that is rediculous man.

[Lady Jaye]

Still call bullshit on that. It's an amateur shrinkwrap, not an industrial shrinkwrap and the fact is that he photographed a clear-case box against a dark backdrop to make it look dark. That alone speaks for itself.

BTW, is the price tag under or above the shrinkwrap? If under, that seals (lol) the case.

[Dark_Sol]

Still call bullshit on that. It's an amateur shrinkwrap, not an industrial shrinkwrap and the fact is that he photographed a clear-case box against a dark backdrop to make it look dark. That alone speaks for itself.

BTW, is the price tag under or above the shrinkwrap? If under, that seals (lol) the case.
It was above the shrinkwrap.
And yes i've figured later that he managed to make a photo above some gray background to make it look legit!

[Lady Jaye]

Still, good call on the whole thing, and it's a good thing you made those two videos -- that oughta help you in the dispute over ebay. Looks like you're not going to have an easy one with that one.

BTW, did you film the removal of the shrinkwrap and the discovery of the lack of a disk? If so, that would help you too.

[Natty Bumppo]

I am not at home, but the I may have an explanation for this.

I have a store display copy of "rise of the dragon" (the plastic case version, not the cardboard case one).


It has a case, the art work (the manual itself is blank but has the covers) and a blank cd. IIRC the case is clear - can't remember for sure but will check tonight.

It is the only display copy of a sega cd game I have ever seen, but I am sure there were others and there might have been variations on how they were made. So this might have been a display copy - if someone stole it from the store, the surprise would be on them and the store was not out a full game - but it would explain the sticker on it. (It might have also had a sticker "coming soon" (or a release date) that was removed at some point in time. ) (If this is true it is possible the seller didn't know what he was actually selling - not trying to defend him, just mentioning it.)




Also, is the manual and back artwork the same type of paper stock as a regular sega cd? If not, it could be inidcative of a boot (and it is hard to tell from the photos but your purchase seems a bit washed out - also indicative of a boot) - if so you could argue that with or without a cd, it is still a boot - something clearly against ebay rules.

[Dark_Sol]

Still call bullshit on that. It's an amateur shrinkwrap, not an industrial shrinkwrap and the fact is that he photographed a clear-case box against a dark backdrop to make it look dark. That alone speaks for itself.

BTW, is the price tag under or above the shrinkwrap? If under, that seals (lol) the case.
I've had problem with reseals in the past. So now i'm very clever and do videos all the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUCZj7xQIuI
here it is :)

[Dark_Sol]

I am not at home, but the I may have an explanation for this.

I have a store display copy of "rise of the dragon" (the plastic case version, not the cardboard case one).


It has a case, the art work (the manual itself is blank but has the covers) and a blank cd. IIRC the case is clear - can't remember for sure but will check tonight.

It is the only display copy of a sega cd game I have ever seen, but I am sure there were others and there might have been variations on how they were made. So this might have been a display copy - if someone stole it from the store, the surprise would be on them and the store was not out a full game - but it would explain the sticker on it. (It might have also had a sticker "coming soon" (or a release date) that was removed at some point in time. ) (If this is true it is possible the seller didn't know what he was actually selling - not trying to defend him, just mentioning it.)




Also, is the manual and back artwork the same type of paper stock as a regular sega cd? If not, it could be inidcative of a boot (and it is hard to tell from the photos but your purchase seems a bit washed out - also indicative of a boot) - if so you could argue that with or without a cd, it is still a boot - something clearly against ebay rules.
Looks like display case indeed. That's what information i acquired from rarebucky, a very respected sealed collector:

"This is how Walden Software (which is now Gamestop) used to display their new games. They would have a "shell" case with no game tray inside, sealed up with their pricetag. I remember this very well"

Unfortunately i don't live in USA so i never visited Gamestop :) So could not have such knowledge... Well.
The worst thing is that this shithead managed to photoshop the picture he put on ebay! I would never bid on a clear case with a manual! And his one looked almost ok.

[Kyle15]

That is downright NASTY!
But, he cannot defend himself with that kind of proof on your side. ;)

[megasdkirby]

Dark_Sol,

Create a dispute and detail everything in the explanation. Ask for a full refund and mark the items as I mentioned earlier, PLUS it being a fake/counterfeit. After doing that, immediately elevate it to a claim. Add the Youtube videos as proof. Add all the emails and conversations you've had with him as proof.

Let Paypal sort it out. You will surely win.

Also, report him to ebay for SNAD. That will surely bite his ass. Then give him a negative.

It was his brother's copy...sure...pure bull.

I hope you get your money back.

[cyberfluxor]

Either way you look at it, the auction is worded to your advantage.

First, being a "factory sealed" game, it clearly wasn't and became a reseal by either the seller or wherever they got it from.

Second, "NO INSURANCE, NO REFUND OR REPLACEMENT IF LOST OR MISHANDLED BY THE U.S.P.S. SYSTEM." This isn't an insurance situation, unsatisfied customer, or replaceable item, but rather a straight up misrepresented item. The false description pretty much voids any "disclaimers" by the seller.

Third, "USE THE PHOTO AS A GUIDE TO BIDDING" is just screwed up. The photo has been arranged by the seller as an attempt to sell it off for what it's not. This should have been a red flag, but sometimes lore can get the best of you. If that wasn't an underhanded attempt to not be liable for the item sold I don't know what is. It makes the seller appear as a complete fool to match that sentence against the email he sent you in rage.

Good luck with your dispute and hope you actually see some of that money back.

[dao2]

y did you take an unboxing video of it before you knew it was fake o_0?

[cyberfluxor]

y did you take an unboxing video of it before you knew it was fake o_0?

For solid proof of such. Simply read the first part of his post, then piece together why he would record the unfoiling. Would you not have done the same if you purcased a sealed game that was supposed to come with a bunch of pack-ins but felt as though it were air filled?

[TheRealist50]

seriously...people are so dumb I mean like...wow. why couldn't he atleast use the actually black inside piece from another case and put like a Britney Spears CD inside. its common sense stuff we are dealing with here.

[dao2]

For solid proof of such. Simply read the first part of his post, then piece together why he would record the unfoiling. Would you not have done the same if you purcased a sealed game that was supposed to come with a bunch of pack-ins but felt as though it were air filled?

But how would you know it was empty before you even opened it :| And if you see the box it came in it seems fairly big with a lot of packing and duct tape, it wouldn't be exactly the lightest thing ;p edit: I'm not talking about the second 2 recordings, but the original one where he unboxed the package he got in the mail ><


seriously...people are so dumb I mean like...wow. why couldn't he atleast use the actually black inside piece from another case and put like a Britney Spears CD inside. its common sense stuff we are dealing with here.

Meh maybe the seller wasn't trying to jip him. It does look like those saturn display cases and lunar 2 would certainly have one :| I think the grey thing is a coincidence, I woulda chosen black if I was faking it. But he should definitely own up to it and refund the money even if it is like that, but maybe he thinks that he's lying about it >< There are a lot of stories about international sellers going about...

It might be understandable, but I think with the solid proof he provided (along with a testimony that a real case wouldn't be clear like that) should be more than enough to convince someone that it's not a real sealed lunar 2 and he should be refunded.

[Dark_Sol]

The seller lost his sense. At first he offered partial refund if i close paypal dispute. I refused. I told him - full refund and end of story. Later on he agreed on full refund but i need to post positive first!?!?!? WHO DO AM I HE's THINKING?? I am not dumb.

Just look at one of his amazing emails:

"
SCARED OF WHAT , YOU. I DON'T GIVE A FK!!! ANYMORE. WITH YOU I'VE LOST ALL
FAITH IN ANAL ORRIFICES LIKE YOU. ONCE A RUUSIAN ALWAYS A RUSSIAN AS IT
GOES. YOU PEOPLE LIKE TO BULLY LITTLE COUNTRIES LIKE GEORGIA, YOUR DEALING
WITH A BIG BOY FROM BROOKLYN WHO DOESN'T GIVE A #@$#$%%%^%^^^%#$#%%%^^MF
ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK. I 'VE MADE MY PIECE WITH A BAD SITUATION. MY BROYHER
GOT SCAMMED AND I GOT THE BRUNT OF IT. IT'S NOT MY FAULT, BUT I'LL TAKE THE
BLAME. SO TRY CONTINUE BEING A FLAMING B, I DON'T GIVE A FK."


after this email i reported him to ebay for fraud and as a problem with a inadequate seller. And also told him i am going straight to paypal claim.

[Volcanon]

It's probably some 16 year old or an idiot trying to get "free money".

[Superman]

Before hearing about the seller's emails, I could see how he might have thought the item was new and sealed. His brother might have known someone who worked at Walden software or went dumpster diving to get the empty display case. When the seller 'inherited' it from his brother, if he didn't know much about games, he got what looked like a new, sealed game.

After seeing the emails, something is definitely up. Maybe he is insulted because he feels you are calling his deceased brother a liar or someother reason; I don't know. But something is up.

You have good evidence though. Good luck.

[Sothy]

I think everyone knows it is fake but legally there is no proof beyond " a shadow of a doubt" unless you had video of it coming out of the shipping box as well.

[megasdkirby]

I think everyone knows it is fake but legally there is no proof beyond " a shadow of a doubt" unless you had video of it coming out of the shipping box as well.

He did...he made videos before opening, while opening, taking out the game, removing seal, etc.

I see this seller NARU'd soon...

[Dark_Sol]

some more things:

The seller, CHARLES GELISH, has escalated the dispute opened on 09/15/2008.
By escalating this dispute to a claim, CHARLES GELISH is asking PayPal to
investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation,
we will review any communication you have had with the seller in the
Resolution Center.

next:

We are in the process of investigating the following claim:


Seller's Name: CHARLES GELISH
Seller's Email: GELSTAR1@AOL.COM
Seller's Transaction ID: 9D515277WM505044A
Transaction Date: Aug 22, 2008
Transaction Amount: -$62.84 USD
Your Transaction ID: 9L621845PB2909829
Case Number: PP-545-590-743

In order to continue this investigation, please file a police report with
your local police station that highlights your issue and fax a copy of the
report to PayPal. This document should be on headed police paper/stamped
police paper and clearly show the problem with the transaction.

Submit supporting documentation via our Resolution Centre. You can do this
by following these steps:

1. Click "Resolve Complaint."
2. Select the button to provide the documentation and click "Continue."
3. Select a method to submit your documentation.

Alternatively you can fax supporting documentation to PayPal at 08707 303
196. Please include a cover sheet with your fax that includes the primary
email address registered on your PayPal account and the ID number of the
claim PP-545-590-743. This will allow us to attach the document to the
claim as quickly as possible.

Please ensure we receive your fax documentation within the next ten days.
Your claim will be cancelled if we do not receive your fax documentation
within this time. We cannot grant extensions to this. Please note that
PayPal is unable to reimburse you for any costs or fees incurred in
obtaining the requested documents. Documents you provide may be supplied to
the seller in your dispute.

Thank you for your patience and co-operation regarding this matter.

Sincerely,
LaMonica
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

=======
What the hell should this do with a local police station????

[carlcarlson]

Gah, you might be screwed. Sometimes Paypal decides that it needs a notary or a police report to decide a claim. Usually that proves to be more work than most people are willing to put into the claim, and it's dropped. It seems to be random too, at least in my experience.

Did you have an opportunity to post the links to your videos? That's another problem with Paypal, they often times don't allow you to provide your evidence. It's like "give us three coconuts you hand-picked in Hawaii or you lose. No no, we don't care if you have seventeen witnesses, one of whom used to be the President. We need coconuts."

Good luck man.

[Dark_Sol]

delllll

[fishsandwich]

What an ass... actually calling you out on being Russian!

Out of curiosity... why do you have four negatives in the last six months and now have private feedback?

[Dark_Sol]

What an ass... actually calling you out on being Russian!

Out of curiosity... why do you have four negatives in the last six months and now have private feedback?
Indeed i'm out of luck...
Yes i had negatives. It's a long sad story. One is from a dork who sent me games via priority even though i've paid for express mail. It took a month to receive games. I got no refund and no excuses. Unfortunately he managed to remove the negs i left for him. And i could not do it because the asshole played very polite and clever with ebay somehow.
Three more negs is even more ridiculous story. I won three games and asked a woman to pack games very carefully in a sturdy box. One of games was a factory sealed Baldur's gate - sword coast in a fragile paper box. Well. She managed to wrap it all in paper and sent this way! lol. As a result the games were destroyed. I could bare with the two ones who were more sturdy. But Sword Cooast was beat to crap and turned into a pile of smashed paper. Asked for refund but no result. I was dumb and TOO polite and left her two positives for items that arrived in ok condition. And negged her for a broken one. needles to say she retaliated with THREE negs at once for all items. Well. ENd of story.

As for private status, right now i opened it for this Lunar case. Maybe it will help...
I closed it in June. I am a very famous collector in Russian Federation. One of the biggest. Some people here enjoy staring through my feedback and stuff i buy and use this information to pour out shit on me. People tend to be very envious here. And some of those are stupid also.

BTW: I've compiled a document that must be sent by fax to Paypal Dispute Department.
Can anyone please send it from US? I am jobless now and cannot do it. And from internet all these free services offer limited capabilities. I guess it won't get through.
http://rapidshare.com/files/145746790/paypal_case_PP-545-590-743.doc.html

[evil_genius]

Look what we have here!!!

" I think you should take one step back with your
accusations. I checked your you tube sight and the link is worthless. It
doesn't go anywhere. For a fact I know the casing was in good shape,since I
mentioned to you about a slight frontal scratch. The game was sealed since
it was purchased with original wrap and price tag. This was my brother's
game before he died recently, and he wasn't into anything shady. I
inherited it and put it on E-BAY. The way it photographed was the exact way
it looked. I packed it up to yor specifications, a sturdy U.S.P.S. box with
your purchase wrapped in bubble wrap and packed in peanut styrofoam. You
claim the box was badly deformed, why did it take 22 days for it to reach
you? That's a long time, did it go through Georgia? Was it picked apart by
the time you got it. That game was straight from the vendor , to the
retailer, to the purchaser and never opened, with a price tag still
attached to it. Remember I'm not a blind man nor a novice on E-BAY. I KNOW
THE KIND OF GAMES THAT TAKE PLACE INTERNATIONALLY, THAT'S WHY, ON MY
AUCTIONS I PUT DOMESTIC ONLY. I TOOK A SHOT WITH YOU, EVEN THOUGH I HAD
OTHER BIDDERS. So don't you ever accuse me of being a thief for a lousy
$42. My feedback and customer service speaks for it's self, wheras yours is
a bit shady with 4 negatives,in last 6 mos. and a change reently in your
feedback comments to private. Why is that. Read the purchase agreement, no
insurance, no returns, no refunds. Go after the U.S.P.S. system, if you
have to. I recently had people not pay for purchaseS THAT THEY MADE, and
wrote them off and moved on. Yours motives are corrupt and unacceptable to
the morals of E-BAY. Nice try in stealing a product and trying to get money
back. I'm citing you to E-BAY for that."

Not surprised. Sounds like your typical eBay doosh.

[Hwj_Chim]

That is why I don't buy from ebay anymore

[TheRealist50]

That is why I don't buy from ebay anymore

I'm also starting to have second thoughts. more and more I see people with these sort of ebay problems. I got lucky, I got a game in horrible shape and she refunded my money and shipping cost. But there have been other times where I wasn't so lucky and got stuck with a dud or a game/item in "not-so-amazing-but-acceptable" but I didn't pay for an "acceptable" condition game, I paid for what the description said and thats a MINT game.

[carlcarlson]

I'm also starting to have second thoughts. more and more I see people with these sort of ebay problems. I got lucky, I got a game in horrible shape and she refunded my money and shipping cost. But there have been other times where I wasn't so lucky and got stuck with a dud or a game/item in "not-so-amazing-but-acceptable" but I didn't pay for an "acceptable" condition game, I paid for what the description said and thats a MINT game.

Nobody posts threads about the good sales. Personally if I did you would have about 700 threads to weed through before you found one of my negative experiences. Now more than ever it's actually much safer to be a buyer on ebay.

[Dark_Sol]

Can anyone send a fax from US?

[Bratwurst]

I could, I'm going to hook up my fax machine later today. The embedded pictures are going to come out in black and white and won't be very legible though.

[eskobar]

Man, why do you think that the bidding only reached 40 usd and one of the other bidders had zero feedback ?

I do not think that the photo was tricked ... the grey on original cases is much more strong, almost black and the photo is a light gray... and most important, he only shipped to the U.S.

You need to be more careful when you buy a sealed game, with all respect, you looked like a newbie :(

[dao2]

Man, why do you think that the bidding only reached 40 usd and one of the other bidders had zero feedback ?

I do not think that the photo was tricked ... the grey on original cases is much more strong, almost black and the photo is a light gray... and most important, he only shipped to the U.S.

You need to be more careful when you buy a sealed game, with all respect, you looked like a newbie :(

seller still seems like a giant ass ;p

[eskobar]

seller still seems like a giant ass ;p

Definitely ....


Probably the guy still does not know what the hell happened ... if you check its feedback he is not a video game seller ... so he probably was only defending himself from the attack of the guy.

He was nice to ship to Russia, though

[Cornelius]

It wouldn't have exactly been 'letter of the law', but after figuring out I'd been ripped off, I would have just filed an 'Item not received dispute'. Sure thing unless I'm very much mistaken. Hindsight and all, I guess.

[Bratwurst]

It wouldn't have exactly been 'letter of the law', but after figuring out I'd been ripped off, I would have just filed an 'Item not received dispute'. Sure thing unless I'm very much mistaken. Hindsight and all, I guess.

Too late for that unfortunately, the seller's got emails stating the buyer 'received' the item in question when the issue of its authenticity came up.

[eskobar]

It wouldn't have exactly been 'letter of the law', but after figuring out I'd been ripped off, I would have just filed an 'Item not received dispute'. Sure thing unless I'm very much mistaken. Hindsight and all, I guess.

I do not know if he was ripped off .... i do not know if he films any package he opens up, but he knew it was not a sealed Lunar 2, there are too many facts that showed it.

I know the game was not described as it should, but it's obvious that the seller has very limited knowledge on video games ... the seller states that you should bid based on the photo ... you can avoid trouble if you ask for more photos.



Dark_sol : being honest, did you knew it was fake before the game arrived ?

[gum_drops]

It wouldn't have exactly been 'letter of the law', but after figuring out I'd been ripped off, I would have just filed an 'Item not received dispute'. Sure thing unless I'm very much mistaken. Hindsight and all, I guess.

Yea, I was thinking that also. Should of checked the tracking # (if there was one) first to see if it even showed up as delivered.

Hopefully you get your payment back, the seller seems like a real piece of work.

[Dark_Sol]

Dark_sol : being honest, did you knew it was fake before the game arrived ?
I could not predict it would be a fake and that it does not even have disc inside!

The picture didn't look ok. So i was aware it COULD be a reseal. But i've seen more crappy pictures then this one. And also there's a tonns of noob sellers who make really crappy pictures or no pictures at all. I've been on ebay for 6 years.
Moreover it had a store sticker on front of the wrapping. This, i can tell you is one of the MAJOR facts for a factory sealed game nowadays. And that bought me actually.
Who could guess it's an empty, resealed store display case?? I didn't have that kind of knowledge. I've never seen anything like this.

[eskobar]

Indeed, be very careful of sellers like this; too many do not know what they are selling .. others just enjoy the scam to get a few bucks free.


If you are refunded do you return the game ?

Any other members of the forum return a product they are not satisfied with ? .. or do you keep the product ?

[Dark_Sol]

I guess there's nothing to return. Since it's a fake and there is no actual GAME. lol
But if paypal will force me return this - i will pass. Not worth the effort at all...

[eskobar]

I guess there's nothing to return. Since it's a fake and there is no actual GAME. lol
But if paypal will force me return this - i will pass. Not worth the effort at all...

well, items like that are worth something ... aren't they ?

Display items are a real market, if he is forced to refund the money at least he can get the chance to sell the item as a display copy ... the Lunar series is very popular and many people can be interested in it .. or to complete a disc only copy of the game.

[megasdkirby]

Dark_Sol, there is a problem.

I did not think of this until now, but I took the image the seller had in his auction and used the brightness feature to clarify as much as possible. This is the result:

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1623/lunarohcrapoy6.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lunarohcrapoy6.jpg)

It's the same game. Notice the missing black plastic that holds the game in place. Although the picture is much darker, it depends on Paypal whether or not to think of it as photoshopped or bad photographer.

You may potentially loose this case... I'm sorry. :(

[eskobar]

Dark_Sol, there is a problem.

I did not think of this until now, but I took the image the seller had in his auction and used the brightness feature to clarify as much as possible. This is the result:

You may potentially loose this case... I'm sorry. :(


As some of us have said before : This is no scam auction, it is just a seller that has a very limited knowledge of videogames.

If you are fooled by that photo you need to be very naive ... and again : the usual buyers of this items did not miss the auction, we inmediately notice that detail and i tell you that because i was watching the item ..


I know that you can feel ripped off but you need to be very objective to judge special cases like this. If someone says you need to check the picture and the picture is dog shit, you cannot expect to receive gold or cow shit ...

You cannot ask somebody to learn about videogame collecting in one night ... i think the seller tried his best and do not forget that he was nice enough to SHIP TO RUSSIA even if he clearly wrote : SHIP TO U.S. ONLY.

Come on, the seller had no idea what he was selling but he wasn't scamming.

[megasdkirby]

I agree with Escobar. With the pic clarified, I can see that the seller had no intention to con you. It proves that he knows squat about games, but still, he listed it according to the best of his knowledge. If the seller knowingly did hide something (like what happened to me with Buster Douglas) then I would understand. But this seller clearly listed everything.

You could win the claim if Paypal sees that the game was not inf act there, but I doubt they will use your YouTube videos as proof.

I wish you the best, though.

[carlcarlson]

But if paypal will force me return this - i will pass. Not worth the effort at all...

I think you're out of luck then. Paypal rarely refunds money unless they have proof that the item was returned, or at least mailed. The only times I've ever gotten refunds without returning is if the seller authorized it or they never responded.

[megasdkirby]

I think you're out of luck then. Paypal rarely refunds money unless they have proof that the item was returned, or at least mailed. The only times I've ever gotten refunds without returning is if the seller authorized it or they never responded.

Yup, and it has to have some sort of tracking number, like Delivery Confirmation in the US. It must show that the seller received the item.

But the thing is, that is iffy as well. I remember seeing a case in which the bidder sent back the "item" to the seller and put a Delivery Confirmation code on it. When the seller received the package, the buyer immediately contacted Paypal for the refund. Paypal refunded the buyer.

So what was wrong? The buyer sent an empty box to the seller...and Paypal STILL gave back back the buyers money.

And in another case, the buyer returned the item to the seller and when it was time to get his money back, Paypal said that he "won" the case but that they were unable to refund his money back because the seller had no funds in his account. That was unfair and the buyer lost the item AND his money.

So I see Dark_Sol's point...it's not worth the hassle. It's a big risk...

[Dark_Sol]

Not worth the effort first of all because shipping the empty case back will cost me more then the whole auction cost. Russian rates are insane. And moreover by the time the case arrive back in USA i'll miss the deadline for a refund (60 days). So it's not worth completely.
By the way. Fellow DP member managed to bomb paypal with my fax documenst. They got like.... NINE copies :) Also i've attached 4 images today with explanation of a rip-off. I hope paypal has common sense.
What is more funny today i got response from my second ebay report:

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to item number 370076613104 (SEGA
CD LUNAR II VIDEO GAME) in which you received a fake item.

I understand that this has been frustrating, and I'd like to help you
resolve this issue as quickly as possible.

We take your complaint very seriously. We'll investigate this seller and
take appropriate action. Violations of eBay policy may result in a range
of actions, including listing cancellation, limits on account
privileges, account suspension, loss of eBay fees on canceled listings,
and loss of PowerSeller status.

Due to privacy concerns, we can't discuss one member's account with
another member, so we won't be able to share the results of our
investigation with you. I realize that this can be frustrating, but I
hope it assures you that your account information will also remain
confidential.

Disagreements like this one can usually be resolved with direct
communication between the buyer and seller. I encourage you to file an
Item Not Received or Significantly Not as Described dispute. The dispute
process is designed to make communication between you and the seller
easier.

-- Note --
You can file a dispute between 10 and 60 days after the transaction
date.

For more information about the Item Not Received or Significantly Not as
Described process, go to:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/inr-snad-process.html

I'm glad to hear you opened a dispute with PayPal. Because you paid with
PayPal, your purchase is covered up to $200, and may be covered up to
$2,000. To see the coverage for your item, check the "Buy safely"
section on the item page.

Since you've filed your claim, the best way to resolve the issue is to
follow through with your PayPal dispute. To check on the status of your
dispute:

1. Log in to your PayPal account.
2. Hover over "Resolution Center" at the top of the page.
3. Click the "View Open Cases" link.
4. Select the case you want to review.

If you need help from PayPal Customer Support, please go to:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_contact_us

If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.

Sincerely,
Lynn T.

eBay Customer Support

[megasdkirby]

That's the thing, Dark_Sol....the item wasn't a fake. Did you see the picture I posted?


Dark_Sol, there is a problem.

I did not think of this until now, but I took the image the seller had in his auction and used the brightness feature to clarify as much as possible. This is the result:

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1623/lunarohcrapoy6.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lunarohcrapoy6.jpg)

It's the same game. Notice the missing black plastic that holds the game in place. Although the picture is much darker, it depends on Paypal whether or not to think of it as photoshopped or bad photographer.

You may potentially loose this case... I'm sorry. :(

[Dark_Sol]

That's the thing, Dark_Sol....the item wasn't a fake. Did you see the picture I posted?
Yes. And why did he use a gray background? why? I can tell you why. First option - just a coincidence. Second - intentionally fool people that they buy a real game.
And empty case with no game disc inside is indeed a "fake" for me.
Look at his description: "THIS CD IS STILL FACTORY SEALED". CD is sealed? no! An empty case is sealed! :)

[megasdkirby]

Yes. And why did he use a gray background? why? I can tell you why. First option - just a coincidence. Second - intentionally fool people that they buy a real game.
And empty case with no game disc inside is indeed a "fake" for me.
Look at his description: "THIS CD IS STILL FACTORY SEALED". CD is sealed? no! An empty case is sealed! :)

Unfortunately, since he did he use a picture of the real game, it will be hard to prove to Paypal whether it was:

-Bad photography skills on the sellers half, or
-He intentionally was trying to con you

It could go either way. And since the game was sealed, and giving the benefit of the doubt to the seller for not knowing squat about video games, then it was a mistake on his half. On that front you could also win. But Paypal can take this as a "mistake" instead of a fake.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Usually the buyer wins, but they may side with the seller on this one.

I wish you luck, though.

[Dark_Sol]

Yearh i agree with you completely. It's a 50/50 situation. I've crossed fingers already.
No matter if seller knew what he was selling or didn't know at all - he sold an empty case with a 49.99$ sticker on front.. Well. That's his fault in the end. He is amazed. But i lost money for nothing. I don't need a lunar manual for 62$ shipped.

[8bitnesfan]

Yea, I was thinking that also. Should of checked the tracking # (if there was one) first to see if it even showed up as delivered.

Hopefully you get your payment back, the seller seems like a real piece of work.

Great now we are showing all the other scammers out there how to screw ebay members lets all check the tracking numbers and if it does not show up as "delivered" file a paypal claim
COME ON!

[ryborg]

Great now we are showing all the other scammers out there how to screw ebay members lets all check the tracking numbers and if it does not show up as "delivered" file a paypal claim
COME ON!

If they're already scammers, wouldn't they already know about this?

[megasdkirby]

Great now we are showing all the other scammers out there how to screw ebay members lets all check the tracking numbers and if it does not show up as "delivered" file a paypal claim
COME ON!

Not always is that a scam.

If the tracking number says that the was not delivered, how is that a scam? Specially when you get this message:

"Your item was processed and left our (YOUR CITY) facility on (DATE)..."

Many sellers think that when that message appears, they are "in the clear". Not quite so. The message simply means that the item in question arrived at the corresponding post office of your area and will be, or should I say, should be delivered in the next day or so, most of the times, the same day. Thankfully it says the date and it should be compared to the current date. For example, if the message says Nov. 2 but the current date is Nov. 10, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. This could be because:

-The item was delivered but the mailman forgot to scan it, or
-The item has yet to be delivered and is probably somewhere with the carrier, probably misplaced.

The only way it can be a scam is if the buyer DID receive the item, the mailman forgot to scan it, and then the buyer says he/she "never got it". Otherwise, it's a legit complaint. This has happened to me several times...I've gotten items and when I check the status it says the same message. I simply contact the seller stating I got my item and move on. Others aren't so honest.

Now here is where Paypal/Ebay should be more "intelligent". If the buyer claims they never received the item and eh tracking number displays that message, any competent Paypal employee should simply see the date when it was "processed" and compare it with the current date. In the example given above, if the message says Nov. 1 but the current date is Nov. 2, they have to give it more time instead of favoring the buyer. Alas, most Paypal employees aren't so bright...

Unfortunately, the seller is at the mercy of the Postal System. If the mail man forgets to scan and update the delivery status, they are at the mercy of mean buyers. :(

[Kitsune Sniper]

Yes. And why did he use a gray background? why? I can tell you why. First option - just a coincidence. Second - intentionally fool people that they buy a real game.
And empty case with no game disc inside is indeed a "fake" for me.
Look at his description: "THIS CD IS STILL FACTORY SEALED". CD is sealed? no! An empty case is sealed! :)

That actually looks like a scanned front cover.

Get a scanner, place your game on top of it without closing the lid, then scan it. You'll get a gray background.

[Dark_Sol]

That actually looks like a scanned front cover.

Get a scanner, place your game on top of it without closing the lid, then scan it. You'll get a gray background.
Wow. Nice idea. I will do a scan and we'll check.

[tmlfan]

That actually looks like a scanned front cover.

Get a scanner, place your game on top of it without closing the lid, then scan it. You'll get a gray background.

That sounds about right...

after reading all this, I have to agree with an earlier post. I dont think the seller had any intentions of scamming or falsely representing anything, just a lack of knowledge and being accused of being a thief made him out to be the bad person. From the sellers point of view I would feel like I was being scammed all the same. Someone bought a sealed game from me (or what I honestly felt was a sealed game). Then the buyer emails me saying I ripped him off. Even goes so far as to video his opening of the game. Maybe he does this all the time, has a re-sealing machine. Opens the goods, takes out the disc, then re-sealed it..then video tapes the re-opening. GASP!! no game.

anyways.. just a bad situation altogether

[megasdkirby]

That sounds about right...

after reading all this, I have to agree with an earlier post. I dont think the seller had any intentions of scamming or falsely representing anything, just a lack of knowledge and being accused of being a thief made him out to be the bad person. From the sellers point of view I would feel like I was being scammed all the same. Someone bought a sealed game from me (or what I honestly felt was a sealed game). Then the buyer emails me saying I ripped him off. Even goes so far as to video his opening of the game. Maybe he does this all the time, has a re-sealing machine. Opens the goods, takes out the disc, then re-sealed it..then video tapes the re-opening. GASP!! no game.

anyways.. just a bad situation altogether

True, but problem is, the picture shown on the auction and the one Dark_Sol posted when he got the game is exactly the same, or one heck of a replica!

And even though the video is very dark, it still shows what looks like the same plastic wrapping characteristics.

It's going to be an interesting battle, that's for sure.

[Dark_Sol]

You have a point. Fortunately the game i opened even had same holes and same sticker on front. :)
I believe seller really didn't know what he was selling. But he is still guilty. And even more guilty for trying to threat me to leave positive and to close paypal dispute before refund. That's a very inadequate behavior which really amazed me. He wasn't even trying to correct his own fault.. huh...He called me immature for not leaving positive first and also mentioned some interesting facts about "Georgia" and "boy from Brooklyn"... huh.. Only a retard and idiot can say such things.

[Dark_Sol]

BTW: Two more friends of mine sent faxes to paypal today. One has arrived.
They have 13 pages in total. and 4 images.
damn i already find this battle stupid....

[megasdkirby]

I believe seller really didn't know what he was selling. But he is still guilty. And even more guilty for trying to threat me to leave positive and to close paypal dispute before refund. That's a very inadequate behavior which really amazed me. He wasn't even trying to correct his own fault.. huh...He called me immature for not leaving positive first and also mentioned some interesting facts about "Georgia" and "boy from Brooklyn"... huh.. Only a retard and idiot can say such things.

You are correct.

The seller is still responsible for what he lists. This is accuracy. By leaving feedback first, this tells Paypal that you are happy and they would have surely denied your claim. He was trying to be clever.

He is immature for the way he acted. And his comments about "Georgia" and other statements just show his pride for that certain group of people. Bah, I hate it when they do that, as though he thinks he is better than you.

And be prepared for when you leave a negative. He will insult you like there is no tomorrow. And if he does, then it proves he sucks and is a lousy seller. No professional seller would stoop so low.